Anyone had experience with this?

I'd like to know too.

I've read a number of comments from others that Japanese assembled units are superior

However, all will be made to manufacturer spec and using manufacturer specced components

Most reputable companies use MRP II and other quality assurance processes so in my ignorant opinion, it shouldn't make any difference.

In fact, I know in our industry that some Japanese manufactured items are in fact manufactured in China and just assembled in Japan

Easy answer is snobbery...

I watched a show the other day about a Chinese car manufacturer and how it's making it big in China and going to start exporting cars in the next few years.
They had a film crew on the assembly line showing how the cars are put together and all I could say is I wouldn't want to touch one of those cars.
The workers aren't skilled, some live on site at the factory and work 12hr days on a regular basis and are paid a pittance.
I saw one trying to put a boot on the car and had to bang in to make the holes line up so he could screw it in.

Now this probably happens all over the world in all sorts of factory's but the fact is Chinas economy is growing very quick and factory's are popping up all over the place and that means a lot of the work force is unskilled. You might have a plasma that has to be made a certain way BUT it's how it's put together and by who that worries a lot of people.

Japan has been making stuff for years and is a world leader in electronics with a work force that's experienced and proven to deliver a high standard.

Plenty of sweatshops in Tokyo and outlying burbs.

Also a number of Chinese work in Japanese manufacturing plants.

I think it is more snobbery as another poster mentioned.

Unless someone has some hard data to prove otherwise. I certainly wouldn't pay more for a unit made in Japan.

I don't think the recent Fisher Price recall or the Thomas the Tank engine recall has helped China.
This only enforces people opinion that Chinese made is not as good as other countrys.

I'm not saying Chinese made stuff isn't as good as eleswhere, half the stuff in my place is probably made in China.
I know that my Low-line entertainment unit made from Tasmanian Ash was made in China and it'll last a lifetime but when it comes to electronics with all this **** cheap stuff flooding our market and only lasting a year or 2 people lose confidence.
If you bought a video player, TV, fridge etc etc in the 70's or 80's it's probably still working and only replaced because it's well past it's used by date. Buy the same stuff in the late 90's chances are it's already been replaced because it's broken down.
Because of this people lose confidence in todays products and since most comes from China well they cop it.
Made in Taiwan made in China and made in Korea have a stigma attached to it.
Made in Japan doesn't.

Agree, stigma.

IMO, as far as electronic goods are concerned, products made in Korea are at least on par with the Japanese products. (Not the car industry)

i saw panasonics press release regarding the manufacturing of PDPs and LCDs in china with the executive stating that the manufacturing process in china was under the same quality control system as JAPAN and that as almost all assembly is by robot anyway i really don't see how there is going to be a diffference quality wise, i really think it is snobbery as already posted. My 700a LCD is a chinese build and it has been excellent, am totally happy with it and have had no problems or issues. The way the world is going you are gonna be pretty thin on choice if you have a problem with chinese manufactured items. I have many $1000's in power tools (mainly makita and metabo) and have noticed no degradation in quality or reliability since they began manufacturing in PRC.

Regards,

Drew

snobbery?

Thats too easy an answer.

There is always a difference in quality when a manufacturing process moves from one location to another.
Until it is established.

Example, Arnotts moving their factory to somewhere (can't remember). Essentially they spent a while trying to figure out why their crackers did not taste the same. Same ingredients, same machinery ...finally it boiled down to the quality of the water used.

Same thing with Volkswagen, moving the majority of their manufacturing to parts like Thailand and South Africa. They suffered for years that their cars weren't up to scratch. Its only lately that their quality has started to come back.

If people still think its snobbery why not go and do the research yourselves, essentially it boils down to experience of the assembly line and adherence to manufacturing practices. For China it is still something new. You can think of it like this, one day Bakers delight people will decide heck it's just a bunch of people kneading dough, lets do this in China and fly our bread in. Will the kneaders in china know anything about bread? Would it even be the same kneaders for every month? Would they understand hygiene? Or assume heat will kill everything?

Considering in this year alone we have any a few Mattel products recalled that were manufactured in China.

In terms of Panels, i dont know I guess i would actively seek out a Chinese manufactured one if I wanted to compare ..i haven't yet.

Recalls occur from many countries incl Australia

Manufacturing process and control involves all raw materials incl water. A company that doesn't understand that will have problems in any manufacturing location incl within dfft cities within a country - especially in Japan

It is snobbery pure and simple much as people stay away from Hyundai and as they did years ago with Japanese vehicles.

What is interesting is that no one has yet been able to answer the question with facts

It's funny you use the hyundai as an example, my girlfriend was lured into the cheap brand new car a few years ago. Big mistake she looked after it and maintained it and it ran reasonably well, but body and trim wise it started to fall apart after about 8 mths. She ended up getting about a 1/3 the price she payed after 12 mths. I don't think it's snobbery you really only get what you pay for.
Cheers

I would believe that, I've been in the Pansonic factory in China, nothing to worry about there

Hyundai now have build quality equivalent to Toyota and their factory warranty exceeds Toyota

My current vehicle assembled in Japan has a very average build, in some respects versus Hyundai, poor.

However, all way off topic.

Again, anyone with actual facts to answer the original question. Otherwise it continues to be snobbery (aka stigma)



Not when it comes to electronics.

During research on the human genome project it was stated that the Japanese, Korean and Chinese people all have a common ancestor. But the cultural differences between these three nations are immense none the less.

It’s my belief that it is the Japanese who are the greater perfectionists amongst these three nations. Of course, production deadlines and budget requirements to remain competitive can all take the edge off some of this perfectionism, but IMO it remains a standout characteristic which we still see demonstrated in Japanese made products marketed today. Albeit they are getting some stronger competition lately.

In Korea, another factor is the labour relations situation where, just like in Britain several decades ago, the workers hate the bosses & company owners with a passion. There were even riots inside a major Korean factory a few years ago. (And even on this forum there has been mention of conflict between the workers and the management in the small Australian office of Samsung). The point being that with so much dislike between factory workers & management overall, this is not the sort of environment where quality control of manufactured goods is likely to be consistently high.

Meanwhile, Chinese factories have many workers (some coming in from rural areas) who are simply happy to have a job at all -regardless of working conditions. But there is a huge shortage of workers who are sufficiently skilled though. No doubt all of this will change over time, but I sincerely doubt that Japanese-style perfectionism will become a mainstream characteristic in Chinese owned or run factories either.

However, major Japanese companies who set up factories in China (and elsewhere for the benefits of cheap labour), usually do so with good equipment, comprehensive training for the workers, and also a very strict supervisory eye to ensure that their standards are being met. (And in some ways that’s not too different to what Toyota had to do when first setting up production of motor vehicles here in Australia -because the assembly standards of Australian-built vehicles were not exactly brilliant at the time).

My conclusion is that we shouldn’t have too much concern about the major respected Japanese brands having products made in other countries, because you can probably count on them doing everything that needs to be done to ensure that their good reputation continues untarnished. In this highly competitive market there is just too much for them to lose if they did otherwise.

There are no real, hard facts - just assumptions. It all comes down to marketing - for as long as I can remember Japanese made goods were marketed as having a superior quality to that of other goods and this was not based on any fact, it was just how it was marketed to us consumers. The "Made in Japan" slogan is now synonymous with peace of mind and that a product somehow has better quality.

You keep asking for facts in relation to this, but where are your facts to prove it is snobbery?
I will however agree that there is a certain stigma attached to it...but snobbery is another matter.

Personally speaking, I don’t really care where anything I buy is made, as long as I get what I pay for.
This applies to anything you buy, including electronics.

My DVD player is made in Malaysia and it is far better than the majority of players I have owned or auditioned that are made in Japan or anywhere else for that matter.

I would agree with this statement to a point...
I think true quality would stand the test of time, whereas bad quality will not.
Reputations, stigma or whatever you want to call it can be made on this fact alone.

Where it is made/manufactured may not necessarily always be a true indicator of this.
The same can also be said for the Made in U.S.A. label I might add.

To me this is not an issue - we thought the same thing with goods coming out of Japan up until the mid '60s. Now we can't get enough of the stuff!

Let's face it, "Made in Japan" really means "manufacturing of componentry and sub-assembly performed in China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia etc - Assembled in Japan". So is it really MADE in Japan?

I'm more concerned about your apparent inability to correctly punctuate, so should I ignore you in favour of someone that CAN?

factory's = factories
Chinas = China's

This is another very valid point...and one definitely worth considering before purchasing, as it is actually more common that people might think.
However, your comment in relation to his punctuation and spelling skills (or lack of) may have been a bit over the top

Hey, it is Christmas you know

I'm not really sure what facts it is you are after?

It boils down to what people trust in terms of the people who work in the assembly line.

Eventually equipment, ingredients, materials all get worked out.

Peoples perceptions are based on trust, in England the Prince puts out some organic products. People inherently 'trust' that product because he is the a) the prince been spouting this organic stuff for years

So they naturally assume it is organic and he's not going to cut corners.

Same with this situation. People tend to trust Japanese because they've put alot of nice things together and people assume they aren't going to cut corners 'much'. People dont 'trust' Chinese made stuff because they think Chinese cut corners. And they do.
I've been to China, I've stayed in 5 star hotels, 4 star, 3 star. Its all copied but not very well. Corners are cut because they don't see the value of doing it (otherwise known as wastage).

Health

Theres a link for you about their rising incidents of cancer.

News items like that cause people to think, if they don't care that much about people are they going to really care that much about your stupid tv they are putting together?

I'm not saying their manufacturing process is never going to be good, I just dont think its this year or next year.

Ok, time to reveal that I'm over 21...

In the 70's, Japanese produced goods were commonly referred to a 'jap crap'. They were considered inferior to western manufactured goods. So much so that one Japanese factory renamed itself 'Westinghouse' and the government renamed a town to 'USA' - This was in response to backlash from WWII veterans - the side of the box of the fridge (for example) Read 'Westinghouse - Made in USA' - no full stops - the USA was not a TLA for The United States of America!

So down the years we travel, now the Japanese are revered for their manufacturing quality and skill. The other east Asian nations are now the Japanese of the 70s and early 80s - yes they get it wrong when they start up a new manufacturing line, but given a few years of repetitive manufacturing and they will get it right. Caveat Emptor - Let the buyer beware.

As any of us can attest - we have good and bad Chinese produced goods - i have had one bad experience of quality and customer service with MAYA Australia - dud DVD player and dud service - they sill have my failed DVD player (now about 6 months) - maybe I'll call Slater and Gordon and chase that $55 bucks!

Conversely i have an Ozito 12v drill - still going strong after 6 years - for the grand investment of $39.99 - i could have purchased a $299 makita - then manufactured in Europe.

Not all Japanese that glitters is gold. Panasonic recently released a series of plasma panels with a firmware bug! The fixed it quick smart and i actually own one.

Simply - research before you buy. Be careful with emotive posts - such as my rant above - that may well be a one off.

Hmmm, so basically you're saying they are complacent and indifferent. Sounds like they have learnt very well from western society........

Well you goose if you're not concerned why mention it.
I can't stand idiot's like you.

Hope you have a **** Christmas and an even worse New Year.

I saw that coming, can't say I blame you either

He had it coming and thank's for the support.

OK, but at least I will do so without crucifying the English language!

Crucifying the English language because of one spelling mistake!!!!
You are an absolute drop kick I'm lost for word's to how somebody can be so critical over something so minor.
You're a know all loser.
Nothing I said in my original post called for your smart ass reply.

You'll get over it.

Back OT, in a competitive market, selling price is determined competitively, those that can't meet that price given their cost structure don't produce. The products we buy, at the price we pay, are the greatest factors affecting build location - if you want it cheap, the cost must be low and you get the quality that comes with that cost.

Having blurbed through the microeconomics, some Holdens are made in Thailand, and Sony DVD players that are made in China are inferior to the Chinese brand players coming out of the same factory - Chinese company would not make the ones for Sony unless they (Sony) provided the technology to play the pirated copies prevalent in China that Sony would not allow in their own players. Branding affects perception, reality is different.

have had a hyundai awd for nearly 5 years........no dramas

and still no one has been able to answer the original question other than it is perception and assumption only .....

The assumtpino must then be there is no differenece

Merry Christmas people and enjoy your Chinese New Year as well in a few days

I agree with your comment. I have never had much problem with anything Made in Japan. However I bought an expensive Panasonic cordless Made in Malaysia a few years ago for $400 and it mysteriously stopped working after only a couple of years. Buy then cheaper to buy a new one for less rather than getting it fixed.

And you don't need prove to show that Japanese prides themselves in being the best in the world by aiming to be the leader in everything to an extremely high standard. It's in their culture and many people would know this.
Unlike the chinese, my experience with them and not just once. The attitude is, as long as you can get by that is good enough. Well maybe for them, but not for me thanks.

And it is the attitude that matters.

Watch also the Korean, they will be the next Japanese!



Thank you geejay for an answer well done. even without reading your post first, I can see how you obviously understand people in Asia.

There are plenty of facts and examples around, I just think you have been ignorant, looking at the wrong places or not looking at all.

I have plenty of Made In Japan items that I wish they would break down so give me an excuse to buy a new one. My VHS video recorder is 17 years old the only thing that needed replacing was the head.

My 10 year old Sony Cathode Ray TV (made in Japan) will dance all over any NEW TV sets let it be Plasma or LCD in colour reproduction, even from Sony themselves. The TV is as solid as the day I bought it with nothing falling off. The impression that I get from it is, it will still be in the same condition in 10 years time as it is now.

I admit because of cost there are more goods made in china. And I'm forced, not by choice, but by lack of it to bu goods that are made in China. Don't mind if it is simple items. But try not to if it is electronics. The standard, no matter how you look at it, will never be completely the same. Even Singapore or Malaysia and in some ways Taiwan are better than China.

I have also a chinese made vcr that is 7 years old. Apart from the cheap and no feeling of substance at all, at the moment the display light has already gone.

You are definitely right of it being way off topic. Obviously you have forgotten, it is not Korea Vs Japan.

And I sincerely say Have a Merry Christmas to you too.

Chinees manufacturers can produce what ever quality level the customer (Sony Panasonic etc) is prepared to pay for, so it’s the customer that realty sets the quality standard not the manufacturer.

I have seen some Chinees manufactured and branded high end HiFi gear and the quality of materials, workmanship and design are all outstanding. The big difference is the products are not cheap, like a CD player for $2.5k.
I know people who get high end gear manufactured in China because the required quality level cannot be achieved for anywhere near the same price in western countries.
You can have things manufactured down to a price or up to a quality standard, it’s your choice.

If a company like Panasonic builds a new manufacturing facility, it is Panasonic who is responsible for all aspects of plant design, manufacturing machinery and processes, quality of parts and materials, as well as staff training, supervision and final quality assurance.
I don’t see how it makes much difference what country the plant is located in.

One way to ensure good quality is to design things so that they are easy to build well and implement fool proof production methods so that there is little chance of the human element causing problems. The Japanese are masters in such techniques and it can be implemented anywhere.

High tech companies like Intel manufacture in places like China, Malaysia, South America etc and don’t have quality control issues. If they can do it why cant Panasonic or anyone else.

In the end products must stand on their individual merits, they are good or they are not, the country of origin should be of little concern these days.

Consumer products are heavily price driven, so everything is done as cheaply as possible to both allow low prices and maximize profit. Obviously product quality is likely to suffer under such pressures and if consumers really want quality products they should be prepared to pay for them and not expect outrageously cheap prices.
It’s a miracle we have the products we do at such low prices and manufacturing in places like China is what makes it possible.

Already have

Back to made in China and quality of stuff.

My son just unwrapped his Christmas present a Roboraptor (Robot Dinosaur) and already shredded a screw trying to remove it from it's box.
Cheap and nasty screw's and you guessed it, made in China.

Hope you all have a Merry Christmas and that includes OzStick.

PS- this wasn't one of those cheap and nasty toys either, it was over $140 and when they first came out 2 years ago they sold for $250-300

I do not, but found an article by someone who has. Quoting from a footnote, "Paul Midler has been involved with China for more than 15 years, and in the course of his manufacturing career, has had dealings with thousands of Chinese factories".

Here is a link to the article by Paul Midler, published July 25, 2007 in, Knowledge@Wharton
an opinion piece on "Quality Fade".

The reader responses to the article are also worthy of reading.

RK

When they were $250 they probably had good screws

I've always worked with electronics & have seen first hand that the Japanese stuff is unbeatable for reliability. If the price of a product is within reason, I'll chose Japanese. Very happy with my Pana plasma at the moment even though it cost about $400 more than the Chinese model.

Evan.

My current 22 inch monitor is a CHIMEI from China and it's a little gem. My car is a Mazda built in Hiroshima and it's also a little gem. When buying the car we were also looking at Honda Jazz. You would think that Honda is the archetypal Japanese company but the Jazz is actually made in Thailand. I don't see any complaints or recalls with the Jazz.

I think that it comes down to products being made to a standard or down to a price, irrespective of where they are made. A current example is the Holden Viva, where 2 years ago they scaled down importing the Astra (from Europe) and tried to replace it with an obsolete Daewoo model from Korea (the former Lacetti) purely on economic grounds.

The public weren't impressed, stayed away from the Viva in droves, and now there's an Astra ad on TV every 5 seconds.

I have not forgotten the topic but as with others posting in this thread, since the original question has been unanswered (incl by you) I just kept with the general discussion.

Oh yes, I did have and am having a merry one.

Do you by chance own a Made In Japan panel ?

Not one sentence of your reply answered the original question but thanks for the insult

Yes, many times with a number of electronic items and when the manufacturer has been one mentioned, both sources for the items have been fine (these are items for business and personal use across multiple users)

"Made in Japan" no longer implies quality due to labour force changes in Japan.

As has clearly been shown in your thread, there is strong bias, much based on fact from the past. Trouble with the past it is that.

Cheers

You are probably right.

Merry Christmas.. Oscar

classic!

What have you been smoking? Hyundai build quality has improved a LOT and I'd say they will be an equivalent to Toyota/Honda in the somewhat near future. Their quality is NOT nearly the same. This is a fact. Look at reliability numbers (if you need better numbers, look at the US which has a LOT of Hyundai and Toyota/Hondas). Their warranty is the best in the industry because they are trying to attract new business, it's not necessarily because the car itself will be trouble free for that period of time. (BTW, Koreans in Korea do not even keep their Hyundais more than a few years..whether it's because they want a new car or because they don't want to deal with the reliability issues, I don't really know...but almost any Korean in Korea will tell you..they only keep their cars for a few years (the ones that can afford them)).

In general, items made in Japan have been superior quality wise. This isn't always the case but I've seen this from game consoles, cameras and other random appliances. It could be that the first generation of goods which are initially made in japan, start off with superior parts and as they refine the development of the product to make it cheaper, the parts also get cheaper (although it could work in reverse, the first generation is plagued by bugs, etc). This type of experience has led me to prefer the same item made in Japan. Would I pay 1k more? No way..I don't think anyone would....Would I prefer the one Made in Japan vs. Made in China? Yes...without a doubt...Is there a price attached to that? Maybe..at the same price it's a no brainer.

Do I think the build quality might be 100% exactly the same with the exact same parts with the same product Made in Japan and Made in China? Sure. It might even be better...But my experience has been, with electronic, for whatever reason, whether it's parts or what, that before a company moves their production somewhere else, the Made in Japan ones have been superior. I've seen this with more than enough different products to get that impression....right or wrong...

I've been unhappy with Sony products but I haven't really paid attention to where they've been made. The one last good Sony product I had was made in Japan but I'm fairly certain I've had other Made in Japan from Sony that have gone dead after a few years...In general I've just been unhappy w/ their quality and haven't really bothered to wonder if it's made in Japan or not.

Neither actually, having owned and driven cars in Korea. It is to do with local regulations.

I also have looked extensively at treliabiltiy surveys and current model Hyundais are as good and surpass Toyota

The biggest vehicle recall in the history of the automobile was Toyota and the vehicle in question was assembled in Japan.

Oh and I don't smoke, anything.

The original question was not comparing country branded product but the same manufactured product from different country of origin - very different.

The ratings I see do not have it passing Toyota...Regardless, there's no doubt Hyundai's are becoming very good cars....I'm still trying to convince my Korean friends of that exact same thing..

Biggest recall doesn't mean anything....

And I'm not talking about country branded products..I'm talking about where it's manufactured. Specifically I've found that often, when production is moved to another country, that either the quality will drop or the parts inside are slightly different (they find a cheaper, 'better' way to make the parts). I've said that the opposite could be true which is where there are bugs in the earlier versions and the later ones are improvements upon them..but I've found that more often than not, the earlier versions "Made in Japan" are more reliable than the later ones "Made in China", thus given a choice, I'd take the one Made In Japan. Does it mean I won't buy something made in China? No...but if given a choice and no price premium..it's a no brainer.

As far as the Panasonic TVs...There's no price difference between Made in Japan and China. The models they have out now are almost all Made in China now..when there was a 70a and 7a (Made in Japan and Made in China) there's actually a difference in features (maybe it's just the single HDMI vs. two).