I saw an ad in the paper yesterday quoting the following for pioneer dvd recorders

720- $997 save 500

520- $799 save $200

non hard disk model $349 save 200

do you thnik that new models are on their way soon

maybe the dual layer ones I have seen referred to on this forum?

anyone with knowledge got opinons

Its about time that these recorders got below the $1000 mark. starting to look more affordable.

suede, was it a Pioneer ad or a retailer's ad? If the latter, which one?

I saw the 520 (80Gb HDD model) in JBs at Macquarie Centre in Sydney for a sticker price of $799.

Haven't seen or heard anything about new models but maybe with the 520, they're taking on the LG 80Gb recorder which is rrp $800?

Hey there,
just checked out pioneer in the UK, which is good indicator of what we will get next and found this little beauty, copied the specs, they didnt release the previous model here but hopefully they will this time, HDMI, yum!
Key Features DVR-920H-S
Mega-capacity 250 GB Hard Disk Drive

Up to 55x High-Speed Copy from HDD to DVD

EPG (Guide Plus+)

HDMI, Full Digital connection

10-bit precision digital signal processing

High-quality design in black acrylic

Playback DVR-920H-S
Media DVD-Video/DVD-R/DVD-RW/CD/SVCD/VCD/CD-R/CD-RW

MP3 Yes

WMA Yes

JPEG Photo Viewer Yes

Advanced Disc Navigator (DiscNavi) (VR mode/Video mode) Yes/Yes

Seamless Playback (VR/Video mode) Yes/No

Commercial Skip / Back Yes/Yes

Commercial Skip Back Yes

Chase Playback, Playback with Recording (VR mode/Video mode) Yes/No

1.5x view (scan1) Yes

Recording DVR-920H-S
Media (VR/Video mode) DVD-RW / DVD-R, DVD-RW

PAL/NTSC Yes/Yes

Max. Recording Time FINE: +/- 1 hour
SP: +/- 2 hours
LP: +/- 4 hours
EP: +/- 6 hours
SLP: +/- 8 hours
MN: +/- 1-6 hours
32 steps

Variable Bit Rate Recording Yes

Easy Timer Yes

ShowView Yes

VPS/PDC Yes/Yes

One Touch Recording Yes

Direct TV Recording Yes

Number of events 32/month

Linear PCM Recording (Audio) Yes (FINE, MN32)

Editing DVR-920H-S
HDD Input Title Name, Easy Title Input, Erase Title, Erase Chapter, Erase section, Accuracy: Frame, Chapter Mark

VR Mode Input Disc name, Input Title Name, Easy Title Input, Erase Title, Erase Chapter, Erase section, Playlist, Accuracy: Frame, Chapter Mark, Undo

Video Mode Input Disc name, Input Title Name, Wall Paper Samples (Title menu) (Finalization), Easy Title Input, Erase Title, Accuracy: Title, Chapter Mark: 10 min/15min/No seperation, Undo

Picture Quality DVR-920H-S
Digital Noise Reduction Component Frame DNR PRO

5-Line Comb Filter Y/C Separation Yes

Pure Cinema Progressive Scan (for PAL) Yes

Video DAC 14-bit/108 MHz

Digital Timebase Corrector Yes

Picture Creation Yes

HDD Functions DVR-920H-S
Group Yes

Maximum number of titles 999

One Touch Copy Yes (HDD to DVD, DVD to HDD)

High Speed Copy Yes (HDD to DVD, DVD to HDD)

Rate Conversion Copy Yes (HDD to DVD, DVD to HDD)

Optimized Copy Yes (HDD to DVD)

Disc Backup Yes

Auto Replace Recording Yes

Resume (by Title) Yes

Recovery Recording Yes

Advanced Disc Navigator (DiscNavi) Playback Yes

Seamless Playback Yes

Chase Playback, Playback with Recording Yes

Hard Disk Drive 250 GB

Recording Mode: Max. Recording Time FINE: +/- 54 hour
SP: +/- 108 hours
LP: +/- 216 hours
EP: +/- 324 hours
SLP: +/- 433 hours MN: +/- 54-433 hours
32 steps
Max recording
time per title: 420 min

Convenience DVR-920H-S
Disc History Yes

Auto Clock set up Yes

Set up Navigator Yes

Channel preset download Yes

Tuner DVR-920H-S
System PAL-B/G, I, D/K
SECAM-L/L', B/G, D/K

Connections Terminals DVR-920H-S
Input 1 SCART (AV connector 2)
RGB Input via Euro-SCART
1 RCA (Audio/Video): 2 (1 in front, 1 in rear)
1 S-Video: 2 (1 in front, 1 in rear)


Output 1 SCART (AV connector 1)
RGB Output via Euro-SCART
HDMI Video Output
1 RCA (Audio/Video)
1 S-Video
Digital Audio (Optical/Coaxial)
G-LINK (STB Control)

DV Terminal (IEEE1394) IN/OUT

System Remote Control Terminal IN

Miscellaneous DVR-920H-S
Dimensions (W x H x D) 420 x 87 x 357 mm

Weight 7.9 kg

Power requirements AC 220 - 240 V, 50/60 Hz

Power consumption 62 Watt

Power consumption in standby mode 0.7 Watt

Remote Control Yes

cheers,
catford

it was a jb hi fi ad in the sunday mail in brisbane. $500 drop for the 720 is a big drop off retail 33%.
I suppose you could still hope to get a little more of that also. I think I will wait till the next model comes out though ( depending on price and features)

Pioneer website still has not changed retail price on website also

i think i saw that 250 gb model on a foreign website where the price atfer doing aust conversions would be approx 1000 dollars. That would be great if it happens.

Hi
I noticed a post on another Forum a Month back that predicted the price drops as the stand alone DVD recorders(all Brands) are just not selling.
Average Joe is still buying $250 Sony or Panny VCR's and the 'better informed' are using Computer Burners or PVR's. My $0.02 whilst in Posting mode.

Regards

Basil

I think you have it in one basil.. 999 pvrs and now 999 top range dvd recorders

I hav always though you are not going to sell recorders on mass when you can still pick up vcrs for sub 100 dollars.

now that you can get them for 200-300 dollars certainly more attractive option even without a hdd.

I myself want a hdd drive one but will wait for next model I think dual layer could be on board then

They must be making way for those 400GB Triple HD tuner models they sell overseas *

*Facetious comment

160 gb is enough for me more the extras that I want rather than memory size

as for 400gb one day im sure

I bought the 160 gig pioneer on Saturday at Harvey Norman in Cannington (WA) for $897.

I saw it at JB for $999 and was going to buy it there but I could only see the display model and couldn’t find any others. I was trying to grab a sales assistant for about 10 mins and got annoyed and left.

So I went to HN down the road. They didn’t have any in stock but assured me they would be in on Wed this week. They were still asking the old price $1399. I told him JB had it for $999 he went and spoke to another bloke who showed me their computer screen with their new buy price of $867. He said how about our cost plus $30.

So hopefully I should pick it up on Thursday night.

Although had I have not known they probably would have let me buy it for $1399.

the lesson there is it never hurts to ask! $897 now that seriously looks like a good price.
About time also.

I wonder if need models will be at that price or they will come with a premium?

The new models are on the UK site

I guess I paid through the nose with $1550 for a 720H mid February - the price dropped $150 the day after I paid :-( Only "bonus" is I have a 3 year guarantee, something I might need as the unit is doing a lot of recording.

Note that European specs for Pioneer, JVC etc contain SCART connectors but generally no component out. I have suggested the Aussie models should have one SCART in while the STBs still carry them. And a digital tuner ASAP is a must.

Not sure I would use a bigger HD as the 160 gb has been more than adequate so far. Most of what is recorded on the HD to archive here is promptly edited & burned on DVD. Other than that we store post 1990 movies from Austar on it to time shift and seem to keep up to them ok. The reason is that despite good reviews in Maltin and Martin & Collins, the movies do not always appeal so half are promptly deleted.

With no inputs on the present PVRs, the DVD-Rs are good for the purpose of time shifting movies & other programs from pay TV. I understand Foxtel have (expensive) PVRs available but that their reliability is questionable?

Like most items in this video area prices are coming down while specs go up. Toppy distributors, are you listening? And the mish mash of video connectors remains an irritation for us all. :ph34r: Even with DVI connectors there is not just one standard. Will the manufacturers ever get their act together?

John

I only looked at that site on the weekend so they must of just been posted.. they look great but at first glance no digital tuner?
prices-can't wait to see oz prices
availability in australia-????
will we get all these models in australia

If Pioneer could come out with a DVD-R, based on the present excellent unit, which had a digital tuner, A SCART input and digital audio input they would kill the oppsition. With hard drives so relatively cheap now they might as well put in a 250 gb unit.

I'll email Pioneer to have a look at this thread - might help move things along

John

I would love a scart input to but I wouldn't hold you breath here in Australia.
Digital reciever would be great also but once again still waiting.
I wonder whether we will get all new models also.
I sense 'finally' a move to get the prices down to realistic levels.

reminds me of a few years ago when dvd player prices just went from 600+ to around 200 dollars (for name brands) in a matter of months.

And I should have added, a dual layer burner as well.

John

i am pretty sure that the new models will at least have dual layer burners

Note that Dual Layer only comes in the DVD+R9 flavour. You can pick up DVD-R9 burners for the PC (maybe not yet here in Australia) but there's no media available for it - it's still under discussion at the DVD Forum, IIRC.

The Pioneer 520H and 720H don't support any of the DVD+ series (which is also not supported by DVD Forum), so I don't suppose that Pioneer will be pushing out a DL recorder for a while - not until the DVD-R9 format has been finalised.


g4N7

I bought a new Pioneer DVD/HDD 720H yesterday for $999 at NAPF, Rockdale after seeing the ad in the paper.

The old Pioneer DVD Recorder is only 80 GB as too small as I need more HDD space for transfering of VHS tapes into DVD discs after editing.

I have started looking and decided I am getting the Pioneer 720.
Being in Melbourne it appears they are still selling the out of date 520's at $999

I was determined to find a 720 and found two links on the web for them at $999!!!!!! (for a 720)!!!!

http://www.cabramattahifi.com.au/store/pro...e570417d05788c6

http://www.lenwallisaudio.com.au/products/...ls.php?pid=1002

Now I hear on this thread JB hifi in Sydney is selling the 720 for $897!!

Yet none of the stores here (JB hifi, Harvey Norman, Myers, David Jones) sell anything newer than the 520?

What's the chance of me going to JB Hifi here in Melbourne and telling them wthat they should get and sell me a 720 for the same price as JB in Sydney!?

Alec
First time poster

FWIW, be cautious. I heard from a very well respected authority who can't be named that the new Pioneer DVD recorders (520, 720 etc) are inferior in some way to the old series (eg 310).

Is this really the case and in what way are they inferior? I have no idea, but I did read a bad review in a Pommy mag of ?the 520 (mainly PQ concerns). It was enough to make me hesitate a bit on getting another Pioneer DVD recorder with HDD and relegating the 310 to the second TV.

All I'm saying is that I will have to do some further research before buying. But, if you're convinced of the merits of this series of DVD recorders, then go for it!

How's this for a suggestion. Take a look for yourself. Don't spout crap.

1) These are hardly new. They've been out for > 6months and will soon be superceded. The upside is that many of us have been using them extensively, and feel that they are superior.

2) "A well respected authority who can't be named" CIA? ASIO? Encel? Unlike previous models 520 etc uses a vbr encoder which has improved PQ.

3) Which magazine? In various UK mag reviews taken from ecoustics the only whine was the lack of component or progressive outputs.. Ie What Plasma & LCD TV Online (2005-02), Sound & Vision (2004-11), Home Cinema Choice Online (2004-09), What Video and Widescreen TV Online (2004-09).

I think my post recommends people check for themselves and not automatically assume "newer is better". That's what I intend to do. It's up to each reader of this forum to decide for themselves who "spouts crap".

1) Perhaps I should have said "newer" rather than "new". I'm glad you and others are happy with your purchases.

2) None of the above! Just a person whose work involves intensive evaluation of AV components. It was a brief comment and I didn't go into detail or ask him if he would be OK about that opinion being cited on this forum. At that time, i wasn't contemplating buying another DVD recorder or I would have asked a few more questions.

3) What HIFI Sound and Vision. If you check the summaries in a current edition you will see they are definitely not fans of the 320, 520 or 720, but they give the 920 a favourable review in the April edition. I only use editorial reviews as a guide to the models that might be worth checking out myself and I take all of them with a grain of salt.

I prefaced my comments with FWIW. I suggested some caution is appropriate (isn't it always?) I also suggested that people who have checked them out for themselves and like what they see should "go for it".

The point is that I have a Pioneer plasma and a Pioneer DVD recorder and I'm very happy with both. I will be adding a further DVD recorder in the near future. Due to the difficulties in testing this sort of gear in the shops and noting the welcome price drops, I might have been tempted just to go with the same brand and not looked into it as much as I should.

However, a few things have caused me to be a bit more careful, which is not a bad thing....hence my post.

Sorry if it upset you.

Who's upset?

Is this an unfair summary?

You have no personal experience with these models.

Someone you know who may have seen them may have said something negative about them.

A UK magazine two sentence summary (not the review) of the model sans component was in some way negative. (I haven't read it).

Just did a Google search on the 920H. Not cheap in the UK and how much of that model lands here is questionable.

Seems to me to be very similar to the 520H & 720 but with a bigger drive and HDMI links. The SCART in & out might not be seen here. Apart from HDMI & a firewire connector I cannot see any digital audio link in - pity. Still an analog tuner. Maybe a step forward, but not a major one to tempt me.

:ph34r: I'm a bit with vidiot re criticisms of the Pioneer unit. I think we should all be fair when posting and not reproduce heresay without back up detail. I looked very carefully at all DVD-Rs available here and picked on the Pioneer as the best myself. The nebulous post by zekey is the first contrary opinion seen, yet it is very lacking in substance.

My (previously posted) crits of the Pioneer are

* no digital tuner
* no digital audio input
* s-video is the highest quality video input (RGB in O/S units)
* only single layer

But hey, hey, all the above crits apply to the others on the market here.

So we look at ease of editing & general operation and crits finish.

Just my 2c

John

The "don't spout crap" comment suggested to me that you might be a bit upset by my post.

If you're saying that I haven't made a credible case against this series of DVD recorders, then you're absolutely right.

But I suspect that most people reading my posts will understand that it was never my intention to do so. AFAIK, these units may be superb, as your experience seems to suggest. I haven't claimed to have any personal experience with them.

BTW, I did actually read the full review of the 320 in the January edition of the mag
and I was surprised at their impressions. But, like I said, I'm a bit sceptical of reviews.

Actually, I do admit that I regret citing a source that I would rather not identify on the forums. Tassie Devil is right in saying it's "a bit nebulous". What I posted was honest, if a bit misjudged.

Sorry.

[quote=aspyrou,Jun 11 2005, 11:20 PM]
I have started looking and decided I am getting the Pioneer 720.
Being in Melbourne it appears they are still selling the out of date 520's at $999

I was determined to find a 720 and found two links on the web for them at $999!!!!!! (for a 720)!!!!

http://www.cabramattahifi.com.au/store/pro...e570417d05788c6

http://www.lenwallisaudio.com.au/products/...ls.php?pid=1002

Now I hear on this thread JB hifi in Sydney is selling the 720 for $897!!

Yet none of the stores here (JB hifi, Harvey Norman, Myers, David Jones) sell anything newer than the 520?


What's the chance of me going to JB Hifi here in Melbourne and telling them wthat they should get and sell me a 720 for the same price as JB in Sydney!?

Alec
First time poster


[/quote

Hi
(and) Welcome to the Forum Alex, can only speak for Brisbane/Gold Coast and Sydney Stores but still plenty of the old(310) Model Pioneer Recorders for sale. When the new Models arrive there will be probaly 3 generations of recorders kicking around, no wonder stores are starting to bundle them with Plasma/LCD sales.

To zekey, you don't have to apologise,your entitled to your opinion the same as every one else on this Forum, Pioneer is regarded by Journalists on both sides of the Atlantic as the leader in DVD Technology however your comments are similar to articles i have read in my travels around the Net, but unless i write down the name/date/ etc i only remember the general theme..

Regards

Basil

It's not so hard, and much more useful, to back up such statements. And of course you are entitled to your opinion - but it is more valid, I think, to share the details of where it came from.

For example, Basil, I would assign less weight to your impression of the general theme as it is contradicted by the reviews above. If you can give me something other than a feeling in your water about a product, whether it's a finding in your own use or a reference from another source, then maybe it's worth something.

Hey folks, thanks for the welcome.
This was one of the few sites that is regularly visited by knowledgeable and responsive posters.

I looked at JB's locally and they stock the 720 at the right price for me $999.

I know that it is basically a 520 that is an old model anyway but I am not going to play the Technology waiting game and I have a budget.

The reason for the budget is because I expect to replace it in a few years time and don't want to spend the earth on it now.

Anyway, I would have purchased the 720 but for two reasons.

1. No method of controlling the cable box channels (IR blaster)
The Sony (900 series) does have an IR blaster but it is so limited in the editing department and everything else on the Pioneer is spot on (especially ease of use - for the wife).

I currently have optus (standard entertainment package) and wondered how do I control the cable box if I want to record two programs that are on cable channels only. Setting two sets of times (one on the cable box and one on the DVR seems like a paing to me so imagine what the wife would say !!)

Even though this is a highly unlikely thing for us (9/10 times we record channels 7,9,10). But if I am spending a grand I wouldn't have thought it difficult to get an IR blaster capable DVR. Is there something I am missing here?

FYI: I have the black box Jerrold 500 series cable box.

2. Only one tuner (see note below))


NOTE: Dual tuners
I think there would be the odd ocassion where we might need to record two different programs at the same time (whilst watching a third) and believe dual tuner enabled DVR's do this. But my question is how? If you only have one cable service (i.e. one cable box). How can two tuners allow you to get to cable feeds at the same time???

Alec

This is not difficult and is no different to having a number of radios operating off the one aerial system. The tuner "tunes in" the selected frequency. 2 tuners simply tune in two different frequencies from the input.

As for your other queries, I'll leave others to answer.

And I'll add my welcome. Yes this is generally a most civilised site. About the only others I bother with are Audioasylum at http://www.audioasylum.com/index.html (I help moderate the Music Board at this excellent site) and the Meridian users Board at http://www.softronix.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate....passCookie=true

I sometimes go over to remotecentral.com (guys very helpful there re programmable remotes) and very occasionally the AVS forum. But this forum is up with the best

John

Thanks Tassie Devil, yes I frequent Remotecentral as I have a Universal Remote control (MX 800 from Hometheatre an excellent universal remote !!!!).

Thanks for the links I am keen to learn more.

Suppose the only other thing I would love a DVR to have is the ability to pay lossless MP3's (or other lossless audio files) direct from the hard disk and have a network interface to transfer the files via.

However this seems to encroach on the media player market (though I don't see why it should).

Now a Pioneer 720 with those added benefits would really sell it for me.

So for now I have to purchase two systems (one for Hard disk space Video and one for hard disk based music = sad really).

I have seen the Imerge though that is horrendously expensive for what it is and a Media PC could cover all this but in my opinion they are just not retail freindly enough (aka Mature).

Alec

Hi
Geeeeez, whats with the surly Posts, i suspect you may have paid full retail for the OBR Pioneer HDD Recorders. Ifs its any comfort (in Sydney) Bing Lee and NAPF won't go under the $890-$900 mark(COYS) for the 720H but IMPO thats around the correct RRP anyway.

However if my controversial and misleading Post offended you in any way I sincerely apologise. I've got nothing better to do in my life so i spent the last two days trying to find the article i was referring to(review of HDD Pioneer Recorders , published last year , where the Journalist expressed an OPINION the Video quality wasn't as high as in some other Pioneer Players/Recorders) but I couldn't locate it . I did find a review from Ern Payola , chief Hi-Fi reviewer for Wankers Weekly that may interest you . He/She stated "....... all Pioneer HDD Recorders are crap, in fact all Pioneer products are crap ." I have immediately listed my 733A and 969 on Ebay, I would have also listed my Pioneer Computer Burner but i can't get the screw-driver thru the flap to unbolt it.

Do you think i have done the right thing ??
What you think really does concern me.

PMFP

Basil

GLOSSARY.

OBR........Obsolete Before Release

HDD........Hard Disc Dickhead ( not High Definition.)

NAPF.......Retail Store Chain(Never Allow a Pigeon to Flee)

COYS........Check it Out Yourself Sh.thead

IMPO.......I'm right and everyone else is wrong.

RRP......Figure double the correct retail price.

WANKERS WEEKLY.....Newsletter for those Forum Members with Personality Defects that require them to take a Friendly ,Pleasant and Informative Topic and corrupt it with Personal Insults to satisfy their Ego and Ignorance(ie lack of Knowledge.).

PMFP....Pardon Me For Posting.(Contempt for a Person or Post from the old Network Forums.

Get Fu..ked.....phrase included in PM's after a Post like this.

to be continued........

For my part I can only apologise for any perceived surliness in my previous posts.

guys i'm not in the market for one of these but I too was bloody amazed to see jb today having the base model pioneer dvd recorder for sale at $399 with a challenge for anyone to ask for a jb deal - I overheard someone ask and they came back with $376 and there was still haggling going on after. Pretty bloody good for a dvd recorder I must say.

Theres been price drops right across the pioneer range, eg their 969 dvd player thats had close to 50% off. Some of their HT amps that have had thousands taken off the price - so don't think this pricing is anything to do with the dvd recorders per say. Theres been other manufacturers take heaps off their rrp lately too. EG. Nad's 163 pre-pro selling for rrp $1499 now down from $2,000 - hell it was selling in the US for $2000US only last year ! theyve similarly dropped prices off the pwr amps and across quite a few products in their range. Arcams prices have dropped too significantly in the last few months.

perhaps this is all dollar related or just competition. Whatever the reason why argue about it !

Another possibility, if you can believe the major players, is that retail has become a lot tougher the last few months, cause people aren't spending, and things have had to come down to move off the shelves.

Whilst this thread goes on and on a quick question, if connecting the 720H upto a Pioneer Plasma (PDP 435 XDE) what would be the best connection (I assume via the digital box) but what cables/connectors?

Alec

Thanks for that....appreciated.

Basil, ROTFL at your post!

I guess it pays to keep in mind that this is an informal internet discussion forum rather than a peer-reviewed scientific journal. If a guy from "Wanker's Weekly" thinks all Pioneer stuff is crap, I can, at least give his opinion all the credit it deserves!! Anyone else is at liberty to do the same with my opinions

Most of us are in Oz and unfortunately don't have access to the Pioneer models with the media box containing digital tuner(s). Also we don't yet get the new model DVD recorders or free plane trips to NY or Boston .

But if you can send your gear over here, I can have a look at it and advise you accordingly

Depends a bit on whether you've just spent or are about to do so.

Oh hell, why worry! I'm always in both the "just spent" and the "about to" camps. I also get the impression I'm no orphan on this forum!

Component, I guess, unless you are in the UK and need to do scart to scart carrying RGB. Probably no real difference in quality between the two.

3 RCA plugs at either end. And I would not buy monsterously expensive cables.

Clearly. Though the discussion part seems to worry people who have posted drivel.

I have no problem with people giving opinions - as long as they are the same as mine.

I didn't really pay anything for the pioneer 520h I'm using - it's a work toy - and I don't really think I'm that emotionally attached to it. It is pretty good for video capture (I can chapter mark during HDD capture which makes a focused playback a breeze).

Hi
Accepted too, sorry for my last Post it should have ended after the first sentence, i had already made my point, nothing meant by it just trying to be a smart rrs. I just thought you were a bit tough on the original Post, it was a pretty easy mark.
Lets move on.

Regards

Basil

Basil, the HDD or DVD recording on the Pioneer depends on the source such as the VCR, Analog TV and digital TV and how and what way you do it.

I have found high speed copying as so much better than real time, not so much on saving time. It is the picture is a little better on a fast copying too.

I found this on copying a DVD-RW disc onto another HDD recorder as so much better than doing real time copying on a DVD-R disc.

Someone would have to expect a source of the VCR wouldn't be all that too good to copy as of recording from an analog TV signal and better still from a digital TV signal coming from an STB.

This would depend on the videotape picture quality too.

I also do find that the SP recording data rate as a bit too low compared with commercial DVDs.

The recording data transfer bit rate is around 4 Mbps and the playing commercial DVDs are around 6 Mbps.

I find to be beneficial to record on the HDD as ‘fine’ record, and then edit it and into the DVD as SP.

I don’t have a real opinion if Pioneer is better or worse comparing with other brands though.

I have learnt that 4 Mbps is around the same as from SD digital TV broadcast as this isn’t quite as good as commercial DVDs found at the shop or the video store.

Despite all that, I found as great buying a new Pioneer 160 GB HDD recorder just for more space on my recording needs.

I am going to test the SP recording from the Toppy into the HDD recorder. This is going to be on CH7 News as widescreen.

I am doing this to compare if the new machine as better, the same or worse on performance to that of my older model of Pioneer.

The result: the SP of SD digital TV is just about the same as before and this depends on the TV station's content when broadcasting.

SD DTV is typically above 6mbps that's why you don't get the amount of storage/recording time on your Toppy as the marketing material says.

The Toppy is 44 hrs for 4 Mbps stream on an 80 GB HDD.

I don't think the SD DTV bit rate is as that high of 6 Mbps and not quite as good as commercial DVDs.

That's what's quoted but not the reality. There are some taps that show the bit rate and it's definitely not 4mpbs. You can also do a quick calc. Take a recording convert it's file size to bits and devide by the number of seconds.

I have seen the words "discontinued" and Pioneer 720H come up more and more over the last week.

For example see
http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/mo...Product_ID/1965

There are other sites. Anyways, I was at Encel today and the shop owner was spouting some bull about having unloaded all his dvd recorders becuase there was a raft of new ones coming through at the end of the financial year.

Put this together with the big price drops on all the recorders, and as the 720 is effectively the 520 with an upgrade and finally add this to the fact that Pioneer do have the 920 (but have stated they won't be shipping these to OZ) and we get a confusing picture.

I am happy with purchasing the 720 but if is about to drop another $300 bucks in three weeks I might wait.

Any comments?

In a previous reply, I made the assumption you were in the UK as you referred to the Pioneer 435 XDE (European model not available in Aust.) with a "digital box". However, the Encel bit suggests you are in Melbourne. So, if my reply didn't make sense......

Very true. Bought one last week, and have it on ebay right now. Great recorder, but the rca input picture quality is not good, compared to my old Panasonic DMR-E100, whose hdd broke and I didnt bother fixing.

Super video was fine on the Pioneer 520, but my foxtel digital box cant output s-video without massive lines and picture errors, so for the short term, I need a recorder which does a good job with rca in, component out to my tv.