hi guys,

I have recently purchased a new Full HD Philips 42inch LCD TV. And now my room mate wants to get something to record racing as well as anythign else on tv. now he only wants to really spend $200 to $300.

I assume a recorders plug from Antenna to Recorder to TV.

Now my problem is if he gets a cheap recorder will this effect my LCD tv reception? or shouldn't it matter, can anyone think of any other problems it might face.
Personally i dont need a recorder and i have no problem with him getting a cheap one and using it as long as it doesn't effect the tv.

Also if cheap is alright what are some good cheap ones to look at

thanks

If you want a cheap PVR then the Supernet/Wintel ones would probably suit. I've had an 80GB Supernet for years with no problems although a few people have had Ch7 locking up on record. You can get these cheap on eBay, some with 160gb and twin tuner. They wont effect your tv as the antenna just passes through. If you want DVD recording too then spend the extra and go for the panasonic DMR-EX75/85. I have one of these too and their brilliant. None of these though will provide 1080P but they'll still look great on your TV and provide the facility to record.

WHY HAVE YOU CREATED TWO IDENTICAL THREADS ON THE SAME SUBJECT?
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=65874
Ask a mod to delete one please.

I dare say the servers were responding real slow again so he clicked a few times resulting in three threads I believe. We've all double posted at one time or another

yeah! I thought of that after posting.

I agree, that is the cheapest option. The Wintal I had was 100% reliable and the only downside to me was the fiddly remote but I transferred codes to a Universal so it did not matter. Anyway owners report you get used to it. It is a very basic PVR and is limited to 12 timer settings & 80 gb looks small compared to most having 250 gb these days but 80gb is fine is you do not hoard recordings.

John

Hi guys sorry i didn't realise it was a double thread. only just got back on the internet then.

As its my housemate buying it my main concern really is affecting my LCD reception. from your posts i understand that:

as long as its a digital component if the antenna feeds through the component then the tv there is only a slight chance of the signal being worse off, and if this happens i can either get a amplifier or splitter

You are using some confusing terminology. I suggest you at least read through the first couple of sections on the sticky at http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=29072

That said, you need have no worry about daisy chaining the aerial through several items, finishing up at the TV. You could be even worse off using a splitter as that would reduce the RF signal strength to items whereas it is kept at a high level if fed in to say a PVR and then taken out from that unit.

The term component usually refers to a type of video link - see the sticky. I see you mean to use it to refer to the PVR etc which I refer to as an item - less confusing.

John

It doesn't have to be digital. You could hook up an analogue device such as a VCR then passthrough the antenna signal to the TV. The TV still recieves a FTA signal as if the VCR is there or not.

Yes some people have the idea that digital items "suck out" the signal!!!!!

John

Sorry, but I'm one of them. Plug an aerial into anything and it will decrease the signal strength passed onto the next box. (Otherwise you're suggesting I could hook up 10 PVRs and get good reception out of them all?). If the signal strength is 'decent' then you'll have no adverse affects (splitting or daisy chaining) but if you start out a bit dodgy then the likely hood is you won't be able to support a second / third / fourth unit without some sort of amplification.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

I agree with you PG, but for most purposes, 2-3 devices would be the maximum that most installations would have. In this instance the OP is only looking at two devices, so I would say that it would be most likely that the signal through a DVDR to the TV should be fine....unless as you say he has a really borderline signal to begin with.

Well PG we must disagree. We have a VERY borderline signal here but the daisy chain is ok and methinks there is a powered splitting going on in the boxes. SO, IMHO, daisy chaining is more effective than passive splitting.

But you misinterpret anyway. What I was meaning was that some people think the RF signal carrying digital is somehow stripped of its digital signal. It might be a reduced signal strength in some cases but the digital carrier is no different.

But then maybe I misunderstand?

John

I think you'll find that's more luck than design John. The nature of digital does make it less obvious, as with analogue you can tend to see a degradation in PQ while digital will show 100% (until it doesn't).

In the Toppy 5000 for instance with its small loop cable, this is essentially daisy chaining the tuners and there were a number of users that found one tuner had good signal strength and the other much less so. Those users tended to get a splitter (usually powered) to send an equal signal to each tuner (ie they got rid of the loop cable).

Splitting versus Daisy chaining can be a 'do what works' process. Daisy chaining is the simplest option but many people can find that the last box on the chain is suffering. So if you've got lots of equipment taking in a signal then its usually best to split the signal (and boost it) before sending the same strong signal to each component in turn.

Some antenna out plugs do in fact remove the digital signal but this is by design as they modulate the signal and send it out at a specific frequency so you can tune your VCR or TV to that particular frequency. Again the Toppy 5000 has two antenna out plugs - one is the 'pass through' of the original signal (weaker in strength but unaltered in nature) while the other is just an analogue signal of the current channel output at a specific frequency.

When you think about it you can't just hook up dozens of boxes and get A1 reception in all. Each box has a certain 'resistance' which reduces the input signal somewhat. How much is up to the boxes, and connections and cables used - Its like pipe mechanics, the longer the pipe the more you get flow losses until the flow stops all together.

If your setup does the job then I'd count you more lucky than anything. You mention you've got a VERY borderline signal where you are. Have you ever considered the signal might be fine, its just that you're daisy chaining lots of equipment together that's causing the problem?

Regards

Peter Gillespie

NB I might ask reception expert AlanH to comment as I'm definately no guru in this area

No question about the signal strength here - it has been tested many times with a meter. However I do use a powered splitter in one situation but "get away" with daisy chaining in another.

But what is just as important as strength is quality. Amplifying can improve signal strength but unless the quality is there for digital, the picture can break up.

No one is suggesting the ridiculous scenario of dozens of items daisy chained, but if there is a reasonable signal I see no problem with daisy chaining 3 items and consider a splitter a waste of effort.

And the RF connections designed to send signals in this form are different "pass through" connections but rarely appear on newer items - bit ridiculous in the digital area anyway.

But as I said earlier, some people have the quaint idea that the first item "sucks out" the digital signal so the next item will not work.

I just talked to Jimmy at iTopfield and he confirmed there is no amplification involved but the loss is only 5%. With a passive splitter the signal is halved so you are obviously better off daisy chaining unless using a powered splitter and that would only be needed in a VERY borderline situation even worse than the one here.

Bottom line, forget about splitters and be content to daisy chain.

I rest my case.

John

Then we essentially concur,

However every antenna outlet you have in a household is effectively a passive splitter receiving x% of the aerial signal. So 3 outlets gives you 1/3 strength to each and if you put a splitter on that outlet then its down to 1/6 to each item. This can still be fine (esp. for digital) but as you say pass though can definately be a better bet.

If daisy chaining fails then powered splitting is the next best approach.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

All,
Methods of Connection
Between devices;
In order of quality (best to worse)
HDMI Picture and sound on one cable, for any signal from highest quality down to Standard Definition digital
Component 5 cables of red, green, blue connectors for picture and white for left and red for right sound.

Analog only Not capable of High Definition

S Video 4 pin connector for picture and white for left and red for right sound. Australian, NZ, Europe = PAL, America & Japan NTSC
Composite A single yellow connector for picture, and white for left and red for right sound. Australian, NZ, Europe = PAL, America & Japan NTSC

All of the above methods are preferable to using an antenna connector. Note HDMI cables are not supplied with equipment, the other equipment it may be supplied.

So if the recording device is near the TV set use one of the above methods of connection. To see the program you will need to select an AV input.

If the recording device, whether it be a Personal Video Recorder (Hard Disk Recorder) or a Video Cassette Recorder contains a receiver then feed the antenna signal into the reccording device first. Then connect its RF output to the antenna input of the TV.

This means you can watch one program as selected on the TV and record a different program. The other possibility using a PVR is that if it contains 2 tuners, you can record using one and and view and/or record with the other. You cannot do this with a video cassette recorder.

Please note that the connection between the antenna input and the RF output is not just a wire. Quite often it contains a small amplifier. This can overload if the signal from the antenna is too strong. The recorded signal can be ok.

If the recorder and its associated TV is in a different location(s) then a splitter should be used. It is true that if you split to a pair of receivers that each will get less than half their previous signal strength. All receivers in TVs and recorders have automatic gain control so this difference will probably not be noticed unless the signal is very weak and/or there is long cables.

"some people have the idea that digital items "suck out" the signal!!!!!". As far as antenna signals are any receiver will reduce the signal strength

Video Cassette Recorders and a very few other Set Top Boxes contain a very low powered transmitter which is fed into the RF out socket to use the antenna cable to feed the TV for display. This produces the worse picture quality.

You can buy 2.4 GHz AV transmitter/receivers which is the easiest way to connect between two different locations in a dwelling. However they are only composite capable.

Remember that SD receivers cannot receive the HD programs.

AlanH

So how is it that I am watching HD sources over component?

I think you meant to say that component won't do 1080p.

I think that line was a header for what went underneath, not above.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

swordfish805,
Component is usually Y, Pr & Pb signals in analog on separate cables. The HDMI connection carries the component signals on a single cable with 3 channels of video for the above signals.

I think you will find that sources will not allow full definition (1920 x 1080 p) unless HDMI is used. This is to keep the HDCP signal in tact. This prevents copying of a program in full definition, you can only copy in SD or 1920 x 1080 i

AlanH

I know that and if you read my post you'll see that I did not refer to 1080p. My point is that you can do 1080i over component - and that counts as HD in my book.