Hi guys,
I have been trawling through the forums,google,catalogues etc.
trying to find what the best option for me is in regards to purchasing a PVR/HDD DVDR/STB STD or HD blah blah.

Here's a few questions for the more knowledgeable
plus also what I want to do with it.

1/ I would like to receive digital and analogue signals and record them possibly in HD but maybe
upscaled from SD would be ok?

2/ Hookin the old VCR and dub off to HDD some classic crap then burn it.

3/Edit and burn what I have recorded onto HDD from TV.

I guess I/we really need a HD STB that has a HDD that also plays and burns DVD.

Someone in a previous post (thanks) said they dont exist and from all my looking
around I think they dont?

Would I possibly be reasonably happy with the afformentioned HDD DVD recorder with Digital Tuner that
upscales to 1080 or so for viewing on the Plazzy?

Does also the Free to Air stations HD like TEN HD get received by any digital tuner and downscaled
or does it have to be a HD tuner? (there must be NASCAR in my lounge!!)

Oh and what bloody brand?
So far the Beyonwiz is getting good press in the forums here,as well as Topfield but they dont
play and record DVD I think?
I dont wanna have to get two boxes if poss.
Any Ideas if the all in one is coming out anywhwere?

Many thanks in advance to anybody who can help.
Cheers,
Shane.

Basically it comes down to a simple choice:

1) Have a twin tuner HD PVR that connects to a PC - can't record Foxtel or VCR etc. Cost $700 or so

2) Have asingle tuner SD PVR with external input and DVD Recorder. Can record Foxtel and VCR. Cost $500 or so.

What appeals more?

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Cheers for info guys.
Dang no Nascar unless I go HD tuner.
Will look into it more.
Kind regards,
Shane.

getting the Homecast HT8000 + a cheap DVDR maybe your best option for now.

Cheers mate.
Ok more questions

1/ If my Plazzy has a HD tuner,do you think i could get a feed from it via HDMI whatever,
to got the DVDR Hard drive and record it?

2/ If I got a HD set top box,could i feed the HD signal from there into a DVDR and record it
even in just SD?

3/ Leaning towards a HDD DVDR, any suggestions on brands? Panasonics DMR EX87 looks ok.

Cheers
Shane

Deisel provides the good answers. What TV do you have as we can tell you if it has composite out? As he suggests the main problem for this (and the STB=>DVDR) setup is that you need the TV (or STB) to be on the channel you want to record. For this reason spending $100 on a Dick Smith HD STB is probably a better bet as it means you can watch something else on the TV (Foxtel, in built TV tuner, etc.) while the STB is sending its signal to the DVDR. DVDRs only record to SD quality but you're more after the HD content than PQ it would seem.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Hi again guys,
cheers for all info.
After taking more of it in and reading a lot more on the subject
I am leaning more towards a PVR.

So a few more questions

1/ In anyones opinion,what is the best brand of PVR with the best
support and features and maybe approx prices?

2/ On most of these units, I think I can edit the stored recordings and send them off
to my PC for storage/ burning later on? I have read that its a bit tricky to do the burning.

3/I am thinking of having a HD PVR for recording
and a PS3 for playing DVD's,Blu-Ray.I think that the PS3 upscales DVD to 1080?

4/Should i just wait for the TTHDPVR1TBHDDDVDRDVDBLURAY player due out and then superseeded in 6 months or so?

Cheers.
Shane.

1. Difficult question to answer...different brands have different features/benefits/problems and meet different user needs. If you are after a capable HD PVR, then for ~$600 the Homecast HT8000 is well worth a look. They make rebranded DSE PVRs and have active firmware development addressing issues and adding more features.
For something that adds media file playing, file transfer via ethernet and USB, the the Beyonwiz DP-P1 is a solid HD PVR for ~$800. There is also a higher end model (DP-S1) which adds DVD player and WLAN into the PVR.
There's also the Topfield 7000pvrt (~$650) and Digitalview DVR810 (recent price drop ~$900) models that should also be considered

2. Yes you can transfer files to PC for burning to DVD on most of these units

3. Yes I believe the PS3 upscales

4. Don't know when/if we will see a BD Recorder in Australia. Fair to say, it may be a while off and when it is eventually released it won't be cheap.

Just a couple of cents input from me.

I hope you have studied the sticky at http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=29072 as I've spent a lot of time discussing issues you have raised.

Secondly, don't waste time lusting after a blu rayrecorder - they will be expensive, their reliability could be questionable if experiences with HD PVRs are anything to go by, the blank disks will cost a small fortune and finally, there is no way they will have a HD input because of copyright issues (note that none of the current DVDRs have digital audio input AFAIK for exactly the same reason). You would find an DVDR with upscaling would suit your needs fine. Otherwise a PVR is to be preferred as discussed in the sticky.

John

Thanks guys.
Will let my head spin around with all that for a while.
Cheers.
Shane.

Sorry to bother again John,
I have read the newbie Sticky.Very informative.
I would just like this cleared up, can I edit a saved program on the PVR itself
before sending it off to PC for burning?
Please excuse me if this is answered already and I havent seen it.
Regards,
Shane.

Generally the answer is yes, you can edit on the PVR. But also, you get much better editing on your PC (eg many programs can automatically remove ads, the PVR method is not necessarily frame accurate). The best way is to use the PVR to top/tail the recording, then transfer to the PC and do the rest there.

No problem.

There is no absolute answer to this as editing facilities, even if they exist, vary from one PVR to the next. So, if this is important for you, investigate those features of your PVR of choice carefully. And, like editing on a DVDR, some programs are far better than others. In the field of DVDRs, Pioneer appear to be head and shoulders above the rest.

However I would have thought editing on the PC would be the wsay to go.

John

I haven't used any editing facilities on any other PVRs/DVDRs, but the editing function on the Beyonwiz is pretty good, and it is quick! Once you select the Start/finish points, it's a matter of seconds, unless you are copying the file which does take a lot longer depending on the size of the file

Ta guys.
Noted .
Cheers.

The BeyonWiz also supports an addon called the LiDiC which plugs into one of its USB ports. It acts as two seperate analog inputs so you can record from foxtel etc via an svideo input.

With that box, you have twin HD tuner, wired/wireless network for copying files to PC, DVD player (not recorder), ability to plug in an external harddisk via USB and the ability to read some types of memory cards.

It is expensive, not quite yet feature complete, and is still a wee bit buggy.

Can't agree with that assessment MrQ - expensive, yes, not quite feature complete - please nominate which which essential features are missing, finally a "wee bit buggy" what are the bugs?

I am a beyonwiz owner and while I would have liked a cheaper price I can't fault the operation of the unit. Yes, the latest firmware has some bugs (they don't appear that severe) but it is not compulsory to use that version of the firmware.

OK, I'll give you one out of three for your assessment.

I think you misinterpret my advice. I am advocating the BeyonWiz, since I am also an owner of the DP-S1.

As far as features, it has only JUST gotten the bookmarking features, but you need the rushed out March firmware for that, and is yet to implement the remote ICE TV functionality.

I think that since the 192/197 firmware, the feature list pretty much matches what is on the box (finally), but it took a while. Perhaps it is just the huge range of features that the unit COULD have which makes it feel to me like it is missing something. The next update looks like it will add some sort of API so we might see some user-implemented features like the Topfield TAPs soon.

All you really have to do though is watch the sticky threads at the top of BW's forums to see what is broken (in ALL firmware versions) and what features are being requested at the end of the day and decide if any of the missing features are dealbreakers or just nice-to-haves.

I digress though At the end of the day, I like do-everything in one sleek box units so I recommend the BW .

So how much is a beyonwiz roughly?

Beyonwiz Best Price

DP-S1 - ~$1000
DP-P1 - ~$760 (Gondy's receipt has been used by a few to price match)

The problem with the beyonwiz website it that it is full of posts from people who say "this unit would be useful if it could be set so that on the third Thursday of every month it deletes all recodings starting with 'L' except Lost - without this feature the unit is crap and nobody should buy it".

I only visit the site about once a month now as I'm sick of wading through this type of rubbish.

I tend to agree. There has been posts by some frustrated owners who just want bugs fixed in previous FW's before new "wishlist" features are implemented...These sort of posts tend to get a little lost which is a shame.

As far as the thread topic is concerned, I have to say my DP S1 has behaved almost faultlessly since new with only the occassional minor hic-up. I would recommend it over a DVD-R any day...unless you want hard copies.

The limitation of only a single SD tuner was a definite sway towards a PVR over a DVDR. Plus the networking capability of the Wiz range narrowed the list for me even further It was a simple choice in the end

Cheers guys.
I am now seriously thinking about a cheap arse HD STB and plugging it into
an expensive DVDR.
Then I think I should be able to at least record and possibly keep some HD content ( like Nascar) even
if it isnt HD once recorded.
I just hope I have the connections to do it.
Could be a bit fiddly with STB into DVDR then onto TV.
Bloody hell.
Do i watch TV through its tuner,The STB or the DVDR.
Hell!!
Where do I plug the ariel?
Cheers,
Shane.

1. Connections shouldn't be a problem. Make sure you get Svideo connections if you can...much better PQ than composite
2. You'll probably be better off watching TV through the STB so you get all HD/SD services, however it depends on the PQ and usability of the STB. A cheap universal remote like the Logitech Harmony 525 will make the whole setup easier to operate by turning on the TV/STB together and allowing you to change channels via the STB and control picture settings on TV
3. You can loop the aerial through each device - they all add a little boost to the signal as it passes through to reduce signal loss I believe

Aerial->STB->DVDR->TV or alternately you can split it at the wall with a splitter from DSE or Jaycar

Thanks Mick.
So Svideo out of STB to DVDR then to TV then just change channels on STB?
I guess its like setting like I do now, AV1 for signal from DVD,AV2 for signal from VCR etc.
Just wondering do the cheaper STB's have HDMI connections?
I was thinking u would go STB HDMI1,DVDR HDMI 2,STB to DVDR SVIDEO (does SVIDEO carry sound?)
Cheers,
Shane.

Yes and No.
STB->Svideo->DVDR and Audio Out STB->Audio In DVDR. Just like you described, you will need to change to AV1 or AV2 (whichever you use) to record the STB signal on the DVDR.

Best connection between STB and TV is direc t by HDMI. This will carry picture and audio in the one cable, no other connections needed. Again, you will need to select the HDMI input on your TV if you wish to watch the HD signal from the STB, but if you already have a HD Tuner in your TV, I wouldn't bother connecting up the HD STB. Use it only for recording purposes.

There are no HDMI inputs on recording devices. This is to limit 1:1 recordings of digital content.
Svideo only carries picture, no sound, so you'll still need another cable to connect up the audio

Hi Shane,

Just wanting to step back a bit and make sure you'll be getting what you want. Sort of lost track of your requirements in the thread...

1) Do you really want to be able to burn DVDs to keep?

2) If its only a very occasional wish would burning on a PC be an option?

3) You definately need access to the HD channels, but would you be content with only live access or do you have to be able to record?

4) Did you have a general price point you wanted to spend on all this setup?

5) How much TV do you generally watch through the week - a bunch of shows each night?

6) Do you need to record Foxtel?

I'm just wanting to get a better idea of these parameters as a HD STB => DVDR is a workable option but its not really a great one in many instances.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

From what I have read the Beyonwiz DP-S1 has to be an option but the lack of DVD burning is the crusher.

Kind regards,
Shane.

Thank vidiotic,

I'd be inclined to concur with deisel's original suggestion. Get something like the cheap homecast HD PVR ($650) - generally well recieved. Add to this a cheap DVDR (maybe without a hard drive but possibly with) for $350 or so.

The advantage of this setup is effortless twin tuner HD recording. If you want to burn the any cool stuff just press play on the PVR and REC on the DVDR some point at your leisure.

The drawback of the STB=>DVDR option is that you can only do one thing at once (watch a show or record a show) and you have to make sure timers on the STB match timers on the PVR for recording while out. As mentioned, its doable but it can be a pain. I'd only recommend it if you only record 2-3 shows a week.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

All this talk about STBs and DVD recorders!!! Shane - do you really appreciate the hassle of having to program two different devices every single time you want to record something?

Get a PVR and be done with it. It seems you have a PC - get a PVR which will transfer content to the PC and burn your DVDs on the PC.

If you don't want to cable between your PC and PVR then get a PVR like the beyonwiz S1 - then you can use wireless LAN or copy content to a USB drive and then plug the drive into your PC.

Cheers,
Noted.
Dang,I'm so confused as to what to do.
More thought needed.
Thanks again.

Ok guys,gotta ask again.
Say on a Homecast 8000 or a Beyonwiz DPS1, can I edit the recordings on the unit itself?
Say like delete the commercials,and then transfer to PC?
My mate can do this on an older Pio dvdr.edit then burn that is.
I am not sure but do the above units get analogue or SD channels.Do all stations now transmit
a digital signal HD or SD?
Could I plug my VCR into the PVR and put content onto PVR HDD? then I guess send to PC.
I must say that I do most of my recording while watching the TV while the VCR wizzes taping another channel.
Oh and do most units no matter what let a signal pass through when not on?
I may for now just get a cheapo HD set top box and plug it into the VCR.
Now dont shoot me,but I think archiving to DVD easily my old stuff and some new stuff dumped from STB is probably
my highest priority.
Ok load your weapons (swordy.hehe)
Cheers.

You can lead a horse to water.....

Thanks Mick.
Think I will just wait till the BW gets a burner in it.
Losing my ship over this at the mo.
Cheers,
Shane.
(ps.crazy stu's may get an order for an Olin tommorrow.hehe)

That'll get swordy fired up

Whilst it would be ideal to get an all in one, who knows when this will happen.

In my opinion the functionality provided by having a PVR has changed the way we watch TV and I am very glad I jumped in when I did.

I agree totally with the last para. I don't think any of us understand how much a PVR changes TV watching patterns, until we get one. The only things that we watch live now are some sport and some channel 2.

OK Vidiotic, as mentioned on another thread a better solution might be to shift emphasis. We've been hung up on the HD part of your requirements but as you are leaning towards a HD STB then there's another option that might be a nice match:

The a HD STB ($100) with a Hybrid DVDR such as the Panasonic DMR ex87 ($500). Basically the hybrid replaces your VCR. This setup would allow:

1) Easily set timers for all SD channels without hassle (90%+ of your TV viewing covered)

2) Plug the HD STB into the hybrid inputs and be able to watch and record its output (HD and SD channels)

3) Watch live TV using the STB while the hybrid records something else.

4) Cost $600 all up (I'd get the 160Gb model)

5) Can easily edit out ads and make menus and burn DVDs of all stuff you record

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Completely Agree

I don't understand the need to back up HD content to DVD when it's easy to get a networked pvr and transfer the recordings to a PC's HDD rather than having a library of thousands of discs.
With this setup and a redundant backup your data should be pretty safe.

For HD content a blu-ray burner would be needed anyway as DVD can't fit 1hr of HD data on 1 DVD disc anyway.
Then the cost of a blu-ray pvr combo would be pretty steep too, not to mention the cost of blu-ray discs.
I can forsee people trying to burn all their HD (and even SD) content to dvd creating stacks of dvd's everywhere, what an eyesore. Then when you want to find something, what a nightmare!

I tend to agree that having your library on a hard disk rather than a stack of DVDs is the way to go.
Then you only need to make a DVD on your PC for the odd occasion to give to someone else.

It's a paridigm issue (not the speakers - the real meaning of the word). People have been used to VCRs and just automatically think that storing stuff for the longer term means keeping it on a physically separate storage object. When moving from tape they automatically grasp the next thing (DVD). After a while, the realisation dawns that the DVD is surplus and that by ditching it:-

- they can archive to an external HDD or network disk
- they don't have to convert to DVD and lose picture and sound quality along the way
- by keeping the library online they can browse the library and play at a moment's notice
- no more sorting through piles of DVDs
- save money by not buying disks
- easily copy content to your laptop to watch while travelling or on vacation
- stream programs to other devices in your house (eg your ps3 r x-box)
- access content away from home over the web (see how the PSP and PS3 are strarting to work together)

All that is required is a decent priced backup service (see for example, Carbonite).

You wouldn't want to be doing this with an ADSL provider that counts uploads as downloads.

Hi guys,
I think I have decided what to do.
I think i will go for a Homecast 8000 pvr and a Sony or similar
upscaling DVDR.
Saw one of these in DSE for under $500. with 160gb HDD.
Like I have said,while it wont happen that often I would still like to easily (sort of without using PC)
archive some stuff to DVD.Doesnt have to be in HD quality.
While I am here can anyone tell me, if I have something on PVR in HD will it do a send
via standard RCA's whit,red,yellow in ok quality to DVDR HDD or straight to disc for
burning?
Thats what i really want to do at sometime.
Cheers,
Shane.

Well that's one approach you won't 'regret'. Only draw back is the $1100 price tag. Just confirming you've noted my suggestion of a HD STB / hybrid for $600?

Regards

Peter Gillespie

I do (well actually with a cable provider that counts uploads). Have been using it for a couple of years - fantastic service at a great price (Carbonite, not Tel$tra).

If that's what you're gonna do, I reckon get the PVR first, use it for a month or so, and then re-evaluate whether you still need that DVDR? You may well decide you still want it, but I reckon the yearning won't be as strong

Yes, you can record straight to DVDR from the RCA outputs, however, not the best quality for archiving stuff you really want to keep; more apprpriate for sharing with friends/family. You also lose DD5.1 sound