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alanh

Lg Stylus Mobile Phone With Dab+ Built In Is Available In Australia

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http://www.lg.com/au/smartphones/lg-LGK520K-stylus-dab-plus-smartphone RRP $449

​So this phone can receive DAB+ and FM radio. Now you will be able to receive all major broadcasters (including AM broadcasters' programs) in mainland state capitals without using an app and paying for your data to listen to the radio.

DAB+ is broadcast in most European countries including a few programs in the UK. Norway is going to switchoff all analog radio. Italy is now rapidly expanding DAB+ transmissions.

What will this do to the predictions that radio will all go to mobile broadband?

Alanh

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With Optus experiment of not charging for data with iHeartRadio. Spotify & Google play it will be interesting. I think the mobile data will win long term. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/245504

My honest view suburban dab radio should be repeated around the state. Country analog radio will be for local content. Convert as many AM stations in the regional areas to FM where possible.

But it might be too late the mobile phone I think will take over.

Edited by mgaleano

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http://nabpilot.org/work/projects/fm-radio-in-smartphones/ You can see the power of the telecom companies trying to prevent FM radio capability being switched on. Remember that the USA has a population of over 300 million and only 11 million smartphones have FM activated! Note the number of Apple products with FM! They are obviously forcing users into ITunes! No mention of the number of smartphones with HD radio on FM!!!

The mobile phone system cannot handle the numbers of listeners that major radio stations broadcast to particularly for high rating breakfast programs. There just isn't enough bandwidth.

FM radio in regional areas most sites have an AM commercial station with a supplementary FM licence. ABC Local radio is in high power FM mono in the Eastern states outside of the capital cities. in WA and SA and NT AM only with the addition of HF(Short Wave) in Alice Springs, Tennant Creek and Katherine. ABC local radio in Darwin is on FM because of the lightning in the monsoon season.

Commercial Radio Australia is only interested in DAB+ coverage in towns and a few highways, not general coverage given by AM broadcasters. Strangely they are not pushing DRM. After all, it was Commercial Radio Australia and others who made Australia the first country to broadcast DAB+ continuously at high power when there were few receivers available. Look at the range and prices now by comparison!

Regional areas would be much better off going to DRM30 or DRM+ (using the old analog TV channels 0 - 2 ie 45 - 70 MHz) to get the large coverage areas than FM (87.5 - 108 MHz) and DAB+ (195 - 209 MHz), in much better quality than AM.

India with a population of 1300 million is nearing completion of DRM30 high power coverage in the "AM" band and have started manufacturing receivers both portable and car has now been tested.

The sound quality of smart phones is pretty terrible unless headphones are used for not only the sound but as the antenna, and 33 % of radio listening is done in cars where the sound quality is better than smartphone speakers.

As for AM sound quality read this http://www.nrscstandards.org/standards%20accept/standards-download%20NRSC-G100-A.asp accept the copyright conditions and download NRSC-G100-A Bandwidth Options for Analog AM Broadcasters September 2012. Remember that our stations are 9 kHz apart wideband receivers so a 9 kHz low pass filter is required. At night time a 9 kHz whistle can be very annoying. For the article, the 7 kHz examples have to be used. Fortunately we have rejected HD radio a long time ago.

Alanh

Edited by alanh

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What will this do to the predictions that radio will all go to mobile broadband?

I don't think anyone really predicted "radio will all go to mobile broadband" (although we have discussed the technical aspects of doing so). What's consistently been predicted is that radio would be replaced by streaming, local playlists, or other sources.

And, given that radio's potential audience size (population) keeps increasing while average listener numbers keep decreasing - feel free to run the numbers yourself - that's looking increasingly true...

As for "the telecom companies trying to prevent FM radio capability being switched on" in your second comment ... well, the most charitable thing I can say is that once again you've been mislead by blindly accepting PR spin. It was only ever really a US issue - and let's face it, apart from Apple's iPhone they've been backwards and years behind the rest of the world in mobiles since the year dot. How else do you explain the fact that the rest of the world has had no problem producing & buying mobiles with FM, ISDB-T (or -Tsb or -Tmm), DMB-T - or yes, even in some cases, DAB - for years?

DRM - notwithstanding the Indian rollout and the attempts by the consortium and a few enthusiastic amateurs in Brasil - is dead. It just hasn't stopped wiggling yet.

DRM30's been standardised for 15 years. In that time only ~10 consumer receivers have been released, and there's only 2 currently available. Both - by personal experience with the Avion, and reports from / discussions with M&M TUV300 owners - are dogs. The Avion certainly isn't fit for purpose as an AM radio, let alone DRM...

DRM+ has been standardised for 7 years. In that time 0 consumer receivers have been released, there are no signs of any on the horizon, and the technology provides no compelling reasons for either listeners or broadcasters to switch from either FM or DAB beyond "digital is better!".

I don't understand the point of introducing a US NRSC/NAB/CEA document into the discussion. It's like bringing a meringue to a gunfight - totally irrelevant. And I guess by your final sentence you still haven't accepted that (AM-band) HDradio and DRM share exactly the same issues in when operated in their equivalent modes - which is not surprising, since the methods used by both are almost exactly the same.

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Malich,

What does streaming use? What proportion of those using streaming do it via an app on a mobile phone which the broadcasters constantly push!

What is the source of your assertion that audience numbers are dropping when Commercial Radio Australia only gives percentage shares on their website. The only statement on total numbers is a 1.84 % increase over last year. http://www.radioitsalovething.com.au/RIALT/media/RIALT/PDF/ListeningSummary_2015-Infographic_1.pdf?ext=.pdf ABC radio had an increase of 1.73 % over the previous year from their annual report. SBS makes no mention of radio listener numbers.

You were the one who didn't believe that the FM tuner in cell phones in the USA were not enabled. My source for the US information is the research department of the National Association of Broadcasters who have been pushing the Federal Communications Commission to legislate.

DRM has just been adopted in Indonesia http://www.drm.org/?p=4112 where it is ideal for the many thousands of islands in that country, and a population of 250 million. Add that to the 13000 million in India. I recall that you said that when the first DRM transmitter started in India its purpose was for propaganda for Pakistan. http://www.nautel.com/solutions/digital-radio/high-power-drm-mw-am-transmitters-air/ do you still hold this view.

The non inclusion of HD radio is relevant, because it is digital radio in the USA is not available in phones, where as in Australia and Europe it now is.

The AM quality was brought in because of mgaleano's suggestion of using AM in the country. Why should country people be denied better quality sound?

Why don't mobile phones contain AM radio tuners as well. It is simple technology and the headphone wire can be used as an antenna like it is for all other radio on phones. In Europe AM has virtually been replaced by FM and DAB/DAB+

As for a comparison of HD radio and DRM30 they are not the same at all other than they share the MF band. AM HD radio transmissions have virtually disappeared at night in the USA because of interference, due to the interference with other broadcasters at night and the lack of allowable digital power. For a start look at audio compression systems..... http://allindiaradio.gov.in/Services/Digital%20Transmission/Pages/simple.aspx shows they are already transmitting DRM only signals. Something the US broadcasters are only talking about. You should also note that the HD radio systems transmit their digital signals on both adjacent channels, where as the DRM signals are using a pair of channels one analog and the other digital on only one adjacent channel. This greatly reduces the nighttime interference.

I have read the reports on the Avion radios, but they are coming from listeners who are not in the coverage area of the DRM transmissions. All India Radio do not transmit a signal towards North America, http://allindiaradio.gov.in/Services/Digital%20Transmission/Pages/simple.aspx , and the DRM section is not being used where the transmissions are being broadcast at very high power. High sensitivity could actually be a disadvantage, making the receiver more susceptible to noise which will cause signal breakup.

Alanh

Edited by alanh

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Malich,

What does streaming use? What proportion of those using streaming do it via an app on a mobile phone which the broadcasters constantly push!

You're missing the point. People are increasingly listening to content, not broadcasts. How they get that content - whether it be streamed live, delayed, or on-demand, or downloaded previously - is irrelevant to them.

What is the source of your assertion that audience numbers are dropping when Commercial Radio Australia only gives percentage shares on their website. The only statement on total numbers is a 1.84 % increase over last year. http://www.radioitsalovething.com.au/RIALT/media/RIALT/PDF/ListeningSummary_2015-Infographic_1.pdf?ext=.pdf ABC radio had an increase of 1.73 % over the previous year from their annual report. SBS makes no mention of radio listener numbers.

My source is Commercial Radio Australia's own published figures. Remember, I'm not doing your homework for you anymore. You need to look again, only harder...

You were the one who didn't believe that the FM tuner in cell phones in the USA were not enabled.

Now you're just making stuff up...

DRM has just been adopted in Indonesia ...

No it hasn't. If you can't be bothered to read and understand your own links (& preferably have them confirmed by non-partial sources), how can you expect your claims to be taken seriously?

Or are you going to claim that France, Australia, or China have adopted DRM, just because the state broadcasters from those places are also listed as DRM Consortium members / associate members (and at least one has signed a 'cooperation agreement')?

I recall that you said that when the first DRM transmitter started in India its purpose was for propaganda for Pakistan. http://www.nautel.com/solutions/digital-radio/high-power-drm-mw-am-transmitters-air/ do you still hold this view.

I still hold the same view I expressed originally, which was subsequently confirmed by several official sources (including the CEO of Prasar Bharati). That is not the quite view you have just attributed to me.

You need to go back and re-acquaint yourself with what I actually wrote (and have continued to write), not what your attitude and faulty memory leads you to believe I wrote...

(... skipping Alan's attempt at dragging AM into the argument - as I wrote earlier, it's totally irrelevant ...)

As for a comparison of HD radio and DRM30 they are not the same at all other than they share the MF band. AM HD radio transmissions have virtually disappeared at night in the USA because of interference, due to the interference with other broadcasters at night and the lack of allowable digital power. For a start look at audio compression systems..... http://allindiaradio.gov.in/Services/Digital%20Transmission/Pages/simple.aspx shows they are already transmitting DRM only signals. Something the US broadcasters are only talking about. You should also note that the HD radio systems transmit their digital signals on both adjacent channels, where as the DRM signals are using a pair of channels one analog and the other digital on only one adjacent channel. This greatly reduces the nighttime interference.

Once again, you need to go back and read exactly what I wrote. Particularly the bit where I said they have "exactly the same issues in when operated in their equivalent modes".

The issues plaguing HDradio in the USA are all down to the particular broadcast situation there (crowded bands with so-called 'clear channels' & high powers) and the resultant choice of HDradio's IBOC mode. If the USA had implemented DRM the same way they implemented HDradio (using DRM's same-channel simulcast mode, the equivalent to HDradio's IBOC) - which they'd have to do, for the same reasons they chose HDradio's IBOC mode rather than using a full channel in either stand-alone or adjacent-channel simulcast mode - they would still be having the exact same problems.

The fact that you consistently fail to grasp that after having it explained to you multiple times, over several years, by several people, here and elsewhere, simply shows your lack of understanding of both the broadcast situation in the USA and the relevant technical details of both HDradio and DRM...

I have read the reports on the Avion radios...

So you haven't actually seen or tried one yourself?

Ahem - I have...

, but they are coming from listeners who are not in the coverage area of the DRM transmissions. All India Radio do not transmit a signal towards North America, http://allindiaradio.gov.in/Services/Digital%20Transmission/Pages/simple.aspx , and the DRM section is not being used where the transmissions are being broadcast at very high power. High sensitivity could actually be a disadvantage, making the receiver more susceptible to noise which will cause signal breakup.

The reports you've seen, maybe. Others, from people within the MW AM-band DRM coverage areas inside India, tell exactly the same story.

And - to put not too fine a point upon it - I'm not exactly stationary at my usual location. I have recently used one inside a very relevant DRM coverage area, and I stand by my assertion in my earlier post that it's "not fit for purpose". It is a dog of a radio with poor sensitivity, poor overload performance (yes, it doesn't work well "where the transmissions are being broadcast at very high power" either!), has an absolutely atrocious and near-pointless UI (although the firmware update fixed that slightly), and - to top it off - is a poorly designed and constructed piece of junk both inside and out.

Overall: these discussions would be much more relevant, fruitful, and informative to all if you just took the time to understand what you're reading, and not just blindly accept press releases as fact or over-react argumentatively to what you imagine other people have written.

Or, at least, stick to the subject you start and don't drag in everything from DRM to the kitchen sink in an attempt to baffle people with a wall of poorly-thought-out and irrelevant text everytime someone slightly disagrees with you...

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