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Submariner

Sony Dvpns76h

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Hi guys,

I recently bought a Sony DVP-NS76H. I was initially very happy with it; it's quite a bit better than my $70 Sansui DVD player. However, after watching a few more movies (other than the animations like Ice Age, Over the Hedge, etc. with my kids), I'm thinking less and less of it. (I have a 50" LG plasma with NO inbuilt upscaling function.)

To date, the Sony just doesn't compare to my modded original xbox with XBMC (at least in terms of upscaling - it's certainly better for colour and clarity, as the xbox is only component). When watching dark scenes with faces and people moving around, there is a lot of striping of the skin - particularly around the edges of the face (hairline, nose, jawline). It seems to struggle to deliver a smooth transition of dark to light on skin. I don't know the technical terms for these symptoms, sorry. It's very like watching SD on the 50" HD plasma.

I've tried the same scenes with the xbox, and it's absolutely perfect, so it's not a TV setting.

I just watched '1492 - Conquest of Paradise', and it was, in fact, so bad that I'm beginning to wonder whether I've missed some basic setting like 'Turn Upscaling On'. Or perhaps I just got a faulty unit? It sounds crazy, I know... It's just that with some movies (I can't say "all" yet, 'cos I haven't tested enough) the Sony seems to be about the same quality as SD TV (which isn't good). It's nowhere near HD, and nowhere near the results delivered by the modded xbox. I'm very disappointed. I had expected the results to be better than SD.

It's also fairly ordinary with 'The Matrix' and 'Children of Men'. 'Terminator 2' seemed ok, but I only tested the opening scene.

NOTE: I've tried tweaking the Custom Picture Mode, BNR, MNR & Sharpness settings, but to no avail.

I know I said it's better than my Sansui, and I still think it is. But the Sansui was WORSE than watching SD TV.

Can anyone help? Is there a setting I'm missing? Do I have a faulty player? Or are some movies just harder to upscale? I'd love to show you the results I'm getting, but I don't know if I can do a screen capture, and it wouldn't show the fault to full effect anyway, as it's most evident when there's motion.

Cheers.

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You very well may have a faulty unit, because neither i or others i know have experienced such problems. Infact it is very, very good, equivelent to players two or three times it's price. Have you turned on upscaling. You have to go into the set-up menu, but you can only do this in stop mode and not when a DVD is playing. You will see something that say's "HDMI resolution", then force it onto 1080i instead of auto or 576p or whatever it's on now. Try that and report back.

In a different thread about your TV,

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtop...mp;#entry628886

You have explained the exact same problems when watching other SD material on your TV, because you mention The Biggest Loser which as far as i know isn't even on DVD. And i see someone else has the same problem with there panel as you. So why are you blaming these faults on a perfect, top-notch DVD player when you know theres something wrong with your TV.

Edited by JimboTHX1138

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You very well may have a faulty unit, because neither i or others i know have experienced such problems. Infact it is very, very good, equivelent to players two or three times it's price. Have you turned on upscaling. You have to go into the set-up menu, but you can only do this in stop mode and not when a DVD is playing. You will see something that say's "HDMI resolution", then force it onto 1080i instead of auto or 576p or whatever it's on now. Try that and report back.

Yep, definitely set to 1080i (I've also tried 720p).

In a different thread about your TV,

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtop...mp;#entry628886

You have explained the exact same problems when watching other SD material on your TV, because you mention The Biggest Loser which as far as i know isn't even on DVD. And i see someone else has the same problem with there panel as you. So why are you blaming these faults on a perfect, top-notch DVD player when you know theres something wrong with your TV.

Definitely have similar symptoms when watching SD TV. However, as these problems don't occur when watching the same scenes with the modded xbox, it can't be the TV.

As to whether there's "something wrong" with my TV, to my knowledge, the symptoms I've described aren't uncommon on large screen plasmas when watching SD TV.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not TRYING to find fault with the Sony. It's just the fault is jumping out at me...

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Yep, definitely set to 1080i (I've also tried 720p).

Definitely have similar symptoms when watching SD TV. However, as these problems don't occur when watching the same scenes with the modded xbox, it can't be the TV.

As to whether there's "something wrong" with my TV, to my knowledge, the symptoms I've described aren't uncommon on large screen plasmas when watching SD TV.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not TRYING to find fault with the Sony. It's just the fault is jumping out at me...

This problem has never been heard of before. So either you have a faulty player or a faulty TV. I have never seen any such problems like the ones described on my Panasonic plasmas.

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This problem has never been heard of before. So either you have a faulty player or a faulty TV. I have never seen any such problems like the ones described on my Panasonic plasmas.

Thanks again JimboTHX1138. Appreciate your time and help.

Can I just ask, do you have / watch any of the movies noted in my previous posts? (Not the animations...) If so, do you notice ANYTHING that you'd consider a flaw in the reproduction of the Sony? And you're watching on a big plasma, from memory, too aren't you? I ask, 'cos I could count on one hand the number of scenes in '1492...' that I didn't notice some pretty annoying problems. If you're getting squeaky clean reproduction, then surely there can't be that much difference... Surely that would indicate that either my particular Sony unit or my TV is the problem. (Given that everything looks great through the xbox, I can only assume that it's the unit.)

What about everyone else? (Sorry JimboTHX1138; it's not that I don't trust your opinion, I'd just like to hear the experiences of others too, especially if I'm gonna spend valuable time chasing an exchange / refund.)

I'll await your next answer, then consider my options re calling for an exchange.

Thanks again.

Cheers.

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To date, the Sony just doesn't compare to my modded original xbox with XBMC (at least in terms of upscaling - it's certainly better for colour and clarity, as the xbox is only component).

<SNIP>

However, as these problems don't occur when watching the same scenes with the modded xbox, it can't be the TV.

Hmmm, are you watching the LG using component cable with the Xbox and HDMI cable withe the Sony DVD player? If you are, it is possible the HDMI input on the LG is where the problem occurs and that would be a problem with the TV. Maybe try using the Sony with component cable, although IMO, HDMI looks a lot better than the component picture with the Sony.

BTW I use a 42" NEC plasma and don't have your problems.

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Thanks again JimboTHX1138. Appreciate your time and help.

Can I just ask, do you have / watch any of the movies noted in my previous posts? (Not the animations...) If so, do you notice ANYTHING that you'd consider a flaw in the reproduction of the Sony? And you're watching on a big plasma, from memory, too aren't you? I ask, 'cos I could count on one hand the number of scenes in '1492...' that I didn't notice some pretty annoying problems. If you're getting squeaky clean reproduction, then surely there can't be that much difference... Surely that would indicate that either my particular Sony unit or my TV is the problem. (Given that everything looks great through the xbox, I can only assume that it's the unit.)

What about everyone else? (Sorry JimboTHX1138; it's not that I don't trust your opinion, I'd just like to hear the experiences of others too, especially if I'm gonna spend valuable time chasing an exchange / refund.)

I'll await your next answer, then consider my options re calling for an exchange.

Thanks again.

Cheers.

I have said that i have not experienced any of the problems you mention with the Sony, out of the ones you specify i have seen The Matrix but i'm getting great PQ.

Have you read what other people think of the Sony starting from the beginning of this topic, or another review:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=43951

I've giving you the link to the Secrets Benchmarks of this player before, where they run every test imaginable:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/sho...mp;articles=133

If you think it's the player then take it back and try the Oppo OPDV971H which has Faroudja which you were considering before, here is the Benchmarks for that player, it scored 96.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/sho...manufacturer=68

But IMO there is nothing wrong with the player and the end result will be the same because i think it's a fault with the TV as you have said before about poor PQ with other SD material, and someone else with your TV is experiencing the same thing.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtop...mp;#entry628886

I think the Sony is great, it's a pity you haven't had the same experience.

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Hi guys,

Thanks again for your help.

I have said that i have not experienced any of the problems you mention with the Sony, out of the ones you specify i have seen The Matrix but i'm getting great PQ.

Any possibility you could do a screen capture of the introduction of the scene where Neo says, "I know Kung Fu."? I think this is chapter 15 (at least it is on my DVD). I'd love to have something objective to compare with. I'd love to see one of the closeup of his face as he's lying in the chair as the camera pans onto him from behind the monitor.

Have you read what other people think of the Sony starting from the beginning of this topic, or another review:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=43951

Yep, read all the reviews I could find.

I've giving you the link to the Secrets Benchmarks of this player before, where they run every test imaginable:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/sho...mp;articles=133

I appreciate that. However, as the player obviously isn't perfect, there are always going to be some flaws. I'm experiencing some, but I don't know what to call them, how to measure them or how to illustrate them. So the benchmarks are interesting, but they don't really help me with my problem.

But IMO there is nothing wrong with the player and the end result will be the same because i think it's a fault with the TV as you have said before about poor PQ with other SD material, and someone else with your TV is experiencing the same thing.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtop...mp;#entry628886

The problem discussed in that post is with SD TV. There's no upscaling going on there. The LG plasma obviously has a bit of trouble displaying SD picture that HASN'T been upscaled. Here, we're talking about similar symptoms AFTER upscaling through the Sony. What's more, those symptoms only occur with one of my two upscaling DVD players.

So here's my guess at what we're looking at here (in order of most likely to least likely):

  1. The Sony doesn't do a 100% job on the upscaling, resulting in some SD-like signal getting through, and my plasma doesn't pick up the shortfall effectively. (Thus the similarity with the SD TV signal discussed in the thread above.) Whether this is a fault or just how the player is, I couldn't say.
  2. The HDMI input on my plasma is dodgy. (As pointed out by Submariner, the xbox is outputting its perfectly upscaled pic through component.)
  3. The HDMI cable is dodgy.

Problem is, it'll take me quite a while to identify which - if any - of the above is the case, 'cos it's so difficult to measure and record anything objectively.

I'll do a bit more research and report back. In the meantime, if anyone has anything else they'd like to add that might help me, I'd be very grateful.

Cheers.

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Hi guys,

Thanks again for your help.

Any possibility you could do a screen capture of the introduction of the scene where Neo says, "I know Kung Fu."? I think this is chapter 15 (at least it is on my DVD). I'd love to have something objective to compare with. I'd love to see one of the closeup of his face as he's lying in the chair as the camera pans onto him from behind the monitor.

Yep, read all the reviews I could find.

I appreciate that. However, as the player obviously isn't perfect, there are always going to be some flaws. I'm experiencing some, but I don't know what to call them, how to measure them or how to illustrate them. So the benchmarks are interesting, but they don't really help me with my problem.

The problem discussed in that post is with SD TV. There's no upscaling going on there. The LG plasma obviously has a bit of trouble displaying SD picture that HASN'T been upscaled. Here, we're talking about similar symptoms AFTER upscaling through the Sony. What's more, those symptoms only occur with one of my two upscaling DVD players.

So here's my guess at what we're looking at here (in order of most likely to least likely):

  1. The Sony doesn't do a 100% job on the upscaling, resulting in some SD-like signal getting through, and my plasma doesn't pick up the shortfall effectively. (Thus the similarity with the SD TV signal discussed in the thread above.) Whether this is a fault or just how the player is, I couldn't say.
  2. The HDMI input on my plasma is dodgy. (As pointed out by Submariner, the xbox is outputting its perfectly upscaled pic through component.)
  3. The HDMI cable is dodgy.

Problem is, it'll take me quite a while to identify which - if any - of the above is the case, 'cos it's so difficult to measure and record anything objectively.

I'll do a bit more research and report back. In the meantime, if anyone has anything else they'd like to add that might help me, I'd be very grateful.

Cheers.

I find it funny that no one else has experienced your problems with the Sony, but your still so sure the player is at fault. Seeing that someone else with your TV is experiencing the same with SD material, the problem is likely within your TV, maybe a dodgy HDMI input as described before. I don't have the time at the moment to do a screen capture for you but have told you that the picture is flawless. I think it would be better for you to post some screen captures to better illustrate the problems your having, seeing that you are having trouble describing it and so your problem can be better diagnosed.

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I find it funny that no one else has experienced your problems with the Sony, but your still so sure the player is at fault.

It's not that I think the player is 'at fault'. It's more that I suspect the particular combination of the Sony and my LG plasma isn't a good one (so there's no real fault at all). Perhaps everyone else has a plasma that handles SD signal better than the LG, and therefore handle any of the player's shortfalls better. (Obviously the player isn't perfect or the benchmarks would have given it 100%.)

Seeing that someone else with your TV is experiencing the same with SD material, the problem is likely within your TV, maybe a dodgy HDMI input as described before.

The problem that the other person was having was with SD TV, not upscaling of SD to HD. Therefore, no HDMI cable was involved.

I don't have the time at the moment to do a screen capture for you but have told you that the picture is flawless. I think it would be better for you to post some screen captures to better illustrate the problems your having, seeing that you are having trouble describing it and so your problem can be better diagnosed.

I'd be more than happy to, but I don't think my TV has that functionality. At least, I haven't discovered it yet. Is there some standard way of doing it that I don't know about, or does there have to be an option in the menus somewhere?

Cheers.

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It's not that I think the player is 'at fault'. It's more that I suspect the particular combination of the Sony and my LG plasma isn't a good one (so there's no real fault at all). Perhaps everyone else has a plasma that handles SD signal better than the LG, and therefore handle any of the player's shortfalls better. (Obviously the player isn't perfect or the benchmarks would have given it 100%.)

The problem that the other person was having was with SD TV, not upscaling of SD to HD. Therefore, no HDMI cable was involved.

I'd be more than happy to, but I don't think my TV has that functionality. At least, I haven't discovered it yet. Is there some standard way of doing it that I don't know about, or does there have to be an option in the menus somewhere?

Cheers.

Do you have a digital camera?

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Tried that last night, but the results aren't clear enough to illustrate the problem.

If you can't post screen captures it makes it hard to help you. Have you tried the component output as suggested by Submariner, both HDMI and component do 576p so comparing the two should tell you whether you have a problem with your HDMI input or not.

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Hi guys,

Do I have a faulty player? Or are some movies just harder to upscale?

Cheers.

On my Panasonic 50" PX600a, my Panasonic 42" PX600 plasmas and my 2 Panasonic 32" LX600 Lcd's the quality of the upacaled picture from this player is perfect. Equally as good if not better then my Yamaha 1700B which is 3 times the price (the yamaha has better sound for sure but we are talking PQ)

LG 50' use basic awful 540 BOB deinterlacing so if your player is connected via HDMI then the Sony's default setting of 1080i is going to become 540p inside the LG which is actualy less then standard definition progressive from a normal non upscaled DVD.

You will probably get a better picture setting the Sony to output 720p or even 576p.

So its not the player......nope you've just got a LG.

Which is why people around here say that LG stands for Looking Grim.

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Nope you've just got a LG ...... Looking Grim

Hi taksan. Thanks (I think :blink: ) Is this a particular problem that you know of with LG plasmas, or is it just that you're not a fan of them generally (i.e. lots of other issues)?

Cheers.

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Have you tried the component output as suggested by Submariner, both HDMI and component do 576p so comparing the two should tell you whether you have a problem with your HDMI input or not.

Nup, not yet. I have, however, tried changing the Sony HDMI resolution to 576p. I only tested it on one DVD, but I didn't notice any of the issues I've mentioned. So (albeit my test sample was a little narrow) that would kinda eliminate the HDMI, wouldn't it?

Note that the overall quality was reduced with 576p, so it's not really a viable long-term solution...

Cheers.

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Nup, not yet. I have, however, tried changing the Sony HDMI resolution to 576p. I only tested it on one DVD, but I didn't notice any of the issues I've mentioned. So (albeit my test sample was a little narrow) that would kinda eliminate the HDMI, wouldn't it?

Note that the overall quality was reduced with 576p, so it's not really a viable long-term solution...

Cheers.

I thought i was doing you a favor by recommending this great $200 player to you. You have had other people tell you how good this player is and saying the same as me that it is as good as other players two or three times it's price. No one else has these issues you mention. Ever since recommending you this player all i've heard is that it is no good, poor PQ, poor upscaling etc. When there is nothing wrong with the player. Instead of keep believing it's the player at fault, take a look at what the real problem is, your LG TV.

If you don't listen to the advice offered how can i help you.

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Nup, not yet. I have, however, tried changing the Sony HDMI resolution to 576p. I only tested it on one DVD, but I didn't notice any of the issues I've mentioned. So (albeit my test sample was a little narrow) that would kinda eliminate the HDMI, wouldn't it?

Sounds like there is some sort of issue with the upscaled signal sent by the Sony and the way the LG handles upscaled HDMI content. Unfortunately, this problem may happen with other upscaling players and your LG. Could be luck of the draw, with getting another brand that works with the LG.

spoco2 has some pictures on his site, using a digital camera, showing the differnce between component and HDMI. Worth a look:

http://simon.oconnorlamb.com/sonyDVPNS76H_..._upscaling.html

BTW did you try another HDMI cable? The upscaled picture is using more bandwidth than the standard 576p picture and that may cause problems for a damaged or cheap cable. How long is your cable?

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Sounds like there is some sort of issue with the upscaled signal sent by the Sony and the way the LG handles upscaled HDMI content. Unfortunately, this problem may happen with other upscaling players and your LG. Could be luck of the draw, with getting another brand that works with the LG.

spoco2 has some pictures on his site, using a digital camera, showing the differnce between component and HDMI. Worth a look:

http://simon.oconnorlamb.com/sonyDVPNS76H_..._upscaling.html

BTW did you try another HDMI cable? The upscaled picture is using more bandwidth than the standard 576p picture and that may cause problems for a damaged or cheap cable. How long is your cable?

Thanks Submariner. Much appreciated.

I'm using a 6ft Belkin HDMI cable, brand new. Haven't tried another, 'cos that's the only one in the house. Fairly expensive suckers, aren't they?!

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Thanks Submariner. Much appreciated.

I'm using a 6ft Belkin HDMI cable, brand new. Haven't tried another, 'cos that's the only one in the house. Fairly expensive suckers, aren't they?!

Belkin should be alright and the length is fine. Too bad you could not try the Sony and the cable on another display, that could clear things up. Maybe you could ask a friend who has a display with HDMI?

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