I was wondering if anyone could help me with a problem regarding recording a SD signal.
I have a Pioneer DVR-310 (DVD-recorder) I also have a NextWave TDR-3200 SD (set-top box).
I live in the heart of the city, so reception without a set top box is impossible!

Problem: With my outfit listed above, my Pioneer DVD recorder will not let me record a standard definition signal, it says, "Copying of this material is not allowed".

I have also used a Panasonic DMR-E60 (DVD recorder) and it also comes up with the same error. I have contacted all three manufactures, Panasonic said there DMR E60 will not record in 16:9, they where quite sure of that, Pioneer said there DVR-310 will record in 16:9, so I swapped my Panasonic for the Pioneer thinking it would solve my problem. Well it didn't. My Pioneer also cannot record in 16:9.

I have contacted Nextwave and they have no idea what I'm talking about. They said they have never experienced this problem on their STB.

Note: That on the Nextwave box when I change the screen size from 16:9 (true 16:9) to 4:3, both DVD recorders would let me record, when I change the STB back to 16:9 it displays the copyright error "Copying of this material is not allowed".

After testing both DVD recorders, the problem was found to lie in the Nextwave STB. Apparently it will not let me record in 16:9, only in 4:3. Why is this?? There is no Firmware upgrade for the box! Can anyone recommend another STB, which will let me record in 16:9. As well as being a quality receiver.

What a strange issue.

Can you borrow another STB and see if it still happens? Perhaps Macrovision is present on DVB broadcasts and the the STB is passing that hrough its output.

BTW: The Panasonic not being able to record in 16:9 sounds like BS to me, there is nothing technically different from recording a 4:3 or 16:9 source. Perhaps the Panaosnic tech was infact refering to the issue that all recorded content on the DVD recorder is flagged as 4:3, creating a problem for playback on 4:3 displays.

Danny.

Thanks Danny,


Borrowing another STB will be an issue, I’ll have to buy another STB. Can you recommend a reliable STB?

Sounds to me like the Nextwave box is sending "CGMS" in the VBI (or perhaps macrovision, but I reckon 70/30 that it is CGMS).
You can verify that it isn't macrovision by trying to record to your VCR, if the recording is shocking and has big light intensity problems, then it is macrovision, but I am confident that there is one bit in the VBI that indicates CGMS and is stopping your DVD recorders.
Now, go back to Nextwave and ask if they send CGMS and whether this is by choice from an MPEG copy protection flag, or whether this is by accident (usually the Video out chipsets that generate WSS & CCs also are easily programmable to send CGMS, so perhaps the nextwave engineers stuffed up one bit in their programming).
Regards

Hi Tony,

It's definitely not Macrovison as when in 16:9 mode we can still record using a VCR.
The following were the tests we carried out at my place.

1. First we plugged Dave N's Set Top Box (nextwave) directly via S-Video to my Projector and it worked find in 4:3 and 16:9

2. Then we plugged it into my VCR which doesn't like MacroVision. It worked fine in Both modes, so from this we concluded it wasn't a MacroVision problem.

3. We then Plugged in the Pioneer DVR-310 and tried recording both 4:3 and 16:9 and the 16:9 failed as the DVD Recorder recognised it as being a Copyrighted signal. We did this a number of times and this was confirmed.

4. This time I grabbed my Conia DVD Player which I removed the MacroVision from (firmware update) and tried recording a DVD to DVD. I set the Conia to both 4:3 and 16:9 and both worked fine!!!!!!!!

So the conclusion from this!
a_) The Pioneer DVR-310 can record both 16:9 and 4:3 aspect ratios.
b_) NextWave TDR-3200 SD (set-top box) Outputs some form of copyprotection in mode that isn't MacroVision.

Can you expain what CGMS is?

Cheers
Paul

It is a piece of information in the VBI (vertical blanking interval, the section above the top of the screen used to send subtitles etc and originally used to give the TV some time to get the scan gun sorted out at the top of the screen) that says "nope, can't copy me". So it is another form of copy protection like macrovision, but more to tell "digital" devices that the signal can't be recorded. (It isn't a massive bunch of white lines in the VBI like macrovision that is used to confuse VCRs, it is a single "bit" of information that rides in with the subtitles/ccs & WSS-widescreen switching signalling).


CGMS=copy generation management system.

I am sure the video DAC/MPEG decoder used in your STB will easily generate this, and either the software programmers stuffed up and forgot to turn it off, or the "do not copy me" MPEG flag is set by the broadcasters and the box is genuinely honoring this, and propogating this in the form of CGMS out the video VBI.

edit :
p.s. This CGMS is handled differently for PAL and NTSC. Sometimes the programmer can forget to alter the way it is handled. If your STB had NTSC heritage, perhaps the programmers completely got it wrong for when your box firmware was modded for PAL (I know this stuff, because I have dealt with DVD player firmware and chipsets that send CGMS and Macrovision and know that many players had bugs in the firmware with respect to the handling of this, and it was usually a PAL/NTSC thing was the reason why).

edit2 :
It isn't going to be pretty, but if your STB supports NTSC as a menu option, try that and see if it still has the same problem. If so, then it is either hard coded ON for some reason, or the broadcaster *is* sending the "do not copy me" flag. If not, then I think the STB has a bug in the f/w.

Regards

Thanks for the info Tony.

Looks like the Nextwave range of STB's are a real piece of work!

I actually touched basis with Nextwave, but the Tech support guy I spoke with didn't know what Firmware was nor MacroVision, so I didn't bother any further with them.

Dave is looking at buying another STB.

Cheers
Paul

Ok problem solvd with the netwave
if u set in configuration /video settings to wss in vbi u can record in any formatt :-)

no piracy errors on recording to HDD or DVD
also works with LG 4820w hdd dvd recorder

I got this problem with a nextwave 3100 when using a scart RGB into my Panny E85H.
When I used S-video, no problem.

So how do I go about fixing this!!???

Hi guys,
can anyone explain me how M a c r o v i s i o n is set in digital broadcast? Is there any standard defining how it should be enabled at broadcast headend?
I have seen some broadcasters using private SDT descriptor to signal whether taping is allowed or not; some sending this flag using conditional access (in ECMs).. but is there any standard which defines how should it be defined in broadcast? any dvb descriptor etc...??!!
On M activation, STB decoder chip will read the active flag and transcode certain VBI lines so that recording devices cannot record video (ACG) -> question is where in the transport stream will STB look for M flag?

thanks
san