It would be interesting to see the consistantcy of HDTV bitrates around the country - after all, the most limiting factor on HDTV picture quality ATM is the low bitrates given to HD video.

Can people in other areas post the bitrates of their HD services?

Adelaide:

ABC
14.000 Mbps, 448kbits AC3

Seven
9.000 Mbps, 384kbits AC3

Nine
14.997 Mbps, 448kbits AC3

Ten
12.800 Mbps, 256kbits AC3

SBS
7.650 Mbps, 224Kbps MPEG audio

TSReader outputs for Sydney, Canberra, Illawarra, Mackay, Brisbane, Hobart and Perth.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/wyp/dtvinfo/

For Perth
ABC: 14mbit 448kbit AC3 at 1440x1088
Seven: 9mbit 384kbit AC3 720x576
Nine: 14mbit 448kbit AC3 1920x1088
Ten: 12.8mbit 256kbit AC3 1440x1088

I don't see why Perth can't get 15mbit HD if Adelaide have it. We don't have the VPG channel. There is enough spare space on the Nine mux to increase Nine HD by 1mbit and there'll still be .21mbits free.

It's cutting it too fine to only have 210kbits null packets.

If there is a sync problem or an encoder over-subscribes, they'll be off the air. Well, maybe not that dramatic, but have errors at least.

SBS get by with 400kbits of null stream.

Hey Champion,

Some of us (in Brisbane) would say they don't 'get by'. We sometimes lose SBS for weeks at a time!!

After reading the TSReader outputs from Travis for Adelaide, I reckon Perth (Other capitals other than Adelaide even more so) get shafted. Nine Digital in Adelaide is 6.2 or 6.3mbits compared to Perth's 6mbits although that's not the worst of it. Their HD service is .9mbits better than Perth's.

Adelaide doesn't have AC3 on Nine Digital which spares 256kbits which could serve HD and they have a null stream of .44mbits vs our 1.21mbit waste. Surely Nine Perth could draw 700 - 800kbits from the null stream to improve HD.

I am thankful that I don't get a 12mbit Nine HD like Melbourne but I wish Perth got 15mbit HD The difference between Ten's 12.8 and Nine's 14 is massive, another megabit could do so much for HD. Even an extra 700kbits bolted onto HD would be a welcome addition.

Nine Perth are pretty good in regards to HD so I'm not really complaining. I'm just in envy of Adelaide's 15mbit HD.

Here's a few low 1080i bitrates on DirectTV in the US: HDNet Movies is 1280x1080 @ 7.9mbits, Showtime HD is 1280x1080 @ 10.6mbits and HBO HD is 1280x1080 @ 10.0mbits.

What do Sydney HD viewers think of their HD being cut down by .5mbits to boost SD by .5mbits? Nine HD Sydney is now Australia's lowest bitrate 1080i channel. I think it's stupid taking bandwidth from an already starved channel to prop up a channel that already has ample bandwidth. Joe Average and their 4:3 TV can't even resolve the full resolution of SD so why are we wasting bandwidth on people who won't see any benefit but HD viewers will suffer dearly with the woeful bitrate of 11.8mbits.

I think SD should be a maximum of 5mbits on all channels and HD channels should upconvert SD content so people with better displays get a better signal and people with 4:3 CRTs wouldn't notice a thing. Retailers should be provided with a demo loop playing off DVHS or they can be stored on and played off a Satallite.

Just before I go, here's a rough draft of a graph showing the bitrates of channels in most capital cities. http://img100.exs.cx/img100/5839/DVBBitrates.gif, how much do you get shafted by your broadcasters?

As I've said in many of my posts on this subject: I think, rather than drain the life out of SD to prop up a moribund HD...

*Only put HD content on when good stuff is available and crank up the bitrate(and GMA is NOT good stuff!)
*Put your reality tv crap on SD on very low bitrate when the HD content is on.
*When there isnt good HD content, take from the HD bitrate to pump up the SD to WHAT IT IS CAPABLE OF!

NB: This inlcudes NOT showing the same high quality movie on HD & SD at the same time. (They do it for different markets, when there are "sporting committments", etc, so they CAN do it!)

There, that's my 1.2minute reply!

Once the SD bitrate hits 6mbits, there's little gain in going any higher. The source material will determine the picture quality at that point, not the bitrate. Nine HD in Sydney has pretty much had the life drained out of it to give a very marginal boost to SD. Why they didn't take the extra bits from their giant 2mbit+ null stream is beyond me.

Agree - with null streams, VPGs etc ; but wrt the SD at 6mbits - why then does nine's top SD PQ ALMOST ALWAYS look worse than the best of seven and abc, and often ten? Do they just source the worst PQ programmes? Cant they be bothered getting it right? {NB: I'm still to watch the Nine news on digital! I'll have to remember to record it some time!}

Nine SD in Perth has exactly the same bitrate as ABC SD. Nine have a lot of crappy looking SD shows I'll admit that but bitrate won't help them out. Millionaire still looks crap at 8mbits (Nine were preparing for multiview for the Rome program afterwards and the multiview channel was showing Millionaire at 8mbits. Still looked as bad as it did on the normal SD channel).

I agree about the Millionaire statement.

Well for me no more Ch9 HD on my pj not watching that $hit and wasting lamp life on poor quality signal especially on a large screen I'm VERY surprised Mr Packer is allowing this unless he is watching his network on a 32" screen

cheers laurie

... unless he and Ruprecht have cunningly agreed to reduce Nine FTA PQ (particularly with sports) to encourage the gullible to sign up for a Foxtel Digital package in a vain [and expensive] search for better PQ (as if ... !!!)?

... or maybe he has reduced Nine FTA PQ to make Foxtel Digital look less bad?

Ian
A very good friend of mine{RIP} had connections with nine and he was telling me the techs at MCR use to wet their paints if someone stuff's up TX during sports especially when he got control of the cricket he was rather fussy about picture quality/content so it must mean he is no longer pro active in the day to day running of the network anymore

cheers laurie

Nine HD in Perth has increased to 14.5mbits + 448kbits for AC3 audio.

Dont tell me I dont deliver ... your Christmas present - and over a month early! (What?!? Now you want the other 0.5mbits? Talk about gift horses!)

From what I've been told, it'd be very difficult for them to get another 500kbits without cutting bandwidth from other PIDs.

thats excellent! now only 500kbits behind adelaide. ha ha

But we don't have a watermark! The watermark detracts from viewing and it also takes a considerable amount of bandwidth to stop it smearing, especially in the case of the Nine WM which has the middle of the Nine and the nine circles.

Stupid bastards* (boy I hate water-freakin-marks )

Why dont they just allocate a single channel where all the stations can simply proudly show their watermark ... one beside the other! (And maybe show parliamentary question time in the background...)


___________________
*Those that DO send the watermark, that is....

I hate watermarks too.

We'll probably always be lagging behind Adelaide in raw bitrate because we've got TAB stuff on the teletext PID whereas Adelaide only have closed captions. Nine also offer Dolby on SD here whereas in Adelaide they only offer MPEG audio.

Okay,

Here in Perth, Seven Low Def has gained 1/2 a megabit from the null stack. Still looks like pants but a little less bodge than before. SD has still lost 1/2 a megabit to the guide.

So no more gripe about having a massive null stack on purpose?

Well they're sitting on about 384kbits of null packets which is pretty good but they have 2mbits+ of VPG.

VPG and null packets are as useful as each other. Opps, sorry, null packets actually serve a purpose up to a given level but a VPG is good for nothing.

Congratulations! The First decent, albeit mild, word you've said about Seven in How long?

Can any sane person explain to me why Seven should receive any positive comments? Please list them straight away.

Like Robert said, they deserve no praise, they are full bodge. Nine in Perth and Adelaide have achieved an even lower level of null packets and they use a 23mbit mux. Smaller mux = less null packets needed.


Exactly.

And Nine Sydney is much lower, isn't it?

Yes because they are running in stat mux mode.