BIG W and TARGET have this month (April 08) brought out brochures EACH devoted to SD DVDs - pages and pages of cheap DVDs ranging from $6.99 up around the $18 mark.


SO - WHERE'S THE BLU STUFF ???


Target's latest DVD brochure has 18 pages of DVD specials. Lets just repeat that - 18 PAGES OF TITLES. BigW has adverts on TV and a large brochure out. And not one of them display a Blu title in them. (Althought there is 'mention' of HDDVD and Blu-ray in the Target on - small print saying that the prices here arent for them).


I'm mentioned this in a previous post - in the lastest JB HiFi brochure there is NO Blu-ray titles ON SALE. (Gee - even the lastest EZYDVD brochure (the boxset set edition) has no mention of this things.


So - with constant chatter on these forums about this product - then - where are they being advertised in the mass media market ??

How is this product going to GET SALES IF its not being advertised ?? Simply word of mouth - or - are we rightly going to see it simply being a NICHE PRODUCT..... HIGH PRICED and BYPASSED by the majority of mass consumers ??


Can I point out one thing - I'm not anti Blu- / pro HD etc etc etc. I'm more interested in the current REALITY in the marketplace. I'm interested in seeing HOW the STUDIOS are going to go about getting this product more sales, and as what price point they think that consumers are going to take ANY INTEREST in Blu-ray.


Regardless of how big the JB section is - the majority of sales by a longshot is STILL SD DVD and IMO I really can't see that moving away in the next 5 years.

How do the Blu-ray distributors - mainly the SONYs - 'convinvce' the large B&M stores to put more stock on their shelves ?

How do the Blu-ray player makers 'convince' consumers to put more money into a product which is the SAME as what they've done with DVD ?

How do the Blu-ray partners 'convince' consumers to spend more $$ on a title which can be purchased in many case for a 1/3 or 1/4 of the cost ??

Lets debate............

How indeed. There was much clapping and chearing when Toshiba pulled the pin with predictions of glorious domination of the Blu format but the silence from the format has been deafening since. In fact the popular press has pretty much ignored the whole scene since the demise of HD DVD since there's nothing left to talk about.

Say what you like about the impact the "war" had on uptake but at least it put HD formats in the news. The current scene is miserable.

There could be a good reason for this........perhaps supply could fall short of potential demand?

Thus it could be prudent to wait till the delivery infrastructure (players and disks, mainly disk pressing) are in place prior to additional promotion and demand creation.

this is a product that has been ON THE MARKET for how many years ??? !!


a good 'discussion point' = how long should they (the makers of the infrastructure) wait ????

(*** more so in any every changing marketplace - and every changing consumer needs/wallets and demands)

There is an issue regarding dual layer BR pressing capacity, due to the uncertianty of the outcome of the format war, many players were hesitant to invest in disk pressing facilities. Now that the outcome is clear, investment in production lines is on the increase.

Still, for most of this year(2008) 50Gb disk pressing capability has been booked out.

Was shocked to not see anything myslef. In fact the only advertising I have seen for Blu-Ray and Blu-Ray discs was in the Sony Pulse magazine I received yesterday. We can suggest its due to supply/demand issues but that better get sorted out soon. Also why do they need dula layer discs for the movies they are presently putting out? 25GB I would have thought was enough?

Oh come on, what demand?! JB tested the waters with 3 for 2 sales and there was hardly a queue at the door or empty shelves for what was, essentially, a 33% off sale.

And all we're talking about here is promotion not radical price cuts. If a wee bit of catalogue promotion is going to empty the country of content then the dearth of infrastructure must be dire indeed.

Might I just add that in Canberra the Big W in the city's Blu-ray section is all of about 10 titles

No doubt in response to the overwhelming demand

give BIG W the BIG A

not entirely sure what the BIG A means - however - IF THESE STORES AREN'T SELLING IT - its not going to be selling much elsewhere.

Blu-ray cannot ONLY rely on the Brazin chain (inSanity, HMV, Virgin) to sell titles, nor EzyDVD (as earlier mentioned - the current 2 April - 30 April catelogue from Ezy (Massive BoxSet Sale) has zero references to Blu).


Now that its 'won the war' - where is it ??


Looking at the current studios/distributor patterns - 3 disc sets / '3 of the Best' / 2 Movie Collectors Packs / Collectors Packs / Complete Series / Complete Collections - is the market wanting to go back to expensive 'single' title editions ??

Blu-ray is a niche product with limited appeal to the general population who are more than happy with DVD, analog TV's and even VCR's. And this situation isn't likely to change anytime soon as the players are expensive as are the disks and to appreciate Blu-ray fully you're probably up for a new AVR and display as well and like it or not the average Target/Big W/and most other places customer really doesn't care about all this stuff enough to even think about spending the money. And if it don't sell you don't stock it.

If one keeps giving exposure to a product, it has the potential to create demand.........it's well known that 50GB capacity is booked out for most of the year.

The disk medium needs to provide an exemplary product to be able to maintain the current premiums charged and be head and shoulders above the potential competition.......downloads, hence the need for 50Gb disks.

I doubt we will see active promotion of BD untill disk pressing facilities are capable of sating the demand that will be created.

Niche for now...........when capacity comes on line the mass penetration efforts can begin. I think 4Q 2008, will see the major moves being made.

Catch 22 really isn't it.

But all we're talking about is promotion here. Not just advertising, how about featuring in the catalogue. Anyone who has worked in retail knows how keen some manufacturer/distributors are to have their products promoted. That means being at the premium spot in the of the store, eye level on the shelf and on the stores fliers and catalogues.

But Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung, LG et al ... they don't do niche. While it might be seen as niche it's not designed or built to be niche. It's just not real popular right now.



I'm sorry HJ but this is pure bunk. There's no grand plan here, never has been never will be. Let's not pretend like BD has ever operated as a coordinated effort by studios, manufacturers and by retailers. They are, generally, a disparate bunch with divergent agendas but with one aim - to make money. Nothing in the history of HD formats has every given the impression of cohesion enough for a "Big Push" or "D-day" scenario to be possible, let alone likely.

Truth is they're all still scrambling to find their place amongst their competitors within the same format. They're only in it to not be left out if it takes off.

I hope you are right, but I remember waiting and waiting, thinking next month they will promote HD DVD, all they need is a movie that can sell, all they need is this, all they need is that, nothing happened. I think Blu-Ray needs to pull its finger out or we will lose all HD disc types if they aren't careful

We will have to agree to disagree on this.....but the effort has been quite well co-ordinated IMO, introduction of HD displays, HD players.
However the format war threw a spanner in the works, but now that that is out of the way, investment in relevant areas can take place, aiding in achiving the original objective.

Yer it bugs me when they have no specials or even advertise Blu-Ray

The HD media introduction was caused by the DVD market reaching saturation and then decline. The HD competition for BR is the download model. BR have to have a much better quality product than downloads are going to offer.

BR has the image quality pretty well under control, what they lack is 50Gb pressing infrastructure. By the end of the year that should be addressed.

Right now there is little value in promoting as they will not be able to sate the potential demand.

Possibly there may be a number, and/or combination of reasons.

* How about waiting for the dust to settle on the dead format? From a product perception point of view why would Blu-ray want be associated, by implication, with the with the numerous firesales in retail stores? It may put doubt into consumers minds to see cheap red HD discs near more expensive Blu ones. Will the Blu disc I am buying end up like the these dumped red ones?

* From a logistics point of view it is also going to take a bit of time for Universal and Paramount to get Blu inventory on the shelves. Perhaps they are awaiting all hands on deck before a promo blitz. It may seem to some consumers a little half cocked if 30% of the potential stock titles aren't available yet (i.e. Universal/Paramount contribution).


And it's only seven weeks since the capitulation.

As an Ancient said "Rome wasn't...".

I know the sun always shines on the land of Blu as you look out your window but you'd have to ignore some almighty screwups to view the implementation of Blu-ray as "well co-ordinated". BD+, BD-J, Fox on Samsung, profiles, delays, MPEG2, BD25 and poor hardware releases have been features so far and almost all caused because of the lack of co-ordination. In any event the competition within is as much a factor as the competition without which is why we get most of the problems we have experienced so far.

I realise it doesn't happen without some level of co-operation but no one could call it slick with a straight face.

Who mentioned anything about firesales or blitzes? So far we're not seeing a flag let alone a parade.

You do realise all of what you say above was due to a threat from a competing format and the need to adapt/compete. Had that competing format not existed.......the story you tell would be different.

In the face of adversity..........

We had this disscussion in late 2005 - early 2006. HD 1080p displays came to market then Hd-Dvd/BR players etc........fairly well co-ordinated introductions I feel.

Perhaps it would have been different but since it wasn't we can only present the facts as they are and were. Sadly the facts show that co-ordination is not a primary consideration of the association while rushing was. Now that the need to rush is over the scramble has turned into a deathly silence.

You would hope that manufacturers would have 1080p displays to go with 1080p sources but these are not a BDA initiative. Companies with no interest in BD are taking on HD displays so it's nonsense to suggest that this is a co-oridnated effort by BD allied companies to push the format. Likewise, it's a nonsense to suggest that the BDA affiliates are grouping together for a big effort once disc prodcution ramps up. Nothing in the history of BD supports this as being possible, let alone likely.

Truth is, now that HD DVD is dead the press have lost most of the interest in HD as a going concern because there in nothing to write about and the BDA in general have done precious little to promote the HD format of "choice".

Wrong. What they need to do now is to create interest and demand, so that when this alleged backlog of titles start arriving on the shelves there will be people champing at the bit to purchase them.
It won't do any good waiting until Q4 2008 or whenever then suddenly flooding the stores with titles and expect the masses to come flocking. If interest is created now, over the next few months people will start looking at purchasing hardware knowing that there is something out there to play on them, and thus there will be an installed base ready for stores to consider investing in blu product to put on their shelves.

Back to the discussion though......


'threat of a competing format' ...


........ here's something to dwell on - PRINTERS / RAZORBLADES / MOBILE PHONE ACCESSORIES / PORTABLE MUSIC PLAYERS - all competing formats.... which really aren't in any 'war' as such - all with different parts which can't be normally used in a competitors. But a razor - and look at the competing brands... buy a printer... and see which ink parts can or can't be bought for it.


My original post was about GIVING EXPOSURE or indeed the LACK OF EXPOSURE.


Does anyone remember WAP on mobile phones ? I believe that this product was given some exposure - only to disappear as consumers didnt feel a need for it. Conversely - having no exposure can only see Blu-ray ending up like UMDs.


Are the studios 'thinking' that by keeping Blu-ray as a NICHE product that it will maintain a more profitable product - rather than the so called 'declining' DVD ?

(As for the declining DVD there's only so many more titles than they can release.. or re-release... or TV shows etc)


And consumers wouldn't give a rats **** about 50gig.

I doubt there would have been a rush to introduce BD, if HD-DVD was not on the scene. But there was no option, BD had to have a presence.....the primary function pure movie playback was at an acceptable state, sure Sony screwed up with the early releases, but to their credit offered no cost replacement disks.

1080p is an industry co-ordination behind the scenes.....check how many BR manufacturers are display manufacturers as well. Both go hand in hand.

Will there be a collective BR push once BD50 capacity ramps up.......let me revist those infamous words....wait till the 4th quarter 2008

I do dissagree, creating demand that cannot be sated immidiately is a disaster. If I am going to be made excited about the prospects, I want to be able to purchase NOW!

Shouldn't that be "I don't"?

He's been screaming in excitement like a giddy school girl for over 2 years now and he still hasn't bought in, but has no issue telling everyone else what they should do

Sure each catogory has competitors within, just like BR has many different manufacturers offering similar products.....not sure of your point.

BR has had exposure, but they at a point that dramatically increasing sales of hardware may lead to a bad situation where software demand will exceed supply capability at present. UMD was essentially a portable movie device..correct?....movies are not like MP3's I think the majority would like to enjoy their movies on a large screen.

BR will be poised and positioned to take over from DVD, the popularity of large displays cannot be underestimated as a massive lever to help make this transition.

The consumer may not give a a rats **** about 50gig, but they will about the quality and detail it will bring.

Feeling inadequate again Mo?

HJ, I think you'll find the topic is about (the lack of) BD promotion in this country so quite what these points have to do with the topic I'm not sure and quite why we're expected to wait until the end of the year I'm absolutely baffled by.

Does the BDA want to sell machines or discs or don't they? There is no (read NONE!) promotion of the format in this country at the moment. No buzz, no excitement, no crowds, no demand, no interest - aside from us few) It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that the lack of promotion is anything to do with being midful about filling a demand that may never exist. Sony have never, in their history, cared about having stock to meet demand. They promoted the bejeezus out of the PSOne, Two and Three without anything in the way of stock and gleefully kept people waiting.

Let's not go back to the days where creating fairytales to prop up specious arguments was the order of the day. Surely the need for that is long passed.

Oh please HJ. Let's not go down this road again. It's no secret where you stand on all things Blu-ray, even less a secret where you draw your views - and it's not from experience. Of all people on these boards you ought to be the last one accusing anyone of being "inadequate".

Truly, you spin faster than a BR disc.

Why would any consumer be interested in bit rate, disc capacity or any other 'waffle' you promote as a coming attraction to Blu-ray ? Even if HD movies came on holographic disc it wouldn't change anything.

Technology in itself doesn't sell the product, it's the practical benefits that arise from it that sell it to the masses.
Selling 'improved Image and sound quality' as the only benefit is not compelling enough to those that as struggling to pay their mortgage and trying to get their children through school.

Blu-ray is seen as an up-market product by many,especially at the current prices of the discs and as time goes on it will be relegated to a dusty corner in the shop, if it hasn't already.

Consumers are sick and tired of being manipulated by movie studios and now that they have a cheap format in DVD and with cheap players to boot they are not likely to be easily persuaded to move away from that.

Had the Studios supported both Blu-ray and HD DVD for movie titles the uptake of HD as a disc format may well have had a chance, but as it stands at the moment, Blu-ray is likely to be overtaken by a much more universal, and consumer friendly format.

C.M

Don't you feel that should be directed at Mo! Mr Never Never!...."Mr DVD forum will never let BR win" or "Mr Universal will never go BR"

If he keeps civil I would have no need for the acid tongue!

Fortunately not all of need to own the product to experience it!

The consumer will be interested in IQ, one needs the others to deliver it

It's quite amazing, in hard times entertainment sells well....the potential to escape.

Yeah, I remember DVD, in 2000 I paid $895.00 for my Loewe........that was a lot of money then, 3-4 years after DVD was released...........and like DVD BR will.......

People have had basic mobile phones too....but constantly.......upgrade...why?

Our crystal balls see different outcomes..............time will tell....ya?

I wonder why I or many others bother responding to your 'Ping ...Pong' commentaries.

C.M

While the BDA were obviously hoping for HD-DVD to fold their tents, the suddenness of it still seems to have taken them by surprise. Reports from BD replicators over on AVS indicate that at this stage they are selling everything they can produce and that lines are running 24/7. Universal and Paramount are having a hard time finding a production slot.

With the the end of the format war more production lines are now being built but none of them will be online for the next 3 months.

Reportedly there's a similar issue with the players in the US with retailers not being able to keep stock on the shelves.

This is not to say that BD is going gangbusters - just that it’s selling more than they expected at this time. This is traditionally a slow time of year for sales and they have been caught off guard by the premature death of HD-DVD. Microsoft is having the same issue with the XB360 where demand after XMAS didn't taper as much as they predicted leaving a shortfall of consoles.

Not much point heavily promoting a product if you don't have any to sell and obviously due to the importance to the format of the US market, if there are any capacity constraints, we may find ourselves getting short changed in preference to the American market.

Of course these rumours may not be true (and they are only rumours) and BD may in fact be selling quite badly at these high prices. If that’s the case then expect price drops in a last ditch effort to stimulate demand followed by a going out of business sale if that’s not successful.

Whatever the true state of affairs, they’re not going to leave prices high indefinitely if they’re not selling product.

Well, some people certainly seem to be miserable.

The unexepected early end of the format war has created a step change in the requirement for BD's due to both more studios now requiring it as well as fence sitters buying in.

Unfortuantely BD is not compatible with exisinting DVD infrastructure so the replicators will have to be built. This will take a number of months, not weeks.

And yes, HD-DVD would never have had this problem.

Australia is not a market in and of itself. If there's shortages in supply in overseas markets, we may get overlooked.

It won the war what, 7 weeks ago? Why don't you give Singulus a call and see how quickly they can deliver you a repicating production line, install it, press the discs and get them to market?

And they won't make money if they price it higher than what people are prepared to pay. So they'll have to hit the necessary pricepoints. For the current supply situation, they may be hitting them now, I don't know. I'm just assuming that they know how many titles they're selling against how many they can produce and have worked out the best total margin at this stage of the game. They have much more data than I have.

Personally I don;t think that having gone to the trouble of winning the format war that they're going to sit on their hands and let BD whither on the vine.

7 uninterrupted posts, surely a record!

I think people are misinterpreting the point of thread here a little. I don't believe the query is about mass marketing Blu-ray here - I'd never expect to see a huge ad campaign on the sides skycrapers or hotair balloons. The fact is though, promotion of BD in this country is none existent. Not only are there no street parades or stadiums being named after Blu-ray, the movies don't even appear ONCE in an 18 page catalogue of DVD titles.

With the end to the "war" there's not a single mention of Blu-ray in the press either so there's no promotion by stealth. Fact is it's deathly quiet.

I for one don't buy the idea of slow production being the reason for the complete lack of presence.

But that's precisely what they're doing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

That nailed him.......

C.M

When I was a younger man 'vaporware' was a term oft used to describe software company's that had nothing but promised the earth...is it coming back again?

An interesting development from Fox but will it entice any other than gamers, who incidently have probably bought their PS3 ? As to how such innovations will sell more BR movie discs to the average consumer is beyond me, surely the stores would rather not have the possible incompatibility issues with older players and the newer discs..

O.T a little I know, but retailers hate these inconsistancies in a product when it comes to promoting it as a 'must have'.

http://gizmodo.com/364342/here-comes-the-r...ng-with-bd+live

C.M