laurie

Owners Thread Sony Bravia "r" Series (sxrd) 60"-70" 1080p

4,075 posts in this topic

Screen geometry

The first few seconds of viewing was of the tennis, and MLXXX's eagle eye immediately saw that the tennis court lines on the left hand side had a slight curve. :blink: However over subsequent hours of general video viewing, this was not noticeable.

Measurement revealed relatively minor discrepancies.

In the diagram below, the outer rectangle represents the 1920x1080 picture with no overscan. Points A to E make up an inside rectangle (the brown dots), and are the outermost points of what can actually be seen on the screen. (There is significant overscan, as is the conventional practice with all televisions.)

|...............................................................................

.........|

|..A......................................B........................................

C..|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|..D................................................................................E..|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|..F.........................................G.....................................

H..|

|...............................................................................

.........|

I'm a little unsure of the pixel measurements horizontally but as best I could establish, the figures are as follows:

A is 33 pixels down, and 50 pixels in from the left.

B is 29 pixels down.

C is 33 pixels down and 50 pixels in from the right.

D is 49 pixels in from the left.

E is 47 pixels in from the right.

F is 25 pixels up from the bottom, and 52 pixels to the right.

G is 30 pixels up from the bottom.

H is 30 pixels up from the bottom, and 49 pixels in from the right.

So of a 1920x 1080 picture about 1820 x 1020 pixels can be seen, representing an overscan factor of around 5%. Here is how my test pattern looked:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?act=Att...ost&id=2359

The digital camera used contributed its own geometrical artefacts.

It will be noted the 'horizontal shift' on the SXRD is set at 1, which seemed equivalent to about 6 pixels. Before that adjustment, the whole picture was a little left of centre.

With a bit more time on my side, I have had a second attempt to improve the pincushion error. Whilst I have not been able to eliminate it I have been able to facilitate a further slight improvement and I have also corrected the minor rotational error with my unit.

Geometric errors are now as follows,

From A through B to C on your diagram I have a 5 pixel sag from A to B before rising 5 pixels from B to C. This compares with a 4 pixel sag on your unit.

From A to D I gain an extra 2 pixels. This compares with 1 pixel on your unit.

From D to F I loose 5 pixels. This compares with 3 pixels on your unit.

From F to H through G I have a 3 pixel sag from F to G before rising 3 pixels from G to H. This compares to a 5 pixel sag from F to G with no change from G to H on your unit.

From C to E I gain an extra 2 pixels. This compares with 3 pixels on your unit.

From E to H I loose 6 pixels. This compares with 5 pixels on your unit.

With the light engine positioned as far back as I can move it from the trapezoid adjustment, I am still 3 pixels short of being able to eliminate it on both sides of the screen (6 pixels in total). I have however been able to correct the minor rotational error.

Despite my adjustments, the geometry on your 60" unit is superior to my 70" unit on most of the above measurements and it would be interesting to know if a slightly larger geometric error is typical of 70" units when compared to 60" units. As it it I have at least been able to facilitate some improvement.

As I have stated in the past, I find that the geometric error in my unit does not impact on video viewing in any way and is only noticable when using the SXRD as a PC monitor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
***SNIP***

I think OZHTfan is on hols.....I know his was calibrated, though from what I remember it seems to have been done without the service manual.

I am getting a Tosh HD-E1, can't wait to see the HD-DVDs on this set.

Pietro, you don't need the service manual to calibrate the set and as for fan noise.......what fan noise.....mine's so quiet my wife :blink: can't hear it........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Screen geometry

The first few seconds of viewing was of the tennis, and MLXXX's eagle eye immediately saw that the tennis court lines on the left hand side had a slight curve. :blink: However over subsequent hours of general video viewing, this was not noticeable.

Measurement revealed relatively minor discrepancies.

In the diagram below, the outer rectangle represents the 1920x1080 picture with no overscan. Points A to E make up an inside rectangle (the brown dots), and are the outermost points of what can actually be seen on the screen. (There is significant overscan, as is the conventional practice with all televisions.)

|...............................................................................

.........|

|..A......................................B........................................

C..|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|..D................................................................................E..|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|...................................................................................

.....|

|..F.........................................G.....................................

H..|

|...............................................................................

.........|

I have remeasured the geometry, using a PC generated convergence pattern as a guide, and with the help of the screen position controls in the Setup Menu [below 'lamp replacement' ].

My revised and simplified figures (to the nearest pixel) are:

Vertical variations:

A as reference

B 3 pixels downwards

C 2 pixels upwards relative to B (or 1 pixel down relative to A)

F as reference

G 4 pixels upwards

H same as G

Horizontal variations:

A as reference

D 1 pixel to the right

F 3 pixels to the left relative to D (or 2 pixels to the left relative to A)

C as a reference

E 2 pixels to the left

H 2 pixels to the right relative to E (or the same horizontal position as C)

Or as an exaggerated diagram.

Even when a convergence pattern is displayed, as here, the differences do not jump out of the screen. I don't know whether I will bother to try to improve the geometry as Dr Smith has with his set

(congrats Doctor!); mine might aleady be close to its optimum adjustment. In any event, I think I'll wait till my issue with convergence of horizontal red lines is resolved.

By the way, it may be noted from the picture just above that the Centre speaker is now positioned higher up, close to the bottom of the screen*. This is giving a much clearer sound than when the speaker was near the floor.

*More detail in the Home Theatre sub-forum here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have remeasured the geometry, using a PC generated convergence pattern as a guide, and with the help of the screen position controls in the Setup Menu [below 'lamp replacement' ].

My revised and simplified figures (to the nearest pixel) are:

Vertical variations:

A as reference

B 3(5) pixels downwards

C 2(5) pixels upwards relative to B (or 1(0) pixel down relative to A)

F as reference

G 4 pixels upwards (3 pixels downwards)

H same as G (3 pixels upwards (same as F))

Horizontal variations:

A as reference

D 1(2) pixel to the right

F 3(5) pixels to the left relative to D (or 2(3) pixels to the left relative to A)

C as a reference

E 2(2) pixels to the left

H 2(6) pixels to the right relative to E (or the same horizontal position as C(4 pixels to the right of C)

Or as an exaggerated diagram.

Even when a convergence pattern is displayed, as here, the differences do not jump out of the screen. I don't know whether I will bother to try to improve the geometry as Dr Smith has with his set

(congrats Doctor!); mine might aleady be close to its optimum adjustment. In any event, I think I'll wait till my issue with convergence of horizontal red lines is resolved.

By the way, it may be noted from the picture just above that the Centre speaker is now positioned higher up, close to the bottom of the screen. This is giving a much clearer sound than when the speaker was near the floor.

I have added my geometry figures in red to yours quoted above.

Looking at your figures, I would say that your display is very close to optimum adjustment.

The other interesting difference is that your display is slightly concave on all four sides whereas mine is slightly concave on 3 sides and slightly convex across the bottom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Dr Smith, you have been good enough to put your figures in for comparison.

So I have prepared an exaggerated diagram for your 70" SXRD.

As you have indicated, these variations go unnoticed with video material.

Even when using the SXRD as a PC monitor, they are of little consequence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The geometry on my display varies by about 2-5 pixels on the sides and you're right - even for PC use, it's inconsequential. It's mainly because of the natural perspective distortion you get from sitting in front of a big screen like this anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have removed the speakers from my 70" and replaced them with the alternative side panels that were packaged with the unit.

I find the reduced width of the unit without the speakers to be an improvement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I notice this posting by Owen in another topic.

....

My other display is a 57” 1080 unit viewed from 2.8 meters. Austar looks poor on this display as one would expect, but then again most digital free to air and DVD does not look that good either, even with the help of FFDShow video processing and high quality scaling on the PC.

On the big screen all SD source looks bloody sad compared to good 1080 content, and even 720p content is ordinary in comparison to 1080 when viewed on a 57” 1080 display at 2.8 meters.

Top quality 1080 source is so much better then any SD on a big screen it’s simply insane, and the big screen is dramatically more impressive and immersive then the little 86cm.

HD on the little 86cm at 2 meters is better then SD but not by that much, and frankly I could easily live without it. If the viewing distance was much greater, resolution would be a none issue as far as I am concerned.

On a big screen viewed up close, screen and video resolution is vital, and the big screen viewing experience is dramatically different and superior to a small screen.

After two years with a 57”, I’m ready to go up to a 70” 1080 display, still to be viewed from the same 2.8 meters.

Foxtel /Austar quality is not good on large screens but the content is so much better then free to air I can easily live with it.

If I want HD content, I can find more worthwhile 1080 HD on line in one day then is available on free to air TV in a year.

We do not have Cable TV but what he says with his 57" display is what we are seeing with our 70" sxrd, maybe little worse because of bigger screen ?. Television telecast quality on this TV we are very dissapointed with. We watch most of time Standard Definition TV, only little High Definition on telecast. Some DVD look good but most look not so good. Blu-ray is best but we do not have much discs.

Maybe we should get cable TV ? is that High Definition Telecast ?. I would like to find 1080 HD on line but do not know where.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Big screens need higher quality video to look good, that’s a fact of life. However the size of the image makes for a more enjoyable viewing experience IMHO, even though the defects in the source are more noticeable.

Check you mail mate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok ive run into a bit of a dilema , as you can see from the bottom of my post i have the Yamaha RX-V2700 and just installed the Sony 60 in SXRD .

The 2700 can upscale all video and pass it through to the hdmi cable and onto the screen . I have my xbox 360 connected up via component and have the conversion to HDMI turned on but have it set to pass through the resolution to the hdmi port without upscaling . If i try and set any resolution on the 360 except for 1080p it sends the signal through without a problem and the corresponding signal quickly shows up on the top left of the screen Eg: 1080i etc . But if i try and set it to 1080p it just goes black and reverts to the screen saver of the Yamaha .

If i check the information setting in the Yammy's menu it says the signal is 1080p but only shows 576i at the hdmi port ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jeez, I'm finding that in a room where I can hear a pin drop, I can't hear the sound of the SXRD fan. The only time I can hear it is if I poke my head around the back of the TV. Maybe for once in my life I got a good sample because I'm not having any of the issues that others are posting about.

I agree! Our HT room (I can't really call it a loungeroom, as it contains the system, its associated furniture, a rug, a coffee table, a beanbag and a lounge suite!) has a very low noise floor and the fan is only just noticeable, a dull hum. I only really notice the fan noise once the set is turned off (in cool-down) and there is no other noise in the room.

Cheers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If i try and set any resolution on the 360 except for 1080p it sends the signal through without a problem and the corresponding signal quickly shows up on the top left of the screen Eg: 1080i etc . But if i try and set it to 1080p it just goes black and reverts to the screen saver of the Yamaha .

If i check the information setting in the Yammy's menu it says the signal is 1080p but only shows 576i at the hdmi port ?

The SXRD will not do 1080p over component.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The SXRD will not do 1080p over component.

Yeah i know that the Sony wont accept 1080p over component , i wasnt trying to send via that . The yamaha amp will upconvert any input signal and convert it it to output via hdmi at the back of the reciever . It seems as though the highest possible resolution the yamaha will accept to pass through to hdmi is 1080i .

After a thorough read of the manual it seems i was right about the 1080i being the highest signal .

:blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How well does the Yamaha do when upcoverting low quality signals? My Yamaha does conversion of composite and s-video to component but it makes an absolute mess of the picture. I can't imagine anyone using it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I received my Tosh HDE1 yesterday and watched the only HD I have for it so far..Apollo 13...some spectacular vision on the SXRD. Amazing detail in parts. Also the upscaled SD DVDs were very impressive, looking particularly film-like I thought. Proves once again that SD can look fantastic on the Sony.

It was interesting to go back to some FTA HD that I thought was excellent but it was shown to be wanting in comparison with the HD-DVD.

I have 7 HD-DVDs on order from Amazon, can't wait to see the SXRD show them in all their glory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spent a few hours last night watching the cricket on the SXRD from two different sources, the Sony high definition STB and via a digital tuner on the PC ([email protected] from PC to the SXRD). Both were connected via HDMI.

With the same settings on both the HDMI inputs, I found the picture quality from both sources to be similar.

I'm curious as to the experience of others regarding the difference in picture quality on the SXRD between an from a PC tuner (with the PC doing the deinterlacing and upscaling) and from a STB.

Even though it was a standard definition source, I found watching the cricket on the SXRD a very pleasurable experience indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I spent a few hours last night watching the cricket on the SXRD from two different sources, the Sony high definition STB and via a digital tuner on the PC ([email protected] from PC to the SXRD). Both were connected via HDMI.

With the same settings on both the HDMI inputs, I found the picture quality from both sources to be similar.

I'm curious as to the experience of others regarding the difference in picture quality on the SXRD between an from a PC tuner (with the PC doing the deinterlacing and upscaling) and from a STB.

Even though it was a standard definition source, I found watching the cricket on the SXRD a very pleasurable experience indeed.

Ive had a couple of days of viewing pleasure and all i can say is ........WOW :D

Never have i been more impressed with a tv than now .

Granted some SD transmissions do look a little shabby but after playing with the settings ive managed to get an acceptable quality that im happy with .

The HD-DVD has been working over time the last few nights :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's now time to do something about my SXRD convergence.

I'm not a big fan of tennis but watched a little bit on 7 over the last few days. The white lines are not clean.....on the right there is a red edge, on the left there is a green edge, and on top there is a blue edge. I wonder if other owners would check their sets to see if they have the same experience. I suspect it will be visible to many.

With my 3 previous CRT RPTVs I always noticed that the tennis court white lines always showed convergence problems, especially when the camera is panning and then they become even more obvious.

Does anyone happen to know anybody at Sony service who "specialises" in SXRDs? Otherwise I'll just ring and see what happens.

drsmith....with the cricket I find it very mixed quality. Close in the PQ is good, but at a distance especially with panning or zooming I notice an enormous number of artifacts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've also found that the quality of FTA via my HTPC and via the in-built tuner are very similar.

Just thought I'd mention that mine did the reset thing today. I was sitting there watching a DVD and all of a sudden the screen went black and the green power light started flashing like it does when you first turn it on.

This is the first time that it's done it to me - about 200 hours of viewing so far. It's by far the hottest day that I've been watching the TV so maybe it's heat related??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The HD-DVD has been working over time the last few nights :blink:

What have you watched? I only had Apollo 13 but 7 more on the way. And another 10 on my Amazon wishlist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.