blujein

Concerned about 4K video ghost/lag/stutter

13 posts in this topic

Hi everyone

A few days ago I purchased a new Sony Bravia X85E (http://www.sony.com.au/electronics/televisions/X8500E-Series), but not until today have I had the chance to set it up. Unfortunately, I don't yet have a 4K Blu-ray player, so my only 4K option is with Netflix's UltraHD $17 per month plan - which I've purchased. I loaded one of the Netflix UltraHD titles today ("House Of Cards"), and while the buffering proved slightly problematic (here in Ainslie in the ACT we don't yet have the NBN), when the steam did seem to work the clarity was reasonable but there was a strange ghosting/lagging/stuttering happening. It didn't effect the audio stream, but the video had a strange 'feel' to it. I know I'm using vague terms, but I don't honestly know how to best describe the issues that's being presented. This might simply be due to the 4K video stream, but, honestly, I was also fairly unimpressed with the quality of the standard HD movies (again from Netflix). Is this likely to be a Netflix concern or is the TV I've now got just not as good as I expected?

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5 minutes ago, blujein said:

Netflix concern

... and your connection speed.

Get a 1080p or UHD bluray player and see how that looks... should blow you away.

JSmith :ninja:

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8 minutes ago, jsmith said:

... and your connection speed.

Get a 1080p or UHD bluray player and see how that looks... should blow you away.

JSmith :ninja:

That's what I've expected - thanks for the confirmation. :)

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Just now, blujein said:

That's what I've expected - thanks for the confirmation. :)

No worries... keep in mind Netflix etc. use varying amounts of compression depending on detected line speed and even when compression is at a minimum it's still not as good as higher bitrate bluray.

JSmith :ninja:

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2 hours ago, blujein said:

I loaded one of the Netflix UltraHD titles today ("House Of Cards"), and while the buffering proved slightly problematic (here in Ainslie in the ACT we don't yet have the NBN), when the steam did seem to work the clarity was reasonable but there was a strange ghosting/lagging/stuttering happening. It didn't effect the audio stream, but the video had a strange 'feel' to it. I know I'm using vague terms, but I don't honestly know how to best describe the issues that's being presented. This might simply be due to the 4K video stream, but, honestly, I was also fairly unimpressed with the quality of the standard HD movies (again from Netflix). Is this likely to be a Netflix concern or is the TV I've now got just not as good as I expected?

There shouldn't be any ghosting/lagging/stuttering when viewing Australian Netflix with a late model Sony 4K TV, provided you have a reasonably stable  internet connection.   What download speed are you getting for your Sony TV? 

Netflix behaviour with low (but stable) internet speeds

What Netflix does with 4K material if the connection speed drops too low (say below 10Mbps) is to seamlessly switch to lower resolutions (such as 1440p, 1080p, 720p, or even lower). You will probably be able to see the actual Netflix streaming resolution displayed on your Sony TV screen by pressing the information button on the remote control.  When you first start watching a particular Netflix show it may start at a very low resolution (240p or 360p) and then ramp up after about 30 seconds to 1080p, or if available, 2160p,

You should be able get by with quite low internet connection speeds and see a non-stuttering picture.  

If the TV is using wi-fi to access the internet router it will need to be not too far from the router and/or there shouldn't be too many intervening walls. And of course any other use of the internet at your place could reduce what is available for the TV to access.  

Picture quality

The HD movies/shows on Australian Netflix do tend to look soft as regards resolution, but in my opinion the 4K material usually looks better as regards resolution than Full HD Blu-rays, at least for static or near static scenes. I commented on this in a thread about NBN download speeds:-

On 3/5/2017 at 3:20 PM, MLXXX said:

The Netflix "4K" content for relatively static scenes looks better to me than Blu-ray Full HD content for relatively static scenes. I sometimes feel startled by the clarity! So although inevitably not as good as very high bitrate "4K" it is a step up from Full HD Blu-ray for dramas, in my opinion. A similar situation arises when watching a drama on a free to air Full HD service with limited rate MPEG-4 video. It beats PAL DVD most of the time, but won't be as good as a Full HD Blu-ray disc. 

 

In the past I noticed a very slight motion instability with Australian Netflix when using a Fetch Box to access Netflix.. My previous Sony 4K TV couldn't access 4K Netfix but could access HD Netflix and there was no stuttering.

Our current Sony 4K TV, a 2015 model, accesses Australian Netflix at 4K and lower resolutions without any stuttering/ghosting. We have cable (HFC) for internet access, which has been providing around a 20Mbps download or better speed, most of the time. Very occasionally (only about once or twice a month) the picture may freeze and the TV will display a message that the Netflix content is unavailable and to try later. However within a minute or so the service will become usable again and thereafter will provide a non-stuttering picture.

As a quick afterthought, I assume the Sony TV is not just producing excessive motion smoothing. If you are particularly sensitive to "soap opera effect" you may be witnessing a ghosting from motion interpolation performed by the set on 24fps movies. 

Edited by MLXXX
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7 minutes ago, MLXXX said:

As a quick afterthought, I assume the Sony TV is not just producing excessive motion smoothing. If you are particularly sensitive to "soap opera effect" you may be witnessing a ghosting from motion interpolation performed by the set on 24fps movies. 

Yep, for sure... turn that off or to min. :o

JSmith :ninja:

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one of THE problems usually with Sony's is inability to turn off all their processing....

and one of the problem with all that processing usually is with the less than ideal pristine material things can go haywire and end up with more of a mess to start with. 

re streaming off the net. you cant get around all the compression necessary to keep within the limits of the lowest common denominator....basically if want THE best PQ disc is best. honestly uhd players are so cheap now. discs are so cheap too not much more than standard blu-rays.

 

 

Edited by :) al
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3 minutes ago, :) al said:

basically if want THE best PQ disc is best.

Yep, I agree. MLXXX is right in saying the 4K Netflix is about as good as a decent 1080p bluray when compression is at a minimum, but not much I've seen can touch a well authored UHD bluray for ultimate PQ.

JSmith :ninja:

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Netflix at my place will commence resolving 4K content at 7.63 mbps.   I find some of the issues you mention are evident in certain Netflix 4K titles and suspect it may have something to do with the HDR version, ie HDR 10 or Dolby Vision.  

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12 hours ago, MLXXX said:

As a quick afterthought, I assume the Sony TV is not just producing excessive motion smoothing. If you are particularly sensitive to "soap opera effect" you may be witnessing a ghosting from motion interpolation performed by the set on 24fps movies. 

What you've described here is probably what the problem is, actually - I just did a lousy job of describing what I was seeing.

12 hours ago, jsmith said:

Yep, for sure... turn that off or to min. :o

JSmith :ninja:

How can this be done...?

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13 minutes ago, blujein said:

How can this be done...?

In the 'Motion' tab, 'Motionflow' and 'Cinemotion' were left turned off, but if you like the motion interpolation (or commonly named the soap opera effect), simply adjust the 'Motionflow' setting to 'Custom' and increase the 'Smoothness' slider. The 'Clearness' slider controls the image flicker control of the TV. To know more about this feature you can click here. If you are watching a movie via a 24p source and notice some judder, simply set 'Motionflow' to 'True Cinema' and 'CineMotion' to 'High' to have a judder-free experience. This doesn't add any soap opera effect.

Adjusting 'Cinemotion' will change the threshold for interpolation. Set it to 'High' for the strongest soap opera effect'. Note that motion interpolation will introduce artefacts on any TV.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x850e/settings

JSmith :ninja:

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Thanks for the help, everyone! It seems that the biggest issue is with the Internet connection here - it's running at 5.53Mbps (average) - sometimes climbing to 7.5Mbps - but it's inconsistent.

Looks like I'm in the market for a 4K Blu-ray player!

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46 minutes ago, blujein said:

It seems that the biggest issue is with the Internet connection here - it's running at 5.53Mbps (average) - sometimes climbing to 7.5Mbps - but it's inconsistent.

I thought as much, especially after looking at average speeds in your area... it's a shame that decent internet services in Australia are hard to come by. <_<

Let us know what you think once you get a 4K UHD player and some titles. :)

JSmith :ninja:

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