If i can get the 508xda for $4100 and $5550 - am i basically paying that $1400 difference for full HD?

the contrast on the lx is 20000:1 .. i couldnt find the contrast of the 508xda... anyone know what it is?

Where can you get it for $5550?

melbourne. Im still negotiating with a harvey norman knox, JB (knox and eastland) and retravision..

I havent got approval from the mrs yet above $5000.. so im deciding $4100 for the 508xda or tryin to get the lx as close to 5000 as possible,i dont think im getting it below $5500 though.

Was JB Knox willing to negotiate the LX508A to around the $5500 mark? They have already set the standard for the lowest 508XDA price.

ive got them to 5690 at the moment - used the forum here and other offers such as digitalcentre as leverage.. can i ask do you think its worth the extra 1500 from 4100 for the xda model. is there goin to be a noticeable difference on bluray/

1080 & 720 resolution depends on how close you sit - see the pdf in this link
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=16453

I think its 16000:1

couldnt understand that chart wit numbers and measurement. see - i was convinced and put a hold on the xda. my brother rings me tonight and says"why are you upgrading and not getting full hd?". so now im toying with the lx purchase if i can get it CHEAP. I want a bargain, cause if i dont, i know it will be probably $5000 in 3-4 months. so if i can get it for $5500 now i will be happy.

but the prob is $1400 more dollars for 4000:1 extra and full hd (which i suppose is this 780 vs 1080 argument).

Yes, the Kuro looks so much easier on the eyes than those numbers.
IMO it's no contest. I've waited long enough for a Full HD TV and I'm going to get the LX508A. I won't settle for anything less. If someone can find a store in Melbourne selling the LX508A for $5500 or less let me know.

i would spend the extra $1.5k on the lx.

but thats just my personal opinion.

Basically if you have 20:20 vision & sit more than 2.1 metres away when watching blu-ray, then you are wasting your money on the LX

Rubbish - there are other advantages.

The LX has increased contrast ratio 20k:1 versus 16k:1 and a deeper black.

The smaller pixels to achieve full hd also have other advantages - to my eyes there is reduced PWM noise / a more stable image.

Also the speakers are better / achieve a better stereo seperation.

Removing the speakers from beneathe the unit also helps it sit closer to the floor on the stand - which works better with my low set couch to get a midline eye level view.

If you get a dead pixel it will be smaller with the LX.

And if I ever want to sit closer to see all the detail in a 1080p source... I can.

I am very happy with my purchase - even more so when I compare it to all the other TVs I have seen.

One day there will be something better - but you cant buy it right now. If you have the funds and can get a good price in comparison to other TVs, get an LX - you wont be disappointed.

I bought a 508XDA from HN Knox yesterday for 4100

yeah - tough one balboa, like all of rockys fights tho.
For me, it pretty much came down to budget and what im going to run through it....which will largely be normal SD/HDTV, normal DVD and XVids including x264 720p rips (coz 1080p rips suck bandwidth dry).. and xbox 360. I wont be playing blurays/HD-DVDs for a while yet..mainly coz burners aren't out yet lol and by the time i do (maybe 3ish years?), 1080p will be so avg its not funny. Plus, i compared the XDA to the LX on blu ray die hard 4 and seriously i couldn't hardly tell a difference at 2ish metres, i kept moving closer and further as well. Although thats most likely due my inexperience with HDTV

what your brother said abt 1080p HD has also been crossing my mind for the last month or so, i really wanted 1080p (mainly due to marketing) and originally elected to sit tight and wait for the LX508 to drop. I guess its all just the issue about whats worth it for each individual person. But for me, i can't justify much more than 4k for a 50" plasma, which is already pushing it. I might live to regret my decision for not going full HD, but i think even at my viewing distance of 2.2m i'm too noob to tell the diff between 720p and 1080p on a 50" screen. So i've opted to save 1400 and buy other stuff with it like an xbox 360 etc etc

I was *almost* gonna go for the samsung p9 JUST coz it was 1080p. But man, Kuro rocks! and Pioneer rocks!
Should be sik and after u buy the TV u don't have to worry abt prices..720 vs 1080 etc etc etc, which can be a real drainer

gluk mate,

Geoff.

The simple answer is because you are smarter then he is.

The LX is the best panel available, but if you cant afford it the XDA is next best and better the 1080 panels from other manufacturers.

Is it just me or does EVERY new KURO plasma look dark and dull???

To me they are way too dark and have a lack of pure white and vibrant colours.

how much do you need to change the settings from the standard to get a decent bright vibrant picture.

I was waiting for someone to make this comment. I see it too.
I wonder how the blacks and contrast will be if Pio owners were to increase the brightness to quite a bit to make it brighter.

hmm let me guess you are viewing it in a retail store under a thousand fluros and downlights probably next to all the really bright coloured LCD's.

got the lx 50 kuro for just under $5500 today.

That's actually what I have been thinking to and I have been looking at them in specialist hi fi shops which are quite dark.
I have been trying hard to like them but they just don't have that wow factor when i see them.
Don't get me wrong they look good but for the money you pay for them i just dont think they are worth it but the way the prices are falling on them they might be affordable i the next 3 or 4 weeks.

Hello.

Any chance of emailing me the reciept so I can try and haggle with one of the stores?

Alan

cant cause i have put down a deposit and picking it up january 7th.

Alan - its easy, walk in and say to a harvey norman - its $5999 ticket price at harvey norman in melbourne, myer is offering it for $5700 (with the 10%) and digital centre has it for $5999 with that $300 rebate which drops it back to $5699.. so $5700 is the worst you can do.

go in and say, i have a friend that bought it from harvey norman for $5500 and got HDMI cables thrown in. ill take it now if you can do me the same deal.

if they wont, see how close they do it. if its not close enough $5550 or $5600 - then go to another store.


dan

Err no. Comparing them with the other plasma's from panasonic, hitachi, LG and Samsung. the Pio os darker and duller than every one of these brand's. It is almost as if you are looking into a room with most of the curtains closed.

Everyone knows that LCD's are brighter again.

I agree, it seems that people are buying them on review's, as there is no way from what I have seen in shops that the PQ looks better than other plasma's. You ask the salespeson he they just grunt - sensational black's. Big deal we live in a colour world these days where bright vibrant life like pictures should be normal.

turntable - you lost me when you basically compared the pioneer to LG and Samsung. Pioneer has the best panel, best resolution, contrast and colour on the market... hands down. if you dont think its worth it compared to the other brands in terms of price (the LX is almost 1/3 more expensive than other 50" you can buy for $3000-$3500... if thats the case, i agree with you, its a pricey difference. But the brand, the pq, the styling of the unit itself and made in Japan - its the ferrari's of panels at this stage - hands down.

I am not saying LG or Samsung is better than pio, I am saying that all of thses brands seem to be brighter than the Pio I see in any shop. The pio seems to be dull and dark. Why is that??

Many of the TV seen in a retail environment are setup in "SHOP" or "Torch" mode, where the screens are lit up with Maximum brightness and Maximum Contrast. This is to attract the attention of the shopper but is not a good basis for comparing TVs. Perhaps, some Pioneers may seem dull as people (like me) go to the shop, ask for the remote, and take it off the default VIVID settings. Also be aware that some shops will configure TV (with better margins??) to look better that the others (I've seen TVs connected by component compared against other TV running composite).

In reality you normally don't run your TV on Torch Mode as they overemphasis the colours and can shorten the life of the panel (thats why you shouldn't buy the shop demo units). At home, you would normally use the "normal" or "cinema/movie" modes and calibrate the colours/brightness and contrast to suit your viewing preferences. This is why I take TVs off their default settings to see what they would look like using settings which I might use at home.

I was also very interested in the Samsung and seen next to the Pioneer seemed to be very similiar. However, I saw a thread on the AVS Forums which, admittedly unscientific, convinced me the Pioneer was the better screen. The Thread was called "Official? Samsung xx74/84 pictures..." showed a number of photos of the Samsung 5084 which is their version of the Samsung P91. They are impressive, but within the thread someone took shots of a comparative Pioneer model. What I noticed was the black crush on fur of the penquin, the more natural colours of the scenery for the Pioneer. I think its best summarised by the fact the thread opener feels his next TV may be a Pioneer!

At the end of the day, it depends on what you want - to me the pictures on the Samsung still look very good, but the Pioneer is more accurate and did not crush the blacks. The "pop" and "brightness" of the Samsung can be controlled, but not to the same degree as the Pioneer as it has so many options (which can also be a real pain). It depends whether you want "pop" or accurate. The choice is yours....

Cheers.

EDIT: Thread Address : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=925698 (Warning lots of pictures - takes a while to load)

I have been ummm and ahhhing about either getting a Samsung F series, Bravia XBR, Pioneer 720p Kuro or Samsung LED import from a supplier in USA.

I have decided now that I'm just gonna get the Pioneer, and get it in NZ. The 720p model in NZ is exactly the same as the 1080p model except for resolution. It supports 1080/24p at 72hz. It has 20000:1 contrast ratio,the motion enhancer stuff and all the bells and whistles.

When I was in Gold Coast the other month I went into Myer in Pacific Fair and looked at a 1080p Panasonic next to a 720p Kuro. And the Kuro at the time was definitely much better than the panasonic and pretty much all the other TV's in the store. Just the price sort of put me off. But then today I found out this supplier I get everything through is a preferred supplier for Pioneer Plasmas in NZ and so can get them at a decent price. The only bummer is the RRP in NZ for 720p is aroudn $6500nz where as RRP is $10000nz for 1080p model. I was hoping to get 1080p, but then from what I've read on this forum people seem to think 1080p isn't such a noticeable differnce. And although I think I can see the difference on the bravias, when I've looked at a 1080p panasonic heaps and heaps at this retailer I can't actually see a difference between it and a standard 720p panasonic, so I'm guessing because plasmas are soo accurate with image detail the difference isnt as noticeable as LCDs.

I was really keen on importing an LED LCD as I could get a 46" into the country for around the same price. But then I look at the reviews and people say pioneer is better, has better overall black oppose to samsung which just has mean blacks but loss of detail, it gets blue pixels in black scenes with whites next to blacks, it doesnt support 24p etc that the pioneer does or deinterlace to 3:2 correctly.

End of the day, I am an LCD fan but I've had 3 in the last 3 years and the contrast always bugs me so I'm thinking before plasmas die and LCD, SED, Laser or wotever comes out I might as well get a plasma that everyone seems to be happy with.

Hey would you mind sending me the receipt?

Actually the main advantage of Kuros is black level and contrast ratio. Colour is not really any better then the competition or previous Pioneers, and resolution most certainly is not.

Kuro’s are a little dull by Plasma standards, and 1080 Plasmas normally have less light output then 768 models of the same size due to their smaller pixels, so the LX 1080 Pioneers are a little duller then the 768 XDA models. (Panasonic 1080 models also have inferior blacks and less light output then their 768 models.)
Kuros are still plenty bright enough for most situations, but I would concede not for all.

For people with an appropriate viewing environment the lower light output and better blacks are just what the doctor ordered, but for bright viewing environments the Kuros are not ideal.

Plasmas also suffer from dynamic range compression, which means that when the average screen brightness gets high, output gets limited to avoid overloading the power supply. A full white screen will be only one third to half as bright as the same white input level displayed on a mostly dark scene.

As far as I am concerned the greatest limitation in digital displays is black level, so the Kuro’s (in particular the LX) get high marks from me. The difference really good blacks make to the viewing experience in dim viewing environments can’t be overstated and the Kuro’s are the best flat panels for blacks, however they still leave a lot to be desired in my book as blacks are definitely not black in a darkened room.

It will probably be another couple of years before really good blacks (twice as dark as a Kuro LX) are available.

just like to add something

I looked at a pioneer 1080p demo on 508 and LX508 and I could see a difference in sharpness at about 2.5m+. However, the 508 was brighter and had more pop in the picture.

I find whites in plasmas look dirty and dull. I see no point in having 20,000:1 contrast ratio if the whites are not good. Sony 46X LCD had dirty whites when the picture mode was changed from vivid. I guess i shouldn't judge from what's shown in show rooms.

All the pioneers seems to be hooked to blu-rays .. couldn't find any with FTA material. I am stuck in choosing a Sony and get a free ps3 or go with pioneers (Can't wait to see Blade Runner in Hi-Def!).

I was really hoping blacks in pioneers would blend in with the frame..

+ 1. I have seen the Kuro numerous times (yes in so called un-Kuro friendly brightly-lit retailers) and cannot see the big deal. They look good IMHO but just not deserving of all the praise they are getting. I feel like the person who couldn't find the hidden picture in those posters in the 90s. But that's just my opinion based on my experience (not what others tell me).