A retailer recently told me that no Australian TV station was broadcasting true HD.
I have a Panasonic 106cm HD panel hooked up to a Topfield Masterpiece PVR.
I bought the panel (TH-42PV500A) to view HD but was talked out of a Hi Def STB.

Please tell me, for those with HDSTBs, is there a noticeable difference between
SD and HD?

Clive M.

Your retailer is mostly wrong (and stupid - its only true that no TV station broadcasts true HD 100% of the time, most scale SD programming to HD most of the time however only some programmes are real HD. The point is that australian DTV does broadcast in HD - just not all the time - we'll see more HD programmes over the comming years.

If your panel can display more than 720x576 pixels - then yes you will see an improovement. If your panel cant display more than 720x576 pixels but can accept a HD signal, its scaler will give you a smoother picture (when fed a HD signal). If your panel can display 720x576P (Progressive scan) then you will see an improovement watching 7HD or ABCHD.

A HDSTB also lets you recieve DD5.1 (when broadcast) so you will get better sound if you have a DD5.1 decoder connected to your HD STB.

Cheers,
Bitey

The retailer is wrong. 9 and 10 do transmit real HD at 1440 x 1088i or 1920 x 1088i, although not everything you see is from a HD source. There is a noticable improvement over SD, but depending on your display, you may see more artifacting due to low bitrates.

The retailer you spoke to must need to have his brain checked... unless he just came out of some kind of time vortex Nine and Ten broadcast quite a few shows in HD at 1080i. 7, ABC and SBS brodcast at 576p, which isn't as high but still better than 576i due to the progressive scanning of the pic. Some countries only call this ED (Extar Definition) however here it is accepted as a HD standard. Most shows like Supernatural, CSI etc. are HD.

Your panel has a HDMI input, and can display a high resolution of 1024x768... you need a HD STB. Of course the PVR has very convienient features, and will continiue to record nicely in SD for you to time slip programs etc., howwver you are missing out on the full benefit of your screen. The retailer probably said this as the SD PVR would have been more than a HD box, and he probably thought you wouldn't spend over $1000 on a HD PVR, of which I think there is only the Toshiba at the moment. Teac, LG, and Topfield are all coming out with HD PVR's this year, so you may want to wait still, but these will of course be quite dear when they are first released. You can get a reasonable/good stb with DVI for between $200 and $450 no probs, of course depending on the brand, place you buy, quality and features. I have the Teac, it's fine... you can then use the HDMI input (DVI to HDMI cable) which you can't use with a SD box, and this will give a much better pic. The sound can be run seperatley to your tv/panel or amp. and will give you the benefit of being able to recieve Dolby 5.1 sound when broadcast. On your screen you will clearly see the difference when a native HD program is broadcast, or a movie off HD film etc.

JSmith :ph34r:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=28574

There's plenty of content in HD

Well, at least the retailer erred on the side of reality ... compared to your average SalesDrone, who'd happily tell you that every station broadcast nothing but HD, 24/7!

Currently, in terms of the big cities/networks, 9 and 10 broadcast some decent HD content some of the year*. Channels 7 and SBS dont and never have broadcast anything remotely high-definition. The ABC broadcast a would-be HD at first, then gave up.


______________________
*OK, technically they broadcast it through the summer non-ratings period too, but if you're after more than Bert Newton in HD, etc, you're out of luck!

Thanks all for your input.
Santa, what you have said is about what the retailer said.
Hard for a beginner to put into technno terms. My panel is
capable of receiving all the Hi Def signals and has 1024X768
resolution. I thought I'd wait a while before purchasing a HDSTB
then connect through the HDMI input. May even throw another
antenna one the pole just for Hi Def.
Thank you,

Clive M.

Hi Clive,

Possibly some silver lining. The sales guy (like most sales guys) had half the story. Yes HD is broadcast but only a pretty small proportion of it is 'true' HiDef - filmed in HiDef at proper HiDef resolutions. A bit more is shown at lower HiDef PQ and the majority is shown as 'upscaled' SD. All of these are a better PQ than SD but it starts getting fairly marginal for the last category (10-20% increase in PQ?)

On the (very big) plus side you have a Toppy - There really aren't any reiable HiDef PVRs (and the only one costs $1200+) so at the moment if you want a PVR then SD is the best choice. And Toppy is the best choice of all PVRs. A large number of Toppy owners have HiDef TVs but only watch them via the SD Toppy (They'll upgrade the Toppy to a HD version in a few years and keep the TV). After pausing live TV, skipping ads and basically watching what you want when you want going back to live HiDef TV can be a real drag (despite the slightly better PQ)

As a new Toppy owner, have a read of All Questions Answered to find out what the machine is capable of.

And anyway - you can always buy a HD STB for $300 if you really want to try one out.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

It doesn't neessarily have to be filmed in High Definition to be classified as High Definition. When a FILM gets transferred, generally there are two options: master a HD transfer or an SD one.

HD transfers have the benefit of having less artifacts and more detail than an SD one, but considering that virtually all DVDs are made from HD transfers these days, that benefit is pretty much wasted on a DVD (due to the compression required, hence producing more artifacts and providing less detail than if it were to be kept as HD all throughout).

The short answer is Yes there is a difference.

The broadcasters are transmitting 1080i at 1080X1440 versus 1080X1920. Not usually an issue as most displays are either 1024X1024 or 1280X720 which is less than current 1080i broadcasts. Having said this ABC, SBS and Seven only transmit 576P which is basically 576X720 resolution though transmitted as an integrated set of interlaced fields to make up a single Progressive frame.

A lot, if not most of the HD shows are just upconverted from standard definition media 576X720 interlaced format. These shows would look about the same on a HD Dsiplay that upconverted to its native resolution and possibly display format (i.e. to progressive).

Differences would be primarily due to the quality of the Display or STB at upconverting [increasing/changing resolution and possibly format (i.e. 576i to 576P)] versus the broadcaster and whether the broadcast was in 576P or 1080i. The display will likely have to convert anyway as the native resolution of the panel would not lbe the same as the broadcast and/or the format would need to be converted (Interlaced to Progressive or vice versa).

The answer is still YES but - Individual experience and value will vary based on user equipment, configuration as well as content and broadcast formats.


Bryan

[quote name='bbar' date='Feb 2 2006, 02:43 PM' post='342558']
The short answer is Yes there is a difference.

To all plus bbar, Davo amnd Peter, WOW what a wealth of information, thanks fella's. Glad to hear my choice of the Toppy was the right one. Sounds like waiting for a while is the go.

Clive M

I'm sorry, but this comment realy doesnt make much sense. 'Why spend all the extra money on a HD high resolution screen, to then only run SD on it and wait years to run HD on it...??? Why not just buy an SD panel now for a much cheaper price, and then buy a HD panel when you decide to get into HD. It's like putting your foot in the water and not ever diving in! You'd be much better off if your going to wait 2 or 3 years to get the HD screen then, as it will probably be about helf the price of now. If you get a HD screen now, get a HD box with it... or just go SD. Unless none of these "large number" of owners care about there wallets...

JSmith :ph34r:

Oh, I will dive in eventually

For many, buying a TV is a once in 10 year proposition. In these heady high tech affluent days this seems to be speeding up but it still not unreasonable to expect to keep your main TV for at least 5 years. Unfortunately HiDef PVRs are just not an option right now, but SD PVRs definately are and for many people the functionality (and decent PQ) of a SD PVR is worth 10 times the amazing benefits of watching HiDef (ads and all). For others that's not the case. As mentioned in 2 years or so I should be able to upgrade the PVR to a HiDef model without shelling out more 1000's on yet another screen - might even save the environment a little .

I bought a top of the line 76 cm HiDef CRT for $1300 at a time (12 months ago) when LCDs/Plasmas we're still ludicriously expensive and (IMO) suffered from to many chances of defects. I doubt I'm going to pick up a 100cm Plasma in 2 years for $650. But in 5 years maybe I'll grab one of those 2m SED displays for a grand or two

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Yes SED sounds great, I am waiting for this also.

That's the point Peter, in 2 years you probably will get one for that price... they are getting that cheap to produce as the demand across the world increases. $1300 - $1500 will get you alot more for your dollar in 2 years than a 76cm CRT. Why didn't you just get a great widescreen 50Hz TV, or even 100HZ without HD monitor, for about 50% - 60% of that price? Hell the $700 would've paid for the toppy... In 2 years you'll be able to sell that screen still for much more than the Toppy... I agree with your diea to get a CRT set, as this is exectly what I did. I used it for a year with no STB, waiting for the market to settle a bit, then got the Teac for $390. I was thinking of just getting a SD box, but then thought "what was the point getting this TV?".

JSmith :ph34r:

Tis a reasonable point except that I won't be getting a new TV in 2 years. I'll keep this one for 8+ and I wanted to 'future proof' it a little bit.

Can't imagine a second hand 50hz SD CRT will be worth all that much in a couple of years but I get the idea. To be honest I probably would have gone a good SD CRT but a year ago prices of HD CRTs crashed (mine dropped $5000 in 18 months) so it was a no brainer.

I guess it just a very rapidly changing tech landscape (2004 to 2008) - Amount of HiDef being broadcast, improvements in Plasma/LCD technology, Digital TV, HiDef STB but only SD PVRs, invention of PVRs, analogue only DVD Recorders, Prices crashing throughout, consumers buying new TVs every 2 years, etc.

Its hard to make a personal purchasing decision, let alone provide reasonable advice to others. All we can do is provide the information. I think the point you are making is valid (and becoming increasingly more so which each passing day) - Hopefully they'll invent a decent HiDef PVR soon so we can speak as one

Regards

Peter Gillespie

But enough long posts - I really have to get back to work.

I used to agree with pg on this, but now with SEDs on the way I'm leaning jsmith's way....people who buy HD screens now will probably want to upgrade them a lot sooner than they expect.....