Closed captioning has simply disappeared recently when viewing Channel 7 programs through the following two STBs DGTEC 2000A and TRIO.

Enquires at DGTEC, Seven, AUSCAP and ABA pass the buck to each other for a solution.

The fact is that captioning works perfectly for all the other channels on the two STBs above. In fact, Channel 7 captioning has worked on the DGTEC for more than a year. DGTEC firmware version remains at 1.9.

ABA refused to look further into the problem on the basis that if that is a problem with Seven, they would have been flooded with complaints.

I am curious whether other STBs are able to display Channel 7's closed captions. If your STB is not able to display 7's caption, please reply post here with the STB brand/model number and the date when test was carried out.

Thanks.
Kim
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Information added since orignial post:

Location: Hurstville / Sydney

Problem persistents during daytime news break and evening prime time!

Where are you?

What town?

Is this just in the day time or evening as well?

This may be a local problem.

Hi George,

A local problem may be. No supplier or government body is able to help. The highlight from ABA is that you have to prove that Channel 7 is not transmitting the captions. When asked how one can arrive at that conclusion, the manager was not able to tell you how.

For a mere mortal, two STBs from different manufacturers displaying the same problem is almost a sure sign of problem with the way Channel 7 tranmits its captioning. Have you say on this ?

It does highlight the lack of consumer protection in the digital TV arena. If you are not the proud owner a STB yet, think twice before diving into it.

Anyway, the two STBs with Channel 7 captioning problems were tested in Hurstville & Kogarah -- both in Sydney.

Can some kind hearted souls in Sydney switch their STBs to Channel 7 for a minute to check out this captioning mystery and post your results here.

Many thanks.
Kim

Melbourne watching Ch7 on VHF Channel 6 (not UHF repeater).
19:55 to 20:05
My Strong 5290 displays teletext captions OK on Seven and other networks
My DigiTech 2000A does NOT display TTX on Channel 7 but does on most other channels.

Strong Software version 1.0.4
DigiTech version 1.9
Hope this helps diagnose your problem.

Cheers

JB

Hi Kim,

Tested at 6:30-6:45pm.

Seven captions are OK on the Emtech, but Not the DGTEC here in Perth.

Captions are not always broadcast before 6:00pm in most cities.

There is a deaf organisation with posts to links on the old forum which dealt with this about a year back. Someone may recall, a lady in Canberra looked into it at the time.

vmt
Does your TV have teletext, if so try the captions on that, using the STB's on ch 7, press the text & 801 on the TV remote, if the service comes up, the DTV signals are fine. I've had the same troubles here in Canberra, when my STB's won't show the text, I use the TV's and all's well. I have provided an email address for the NSW Deaf Society they may be able to help.
gadget

Thanks George, John and qadget for the time and suggestion.

It is becoming clear that Seven has changed or enhanced the way they transmit closed captions in the last few months so that only the latest STB or older STB with patches will be able to display their closed caption properly.

This brings us to the interesting question of whether Seven is still complying with the government’s captioning standard. Layman like us will never be able to find out. Common sense dictates that backward compatibility must be enforced with enhancements to avoid chaos -- apparently this is not the case with Seven's late enhancements. ABA does not want to know.

Assuming Seven does, then do the STB manufacturers have any obligations to provide free firmware upgrades? My support call to DG-TEC went like this:- they asked for your name, address, phone number and unit serial number. Once they established that your unit was more than 12 month old, the only offer was we ship the unit down to their Melb centre. However, they were unable to provide any cost estimates.

And I was told DG-TEC no longer provide free firmware download.

Our government and the digital TV participants all want digital TV in every home. Are they telling you that a $899 STB could possibly only last 12 months? :ph34r:

Or am I missing something or simply not talking to the party with proper authority?

Kim

Hi,

Australian Caption centre recommend Strong boxes for captions. I know dgtec has probs with channel 10 doing caps, and won't do caps on 7 at all.

check out www.auscap.com.au for more info.

Hi All,

Interested in help hearing impaired people who are still suffering from this closed caption problem with Channel 7?

Closed captioning is hardly the sexist topic at all so your participation will truly mean you care.

If you are using a non DG-TEC brand Set Top Box (STB), can you please switch to Channel 7 for a minute during the prime time to check whether the closed captions are displaying properly and post back here with the brand and age of the STB tested?

Thanks
Kim

Just need to confirm the scope of the problem before taking the next step.

18:30 WA time, TDT, Subtitles ok on Seven program,
no subtitles on commercials.

Emtech EM-1150 SD box (new)

Hi All,

I know it is a big ask for the request. Still I was hoping there would be more than one response.

Obviously, I am running out of options other than going to the hi-fi stores on thursday night to check. Apart from being a pain to the stores, the latest STBs might not exhibit such a problem.

So, here is my last appeal to you! Act now to help solve a lonely old man's problem.

Kim

Sorry, belated response, I thought you were asking for experiences of others that *have* DGTEC.
7 Sydney is fine here for Home&Away right this minute. Hmm, on 2nd thoughts, when there is a bit of rapid dialogue, the subtitles dissapear reasonably quickly when the other person is talking. Normally if 2 people have a rapid fire conversation, both persons texts would stay on screen in different colours a bit. Looking at the proggy after Home&Away (My Wife&Kids), it looks a little better (probably because Yanks talk a bit slower ;-) I can tell the subs are still done in Aus, as they use multi-colours and lower case (most stuff that comes pre-subbed from the US looks like it has uppercase and one colour only).

I am using a Topfield TF5000PVRt. The only prob I have seen with captions/subs is with 9 in Sydney, where the subtitles are a good 2 secs ahead of what is happening (I have the priviledge of sound, but could imagine that given the dialogue subtitles appear 2 secs before the actual dialogue, it would make it impossible to work out who was saying what). Since not a single person has mentioned this is a prob for them (please, can someone in Sydney try 9 please), I have no idea if it is the box or Channel 9?

Edit: Noticed 7 when recorded on the PVR has subtitles about 0.5secs ahead (is perfect in realtime on Wife&Kids) so perhaps the PVR is a little to blaim for 9s "advanced" subtitles too?

Cheers

Thanks for the reply.

Just come across another piece of article on this issue to share.

Our government is fast making itself an international joker and establishing digital tv it heavy promotes in the no-mans-land league !!!


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http://www.hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/...p/subs/wren.htm



I wish to make the following submission about captioning on TV.



There is mention of requiring government action on standards for television equipment. Specifically listed are televisions, which should require captioning decoders – which I agree with.



The second point raises the issue of availability of vcr’s and dvd recorders to record captions. I think the commission has missed a technological step on this issue.



Current technology exists to record the digital broadcasting stream onto hard disks ranging from 30-80 gig in capacity. This is more than enough for a few days of recording. Unfortunately though, NONE of the Digital free to air receivers record the caption stream. In fact, NONE of the digital set top boxes sold in Australia FULLY comply with the Australian standards. This point is easily demonstrated with one of the set top boxes never displaying any captions for one channel! This has not been fixed, and is still a problem even with the latest firmware upgrade.



If the commission were serious about captioning, they would be looking to the hardware manufacturers to lift their game. We have had digital TV for years now, but there is not one box on the market that will decode captions flawlessly, and not one on the market that will record them and play them back.



Sure DVD recorders are nice, but how many people can afford to pay $2000 for one? And I have not seen conclusive proof that they record captions on the DVD, despite is being a claim of one manufacturer. Also on this point, why would someone buy a digital recording device that will only record analogue television signals? Wouldn’t it be better to promote a $400-$500 digital set top box that meets Australian standards that can be plugged into an existing, if ancient, VCR with no trouble and then record using that hardware – all the while being able to display captions?



For those that can afford a little more, a PVR set top box with a hard disk can be had for about $900 – but at the moment are useless as they do not record captions (thus failing to meet the Australian standards). However, this $900 technology offers a vastly superior picture to a DVD recorder because it is ENTIRELY digital, whereas the dvd recorder is only recording an analogue picture.



I think the commission should be focusing on sub $1000 products before they go looking to $2000 products that deliver inferior picture and caption technology.



I also think they commission should be focusing on promoting hardware that is not going to be obsolete in a few years time. Remember we are supposed to be going fully digital soon…



Matt Wren.

Hmm, I wonder when that Matt Wren document was written, as the Topfield TF5000PVR (and PVRt) *does* record the captions.

VMT,

I was talking to a supplier of a particular brand of STB and he reckons the DGTech unit uses the VBI teletext information (Teletext "dots" at the very top of the screen, out of the visible picture area). Other STBs use the digital teletext data encoded into the transmission stream.
The inclusion of "visible" teletext data in the digital pictures may be simply fortuitous for some networks who are piggy backing the analogue service on a digital transmission link. The "standard" would appear to be digital stream captions and teletext for the digital TV service and not via the VBI lines which are more susceptible to interruption and as mentioned elsewhere, the compression load of the system may well affect the VBI data which is effectively encoded as analogue representation of the digital data.

The upshot is that the DGTECH may not actually be following the Australian digital TV standard, but I cannot be absolutely sure on that, but it fits with what this chap was saying.

As for some STBs not recording teletext data (my strong 5290 does not do CC on time delay or recordings), I understand these units stripped out teletext data to lower the data throughput requirements. As mentioned in this thread, later PVR units are able to record and replay CC data.


I hope this helps a little in understanding the issues with your CC problem.

Cheers

JB

I have a DGTEC set top box Model DH-2000A Ser No. DAU2400968 and am unable to get captions on channel 7. Due to a hearing problem this one of the reasons I bought the box.
When I rang DGTEC they claimed they did not know of a problem but that I could post the box to their premises at 3/146-148 Williams road. Dandenong South 3175. Interestingly they said I could not hand deliver the box for "security reasons".
When the box was retuned the service inspection report No. 19043. said "Relay was replaced in unit. Found no problem with teletext as it function ok with other channels. Unit found to be in good working order and functional."
Only problem is there are still no captions on chan 7
Where can I go from Here. Consumer affairs perhaps.

Get a Topfield (really!). I mean, this thread is almost a year old, and Dgtec clearly don't want to do a thing about it. Have you tried going to teletext 801 (do these boxes have teletext decoding??) rather than pressing the subtitle key? I know that the Topfield, for Seven, will allow you to choose page 801 and it will "erase" the screen and display CCs similarly to pushing the subtitle key.

Back to the Topfield-
It records up to 2 channels at once, and includes recording the captions, which is perfect for the hard of hearing that also has a normal (away from the house) kind of lifestyle.... can record about 40hours on the 120G HDD.
You can turn the captions on/off at any time too (even while watching a recording), so those that wish to watch the program later on that don't need the captions won't be annoyed with "hard coded" captions of, say, a video tape taping from the output of a non HDD STB with the CC options turned on to hard record them to tape.

Regards