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TheFrog

2012 Led's With 2005/6 Black Levels.

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http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1332412080

After calibration I measured black level to 0.14 cd/m2, which is not very impressive. Unfortunately it is a characteristic of the IPS panel type used in ET5 but it is still much higher than in for example LG’s LW6500 TV that builds on a similar panel. A black color measured to 0.14 cd/m2 is visibly greyish.

Sad, just sad....

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We can all cherry-pick reviews (but yes, reasonably disappointing from Panasonic):

After calibration I measured black level to 0.0 cd/m2, which is fantastic. We have measured the same on previous LG TVs with local dimming and it basically means perfect black depth. This is extremely rewarding in dark movies and games as it provides pictures with fantastic depth and dimension

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1319111213

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Yes, sad.

Sad that you posted again simply to LCD bash.

Now, to balance out your post, read on.

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-2012-tc-l55wt50-led-lcd-hdtv-first-review/7619/#more-7619

"The black level is lower than any 2011 HDTV we tested, being one-half of the best level we tested on a Panasonic VT30 (0.004 ft lamberts). We like to emphasize this was with the LEDs on, not off, as other sets simply shut down the light source

"Three things made this TV stand out from every other LED LCD flat panel we’ve tested to date: the viewing angle, the black level and the signal processing. No matter if we stood up or sat, viewed straight on or at an angle, the WT50 produced a fine image with no color shift or increase in black level. This is a LCD first, with no need to sit at dead center for the best image. I’d even go so far as to say, in this regard, it made us forget we were watching a LED LCD and not a plasma, which are known for their outstanding viewing angle."

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it made us forget we were watching a LED LCD and not a plasma, which are known for their outstanding viewing angle.

This is a big statement!

Colour shift at angles is the big reason I bought a plasma.

Interestingly, all the CRT TVs they replaced at the MCG for the punters to watch (who can't see the big screens) are LCDs.

IMO the colour shift is some of the worst I've seen.

A very small % of the punters will actually be in a good seating position to not get colour shift.

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You forgot to mention it was a $3000 TV.....

So your point is, that you get what you pay for....?

Didn't we know this already?

Any chance at keeping the LCD bashing to a single thread.

that way it's much easier to ignore.

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So your point is, that you get what you pay for....?

Didn't we know this already?

That suggests that a $1400 46in Samsung is better than the sub $1000 plasma's from Pana and Samsung, but it may not be the case at all.

You gotta love the truth....well not you, but in general!!!

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That suggests that a $1400 46in Samsung is better than the sub $1000 plasma's from Pana and Samsung, but it may not be the case at all.

You gotta love the truth....well not you, but in general!!!

What is most galling is that The Frog continualy criticises LCD yet he apparently has a 5 year old 1366x 768 Panasonic Plasma as his primary display device.

He is delusional in the belief that his 5yo non HD plasma is superior to current LCD .

Talk about a grandstand jockey.

Edited by robertr

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LCD native contrast ratio has not improved significantly is 3 or 4 years, they top out at about 2500:1 for the best Sharp and Samsung/Sony joint venture panels, the rest are worse. Plasma has improved little as over the same period as well but the good ones are still better and quite different in look to LCD due to the picture being created in a completely different way.

The full screen dimming used on most LCD's is pretty much useless, it provides darker blacks that look good in reviews at the expense of an artificially dim image, great if you like watching full black screens, but not very effective with real world content. The dynamic back lighting on my Samsung LCD was so aggravating I got into the service menu and disabled it, blacks are now nowhere near as dark but at least the picture is consistent with the source like it should be and dark scene detail is not lost as it was before.

Local dimming is an improvement over full screen dimming but its no substitute for high native contrast, the lighting cells are far too big on all models to date and there is significant dynamic distortion to contend with as all the pixels in a cell get dimmed when only some are supposed to be. This means the bright pixels in a dimmed cell loose their correct brightness relationship to other cells which is a form of distortion.

Unless high native contrast is available quality will always be compromised and thats something LCD does not have and probably never will.

LCD's look impressive in the showroom and make the Plasma's look dull and lifeless, but in a more normal domestic night time viewing environment when the display needs to be dimmed down for a non fatiguing picture its LCD that looks lifeless and flat.

I can understand the appeal of LCD as many people seem to like very bright TV pictures and LCD does that job best, but when a subtle and much dimmer picture is preferred LCD does not hold up well as far as I am concerned.

The only reason I own an LCD is because it must be viewed in a VERY bright sun room and during the winter months is in direct sunlight, no way a Plasma would cope. But at night I would swap the 240Hz 1080p LCD for a cheap 768p Plasma in a hear beat, even if the blacks on the Plasma where no better. The TV is not viewed close enough for 1080 resolution to be useful and I simply prefer Plasma image quality in non bright environments even a less than best model.

I have never owned a Plasma, but if I needed a new TV for primary viewing in a non bright environmnet I would only consider Plasma at this time. Others no doubt have different needs and preferences so there is no one TV that can be best for everyone. Plasma and LCD are quite different animals so you pay your cash and you make you choice.

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What is most galling is that The Frog continualy criticises LCD yet he apparently has a 5 year old 1366x 768 Panasonic Plasma as his primary display device.

He is delusional in the belief that his 5yo non HD plasma is superior to current LCD .

Talk about a grandstand jockey.

Owen did a great job of placing your post in context, but I'll also say that I have no motion blur issues, ZERO screen uniformity problem, and even FTA's worst HD looks very good, though for example even The Soprano's at 10mbps was packed with depth and colour compared to my 1080p LCD which whilst looking sharper, was quite 2D looking.

Sorry if you bought a 3-4k TV loaded with issues.

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Sorry if you bought a 3-4k TV loaded with issues.

[/quote/]

Yeah, that's me. Paid $3450 about 3 years ago, nothing but trouble.

Flickering everywhere.

Dirty whites.

Rising blacks.

Buzzing.

Motion judder.

Phosphor smearing.

....I won't ever touch a Panasonic plasma again.

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It's 2012 champ, get with the program.

Very observant of you.

My father-in-law's brand new VT65 cost him nearly 4 grand. And hey, it buzzes, it flickers, it has dirty whites....and it's barely 3 months old.

Get with the program, "champ".

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I'm an LCD owner and no Panasonic fan, but I would take a Panasonic Plasma over ANY LCD that I have ever seen, no question.

The 3D Panasonic's are prone to flicker if run too bright and "dirty whites" are also a by product of running a Plasma too bright.

Running a Plasma at the correct contrast setting does not result in problematic flicker to my eyes or dirty whites, especially if its a Samsung which have less flicker and brighter whites. I have yet to see an LCD provide an image I would want to watch at any setting, especially in a dark room.

Edited by Owen

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FFS not another one of these threads!

Oh Kermit... :rolleyes:

JSmith :ninja:

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I must confess that I have no idea what the reference to dirty whites mean!

I have a new 3D Panasonic 55" plasma and a new 3d Sony 55" Bravia LED LCD and I am surprised at how good LCD TVs have become. Both my new TVs produce stunning pictures but it does take some time to get the colour temperature brightness and contrast set to suit the room's ambient light. Bu then not all broadcast content has the same gamma.

Both are let down in some respects by the clumsy internet interface and poor content but at least the little Apple TV box is a blessing, what a fantastic little device, I can highly recommend Apple TV in lieu of an internet capable TV.

It is hard to imagine that we used to watch old fashioned analogue CRT TVs. What a vast improvement plasmas and LCD TVs are these days! :)

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I'm an LCD owner and no Panasonic fan, but I would take a Panasonic Plasma over ANY LCD that I have ever seen, no question.

The 3D Panasonic's are prone to flicker if run too bright and "dirty whites" are also a by product of running a Plasma too bright.

2011 or 2012...?

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I haven't seen any 2012 models yet, but since Plasma and LCD create an image in completely different ways and the technology has not changed in 2012, I dont expect the situation will change.

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I gave my one year old LCD - 42" BigW - to my son when he moved out and just for a change bought a 50" Full HD Pana Plasma.

As far as black levels go, when you switch it to a blank screen it still looks greyish compared to the piano black bezel, there's still a bit of a glow going on there.

All in all I'm not very impressed, with 2 of us we don't really benefit from big viewing angles and the colours are very poor in daylight with all that horrible reflection. During the day we have to close all the curtains and set the colour mode to vivid to even see what's going on. Edit: when we go round to SWMBO's sisters and see their 47" LCD in action I know what the term "buyer's remorse" actually refers to :no:

If I can find a willing relly who can fit the thing in their lounge room, I'll go back to LCD and upgrade to a good name brand 47" LED. I expect if the dollar holds we could get a 50" for the same price next year.

Edited by BribieG

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