Yuck.

Seriously, I cannot explain in words how incredibly bad and offensive the new ABC logo is. On international terms it's purely embarrassing. It looks like something from the '80s but worse. A disgusting legacy of Jonathan Shier's reign that should be swept under the carpet, not stuck on everything.

Well, it seems to already be there. Not sure if its fainter then the single tone one or if its just that only part of the 3D logo is really visable.

Still, its got to go, one way or another.

It looks larger than the old single colour mark? Maybe the ABC are changing it all the time, on purpose, so that we never get use to it

Oh my God - it's huge.

The final draft revision #17 for the ABC logo watermark on ABCTV. Most liked by ABC management as making a bold statement and thumbing their noses at the critics...

http://home.iprimus.com.au/steveswayne/misc/abc_logo.jpg

LOL Good one, but I think they have already gone past revision #17

Well, since I'm one of the more vocal shytemark haters, I feel compelled to say that - if the thing that was on last night and today is anything to go by - I prefer the so-called 3D (aka faint) one to the phat-arsed Mr Blobby Kiddies version that it replaced... I'd rather it were smaller, but there's no comparison between a ghost (aka current one) and a Michelin Man (aka Mr Blobby)!

No doubt the luminance will be tweaked up next week sometime at the request of upper ABC management again?

It will probably end up being the same as the News/Current Affairs mark.

Well I've been avoiding this thread until I realised ABC has been fiddling around with it yet again.

Just as a comparison I have pasted the two 3-d versions onto a jpg which displays the relative opacity and position of the latest one as compared to the previous 3-d incarnation.

The bottom right corner of this jpg is absolute, so as you can see the bug has moved fully to the left of its previous position, is higher and bigger.

Still, it's better than the very bright 2-d one.

pic here

I agree, it's better now than it's ever been.

Still a rubbish piece of design work though.

the seven digital logo is in the bottom right corner of the broadcast so if u have a 4:3 set and did it in 4:3 full screen mode u dont see it... now if the other commerical and national broadcasters did this all ppl would have to do was swtich to 4:3 mode on their 4:3 tv and presto no watermark.. however for us 16:9 ppl we will see have to see it :ph34r:

Well, digital television is widescreen. Seven is doing the right thing by placing the watermark outside the 4:3 and 14:9 safe zone.

The 3D watermark looks like it was designed by a child - I actually believe that is possible the way that the ABC is being run these days (personal opinion so don't bother quoting me).

I think the intensity of the DOG spew was slightly increased today.

The same X-Logo bitmap yesterday totally removed the crap, but today there's a very slight residue. Also, comparing identical frames from the DW title sequence, it looks like it might be slightly brighter today.

They just can't leave it alone. Always got to be playing with it. I'm sure it must make Darth excited.

ahh, so it wasn't just me then. dam it, now I need new bitmap images.
Wonder if I could just "adjust" my existing ones

Been a while since I looked here, so this reply is a little late:

If you buy a computer montor there is a policy on getting a replacement for dead pixels (5- I think - and less on some models)

How big are pixels in comparison to a watermark? Of course a WM affects picture quality. Picture quality refers to a number of things, not just compression artifacting, or saturation, or dropouts, etc. It only takes one aspect to be faulty to render a program technically sub-standard and potentially have it rejected for broadcast. So it is hypocritical to then slap a logo over the top of the image.

And then, how many monitors do you think Sony or Philips or Samsung or Acer, etc. would sell if they had a brand name embedded permanently into the actual picture? The watermark devalues the ABC. The last time I watched anything from start to finish on the ABC was over four months ago. I used to watch them more than the others combined.

I already know what I'm watching - I just look at the VCR/STB/software control if I ever have any doubt. Even if I can't see it from where I am, it doesn't bother me not to know for a few seconds

I haven't watched much television while overseas, but have noticed another couple of things about watermarks over here. On freeview in the UK, as said before there are no watermarks on the five main channels except for some kids programmes, even breakfast television has a very minimalist look. On the purely digital channels though, ITV3 for one leaves their logo on all the time, even during commercial breaks!
In the US as you can imagine they are huge and various. I have noticed thought that HBO doesn't appear to have a watermark, and on other channels some programmes appear to be watermark free (although as I was just surfing channels at the time I can't be too sure about this).
I was hoping the ABC would have come to its senses by the time I got home, but it appears that this will not be the case.

Is funny how much less FTA and PAY TV I watch these days, as such I do not notice them or am bugged by the watermark/bug nonsense that occurs these days. However, I did notice something really bad when surfing through FTA last night just after I got home, SLIME Television had a SMS Poll graphic which took up the whole lower third of screen during all of Home and Away. No, I am not a Home and Away viewer, but I sat gobsmacked at this piece of graffiti-marketing driven bulldust going to air. $even did not run this on Home and Away, but give them time! And as soon as they start doing it, the friggin ABC will do it too, so as to imitate the commercial networks instead of innovating which is sadly, no longer the case at the ABC. Thank gawd for internet downloads and DVD, local FTA is so irrelevant now, its gone as far as I am concerned. Local FTA can keep going on with its marketing driven nonsense of making people feel like they are marketing targets instead of the viewers they once were, thus driving more and more people away from watching them. The thinking and mindsets at Australian FTA is so last century, as the business decisions that are being continually made by them are being done as if they were still operating in a monopoly sense, that they once were, thinking that people have nothing else to do but watch FTA. Thank gawd we can all escape them and their nonsense thesedays with the many other alternatives available to us.

ct

Watermarks introduce more compression artifacts into an already bandwidth straved transmission.

it disappeared on saturday night.
anyone know why?

it did? It was still there during Doctor Who and I switched off after that.

Maybe it was only in Sydney then.

The whole Dalek episode, no watermark.
Little Britian, no watermark.
The Bill, no watermark.
Parkinson, no watermark, the show after Parkinson, no watermark.
Then I went to bed.

It was wonderful. I just kept looking at that clean corner.

Then it was back on Sunday.

No watermark, no overscan?

Yeah, sounds like only Sydney, becuase it was there in Adelaide and of course still there

So where do they "inject" the watemarks then? Adelaide could've put it on their end noticing that other states (maybe) didn't have it for some reason... hmmm

Perth didn't lose the freakin' thing

BTW: Entertaining stuff-up at the end of the ABC news last night ... they went to put on some dreary footage of kids ballroom dancing and ... oops .. they hadn't cued it... is ABC Perth now getting its feed from Canberra?!?!? (Or was that just the source of the boring clip).

The ABC bug/watermark is inserted/super-imposed at Network Presentation which is in Sydney for the network feed only. Live news programs in each state super it on at studio level, as does local and national sport at OB level. Sydney viewers only do get occassional programming without out it due to the Sydney feed being switched away from the dirty network feed to a direct machine or server feed of the network program via a separate MC/Pres switcher. The Sydney feed does not have a bug inserter yet, it is on its way I am told, sad to say, just waiting to be installed. The Sydney feed breaks away from the dirty network feed sometimes so as to insert local 2BL voice overs on the end of programs, Sydney audience calls and Sydney Symphony commercials. (Yes I call Sydney Symphony promos commercials, as the SSO is no longer an ABC activity)

ct

In widescreen on my 4:3 TV.

No watermark. Anywhere.

If it was a mistake, an error, I wish they'd make it more often, like all the time.

I've written to the ABC to thank them for a "clean" nights viewing that Saturday and to let them know I tuned out on Sunday when the wm returned.

I continue to write letters to the ABC requesting they remove the wm, letting them know I won't be watching again until they do. And to my federal MP.

Meanwhile, reading more, listening to music and SBS has some quiet interesting programming ...

yeah, SBS tonight, Cutting Edge looks pretty interesting, its time I started to watch that more, before I get to the point of not watching any FTA TV.

Not if we intercept it and smash it to a million bits and pieces! Grrrrrrrr. One heavy sledge-hammer will fix that lot. :ph34r:

The logo was gone here in Perth during Grumpy Old Women and it felt good...
I might have to email the ABC and thank them for taking it off.
And complain about it re-appearing on The Bill.

I've found "The Cutting Edge" doco series especially fasinating the last few months.
And the 10pm "Hot Doc" series has been extremely interesting as well.
Both leave commercial programs like "40 minutes" for dead.
Just my opinion of course.

And hey, no wm on "Leisure Hive" 4. Not that any cares as we all own the DVD.

I had a breif flick over, but it still had the WM, so I guess this just must be Sydney. Maybe I should ring up and complain that the rest of the country isn't getting any WM free broadcast

But, like you say, watched the DVD over the weekend, along with the extra's so yeah, it doesn't matter at all for this story.

Still 3 is wayyy to many http://img250.echo.cx/img250/761/3sundaywater3yf.jpg

Nicely caught.
ABC2 is good for that sort of thing as well ....

Yep. Missed too many, sadly ... don't always remember the timeslot - and it doesn't help when they switch things about for any sporting event on the planet.

Wrt Leisure Hive ... funny seeing the young David Haig (with green hair)!

I wrote a very nice letter to the ABC to thanks them for removing the watermark last saturday evening here in Sydney. And to let them know I tuned out on Sunday when it came back.

Problem is of course that we are dealing with "corporate excutives" aka "suits".

Indeed. In the past couple of weeks alone, I've learned more than I ever wanted to know about nudists, how Realdolls are manufactured, and what constitutes the perfect penis Unfortunately, SBS docos aren't entirely bug-free. Whoever is responsible for the stylised "A" logo that appears on historical war footage deserves to be held down while it's marked on their cheek, preferably with a branding iron.

Some of the best docos on SBS are the repeats in the early afternoon. I always check for these the night before and set my timer (incidentally, I think SBS's TV guide is the best--none of this separate pages for morning/afternoon/night rubbish with each programme description on a separate page again). The two-part one on the India/Pakistan nuclear arms race was a gem, as are many of the feature-length independent and PBS docos they show. Interestingly, I've noticed the PBS docos tend to be less emotive than your typical ABC or BBC doco--the latter are too often sexed-up with music, visual effects and dramatic narration. And when the ABC gets their fingers on a PBS doco, they butcher it to fit in the short Four Corners timeslot.

No WM on DW Melglos Pt.03 last night.
It's been missing from a few shows at odd times here in Sydney.
They must be working on that "bug inserter" someone mentioned previously ....

Meanwhile; I was looking at this site:

http://625.uk.com/dogwatch/

for the first time in a few years. It's interesting how everything done a few years ago over seas is turning up now on our imaginitive networks. It's nice to see that some networks dropped their "helpful" WMs after enough complaints.

And site is also worth a look:

http://logofreetv.org/

I continue to write and complain.
I hope you're doing the same.
After all they keep telling us its our ABC.

I have not contributed to this forum for a number of years but the ABC visual haemorrhoid has galvanized me to pass on the following.

The standard ABC response to objections to the WM are as we know three-fold

1. It’s a worldwide trend (every one is doing it)
2. It protects copyright and piracy
3. It allows identification of the channel

Below are my responses to the ABC sent recently:

1.(Kappa) I have recently returned (June 2005) from a months stay in the UK.
Please note that BBC1, BBC2, ITV1, channels 4 and FIVE, SKY Movie channels 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, SKY Cinema 1 and 2 have either all removed (or have no) watermarks during their major program transmissions.

I asked a senior person at channel FIVE in the UK why and he stated that the watermark was removed some years ago because it basically “pissed people off” and FIVE was now about quality programs and they (FIVE) did not want to be identified as another “cheaper” looking digital channel.

2.

(Kappa) ….this can no longer be regarded as valid. It is now relatively easy for even a novice to remove logos if they are intent on doing so. See the following internet sites for FREE codecs to achieve this.

http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=Virtua...Logoaway_filter
http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=Virtua...n_Remove_Filter

However, I doubt that those individuals intent on copying and distribution would worry to much about a logo in any case.

But more to the point can the ABC point to any specific cases where ABC material has gone astray?. I doubt it!.

If the BBC1 and BBC 2 and others are not doing it for their material why should the ABC do it for the same programs.?

3. This hardly needs any comment as it is just silly and nonsensical

So, was it just Adelaide or did everyone get the green spew watermark at the start of Doctor Who Wednesday night.

Not only do these idiots inflick a watermark on us, they screw it up as well!!!!

Well, this was a perfect reason to send a new email to the ABC, haven't done one in a while, so I let them have it...

No, we got the same in Sydney. Also at the end of the program there was something strange happening as the white image didn't fade but was extended longer than normal.

Yesterday, they also stopped the watermark halfway through the program but we had a Sydney only voice-over at the end of the program so that may have had something to do with it.

It's a shame we have to see our money being wasted in such a reckless fashion by the morons in charge and that standards are rapidly dropping.

Has anybody else noticed that they still have residual clicks in the digital audio streams from time to time? They are quite soft now, but they are still noticable. They used to be very loud, and it took them about 6 months to reduce those to the current level.

On a slightly different topic, did anybody notice that SBS broadcast the movie "Love and Death on Long Island" on Monday night and used a US NTSC DVD as source material? They happened to show the trailing US ratings certificate and logo of the DVD compression company at the end of the movie, and a quick look at the video showed that it was interlaced with the hallmark attributes of a (poor) conversion from NTSC to PAL. My guess is that they didn't (or couldn't) effectively drop the extra frames to take it from 30fps to 24fps and then speed it up to 25fps. It looks like they might have run it through an interpolation from 30fps directly to 25fps because the running time was exactly the same as the US DVD running time.

Yes, still noticing the clicks in ABC audio. Seems to occur mainly on the right channel.
Not watching the ABC much anymore, so hard to say how often its happening.

Just saw the opening to last nights DW here in Sydney.
Episode 01 of story 113 broadcast July 13th and yes, we got the green spew as well.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Yep, the vomit was there on ABC Perth, 2 hours later...

I realised I should have put this here earlier, but SBS are reviewing their Code of Practice and submissions close today

http://www20.sbs.com.au/sbscorporate/index.php?id=1179

I sent them a nice letter explaining why they don't need watermarks and perhaps they should think about writing it into their guidelines. You can do the same via email, but it has to be today.

Cheers,

Done.

and also done

I had the misfortune of channel surfing at 7.35pm on a Staurday night and saw the ABC logo vandalism that was on Doctor Who. Was a tad shocking compared to the bug free viewing of this series I have instead enjoyed via internet download. Shame on those at the ABC who think such marketing driven nonsene as this is really required. One day there will be a change of Federal Govt again, and as such, a change of ABC management and thinking to go with it, who knows? The ABC is fast going down to the status of being beyond repair at this deterioating rate of decline, perfect for commercial sell off.

ct