micko_ja and other Canberrans,

Black Mountain transmitters cover most of Canberra and the Southern Tablelands.

Analog:
ABC channel 9 Southern Cross channel 7 are both on VHF and the antenna is vertical.
SBS channel 28, WIN channel 31 and Prime channel 34 is UHF band 4 and the antenna is horizontal.

Digital:
ABC channel 9A, Southern Cross channel 6, WIN channel 11, Prime channel 12 are on VHF and the antenna is vertical.
SBS channel 30 is UHF band 4 and the antenna is horizontal.

Tuggeranong Hill
Analog:
ABC 60, SBS 54, Southern Cross 63, WIN 66 and Prime 69 are all UHF band 5 and the antenna is horizontal.
Digital:
SBS 57, ABC 59, Southern Cross 62, Prime 68 and WIN 65 are all UHF band 5 and the antenna is horizontal.

Mt Taylor Weston Creek/Woden
Analog:
ABC 55, SBS 58, WIN 61, Prime 64 and Southern Cross 67 are all UHF band 5 and the antenna is horizontal.
Digital:
SBS 57, ABC 59 are all UHF band 5 and the antenna is horizontal.

Note:
Digital TV transmits a Logical Channel Number. This means that after the channel search on installation has been performed displaying some of the digital channels above the following user channel numbers will be shown.
Example If the digital receiver is tuned to channel 9A from Black Mountain or channel 59 from Tuggeranong Hill or Mt Taylor the viewer will still select from channels 2, 20, 22, 23.
For other stations a similar pattern happens but varies thus
SBS 3#
Southern Cross 5#
Prime 6#
WIN 8#

Antenna Selection
Black Mountain, virtually none of Canberra is in the fringe area
Tuggeranong & Weston Creek/Woden suburbs

Coverage Areas
Black Mountain
Tuggeranong
Weston Creek/Woden

micko_ja, the antenna you have bought should be pointed at Mt Taylor and not Black Mountain. The advice is correct.

AlanH

Thanks, I think I will get a VHF/UHF combo though and point it at Black Mountain.

Really appreciate your help with this.

Mick

Mick,
Use one from the list in the link C34 as mentioned above. Mt Taylor would have been better is the commercials had installed their translators.
AlanH

I was simply going to take the other one back. I have been told lots and lots of contradictory stories in the last few days.

I can get direct line of sight to Black Mountain and Mount Taylor....which is better?

To make things even more complicated, I have recently purchased PlayTV (a PS3 adapter) to record TV shows (PVR). I think at this stage this device only picks up VHF channels (i.e. I currently cannot get SBS at all, I can get all others).

I am super confused....

I know you have installed a combo antenna now and thankfully you asked before following other peoples advice. For the benifit of those that were not previ to our pm's. In Canberra if you have line of site to Telstra Tower, use it. Any installer working here would be able to tell you that. To recomend Mt Taylor over Telstra Tower in a line of site siduation is both misleading and totally incorrect.
Gadget

Hi all, after some advice about reception in Banks. I bought one of these http://www.matchmaster.com.au/_product_36962/02MM-MDU43 a few weeks ago at dse. I was going to buy the catalogue special which included cable and connectors etc for about 80 bucks but the old bloke in the shop said the antenna was not suitable for down south. Long story short, he sold me this one plus all 20m cable, connectors wall plate and pole for 92$ so i was happy.
Now i get perfect picture (bravia lcd), 1.8km clear view of mt tugg pointing straight at it, but am picking up some elect noise. I have changed all f type connectors again, cable run is about 12m - it does run down the same noggin as the power for tv etc, could this be the problem? Wifes blender and a few lighswitches are the offending appliances.

Any advice appreciated

nudgilly,
The antenna cable should be kept away from power wiring and were it has to cross it it should be done at right angles.

AlanH

nudgilly,
Presumably the cable you got from DSE is good quality, quad shielded cable? They do sell it, and have pre-made leads using it. Just checking though.

You appear to be getting impulse interference coming through on your reception. The source(s) of this noise are things like the electrical contacts in the light switch, the commutators on the motor, the motor switch contacts etc.
There are typically two main methods through which this interference occurs. One is via radiated airborne noise that the antenna picks up as part of it's reception. The other is via the radiated airborne noise leaking/coupling into the signal distribution system. This consists of the cabling, connectors, splitters, amplifiers etc.

Another possible method is via mains-borne electrical interference. This would be in the form of 'transients' travelling on the normal voltage, and somehow getting through the various equipment power supplies and causing a 'glitch' to the receiver (STB, TV, PVR etc.). With most units having reasonable filtering, and bearing in mind that we are not talking about lightning strikes in this situation, I don't think mains-borne interference is as likely. The size of the transients isn't that large in any case, if it were it could cause insulation failure and many other problems.

It's interesting that you appear to have this quite noticeably even though you have a UHF antenna. Impulse interference tends to more commonly affect installations that receive on VHF. Their antennas are larger, for a start. More metal up there.

Running power cables next to signal cables should be avoided, but practically this has to happen in many cases. The general rule as noted is to keep clear, and cross at right angles if you have to.
But what is 'clear'? Keeping a few inches separation should be sufficient, even better if they don't run parallel for too far. Certainly don't have them neatly tied together with the cables in a bundle.


There are some Guide docs in my signature below, these talk about some of the key aspects of getting reliable digital reception.
You need to have sufficient 'margin' of signal strength and quality to keep you above the point at which digital errors become too great for the receiver to cope.

Thanks charlesc, excellent guide docs.
Yes i have quad shield cable & lead. A question i forgot to ask was, is my antenna the correct one? like any good impulse shopper i did all my research after i bought the thing... it works so it must be ok
Had rabbit ears before the roof mount and had no interferance at all - only wouldn't pick up abc or sbs every other day.
I might try running the co-ax further away from the power, means another hole in the wall and a blanking plate but i can live with that.
If that fails i might need to get a tech (gadget ) out to measure the signal?? i would think being so close to the transmitter signal strength shouldn't be a problem..
The interferance isn't major, but enough to give me the sh#@s, gotta be fixed.

Can you run a temporary cable from the antenna to the receiver, rather than just make wall penetrations without knowing if it will help.

Local knowledge is a great thing. As is a good meter and knowing how to use it.
I'm sure someone like Gadget could readily advise about the antenna.

The symptom of too much signal can sometimes be similar to not enough, where the picture breaks up and the receiver may display 'no signal'. I know this isn't strictly what you have here. But if you really are quite close to the transmitters, with a reasonable sized antenna, and only one outlet, then maybe you are driving your receiver too hard.
If rabbit ears worked fairly well before, you must have quite a strong signal.

You can get in-line attenuators from places like Jaycar and DSE. Perhaps get a couple, say 6dB, 9dB, and put them in series with the antenna cable. See what happens.
A strong signal should give you a good margin of signal strength, and impulse interference ought to be unlikely in this situation. But maybe if your receiver is being overloaded, other impluses may cause it further trouble. Receivers do perform differently.

something like these? http://www.youprice.com.au/products/CHANNE...0-362598-8.html
Am i correct in saying they reduce the signal?
I should have enough co-ax to run a temp line from antenna down through a window to tv, worth a try

That's the type. F-connector versions, those are.
If that's what you have on your cables now, good.

They do reduce the signal. 3dB halves the power. This will give a reduction of 6dBuV in the voltage. So if you get a couple of 3dB and 6dB, you can play around with them.

Yes, try the temp hook-up. See what that does.

The ones from Jaycar are $10 each, not $50 for 10, if you care.

nudgilly, you weren't thinking of buying that pack, were you?
I took it as an example pic of what they looked like.


Buy just the ones you want at places like Jaycar and DSE, as mentioned before.

not buying the pack, just an example pic.

nudgilly

Let's go back a few steps.
The antenna you have is a wideband UHF, it receives channels 21 to 69. My recommendation is a band 5 it only receives channels 38 to 69. 01BUX185 is what my guys use.
Having said that, what you have will do the job, it just won't perform as well. But honestly you would probably only see the difference on a field strength meter, especially towards the top end of the spectrum.
Assuming you have used crimp F type connectors and terminated them correctly, have you pinched them tight with a 11mm spanner?
Keep your cables away from power.
Retune your STB/TV only after doing a default/factory reset.
You mentioned that you were using rabbit ears, in most cases these indoor antennae pick up Telstra Tower due to it being a much stronger signal, and the very nature of rabbit ears is to go for VHF over high band UHF.
The STB/TV will pickup whatever it can in an auto tune mode, once it has the Telstra Tower channels it often ignores the Tugg Hill ones. This is a very common oversight here in Canberra with many southsiders falling into the trap, a few so called installers as well.
I doubt you have too much signal as Tugg Hill translator is not that strong, if you were northside looking at Telstra Tower then yes, but not in your case.
If you have localized the impulse noise to when light switches or electrical appliances are used then your trouble is more likely to be inside rather than out.
Poor quality signal from the antenna (not strength but quality, MER, BER, ERRORS in the data) will create problems, the poorer the quality the less likely it can overcome the affects of impulse noise. (margin, cliff edge).
Yes we can help, but try my suggestions and see how you go. Worst case, we have to visit to see what's going on but there's still a lot for you to do before then.
Let me know how things go.
Gadget

Crikey, I better double the price of mine.

Thanks gadget. So the antenna is ok but not the best, my bad . Im gonna re do all the connectors again to be sure.
With tuning, is it worth doing a manual tune? I've just reset and retuned and most channels are duplicated. How many channels should i receive down here? clearly i have limited knowledge in this field and am happy to be guided by the experts

Reset and manual tune 57, 59, 62, 65, 68.

I have the same issue in Gordon where I also get Black Mountain as well as Tugg Hill. Sometimes its useful when Tugg Hill goes off-air.

A question to Gadget, what are the acceptable signal strength and quality readings we should be getting with our TV reception?

Well, to just jump in and make a quick comment in passing...
That would be rather dependant on what is being used to measure the signal strength and signal quality.

Pro meters can and do measure reliable, repeatable, calibrated levels.

The 'metering' included in most digital receivers (STBs, PVRs, digital TVs) don't. And their results can differ quite wildly, and inconsistently. even between units, let alone models and different brands.
Even taking their 'relative' readings between channels can sometimes be misleading, as it's not unusual to find them measuring differently depending on what sort of signal impairment is happening.

This info is incorrect. WIN is 65 and Prime is 68 from Tuggeranong Hill according to ACMA listings

dsc,
Typo from the transmitter list in Get the Best Reception, ACT and read the links.
Typo in the first post fixed.

AlanH

(Jeez I hate thread hijacking. But dtv wouldn't let me start a new post..)

I'm also after some opinions on a canberra installation from anyone willing to share their thoughts.

I currently use bunny ears for digital reception, and it's mostly fine, other than some light switch interference. In the course of planning some network cables, I figured I might as well also run some quad coax cable to get the bunny ears out of sight - and up in the roof. I assume they'll work similarly in the roof as they do down low (tile roof, no metallic sheeting) - although I do take note of previous comments that water on tile can potentially degrade the signal.

So - if i'm going to the trouble of running the cable, i figure for $70 I can get a cheap enough (7 element , band 3-5, DigiMatch) from Jaycar and use that in the roof.

Now i'm in Dunlop (Jarramlee Park) - and there's possibly a little blocking from Macregor Hill to Black mountain as I can't see Telstra Tower with my eyes from the ground. But a terrain profile does indicate marginal clearance (line of sight + fresnel) from 3 metre height. It's all a bit close, but I'm only 11 km away.

So what I'm really after from you is your gut feelings on whether this will 'work'. Yes I know, only a signal meter can tell, there's many ways to interpret what 'work' means, and I should get someone to look at it for me if I want to be sure. But I'm keen on DIY and hence would just like to know what peoples thoughts are - perhaps it's a clear cut "she'll be right mate" situation.

Cheers.

Andy,
Do not buy any antennas from Jaycar and the like. They are not suited to Black Mountain

Read Get the Best Reception, ACT and read the links.

AlanH

Andy,
When you sign up to the forum, in the info you read and agree to there is apparently info that details that you need more than 5 posts to begin a new topic, or use the (Personal Message) PM facility.

There is info inmy sig below.

Alan- it's odd that Jaycar would sell antennas that can't be used for the surrounding areas. Out of interest - what is the deficiency of the Jaycar antennas? The digimatch 7 element one says it covers channels 6-12 and 28-69, and can be cross polarised between the VHF and UHF elements. The only thing I can see is it would be better to have more tightly tuned antenna. Nevertheless I would have expected it to be fine 11 km from the tower.

Yes I read the 'best reception' pages but they don't really answer the specific question I was asking.


Charlesc - thanks for the info - that makes sense. I signed up probably 2 years ago and do not remember what the terms were. In an attempt to find out the rules I used the search feature but received a similar 'permission denied' error, which I found odd. (Perhaps I need more than 5 posts to search??!).


Web site problems aside, from what I have read on this site I managed to piece together the main requirements - i.e. cross polarised, channels 6-12 and 30. Project Lighting in belconnen had a digitek antenna for under $70 that seemed to fit the bill and look slightly better than the jaycar one (covering only 6-12 and 28-50). Without any 'gut feeling' responses, I used my own and went ahead with my project. After wiring it up with RG6 and hanging it in the attic my reception seems great. What a battle getting wires where you want them! I do not envy those people doing it as a living. Even the old analogue channels that used to haunt me with ghosting now come up crisp. Very happy with the results. And of course my wife is happy with the reduced antenna clutter in the lounge room.

Cheers to dtvforum and the users for holding the info that I needed.

Hi Andy, I'm glad you seem to have it sorted out.

It looks like you're getting away with mounting the antenna in the attic. That's not ideal, as reception signals are absorbed by the roof material, there are local reflections and potentially a noisy electrical environment.
But if it's working for you at the moment, that's good.
At least you know there's the possibility of improving reception by putting the antenna outside if need be.