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Gior

Jtr Speakers - Official Thread

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Thanks for the review Gior. They certainly sound like User reviews have stated. Once you have the DHC-80.1 and GIK treatments that will be the real litmus test. They'll also need a good 50-100 hours on them to sound their bes. Certainly much larger than I had anticipated.

Well done indeed and thanks for posting the pictures.

Cheers

Blade

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I'd like to know too as the 3.5 metres doesn't quite have the focus I'd expect from proper time alignment. Never been to the VAF showroom but would like to visit next time I'm in Adelaide :)

Guess I could always give Simon or Philip a call and ask one of them. I just never got round to it as I really can't change the listening position-speaker distance relationship enough in my room to make too much of a difference - have fiddled for ages with it already.

Fellas,

I'm not really certain about the applicability of Dunleavys time/distance fromulas to current generation VAF models, I was sort of asking the question myself. I'll see what i can dig up regarding this as it would be interesting to know. I might hit up Marty from Sonique for a general answer and see what he has to say.

Report back soon.

Drew

EDIT: Just checking out the Duntech website (Yes i know Dunleavy is no longer involved!!) and i found this stuff on their 'technology'

http://www.duntech.com.au/english/about-us/technology.html

http://www.duntech.com.au/images/about-us/technology/1.gif

Again I'm not sure how applicable this is to VAFs (or soniques) designs, but i imagine that by nature of the process they must have based the calculations on a specific listening distance in order to allow for the varying wavelengths etc. The question is what is that distance........

Sorry for the completely off topic track Gior, genuinelly glad that you like your speakers. Takes someone with the balls to take a punt sometimes to find great products that aren't locally available!!

Edited by Drew.......

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Fellas,

I'm not really certain about the applicability of Dunleavys time/distance fromulas to current generation VAF models, I was sort of asking the question myself. I'll see what i can dig up regarding this as it would be interesting to know. I might hit up Marty from Sonique for a general answer and see what he has to say.

Report back soon.

Drew

EDIT: Just checking out the Duntech website (Yes i know Dunleavy is no longer involved!!) and i found this stuff on their 'technology'

http://www.duntech.com.au/english/about-us/technology.html

http://www.duntech.com.au/images/about-us/technology/1.gif

Again I'm not sure how applicable this is to VAFs (or soniques) designs, but i imagine that by nature of the process they must have based the calculations on a specific listening distance in order to allow for the varying wavelengths etc. The question is what is that distance........

Sorry for the completely off topic track Gior, genuinelly glad that you like your speakers. Takes someone with the balls to take a punt sometimes to find great products that aren't locally available!!

Doesn't take balls :) Just figured out there couldn't be too much harm from getting the JTRs especially for front height channel duties. I was quite surprised about the imaging though...I haven't actually listened to my VAFs in a non equalised stereo mode for quite some time.

And I really have no qualms with threads going off topic (as can be noted in my multitude of off topic posts lol). All sort of the same conversation (AV reproduction) as far as I'm concerned :)

You're right about the JTR's being great products. If it wasn't for Audyssey Pro making my old soundstage pretty incredible, I'd seriously now probably have my VAF's up for sale lol. I still might later if Audyssey works even more magic with the JTR's than it does with the VAFs lol.

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Hi Mate,

Have you taken any more measurements ?

Just curious to see if the low end readings from your previous graphs were an anomaly or not.

Ok now for a more in depth report

Speakers were driven by an Earthquake Cinenova 7 Channel Power Amp with a Denon AVR-2310 as the preamp. The Denon AVR-2310 was used in Direct Mode for all the measuring and most of the listening. Source was an Oppo BDP-83 outputting HDMI to the AVR. The amp had a Pure Direct mode as well which I did subjectively prefer, but ended up using the Direct Mode as I wanted the display up on the amp. Comparison speakers were VAF I-93's driven by the same combo. Level matching was done with test tones and a calibrated Jaycar digital SPL meter - the VAF's needed 8.5db's more on the volume control than the JTR Quintuples which is in the ballpark given their rated sensitivities.

First up, this was supposed to be a pretty unfair comparison given that the VAF's are SIGNIFICANTLY pricier speakers, however, as I've harped on many a time, the room tends to be a BIG equaliser :)

Subjective opinions now - the JTR's were a fairly 'warm' speaker compared to the VAF's (no I didn't go and measure the temperature ;) ) - I don't know why Jeff has made a more 'laid back' version of his crossover for some of his customers - his customers have obviously never heard my VAF's screaming. Ok by warm, I mean, there was a lot of midbass/midrange (this actually turned out to be a LOT more once I fired up the measurements lol). Imaging was excellent with the JTR's, I would have to say SIGNIFICANTLY better than the VAFs with their placements (I placed the JTR's just inside both VAFs). The 'sweetspot' was quite a bit wider than what the VAFs had. Probably has something to do with the coaxial mid/tweeter arrangement the JTRs run vs the vertically symmetrical time aligned array of the VAFs. I'm not sure my room is the right shape for the VAFs to really show their true colours. I didn't however go and use the same placement positions or switch placement positions as I wasn't really bothering to do an indepth test, I just wanted to see if the speaker was FUN which it most definitely was. I played a heap of material at all different volume levels. I believe now that my ears will give out way before I hit the limits of the JTR's driven by the Cinenova. I really can't wait to set them up with the DHC 80.1 and run them as front height channels in a DSX 9.2 setup. I'm afraid once I do that, I'm probably not going to bother with anymore critical testing of them vs the VAF I-93's (which really, they shouldn't be compared to as it is a totally different speaker design).

Ok, now for some measurements

JTR Quintuples Raw response with REW

JTR Quintuple 1/3rd Octave Smoothed with REW

Damn big hump between about 60hz and 300hz and a smaller one between 1khz-2.5khz - no wonder I thought it sounded fairly warm. Well I guess no one can say that this speaker can't put out midbass lol :)

Anyway, for what its worth, I think the inroom measured native response is excellent. A little bit of EQ would work wonders with this speaker I think.

I actually did take some REW measurements tonight of the VAFs as well, but I forgot to save them. I have some old ones taken with Fuzzmeasure of a single VAF that sort of gives an idea of its response - ignore the higher frequencies above the 10k mark as the roll off in measurement is probably a microphone directivity thing

VAF I-93 1/3rd Octave Smoothed with Fuzzmeasure - No EQ

VAF I-93 - Raw response with Fuzzmeasure - No EQ

Conclusions - these JTR speakers I think are a great buy and were extremely enjoyable with music. I can't really comment on their HT performance yet as I really don't have any experience of that but would guess that they would be excellent. They live up to their claims of being dynamic and efficient whilst remaining extremely well controlled. I tried to upset the speakers by cranking the volume, but I had to stop as my ears couldn't handle it :)

Now I'm trying to get some piccies up too.

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Hi Mate,

Have you taken any more measurements ?

Just curious to see if the low end readings from your previous graphs were an anomaly or not.

I took a whole heap of them with REW. My laptop is out with a friend so I didn't have a Mac nearby that I could use Fuzzmeasure on. However, I have faith that those measurements are accurate as that is pretty much what I heard too.

The main system is currently disconnected as I NEED the Denon 2310 upstairs. I really can't live without a good HT present in the house lol.

It should be pretty easy to EQ the bass hump out of the system I think as its always easier EQing down than up :) I think Jeff probably did give a bit of a boost, but my room did the rest as the half bay windows DO kind of focus all the sound inward.

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I took a whole heap of them with REW. My laptop is out with a friend so I didn't have a Mac nearby that I could use Fuzzmeasure on. However, I have faith that those measurements are accurate as that is pretty much what I heard too.

The main system is currently disconnected as I NEED the Denon 2310 upstairs. I really can't live without a good HT present in the house lol.

It should be pretty easy to EQ the bass hump out of the system I think as its always easier EQing down than up :) I think Jeff probably did give a bit of a boost, but my room did the rest as the half bay windows DO kind of focus all the sound inward.

JTR speakers are voiced flat in free air so all that additional midbass is from the room.

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JTR speakers are voiced flat in free air so all that additional midbass is from the room.

Thanks Jeff.

Gior, would you mind taking some extreme nearfield measurements (put the mic say 15cms away from the driver your trying to measure. You might have to take a few measurements - one for each driver to get an accurate reading)to effectively remove the room (well sorta, it will give a better indication of what the speakers are doing by themselves).

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Thanks Jeff.

Gior, would you mind taking some extreme nearfield measurements (put the mic say 15cms away from the driver your trying to measure. You might have to take a few measurements - one for each driver to get an accurate reading)to effectively remove the room (well sorta, it will give a better indication of what the speakers are doing by themselves).

Will do so once I get a preamp and my laptop back :) Would prefer to use Fuzzmeasure for it (I DID pay for Fuzzmeasure after all lol).

In the meantime anyone REALLY curious in Sydney (well in Australia if you want to fly into Sydney) with a spare preamp (or even just preouts) and a bit of time is welcome to swing round for some listening/testing in the meantime (provided you aren't a psychopath - but then again, with the MONOLITH I've come up with, you guys are probably wondering the same thing).

Actually, I might give Gregory from Clink a call. I know him well and he's been meaning to come down forever for the VAFs. I'll tell him that I've got something that'll be more interesting. I'm sure he has a spare preamp or two.

Edited by Gior

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JTR speakers are voiced flat in free air so all that additional midbass is from the room.

Just noticed, you are up to 5 posts - you can get Aussie pm's now :)

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Thanks Jeff.

Gior, would you mind taking some extreme nearfield measurements (put the mic say 15cms away from the driver your trying to measure. You might have to take a few measurements - one for each driver to get an accurate reading)to effectively remove the room (well sorta, it will give a better indication of what the speakers are doing by themselves).

If you also measured your speakers the same way Drizt, then we could compare the two :winky:

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If you also measured your speakers the same way Drizt, then we could compare the two :winky:

We could indeed. We could compare your too. That would be cool.

Heres mine... Taken with Behringer mic and preamp (which have since died - RIP)

1/3 smoothed

No smoothing

BLUE:

Mic approx. 15cm from right speaker (Only)

Mic pointed directly between tweeter and mid

-24.0 Integra Volume

REW input volume .250

REW sweep level -12dB

MIC PRE main mix (1 past centre)

GREEN:

Mic approx. 15cm from right speaker (Only)

Mic pointed directly at bass driver

-24.0 Integra Volume

REW input volume .250

REW sweep level -12dB

MIC PRE main mix (1 past centre)

Edited by Drizt

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We could indeed. We could compare your too. That would be cool.

I don't bother measuring anything above the crossover of the subs. The Audyssey reports I take with a grain of salt; basically I use my ears as the benchmark. So far this hasn't let me down. :)

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I don't bother measuring anything above the crossover of the subs. The Audyssey reports I take with a grain of salt; basically I use my ears as the benchmark. So far this hasn't let me down. :)

Id still like to see it mate if its not too much trouble.

If you don't want to see the full range close mic (say 15cm's away from driver) results, could you take some for just your bass response of the mains ?

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Id still like to see it mate if its not too much trouble.

If you don't want to see the full range close mic (say 15cm's away from driver) results, could you take some for just your bass response of the mains ?

The issue for me Drizt is, when people are requesting this sort of detail it makes my haemorrhoids twitch. :)

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The issue for me Drizt is, when people are requesting this sort of detail it makes my haemorrhoids twitch. :)

I hear there is a cream for that. Sounds nasty mate.

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I'm pretty excited about now! I'm just about to transfer funds to Jeff for 3 x Triple 12HT's :D I was really considering some of Mark Seaton "catalysts" but the budget just would not stretch that far. No point having a cinema room with no projector ;)

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I'm pretty excited about now! I'm just about to transfer funds to Jeff for 3 x Triple 12HT's :D I was really considering some of Mark Seaton "catalysts" but the budget just would not stretch that far. No point having a cinema room with no projector ;)

Awesome news. I hope you love them. Looking forward to reading your reports about them. Any ETA?

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I'm pretty excited about now! I'm just about to transfer funds to Jeff for 3 x Triple 12HT's :D I was really considering some of Mark Seaton "catalysts" but the budget just would not stretch that far. No point having a cinema room with no projector ;)

Oh man...why couldn't you be a Sydneysider??? I'd love to have a listen to the Triple 12HT's. I was gonna get them but the Quintuples just fit better in my room...

I might have to make a trip down to Melbourne one day and visit a few forum member's houses for equipment demo's - Blade and yourself are on the hitlist lol

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Oh man...why couldn't you be a Sydneysider??? I'd love to have a listen to the Triple 12HT's. I was gonna get them but the Quintuples just fit better in my room...

I might have to make a trip down to Melbourne one day and visit a few forum member's houses for equipment demo's - Blade and yourself are on the hitlist lol

You are more than welcome to pop in for a listen. I just hope the Emotiva XPA-5 has enough juice to do the Trip 12's justice.

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You are more than welcome to pop in for a listen. I just hope the Emotiva XPA-5 has enough juice to do the Trip 12's justice.

The XPA-5 is a beastly amp :) Your ears will most likely bleed before you run out of puff with that on the trip 12's as they are so damn efficient. I doubt you are ever gonna see the clip light come on with the XPA-5 unless your EQ is doing some crazy boosts on the trip 12's :)

Reference level here you come (and then leave well behind lol)

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