Am picking up a set soon and would you say it's stupid to get only a 720p set and not a 1080p set? Like, spending all that cash, is it a bad idea to not get 1080p?

Main reason I haven't considered it is because all time spent on the TV will either be with a 360 (non-elite and only 720p), watching standard TV, standard DVD's and Foxtel. Not Blueray or PS3, etc.

Viewing ranges from 1-3m at any given time so should I just spend that bit extra and get 1080p even though I won't utilise it for 1-2 years or just go with the 720p as it satisfies my need?

I'm tossing up between the Samsung LA40R81BDX or the Sony 46" D series or the Samsung/Panasonic Plasma's if I want a bigger screen. If I go 1080p, It'll be spending more than $1,000 that I intended to spend by going either the 40" or 46" Samsung M81 or the 40" or 46" Sony X-series.

Res is generally considered to be one of the less important characteristics in regards to image quality, so the argument is why spend money on it and sacrifice the more important characteristics.

The point is more that can that extra $1k->1.5k be *better* spent. You could get a better screen (contract, black levels, colours), longer warranty, bigger screen or even something extra (HD/BR player, AVR, HD PVR).



The 360, like the PS3 does support 1080p, however (also like the PS3) the vast majority of games will be 720p making 1080p largely pointless for gaming.

BluRay and HD-DVD will still look pretty awesome on a "normal" HD set

Beaut. Financially, that is what I wanted to hear

Any recommendations for sets that will go well with 70% gaming and 30% SD TV and DVD?

As above, was thinking the 40" Samsung LA40R81BDX or if I wanted bigger, waiting a week and getting the new Sony Bravia D series 46". I think LCD is the way for me given that the TV will mainly be used for gaming.

Both of those sets ok or any others people can recommend?

The D series is bigger but at least $1,000 - $1,200 more than the R81 but the review on the R81 at cnet rated it fairly high. Better value than the M81 so that's why that appeals. Wish there was a 46" R81 though but there isn't and I don't think the S81 is as good.

D series might be better but may not be worth that extra amount. I could always consider the D series 40" which would only be a couple of hundred more than the R81. That's an option also I suppose.

Just went to JB Hifi to get some idea or prices. The guy there ended up sawying me that 1080p is the way to go and when I thought about it, I'll be using this TV for 5 years I suppose so maybe it's worth it.

I was unsure about the 40" or the 46" so he gave me prices for both that he would do. This is the Samsung M81 too.

40" - $2,900
46" - $3,750

He reckons those prices are about $50 over cost. He would also throw in an extra 2 year warranty (so 5 year warranty) for $160 (normally $250).

I'm not sure if he was talking truth or not so I went to Myer to see what they could do. According to them, it's a slow period of the year for sales and if it was any other time of the year, they'd say no but because sales are slow, they would match the prices and if I put it on my Myer One card, I'll get $50 in vouchers back also. Warranty there is $450 but he's adamant that Myer's warranty is better than JB's.

The reason I believed the Myer guy a little more is because I asked about the 46" and he actually talked me out of it because it was too big for my viewing distance (1.5m - 3.0m). Whether or not that is true, he could've nearly had me spending more coin.

So, any thoughts on the following...

- is that a good price for these screens?
- is the JB warranty not that good or was that the salesman working his magic?
- should I just forget 1080p and go 720p? Didn't look much different but future wise, 1080p makes sense I suppose.
- 5 year warranty worth it or just the three year ok and are Myer better than JB in that regard?
- would the 46" be too big for a bedroom which when lying down is 3m and sitting on the each of the bed is 1.5m which both will be at 50/50?

Thanks

I would rather go 720p on a very good display then get a 1080p tv with average image quality.

I agree with you the top of the line 720p's are going to be better then the middle of the line 1080p's. Unless your going to get a really good 1080p display like the new releases I'd go with a 720p display.

(I would like to declare that I just bought a 1080p display)

Hmm...

I'm kind of new to this all. Can you recommend some models, etc? Is the Samsung R81 (720p) one of those good 720p models?

I was under the impression that the M81 was a good 1080p LCD.

Need some help here, lol

At three metres you will want the 46" if not bigger. Both Samsung and Sony make great LCDs if that's what you're after. I'd say the store extended warranties would all be pretty much the same, i'm not entirely sure. And I wouldn't worry about the 720p vs 1080p and all that nonsense. All HD is going to look great on any one of them. I wouldn't say the 1080p would be worth the extra dollars at this point, and you may find that SD material looks better on the 720p set. Test a couple of DVDs in the shop and see what one looks better to you.

Where abouts are you from Donkey??

Melbourne.

I should have just walked in and purchased something. The more I read into it, the harder it gets to make a choice.

I want bigger than 40" but that means I have to go Plasma and with gaming on the TV being at probably 60-70%, the burn in factor (if any) would worry me even if it wasn't there. But, 40"+ LCD's are too expensive. I wanted to be at $3,000 or under.

I've narrowed it down to 5 (without regard to 1080p vs 720p, 40" vs bigger or Plasma vs LCD).

- Samsung LA40R81BDX
- Samsung LA40M81BDX
- Samsung LA46M81BDX
- Samsung PS50Q91?? (Only 2 year warranty)
- Panasonic TH-50PX70A (only 1 year warranty and 2 HDMI)

Now to make a decision with the gaming aspect in mind.

You're telling me! After a while you read so many user posts on forums that you end up more confused than when you started.
From my understanding, if you get a Plasma, I wouldn't do any gaming on it for the first 100 hours. After that you should be pretty fine.

I'm planning on getting the 42PX7A to use with a 360. I'm hoping it should look pretty impressive, whether or not it looks as good as a LCD is another matter though (that question seems pretty divided amongst people)

Donkey u should maybe look into the Sony Group Buy thread u may be surprised how good a deal it is

Not sure if this matters to you, and am unsure of the price difference between the two(although likely minimal), but the PX7A only has one HDMI input where as the PX70A has two.

1000 hours before gaming on it? See, that's what I don't like about the Plasma. Call me impatient but I want it to be ready from the get go.

It's just if I go LCD, I have to spend more than my budget ($3,000) if I want bigger than 40".

I guess $3,700 for the 46" M8 isn't that bad. Then again, in the group buy LCD thread, I wonder what I could get a D series 46" for?

The 46" D would fit into your budget, the 46" W would be slightly over.

PM me if you want the details

Thanks Hosko. Sent the PM.

The D series in my budget? That's interesting. I could get only 720p then but at 46" which is kind of what I was looking for I guess given I have nothing that utilises 1080p.

If you watch free to air TV you do.

I thought FTA was HD was 1080i (ABC 720P although they don't seem to broadcast any HD ).

Owen, who's doing 1080p?

As for the original question, not only do you need to consider resolution of set, but how well it can display lesser resolutions. If you occassionally watch an HD-DVD via X-Box, 1080P panel will look sensational. However if bulk of use is watching standard dvds or foxtel, then the panel also needs to do these well.

cheers
blairy

Anything from a progressive source e.g. film encoded as 1080i IS 1080p, it just needs simple weave deinterlacing to recover PERFECT 1080p.
1080i video carries 1080p content just fine.
I have posted about this enough times on this forum, I thought people would be catching on by now.
The continued widespread misunderstanding of how 1080i video works is perplexing.

At between 1m and 3m, a 42" plasma is big enough. Get something like the Panasonic or Samsung, which are around $2k. To save you having to read all of these threads:

1) Even if you get a 50" screen, you will soon get used to the size. Remember that for a bedroom set like you are talking about, people used to (and still do) get by with a 14" CRT! 50" in a bedroom would just be ridiculous IMHO.
2) Burn in isn't a big deal on plasma now days. Having your settings at a lower than optimum level for the first 100 or so hours is nice insurance, but may not even be needed.
3) Full HD is mainly an advantage for really big screens (read 70" or bigger). Normal HD can still show the advantages of BluRay/HDDVD over normal DVD's (generally).
4) All around performance wise, plasma still beats LCD.

My $0.02.

I know "...run and catch up will you blairy..."

Thanks Owen

blairy

Yeah, I think 40" is enough then and also, 720p is enough for what I want. I don't need the best and if I decided to get a PS3 or something like that, it would still look fine on a 40" 720p screen.

Main concern now is getting a TV that displays standard TV and foxtel clearly. Or as clear as possible.

Is the Samsung R81 possible of that or are there better ones out there?

The Sony's when they are configured properly look good for SD TV and as good as your going to get Foxtel to look till they go HD.

Cool.

Looking like it's the D series then as that's the only 720p I think. I can only imagine Foxtel and SD would look even worse on a 1080p set and I have no 1080p sources anyway.

Donkey a plasma will be fine with gaming,no need to worry about burn in,i think you would be very happy with a 50'panasonic 70a.

Yeah. Comes back to the question of 40" vs 50".

Thing is, this TV is for the bedroom but only for the next 12 months. After that when I get my own place, it'll go into the lounge and ideally, 50" is the way to go for me when it comes to a lounge. A 50" LCD is more than I wanted to spend though and the 50" Panasonic or even Samsung Q91 are nice but I don't want to have to run screen burn protections every 20 mins, etc, just to protect the set.

I'm torn but at least I've narrowed it down to a 40" LCD or a 50" Plasma.

I have a pana PX700a and couldn't be happier.

But considering you are into gaming I would definitely get a LCD.

Even the latest plasmas will have some burn in effect and plasmas can struggle with bright lights (Power hungry with bright lights) which LCD love.

Yeah. It may not be a massive problem and some may have never had image retention or burn in but I decided it's something I don't want to have to worry about. Asking all these questions means I was worried about it and would continue to worry about it.

It's LCD for me and now I've got two decisions to make.

1. Buy a not so new 720p LCD like the LA40R81BDX (which got a better review than the M81 off cnet.com.au) and save $1,000 - $1,200 and then when I move, purchase a big screen for the lounge and keep the 40" for the bedroom or;

2. But something like a new D series 46" which I can then move into the lounge later on because 46" would be doable for the lounge. Then I'm spending an extra $1,000 though on something I don't know whether it is worth it. Wouldn't want to get the 46" and realise 720p is blurred on the bigger screen. Bigger screen is nice though.

They're my two decisions I think. At least I'm finally getting somewhere thanks to you guys helping me

Found this article on 1080p 1080i and thought it may shed some light

http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/


1080i v. 1080p
By Geoffrey Morrison • November, 2006 Less than meets the eye.
The most frequently asked questions I've received this year have been about the difference between 1080i and 1080p. Many people felt—or others erroneously told them—that their brand-new 1080p TVs were actually 1080i, as that was the highest resolution they could accept on any input. I did a blog post on this topic and received excellent questions, which I followed up on. It is an important enough question—and one that creates a significant amount of confusion—that I felt I should address it here, as well.

There Is No Difference Between 1080p and 1080i
My bold-printed, big-lettered breaker above is a little sensationalistic, but, as far as movies are concerned, this is basically true. Here's why. Movies (and most TV shows) are shot at 24 frames per second (either on film or on 24-frame-per-second HD cameras). Every TV sold in the United States has a refresh rate of 60 hertz. This means that the screen refreshes 60 times per second. In order to display 24-frame-per-second content on a display that essentially shows 60 frames per second, you need to make up or create new frames. This is accomplished by a method called 3:2 pulldown (or, more accurately, 2:3 pulldown). It doubles the first frame of film, triples the second frame, doubles the third frame, and so on, creating a 2-3-2-3-2-3 sequence. (Check out Figure 1 for a more colorful depiction.) So, the new frames don't have new information; they are just duplicates of the original film frames. This process converts 24-frame-per-second film to be displayed on a 60-Hz display.

It's Deinterlacing, Not Scaling
HD DVD and Blu-ray content is 1080p/24. If your player outputs a 60-Hz signal (that is, one that your TV can display), the player is adding (creating) the 3:2 sequence. So, whether you output 1080i or 1080p, it is still inherently the same information. The only difference is in whether the player interlaces it and your TV deinterlaces it, or if the player just sends out the 1080p signal directly. If the TV correctly deinterlaces 1080i, then there should be no visible difference between deinterlaced 1080i and direct 1080p (even with that extra step). There is no new information—nor is there more resolution, as some people think. This is because, as you can see in Figure 1, there is no new information with the progressive signal. It's all based on the same original 24 frames per second.

In the case of Samsung's BD-P1000 Blu-ray player, the player interlaces the image and then deinterlaces it to create 1080p. So, you get that step regardless.

Two caveats: Other Blu-ray players can output 1080p/24. If your TV can accept 1080p/24, then it is adding the 3:2 sequence, unless it is one of the very few TVs that can change its refresh rate. Pioneer plasmas can change their refresh rate to 72 Hz, and they do a simple 3:3 pulldown (showing each film frame three times). This looks slightly less jerky.

If you're a gamer, then there is a difference, as 1080p/60 from a computer can be 60 different frames per second (instead of 24 different frames per second doubled and tripled, as with movie content). It is unlikely that native 1080p/60 content will ever be broadcast or distributed in wide numbers. The reasons for this are too numerous to get into here

Thanks nulla.

Doesn't really elaborate on gaming too much other than that 1080p might be beneficial. Whether that applies to the 360 though I don't know.

Can I ask how many people here have used their PS2/3 or Xbox360 with a plasma and experienced burn-in - with current (2006/07 panels) ?

I would be very surprised if this is a major problem these days....and you certainly wouldn't need to stop every 20 mins to run burn-in protection.

As many have stated, all you'd need to do is have your settings (contrast, brightness, colour etc.) turned down for the first 100-200 hours of use. Past this "run-in period", you'll be able to tweak your settings so they look much better and you'll have a screen that will be great once it is moved into the lounge - 12 months down the track.

I'm not saying that LCD are bad, however I do believe that way too much mis-information is out there about the plasma panels....which does make it hard for people to make a learned decision.

If "burn-in" is the only real factor holding you back from jumping on-board the plasma train....I'd do a little more research before making a final decision.

I have the Samsung LA40R81BDX and its god damn fantastic for gaming. I use my 360 with a VGA connection, and Wii via component.

Here is some pictures I took of it in action, however the motion blur is induced entirely by my camera not liking the low light level in my living room. I get home around 3.30 today so Ill take some more with some natural lighting in the room.


[img]http://img.waffleimages.com/c7c98433d733d9b9df034fa6435c744df969207f/P8260067.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.waffleimages.com/2fb492a1984bae5f396ec1a2b1f36ef19dd5a2d6/P8260068.jpg[/img]

FTA HD digital is pretty nice.
[img]http://img.waffleimages.com/e6868de5a34559c40cd743ddc29ca71c17c40ab3/P8210045.jpg[/img]


In terms of 1080P and gaming, here it is: there is currently 1 game that is 100% guaranteed rendered in 1080P. it is virtua tennis 3. every other game is spat out at 720P, and depending on the resolution you tell the xbox/ps3 to use, it will be upscaled to 1080p or down to 480i/p. So while the image your tv receives is 1080P, it is only a scaled 720P signal, and therefore no extra detail/clarity/etc is being produced.

Beautiful. Thanks for that. I'd love to see some others also but it looks pretty decent.

Dave_L, I like what Plasma brings to the table but yeah, the burn in threat is what puts me off. It will most likely never happen and I know that but just the thought of having it in the back of my mind moves me to LCD. Also, many say that LCD's are better for gaming.

In regards to moving the TV into the lounge in 12 months, it's one of two options.

1. Buy a 50" now and have it in my room for 12 months. When I move, move it out and then buy a smaller screen for the bedroom (like a 40" I suppose).

2. Buy a 40" now, use it for the bedroom and keep it for the bedroom. When I move out, just buy a new 50" screen for the lounge.

Both options are viable and work well so I guess my mind is made up on that regard. I have one more decision to make.

I like the Samsung LA40R81BDX like in the pics. I've read good reviews about it and I reckon I could haggle that price to around $2,000 which is pretty good. Or, I wait for the new Sony D series 40" which is the same (720p) but has motion flow which apparently enhances the sporting/gaming experience.

I think I've narrowed it down to these two.

I'm assuming that's not worth worrying about really if there is only 1 game that utilises 1080p at the moment and even if I had that game, downscaling to 720p would still look pretty damn good wouldn't it?

Halo 3 is being launched on the 360 tomorrow and its a 1080p game. Its only going to increase from here

Do you need an elite to take advantage of 1080p on the 360 though or is it possible with just a normal 360 through a VGA connection?

You can do 1080p over component.

But not through VGA?

So I guess it comes down to the topic title again, haha.

Is getting only a 720p stupid or should I get the 1080p? I'll probably keep this TV for 3-4 years I reckon (if it lasts, etc).

Can probably get the Samsung R81 or the D series for around $2,200 but also got quoted $2,900 for the 40" M81 so I could go that was I suppose.

Read the top line of this page
http://www.makeyougohmm.com/xbox360-1080p-games/

its updated regularly too.

Look on the back of any 360 game case, 99% of them say 720p/1080i/1080p. because the console is capable of upscaling it to the resolution of your display does not mean the game is being rendered in that resolution.

1080P is possible over component, VGA, and HDMI. component/VGA 1080p support is determined by the TV (both of which the samsung TVs handle just fine). The VGA cable will also enable upscaling of DVDs.

The elite is a total cop-out in the AU market. The elite was put together thanks to a strong demand in the US for a larger hard drive because of their vast video marketplace. Unfortunately we arent as lucky as those in America who get to rent HD movies and download them to the hard drive for viewing, so there is really no use for 120gb of storage space to us, unless you intend on downloading and keeping many demos, videos and game updates. if you absolutely must have HDMI the halo 3 limited edition console comes with HDMI as well, or the premium systems will be released later this year/early 08 with HDMI as well.

Ok, cool. Native on the majority of games is 720p.

Might just get the Samsung 40" or the D series 40" because when I get a bigger TV for the lounge, the 360 will go there and hopefully that TV will be 1080p when I get it in a year or two.

I shouldnt really say anything because it may make the decision harder but the smasung does have an ' N ' series 1080p which retails at $2999 before discounts.

Saying that I would still get a good 720p. Probably a sony ' D ' series or other???

Yeah, I have seen the N series in JB. I did think about it or even the new Sony W series just so I could get 1080p but it's only a 40" screen really so I think I'm going to get the Samsung LA40R81BDX for around $2,000. Not as new as the D series but cheaper and I've read good stuff about it. Cnet rated it highly recommended and said it's a better screen overall (minus better blacks) than the 46" M81.

Then for the lounge I can look at getting a 50" 1080p screen when I know the money will be well spent. I guess that's the best option really. Keeps the budget low and gets me a screen for gaming that is miles above a non-HD CRT.

Hopefully 40" is big enough for the bedroom where it can be 3m viewing most of the time.

I have both a bravia and a pana plasma.

I dont play console games but find HDTV is absolutely fine on both of them. I'm sure you'll be happy with either!

the general consensuses in the samsung vs pana tread is pana is better. i personally saw them side by side at DSE and agree.

there is no burn in issue with the current pana plasmas. even if you leave the static image on for over 2 hours it only takes 1-2mins to get rid of the barely noticeable ghost image (only noticeable when you turn off the tv and standing 1m away) with moving image.

i have a ps3 that i play on my px700a panasonic and never have a issue with burn in. i wonder if those ppl who commented about the burn in issue have actually played games on those units? only major problem with the panasonic is the sound issue with FTA HD channels which wont concern you.

I second that !

I reckon its so hard to compare in the stores..

Everyone turns the colour settings up so high and when you get it home you end up turning the colour down again so its not the same comparison as you saw in the store.

Try the specialist stores. Although they probably don't calibrate displays (I don't think you can when they are brand new), they are often set-up a lot better.

Your meant to calibrate a plasma after 200 hours, a speciality store would be able to after having it only display for 25 days if they turn it off at night, if they don't its only 8 days.