Guys,

After some info on which models play SACD - I thaught i read something/saw a chart sometime that spoke of the newer ones (cheaper ones) sold now dont play sacd?

Also any of them got analogue 5.1 or 7.1 pre-outs ?

Cheers,
Bitey

Hey Bites

Here you go

Cheers

Helpey

Thanks - so looks like all the new 'bundled' ps3's dont have SACD capability.

Cheers,
Lazey

From the ps3 faq site PS3 FAQ's

What is the difference between the new 80GB model and the old 60GB model?

Both solutions include Blu-ray Disc™ the latest in high-definition* video, Bluetooth, 1080p video, HDMI**, and the advanced microprocessor, the Cell Broadband Engine™. The difference between them, however, is that the 80GB system no longer includes Memory Stick/SD/CompactFlash slots, and it only has 2 USB ports instead of four. Also, the new model has a 80GB hard disk drive (HDD), whereas the old 60GB model came with a 60GB HDD. Finally, PS2 game compatibility and Super Audio CD compatibility have also been removed from the new 80GB model.

PS3s with SACD capability haven't been sold in Australia for nearly a year and a half now. Sadly.

Still, there's always the Pioneer DV-610A - at ~$200, if you buy a PS3 at the new going rate ($700) and one of those, you're still $100 better off than buying one of the SACD-capable PS3 consoles at the then-going rate ($1000)

Yeah, but I wouldn't rate the audio quality on the 610 as being up to the task. In fact a regular CD on a cambridge 640c will sound better than an SACD on a pioneer 610.

Well that depends on how you plan to play that SACD back. Liner PCM or DSD via HDMI aren't affected by the 610AV's rather average output stage.

And the Cambridge 640c costs a little more than the 610AV. More than four times as much, actually...

No you can't do analogue preouts. It's either optical (I think) or HDMI

Yes and SACD's cost alot more than than CD's so a better CD player (which can play a lot more titles) would still be better value than a rubbish SACD player. Can the 610 even do proper DSD? Given Bitey expressed a desire for analog out I'm guessing thats how he wants to hook it up, thus the poor D/A of the 610 is very relevant.

I've got one which playbacks SACDs..
The PS3 actually converts the DSD signal to 176/24 PCM
For audio playback, I prefer the standalone because of the PS3 fan noise (I'm used to a quiet mechanism)
The analog output is only stereo via a AV MULTI OUT connector.
http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en...udiooutput.html

you do notice the difference between the playback of SACDs and CDs on the PS3..
but I agree with momaw in that it would be better to get a decent player that actually converts the DSD signal to analog, not DSD—>PCM—>analog
For best results, you really need an amplifier that handles the improved bandwidth and dynamic range as well.
Shame Sony never released the SCD-XA5400ES in this country

Depends on your reasons for wanting SACD. For me, aside from the higher audio quality overall, it's most importantly the multichannel mixes of albums, which in most cases aren't available anywhere else.



Yes.



It does, of course, depend what you mean by "poor". I don't know whether or not Bitey's a hard-core audiophile, but if not he may well be perfectly happy with the analogue outs of the 610AV (which, to my ears, are a great improvement over the 676 I used previously).

Ironically I myself am finding the results better by NOT sending DSD to my receiver (Sony 5400ES) but instead having the 610AV do the PCM conversion on board and send it to the Sony for playback. The DSD decoder on the 5400ES has a faint but audible noise floor, believe it or not (and reportedly is just decoding to PCM anyway).

Thanks for all the replies guys..

Its actuall for a family member who's current sacd player (yamaha 1500 something or other) is giving him a dose of the green-apple-splatters... and I was looking for something that would do mkv/bluray, dvd, sacd and regular cd playback thats networkable seems the PS3 almost fit the bill.. hes got an older denon amp with no hdmi - 7.1 analogue ins (just the 1 set) tho hence wanting the analogue out..

Sounds like its gunna be ugly

PS: Im no audiophile - cant afford it - and have a crappy pioneer 676a (or something) sacd cdplayer - sacds on it however souind better than my cd player (or the htpc) so its staying - most of the time im happy with flac!

Cheers,
Envey

ive got a 60GB PS3 and have in the past used it for SACD (multi channel only, as i used a Sony SACD player for stereo) and found it did a perfectly fine job.

yes it only outputs PCM (not DSD), but i think thats ideal for multi-channel, as you can then apply post processing, such as room correction, bass management etc. you cant do this with DSD.

imo, to be able to really hear the difference between DSD->analogue vs DSD->PCM->analogue, you need to be feeding a decent 2ch amp, rather than an AVR (assuming your speakers and source are also up to the task).

this of course is only referring to the stereo tracks, for multi-channel, im not convinced there is any benefit in DSD direct at all, although i can think of others around here that would disagree.

Interesting you say that as I have found sending DSD from the oppo also does not sound as good as using the analgoue and neither sounded better than a CD on the cambridge (only a 540c at that). Even did some blind tests with some mates and they couldn't pick the dif between SACD/DVD-A and CD. As a result I just stick to CD's these days (that and very few of my favourite bands put out hd audio). Personally, I've found a lot of the multi-channel remixes to be "gimmicky". The only multi-channel mix of a song I really felt improved the song was the DVD-A multi-channel remix of REM's Leave. Only then because I think the song was intended to assult from all sides.

Have any albums been specifically designed (from the start) to be multi-channel? Or are they all just remix's of the original 2 channel?

I have not listen to many multichannel mixes but I do like the later "boxed set" quadraphonic remix of Tubular Bells


http://www.amarok.ommadawn.net/mike/discog/tubularbells.htm

Never ceases to amaze me how a topic about PS3 and SACD... converts... or is bastardised into one about Cambride 640c and CD... I wonder who might own that combo... hmmmmm.....

Anyway... I own the 60GB PS3 with SACD playback and the Pio 610 AV... the latter is a superb SACD player... I also own an original Sony XB940 SACD player and briefly owned the ES model... and sold it when it wasn't doing much more for me than the 940.

I've compared all 3 and the 610 is better than the PS3 when DSD direct to my Yamaha 3900 is done. When the analogue is used the PS3 is better to my ears via HDMI PCM... but only just...

The 610AV is also a great DVD upscaler....

But ignore all that and get a Cambridge 640c and an Oppo 683.... that's the shot...

Why is my opinion not valid? Thats a pretty rude post. I thought the goal was the best audio option?

Edit: I have just gone through a search on my post history to confirm what I thought, and that is that I have never previous to this thread suggested a cambridge CD player over an SACD player. I don't know what your problem is. I think an apology is in order for that post of yours.

Why the unpleasantness guys? Phreek, are you referring to the oppo DV-983H (683?) momaw has? If so, that player is not the best oppo for SACD. The DV-980H has direct DSD (lacking in the other oppo models) and is better suited to the job (and has garnered good reviews in this regard). I only commented as to my ear's, I can get as good audio from a well built mid-range CD player. As I don't find the multi-channel mixes to be of much quality (and that is a personal preference) the cheaper CD's and better ranger suits me fine. I do occasionally pick up a high definition audio disc, but that is really just me hoping to hear more from the disc than my setup allows. Perhaps I should invest in a higher quality SACD player, but with such a small range of SACD's that appeal to me I don't see much value in it. It could also be the better DACs in my CD player than I think are in my AVR. Perhaps if, as Dissociative suggested above, I run a 2 channel amp for the audio (CD and SACD) I might get more from my small SACD collection. That may be a better investment. Any thoughts from the experts?

I have one whole SACD, Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms, which I also have on CD.

I've played the SACD on both the PS3 (when I had it) and my Oppo 983 and compared the two to CD playback on my Cambridge 640c (yes I too have that combo) and I have to say that, yes it was cool to have it playing in multichannel sound but I also prefer the audio quality of the CD through the 640c to the SACD through either the PS3 or the Oppo.

Which is the reason I haven't really bothered to buy any more SACD's.

There are plenty of examples of multichannel mixes that aren't "gimmicky", and even a few that ARE gimmicky that work really well (a good example of the latter is the DVD-A of Britney Spears' "In The Zone", a playful enough album sound-wise in stereo but wildly inventive in multichannel - mixed, as it was, from some 250+ tracks!)

The REM multichannel mixes are generally very good and not too showy; "Belong" off Out Of Time is especially good.

And all of the Depeche Mode multichannel mixes on SACD are superbly done and completely in keeping with the original albums' intentions (though the occasional sonic change is made which is a bit annoying).

David Bridie's "Act Of Free Choice" SACD (long deleted, it was once available direct from his management in Melbourne for $20!) contains some excellent 5.1 mixes of the album's songs, originally done for a planned DVD video release. One of the only - if not THE only - HD multichannel mixes done right here in Australia, it's subtle and intelligently mixed. Shame about the tape dropouts on the stereo version on one track, though, which proves that whoever mastered this early SACD never bothered to actually check it

Peter Gabriel's "Up" is stunning in multichannel (and a LOT better than the 5.1 remixes done by an idiot for his video-clip compilation on DVD).

Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds in multichannel (easily found, the standard release is a SACD) is gobsmackingly good - literally months were spent mixing the thing with the finesse of a movie soundtrack. Multichannel suits that record *perfectly*.

Simple Minds' "New Gold Dream" on DVD-Audio (not the stereo-only SACD) is notable for the fact that the edits done on the original mixes for release are not done here - several tracks are longer. And the guy that did the 5.1 mix also took it upon himself to remix it for stereo as well (which is sacrilege, but ah well )

There's many more.



You mean the original multitrack recording

Yes, there have been some. Bjork's "Vespertine" and "Medulla" were, for example.

Bobalong, I've got the 980 passing dsd into a denon 3808. To my ears in my room with my setup (etc) that sounds the best. You can trawl gazillions of reviews and forums on the net of people using the 980 hooked up to a range of receivers and it would be fair to say that some prefer the oppo passing analogue, others with the oppo passing pcm and yet others by using dsd. Each to their own and enjoy. On that note what avr are you passing sacd to?

As for decent quality multi channel sacd....roxy music avalon, jeff wayne's war of theworlds, steely dan gaucho, eric clapton slowhand, pink floyd DSOTM are all well worth having alisten to. Having said that I can name plenty that are very ordinary too

blairy

Hi Kazz

I also only have a couple of SACDs (which I play in stereo), but I am more interested in 2 channel via CD & vinyl.

IME, SACD isn't really worthwhile unless you get into serious SACD capable hardware.

IMO multi channel audio-only is parse'.

Popcorn anyone?

Hi HP

Yep agreed and I have no wish to spend up big on an SACD player.

Hope this helps Bitey

http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/Gefen-H...er-p-17453.html

Hmm interesting piece of kit - thanks

Kinda pricey tho ;-)

Cheers,
Bitey

Can't quite let this one slide thru to the keeper, sorry. Parse is to describe grammatically a word in context hence the wondrous expression 'parse it how you will'. I presume Mr HP intends to say passe (with the little thingy over the e) meaning behind the times; out of date, archaic, past ones prime (giving us another great expression 'that cheese is a little passe.')

Now it's probably my weird sense of humour, but branding SACD as passe and at the same time preferring CD and vinyl (technology that could be descibed as a lot further behind the times let''s say) is wondrously ironic

Sorry Mr HP and yes I still enjoy vinyl and would love a separate CD player.

On a serious note, you mention serious SACD capable hardware. Prior to going down that path you need to set up your room and speakers correctly for SACD and DVD-A. Speaker layout is different for SACD/DVD-A when compared to movie surround sound tracks. For SACD/DVD-A all five speakers should be the same. (Most home theatres utilise smaller speakers for the surrounds.) Seating/listening position should be in the middle of the speakers or the same distance from all speakers. In my setup all speakers are close enough to the same (cuz I'm not throwing 'em out and starting again) and for SACD/DVD-A lsitening sessions; you got it, yes I move the chair into the middle of the room and the sound is very good indeed.

If you've ever wondered why some AVR's have Surround A and Surround B capabilities, it's (in part) to cater for SACD/DVD-A enthusiasts who have one set of surrounds for movies and another set of speakers (same as fronts) for hirez multi-channel music.

Now to find that cheese before it becomes a little passe

blairy

I'm looking forward to the day they release a multi-channel version of Pink Floyd's The Wall
http://www.pinkfloydz.com/darksidesandv.htm