I've been thrust into the market for a new PVR since my old one just died. It was an 18 month old YESS DVB-T2688-PVR. At the time, it seemed very good value at under $200 for a twin tuner 120GB model, and it was a big improvement over VHS tapes, but it was pretty frustrating to use: reliability obviously wasn't very good and the UI was atrociously badly designed, and very buggy. Like so much technology these days, the hardware was impressively capable, but it was completely let down by the software design (or lack thereof) and the implementation.

So, what I'm after is something that is functional, reliable, and most importantly, has been well designed. Basically, I'm after the iPod of PVRs. I'm not fussed about whether it supports HD, and I'd prefer to keep the price as low as possible, but most importantly I'd really like something that is a pleasure to use.

In order of priority:

Must Haves:
"2.0" Twin tuners (at least) with good reception.
Well designed User Interface.
Stable and reliable
Ad skipping
EPG
Not noisy (or excessively power hungry).
Wired or WiFi network connection primarily to play media from a NAS.

Nice to Haves
Quick channel change.
USB connection
HDMI output
HD
replacable SATA drive
Low price.

How much do I need to spend to achieve the "Must Haves", and how much extra to get some or all of the "Nice to Haves"?

Is there a standout model or two for these criteria? I've been reading a lot here and elsewhere, but its really confusing me more than giving me confidence to jump one way or the other, especially with new models constantly being released. Will going to a HD model also give me the best SD solution?

Geez, you don't want much do ya?
That is a lot of features for something that won't come cheap I reckon.

I will put in my two cents and recommend the Beyonwiz though, but it fails several of your criteria.

2.0 Twin Tuners
Pass - although the some people have reported reception issues, mine is mostly fine.

Well designed UI
Fail - While it is not HORRIBLE, many topfield owners have complained since they had well optimised UI's with their TAPs. The unit gets updates every couple of months from user feedback and has been getting better.

Stable and Reliable
Pass/Fail - Depends on the firmware revision at the moment. The last version on their site is quite reliable. A pulled-release (which I am running) has numerous bugs, but added features. They expect the feature filled and bug fixed release at the end of the month.

Ad skipping
Pass - Well you can skip them manually....is that what you mean? It can by no means detect that start and end of ads and just cut them out for you.

EPG
Pass - It handles the broadcast EPG and will download IceTV from the net (with a subscription. They give you a 3 month trial for free)

Not Noisy
Pass - It isn't noisy, but if it is quiet in the room you can hear the harddisk heads seek tracks when it is time shifitng and recording.

Wired/Wireless Networking
Pass - It has both. You can copy recordings to a PC, or stream Video/music of a variety of formats to the PVR. You currently cannot copy external data to the PVR's harddisk.

Quick Channel Change
Depends - How quick? The unit works quick enough for me, but your expectations might be different.

USB
Pass - It will talk to an external storage device connected via USB.

HDMI
Pass - And an essential feature in my book

HD
Pass - Another essential. The HD channels currently show a lot of good programs that don't get aired on the SD channels.

SATA HD
Fail - It has an IDE harddrive, which can be swapped up to a 500Gb unit. The swap will void your warranty. (It comes with a 250Gb onboard)

Low Price
Fail - It aint cheap. You can check the "best-price" threads, but I am pretty sure it is going for $1200 for the top model.

You can get the
DP-S1 - all features including a DVD player
DP-P1 - No wireless networking or DVD drive
SP-H1 - No harddisk, wireless or DVD

The units can all talk to eachother and stream media. I only have one, so I don't know what the limitations are.

You can also buy a USB-connected addon for the DP-S1 and DP-P1 to be able to record from analog sources via s-video.

There are a lot of nuiggly things with these units that will probably annoy you, but my decision was made in terms of features, with a vague hope that they will get round to fixing the bugs eventually.

Another vote for the Beyonwiz as a close match to your requirements, which under December (197) FW is stable and reliable. I would recommend the DP-P1 going for ~$750 over the DP-S1 (~$1000).

However, in the OP you mention iPod like GUI. From what I here/read, the TiVo (soon to be released) would be a close match to this, but not for some of the other requirements.

XOC,

I had a re badged Yess PVR and it was a good cheap introduction to PVRs and now I thoroughly recommend a Topfield. I have a Topfield Black Panther SD PVR and it has been trouble free for near on two years now since I got it. Also it runs 24/7 along with Time Shift enabled and apart from the home power outage last week it has kept chugging along very quietly.

Have a look here on eBay and if a SD 5000/Black panther will suit you they seem to average around $230-240 delivered. Do not consider the TOPFIELD TF4400PVRT 80GB SD Twin Tuner PVR. I had one prior to the BP and it was good but lacks a couple of features the 5000 series has. I can't help you with the average prices on the 7000 HD Toppys but other here can I would guess.
http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search.dl...le=topfield+pvr

More info here...
http://www.topfield-australia.com.au/phpbb...opic.php?t=6107

To the OP, do yourself a favour and read up on the Digitalview DVR-810. Most people on this Forum speak highly of it. It is not a budget model but with the criteria you have specified you may be asking the impossible at a low price!

No networking though with the DVR-810, otherwise a worthy contender

MrQuade, diesel, sail, and holdencaulfield2007 - your input is very much appreciated; it helps enormously.

The Tivo's reported attention to detail in the UI does hold a lot of appeal for me, but the reported limitations on ad-skipping completely discount the benefits for me. No ad-skipping (30/60 second skip at the press of a button rather than FF) is a deal-breaker for me.

The DP-P1 and the 810 sound tempting, but at the moment I'm leaning towards the $240 Topfield SD 5000. I really like the idea of the TAPs, and the price is hard to argue with. I'm willing to spend a lot more to get something that really excels, but I'm not willing to spend $700-$1000 on something that will frustrate me - I'd much rather spend $240 to be frustrated Does the Topfield SD 5000 have an ethernet connection or is the WiFi on the TF6000PVRt the only way to network a Topfield?

My main worry about getting a SD unit is that it wont get the firmware updates attention it might need anymore, now that its 'old tech'. Ideally, it shouldn't need firmware updates I guess, but from reading these forums, it doesn't sound like that is the case yet. Given these machines all seem to be a 'work in progress', I think its important to be part of a thriving community moving forward rather than left behind with outdated technology.

Do the HD units currently do everything the SD units do plus also having the option of going HD, or are they lighter on features and heavier on bugs? - ie is there any downside to using the HD units in SD mode other than the extra cost.
I kind of like the idea of getting a HD PVR ready for upgrading to a HDTV, but it seems the technology isn't fully mature yet. It seems so much more expensive, its only 1080i rather than 1080p, and I don't even have a HD capable TV yet (although I would like to go there soon).

I think the rule of thumb is that you will get the same features for less cash with the SD units. And the SD units have been around longer so the bugs have been mostly ironed by now. The other rule of thumb is that the more features you have, the more can go wrong .

At the risk of sounding like a broken record though, I think you must consider the fact that all of the commercial stations now have their own HD stations which show different shows to what is broadcast on SD/analogue. It depends on the station, but up to about 20% of the programming is either shown at different times of the day, or you get shows that are not shown on SD. That means that if you have an SD PVR, then there are some shows you can never see on FTA (not always a bad thing ).

Of course this may change again next year when the stations are allowed to broadcast another SD channel.

I'd recommend making up your shortlist of PVRs and then visit the manufacturer's/distributor's forums and see what peoples opinions of those specific units are.

Very easy - get the Beyonwiz P1. The going price is now $720.

I don't understand some peole saying that it does not have a good interface. I find it very easy to use.

You actually do not need to replace the disk drive. Just plug in an external USB drive. You can copy recordings to the external drive and also play recordings from it. You just can't record direct to the external drive.

It's just not as intuitive as it could be. My main bug bear is the inconsistency in exiting menus....sometimes it's the "live" command, sometimes "Exit" and sometimes it can be the command that brings uop that particular menu eg "Guide" for the EPG. Other than that, the whole family finds it easy to navigate around and get done what you want to. You get used to it quite quickly, but as I said, it's just not as intuitive as it could be.

Hi Zoc,

Well as you've indicated SD only is fine and that price is an important consideration then I'm thinking that a HD unit is not needed at the moment. As has been mentioned the HD channels do now have unique content but its also generally second rate content (as anything that rates will always be shown on the SD channels as well) you can also grab a HD STB for $100 if you want to catch the odd HD show live.

The difficulty in your specs is that you could get 90% of what you need but the odd requirement suddenly reduces your options dramatically.

2.0 Tuner - SD Toppy, SD Humax Smart and just about any HD PVR
Well designed User Interface - Humax Smart & Toppy 7000 about the best. SD Toppy excels once you ad a few TAPs (very customisable)
Stable and reliable - This is the headache area for HD PVRs. The 7000 and BW still working here (With the BW probably the more solid of the two at the moment - both continue to get FW upgrades)
Ad skipping - The SD Toppy again excel with a plethora of customisation options (SKIP only as FF/REW is poor). The Humax has silky smooth FF and REW while the BW and 7000 have decent FF/REW and a SKIP option
EPG - SD Toppy also has downloadable data and some very advanced EPG viewers. All other EPG viewers are IMO extremely klunky in comparison (even the Tivo) but they're functional enough to aid setting a timer.
Not noisy (or excessively power hungry) - not really an issue in any PVR unless you're unlucky.
Wired or WiFi network connection primarily to play media from a NAS - This is the limitation. Basically you're down to the BeyondWiz if this is a must have.
HDMI output - Of little worth IMO (and not available on any SD PVR) - component out will do 95% of the same PQ.
HD replacable SATA drive - On SD PVRs it will be a ATA drive which are still plentiful.
Low price - Well SD saves you a fair few $$ but it seems not to be essential?

If you we're going straight excellent interface, high reliability, ease of use out of the box and SD, then I'd probably say the Humax Smart (but its a little pricey for a SD unit). As you've expressed an interest in TAPs then I can say that a 5000 Toppy will give you hours of fun customising at a very nice price. As mentioned you're wanting to play outside media brings you down to a BeyondWiz and its a stable and evolving unit that should see you well. However IMO I still don't see any HD PVRs as offering the performance and reliability that there price tags infer and think that we're still 6-12 months away from this area getting well grounded. That said, they're also not far off either, so jumping in now isn't a bad idea.

You mentioned firmware updates (the 5000's latest one was last month) but in practice these SD machines are 98% sorted. There's extremely little that needs to be sorted anymore. The HD PVRs seem to both require (and are getting) fairly regular updates to fix issues and add features (like resume play)

Good luck

Peter Gillespie

From your requirements, you could consider the SD Toppy ($250) and a stand alone media player such as a mediagate ($225). This wouldn't include the cost of a hard drive for the mediagate, but this is not required if you just want to stream files from your PC / server. So for $450 - $500 you would have the equivalent of a beyonwiz, minus the HD channels. To get files off the Toppy you would have to connect direct to a PC via USB (often inconvenient) or purchase an Icebox 2 etc (now second hand) to connect the Toppy to the network.

Having said that, I've got all three (Beyonwiz P1, Toppy 5000, Mediagate 350HD), and I can easily vouch for the P1 which gets my award for tech item most usable in the house. Don't get put off by all the naysayers with their petty complaints. It's a really great device, and has good forum support if needed.

Thanks everyone for the invaluable information: I think I'm clear on what to do now.

I think I'll keep most of my powder dry for now by going with the Topfield 5000. Then I can pick up the best HD unit in 18 months time when they are cheaper and more polished. I've checked the HD programming guides, and I think I can live out the extra content for the next year or two.

I'm probably a little over paranoid about UI quality after the Yess DVB-2688. Networking would be fantastic, but I guess I can make-do with a USB external drive. The BeyonWiz sounds like a great machine, and it is very tempting, but its hard for me to justify three times the cost when I don't even have a HDTV.

Besides, I absolutely love the idea of TAPs. I'm surprised that other manufacturers haven't taken the idea up, but I'm really shocked that Topfield have dropped it with the 7000. Is there any chance they'll be back with the 7100? These devices are usually fantastic hardware that is let down to some degree by incomplete or poorly designed software, so allowing the community to customise and enhance it makes infinite sense to me. Even better would be to release the entire source code, but that seems to require more courage than the average enterprise can muster.

No-one has mentioned the Homecast HT8000PVR. Its got networking, USB, HD and is relatively inexpensive for a HD unit. My forum scanning hasn't highlighted any glaring faults with it - am I missing something? It doesn't inspire confidence that its internals look extremely similar to my dead Yess box.

I do like this sort of solution. While getting everything into 1 box is a nice goal, in a family situation it can be a lot simpler keeping TV (viewing and recording) separate from your more 'advanced' features. Means everyone can just sit down and watch something without thinking.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Just to clarify, what do you mean by 'make-do with a USB external drive' in the context of a Topfield 5000? The 5000 USB can only be used to connect to a PC for data transfer (using program called Altair) or connecting to a network device such as ICEBOX2 (= firmware altered WIFI network bridge) or NSLU2. It can't be used to play any files from a USB drive. Also, it is not USB 2.0 speed.

Re: Homecast. Reasonable reports, although I didn't think the networking was fullly up a going yet. Definately worth a look as a medium price option.

D'oh! I should have known it was too good to be true! Thanks for the heads-up ozdoc.

Its amazing how successfully the competing products balance their pros and cons to make it impossible to choose between them. Why can't they just make a perfect machine and be done with it? Is that too much to ask?



If the Homecast's networking isn't operational, I can't justify the extra expense.

Now I'm thinking I should spring for the BeyonWiz DP-P1. If it had something equivalent to TAPs, I'd be sold in a flash... but I get the impression that people around here feel they respond to community feedback, so maybe they are a safe bet.

While I agree with your thinking here PG, I got to add that the Wiz handles these duties easily. One less remote, one less device etc etc. Whether playing something off the network or the internal HDD, it's pretty simple.


The Homecast has an ethernet port but it uis not activated at this time and still unclear what it will be used for once it is made available. Other than a few users experiencing issues with "no signal" occasionally, it seems to be pretty reliable.

What features from a TAPs point of view do you use or think you will miss. Some may have already been incor[porated in the build of the newer products?

With the Toppy 5000 you can transfer files to your PC or Laptop via USB cable. So at around $230/240 is still a great option. IMHO

The BeyonWiz DP-P1 considering the extra cost would be worth holding off for the next year.

The Homecast's ethernet port has not been enabled yet. Apparently it will be in a future firmware update, but at this stage I don't believe there is an eta for it. It's also a bit unclear exactly what features will be added with the network port. If you need a network media player as well as a PVR, I'd advise not buying the homecast in the hope that media player features will be added. It does, however, make a pretty solid pvr, but if you're happy with a cheaper SD topfield, that's probably a good option, too.

I like the sound of an opinion from someone who actually uses all three items.

XOC - suggest you go into a store and ask to play with the P1. I think you'll find the UI is more than acceptable.

Buy cheap, get cheap IMO.

There is a recent review on this and considering it's steep price it sounds like it's not very feature packed.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/reviews/review-...8742950920.html

It should be cheaper than a Homecast judging by what it can do.
No ICE TV, No true timeshift buffer, No Networking, Makes me wonder what else doesn''t it have?
I've been waiting for ages to see the owners manual pdf for the DVR-810 but their website has stated for months it's not available yet.

The DVR-810 at Twice the price for half the features of a BW, Homecast or Topfield HD PVR sounds like an absolute rip-off.
Admittedly the Topfield model doesn't have networking but it's the most feature packed pvr on the market and costs anywhere between $600-$800 nowadays.

There is also a 7100 Topfield HD PVR coming (hopefully in a few months time) that has wireless and ethernet networking capabilities and will be able to do everything the 7000 can.
I personally can't wait to see the final specs and what else it can do.

The 7000 won't have TAPs (yes they made the 5000 an absolutely fantastic machine and engendered a huge amount of user commitment). The BW is maybe getting some sort of user TAP but it may be limited to some high level enthusiast users rather that the open slather style of the 5000.

5000 users interested in saving off to a PC have a number of options. If you want to do it a lot then a caddie option is very cheap to set up and makes transferring files between PC and Toppy a breeze. Read about it in the caddie section in the AQA (which you should read anyway if you're looking to get one). Otherwise if you're happy transfering stuff a bit slower then you can hook it up to a network via a $100 NSLU2 (ethernet)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Not so in the case of the low priced Toppy SD 5000 PVRs these days!

If the BW is getting some sort of TAP equivalent, even if it is only for the cognoscenti, that's a big plus. The 'might' part discounts it a lot though.

Being able to transfer from PVR to PC would occasionally be useful, but its not a priority for me. I mainly want to keep things as simple and straight-forward as possible, while still giving me access to most of the content I'm interested in, which is primarily SD FTA, my AVI collection, and the odd DVD. I can see the value of the caddy system, but I'm aiming for more time enjoying programs/movies, and less time mucking about with hacks, updates, discs, files, patching cables, navigating dodgy interfaces and finding lost remotes! Unfortunately, I've got a vision of how things _should_ work, and its proving very difficult to get reality to cooperate :-D

I will go and check out the BW and the other options in a shop. The BW is starting to look like the best option. My main concern was $750 for something that doesn't do what I want hurts a lot more than $250 for something that at least meets more modest expectations. $750 for something that lets me do most of what I want to do now, and provides an upgrade path, is a fair price to pay.

We get a lot of posters specifying a list of criteria and asking what does it. In many cases they're not aware of many extra features now available or they're asking too much from one box. As you say, no one machine does it all unfortunately.

The external drive then seems superfluous to your needs. A simple USB cable and you can do the occasional offload/upload for a 5000 to a PC. The 5000 even records HD if you want (just doesn't play it).

I'd post on the BW forum asking about the AVI performance as while the PVR side of the BW is pretty solid by all accounts its the networking side that seems to still be a WIP.

But I'd agree with the general thrust of the thread, the BW is your best all in one bet for what you want to do, just at a price.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Networking on the BW is fine. The limitations come more in the form of codec support and software support;

It currently does not support ISO files and DVD menu structures in VOB files. Displaying pictures is limited to 3000 pixels high so turning a landscape 6MP picture into portrait view ends up with an error message. Smaller sized images are fine.
It does support VOBs, mpgs, mp3, jpg, Divx, and a few other formats (with MKV support in next FW), so for playing files off a network it is fine.

Simply not true.

So you are saying the RRP of the BW, Homecast and Topfield PVR's is $550 ?

vortical, i have seen and used both the 7000 and the beyondwiz units and i chose the dvr810. Time shifting or networking was not a major thing for me. I like the fact that i can edit and merge programs and it has a resume function. It has a 5 user settable forward and backward ad skip times. It is better built, has a 320gb hdd, looks better than the 7000 and the beyonwiz. it also runs cool and it works without fail. Thats just my opinion and you are entitled to yours! If you want a user manual why dont you ring digitalview and ask them for one they are pretty good and im sure will send you one.

The Beyonwiz also plays AVI's, DivX etc from USB flash drives or external hard drive

I nearly bought one but got the Pioneer DVR 550HX

Don't rate high definition free to air programs very highly yet

Maybe next year !

Here we go again. No one's disputing the fact that the digitalview is the beez neez in PVRs, and Aussie made. What's not to like.

But what is at issue is that the OP wants a networkable PVR with media player capability.

BW - PASS.
Digitalview - FAIL....

One other features the Digitalview misses out on is a constant supply of firware upgrades that still don't fix all the problems. It just does everything it says it will do without any problems.

And there's the factor that everyone has to calculate. Personal program taste.
Personally, I just love Scifi Thursday.
Content aside, anyone paying big $ for a big screen would want the best PQ.

Fair call, but when you product doesn't try and merge many devices into one you limit the possibilities of having issues. Because of the complexity of the BW, it is more prone to bugs/have less features than dedicated CE.
As I have said before, if all I wanted was a DVD player or network media player, I would not have bought a P1. It does a lot but could do each thing better. As a network media player, there are many cheaper models than the Wiz which can do more. Same as DVD players, and PVRs. But as a all-in-one package, it ticks enough of the boxes to meet my requirements. As does the DVR-810 meets your requirements and the Toppy7000 meets others requirements.


Totally agree. I love rallying and to see the Australian Championship broadcast on 10HD last night at 7:30 instead of "So you Think You Can Dance" was a great alternative.

Ok nearly twice the price then still they are not too far off it are they?

I'm denying the fact that the Digitalview works without fail, but without comparable features at a top price it's such a waste of money.

I've got a Beyonwiz DP-S1, Beyonwiz DP-H1 & Topfield 7000 and all are reliable.
The Topfield has not missed a recording since June last year and the Beyonwiz had some early teething issues but hasn't missed anything in the last few months either.

I'm not denying each has their own issues but the two companies are bending over backwards to give us what we want functionality wise.
If all they did was fix a couple of issues without adding anything else they would be in the same position as the Digitalview is now.

I don't know, you're the one making the claims. The RRP of the 320 gig Digitalview is $1099, could you please suplly the RRP's of the other 3.

Homecast and Topfield can easily be bought for $600 to $699
The Beyonwiz DP-P1 from what I hear $750 seems the going price.

So a saving of $349 to $499 for something that has more features and in majority of cases is just as reliable is a deal breaker.

Now if the digitalview was more reasonably priced it would be a different story altogether.
I personally think the Digitalview should be priced at $500 considering what it does.
If it was that price they'd be selling like hot cakes, but at $1100 it's just not worth it by a long shot.

If you want to base it on street prices, some people here have bought the Digitalview for $900 vs $750 for the BW which = 20% more, a long way from 100%.

In the end it all boils down to what features you want and what you are prepared to pay for them. I just wanted a reliable trouble free machine to record HD tv and that's what I got.

On a semantic note, "Simply not true" and "Simply incorrect" have very different connotations.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

You're not an English teacher or Uni Academic are you PG?

Now you think about it, he does tend to post early am, mid morning, lunch, and late afternoon.
-----> Before school, morning recess, lunch break and after school me thinks??

So what?

Perhaps he's a year 9 student? On the Internet no one knows you're a dog. 'So what' is the difference you ask? We'll one infers I'm a liar and the other suggests I've made a mistake.

Regards

Peer Gillespie

You made a statement which I regard to be untrue or incorrect - in the instance in question I see no distinction in meaning. I can't see how the choice of either word makes any inference about your motive.

Peter, you are an authorative and well respected member of these forums whose advice has assisted many, myself included. I was simply disappointed to see you make a comment which myself and others regard as incorrect. I felt compelled to point that out because your status on here, and demonstrated knowledge, would lead many who have no experience of beyonwiz to accept your view over the views of others (which of course means they may chose to ignore me and still accept your post as gospel).

With all due respect I think the HD channels are well worth having as they give you unique programming and what does is matter if they do not rate well.
Example Sci Fi Tuesdays on10 HD, Nascar Racing 10HD, IPL Cricket 10HD( Extra and earlier matches), not all to my personal tastes but nevertheless a worthwhile alternative! Increased choice is the way to go and you do not have to pay a monthly subscription fee!

Definitely some gems in there (personally I'd love to get BSG and Smallville) however I tend to file it under what you don't have you won't miss. Any 'must see' stuff will always be on the SD channels so you're left with paying quite a lot of extra $ for the occasional show that you spot on the HD channel. A household can do happily without Foxtel (or HD channels) but once they get them no doubt they'll start finding stuff they want to watch from them.

For this reason I tend to downplay the HD channels as a deciding factor in getting an expensive HD PVR and rather if the potential purchaser see's some content (like Nascar) that they really love then let that be a bonus reason rather than a core reason.

Understandable. Despite any perceived 'standing', I can't claim to be right in all my comments and I'm happy to be corrected or debated. In this instance after recommending the BW three times I just wasn't sure about the networking side of the BW and suggested asking about it in particular. I only wanted to point out that the language you used may not be read as you intended.

But as mentioned it was just a semantic thing and no harm done (esp. as you were kind enough to call me authoritative - wish my wife would call me that )

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Another key feature that is missing from Digitalview DVR-810 is the ability to archive programs to an external hard drive via USB, although it is listed as a future possibility.

Another piece of the puzzle. Year 9, and married...

A veritable rubix cube is I

Regards

Peter Gillespie

That doesn't worry me at all, I just use my Digitalview for recording, watching then deleting, not interested in archiving.