45 replies to this topic

[Vidman]

Ive levelled my purchase decision down to one of these 2 big screens:

Sharp LC-70LE735X which is a 70" LED LCD

Panasonic TH-P65VT30A which is a 65" Plasma

They're both priced at around the same amount, the panasonic probably has the better picture, but is 5" inferior to the Sharp.

Its going in a dedicated home theatre room so I want the largest available.

For the past 5 years we've had a Sony 70" bravia full HD rear pro -- so ideally we dont want to divert from that screen size too much.

We mostly watch TV and Movies -- not a huge amount of sport.

Any opinions?

[Quark]

If it's a light controlled room, have you considered a projector?  A much bigger picture for similar dollars.

[Vidman]

It is a light-controlled room.

However I'm a little dubious about projectors and the quality of the image looking as crisp as a good plasma or lcd where the blacks are true and there is no screen-door effect.

I'm sure a projector would be good for a blu-ray movie, but I'm worried that blowing up a standard-def digital TV image to wall-sized is just going to look horrible...

But if someone knows different i'm open to convincing.

[Quark]

The current generation of HT projectors don't have an issue with screen door effect at any reasonable viewing distance.

The blacks won't be as good as a really good plasma (I went from a Pioneer 608), but I'd say many current projectors are better than most LCDs.

Poor SD e.g. 1960s reruns are gonna look awful on any modern tech and a bigger screen will highlight this.

I'd suggest you have a look at some current projector models before you make a call.  Whereabouts are you based?

[Vidman]

I'm in the bayside area of Melbourne.
I'm also a little worried about a projector with regards to ideally needing to use it in a blacked out room. We usually watch movies and tv in a dimmed but not totally blackened out room.

[pietro]

I went from the 70" SXRD to the 65" Panasonic with trepidation but I soon adapted to the decrease in size. And the Panasonic picture is superb.

[Vidman]

Yeah that's exactly what I have now. The Sony 70" sxrd rear pro.

Cost me $6600 back in 2007 and the optical block has died. Sony don't make replacement parts for it anymore. Bloody pathetic that a tv of that cost only lasts 5 years. That's $1320 per year which is a joke.

Anyone have the 70" sharp who can give any feedback?

[Quark]

Vidman, on 09 February 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

I'm in the bayside area of Melbourne.
I'm also a little worried about a projector with regards to ideally needing to use it in a blacked out room. We usually watch movies and tv in a dimmed but not totally blackened out room.

Pop down to Clef HiFi in Sth Melbourne - they've got some good demo rooms.  If you're not in a rush I'm sure there'll be some projectors on display at the GTG 24 March at The Cable Connection.

[jliang70]

Vidman, on 08 February 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

It is a light-controlled room.

However I'm a little dubious about projectors and the quality of the image looking as crisp as a good plasma or lcd where the blacks are true and there is no screen-door effect.

I'm sure a projector would be good for a blu-ray movie, but I'm worried that blowing up a standard-def digital TV image to wall-sized is just going to look horrible...

But if someone knows different i'm open to convincing.

I have seen the panasonic VT30 but not the Sharp LCD.  I have a JVC X3 projector which has far superior PQ than VT30,  the colour reproduction and contrast level is far superior than VT30.  If you want to squeeze the best PQ out of SD stuff try a dedicated scaler.  A used DVDO V50 can be bought for about $400 and it makes SD stuff almost HD like.  I use a VP50 for more than 5 years it is a reliable machine (it is not dead yet) and only part replacement required is the power transformer.  I also use Lumagen scaler it makes the SD PQ even sharper than VP50 and  are also  more expensive than an used VP50 but it does take the overall PQ of my Samsung TV and JVC to another level.

[Vidman]

I popped into Clef Hifi in South Melbourne and took a look at their projector setup. Pretty impressive. However a good projector+screen+mounts+installation would equal around $6000 whereas the other sets I'm looking into would be around the $4000 region.

Also to get the best out of a projector you really need a blacked out room, and we tend to watch most movies and tv in a dimmed room, so not sure a projector is going to necessarily suit.

With regard to the scaler.... my Topfield PVR you can set the output to 1080i or 720p I think -- even if the channels are only 576i. Is this the same as what the scaler you're referring to does or is it something completely different?

[Quark]

For a JVC X30 agree you're probably talking $6K installed with a screen.  There are more affordable options, but sounds like you're not convinced a projector is the way to go and that's fine, as it's your money.  

The scaling on the Topfield won't be anywhere near as good as a DVDO or Lumagen.

[Vidman]

So whats the DVDO and Lumagen? A box you plug the HDMI out of the PVR into before it goes into your TV or Receiver to help clean up and upscale the SD image?

[Owen]

I have a 70" Sony SXRD and a JVC X3 projector with 100" screen, no way I would swap the Sony for a 65" or similar Plasma and I would not take the Sharp LCD as a gift.

For a light controlled environmnet a good projector like the JVC completely outclasses any flat panel for picture quality. Beautiful natural colour, no pixelation, posterization, floating blacks, floating whites or any of the dynamic brightness BS that infests current flat panels, both LCD and Plasma. Contrast on the JVC's is much greater than any current flat panel and about the same as a Pioneer Kuro, however black level is potentially much lower.

A projector gives you a huge screen for movies and at the touch of a button a smaller screen for TV programs.

Edited by Owen, 09 February 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[Vidman]

Owen, on 09 February 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

I have a 70" Sony SXRD and a JVC X3 projector with 100" screen, no way I would swap the Sony for a 65" or similar Plasma and I would not take the Sharp LCD as a gift.

For a light controlled environmnet a good projector like the JVC completely outclasses any flat panel for picture quality. Beautiful natural colour, no pixelation, posterization, floating blacks, floating whites or any of the dynamic brightness BS that infests current flat panels, both LCD and Plasma. Contrast on the JVC's is much greater than any current flat panel and about the same as a Pioneer Kuro, however black level is potentially much lower.

A projector gives you a huge screen for movies and at the touch of a button a smaller screen for TV programs.

I dont doubt that. I was pretty impressed by what I saw today. Great for movies but if you just want to watch some crappy reality tv or something with the lights on Im guessing not so great. And not something that needs to be 100" large. Ideally didnt want to have to blacken the room for every single thing we watch, and probably out of our price range at $6K +

[Quark]

Vidman, on 09 February 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

So whats the DVDO and Lumagen? A box you plug the HDMI out of the PVR into before it goes into your TV or Receiver to help clean up and upscale the SD image?

Have a look here and here.  They're not cheap!

[Vidman]

Quark, on 09 February 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

Have a look here and here. They're not cheap!

Holy sh*t I cant believe how much these are!
I was expecting $500 or less and these are over $2,000 which seems massively overpriced for what they are....

[Quark]

$2K - you were looking at the cheap stuff!

[jliang70]

Vidman, on 09 February 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Holy sh*t I cant believe how much these are! I was expecting $500 or less and these are over $2,000 which seems massively overpriced for what they are....

Cheapeast DVDO scaler is around $500 and the more expensive DVDO DUO is about $1000. Lumagen range starts at $1400 to $3500.  I use the cheapest Lumagen in my set up.  I think it is fair to say most people will say they are overpriced until they have one running in their system for a few weeks and then take it out of the system to then understand what is missing.   If you look at AVS forum there are heaps of people buying a JVC X3 projector  and Lumagen 3D mini instead of the more expensive JVC X7 and astonished about the performance of the chaper combo compare to a more expensive projector.

[Vidman]

Do they work as well with a LCD or Plasma or are they really moreso designed for use with projectors?

[Owen]

The Lumagen Mini 3D has the same processing as the more expensive models and only costs about $1500. If you go with a good projector you dont need a video processor.

A JVC X30 with mount and screen can be done for under $5k if you can drive a drill and a screw driver. You wont get the worlds best screen at that price but it will be very acceptable.

The 70" Sony is likely repairable for a few hundred dollars if it has the common fault and should be as good as new. It will still provide a better free to air TV picture than a Plasma or LCD IMHO.

Edited by Owen, 09 February 2012 - 06:32 PM.

[jliang70]

Vidman, on 09 February 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Do they work as well with a LCD or Plasma or are they really moreso designed for use with projectors?

The role of a scaler is to deinterlace/upscale any viewing material to the native resolution of the displaying device so they will work well with any type of display.  The more expensive models like DVDO Duo and Lumagen adds CMS and other features to further enhance the PQ.   JVC X3 and X30 are very good projectors and most people  will not need a scaler but if you want to get more out of SD stuff and ease of calibration then Lumagen can get you there.

Edited by jliang70, 09 February 2012 - 09:29 PM.

[Owen]

If you are using a set top box or PVR it can only be set for one output pixel format at a time and cannot change to match the format of the channel being displayed. So if you set it to 1080i/p to take advantage of the HD channels the SD channels will be deinterlaced and up scaled by the set top box-PVR not the video processor. If you set the set top box-PVR to SD output so the video processor can do its job HD channels will be crippled.

The need to go into the set top boxes or PVR's menu and change the output format depending on the channel being viewed just so the expensive video processor can do its job is highly impractical and a deal beaker as far as I am concerned.

[Vidman]

My Topfield PVR can set the video output to AUTO which switches the display output to whatever the channel is broadcasting.
Would this setting work most efficiently though a scaler?

I agree, screwing around with the output every time you wanted to change the channel would be a nightmare....

Oh and btw the 70" Sony Rear Pro cannot be repaired. Sony no longer make any replacement parts for these SXRD TVs

Im probably going for a 65" Panasonic Plasma since a projector setup is out of my price range along with the fact we rarely watch TV and movies in a totally blacked out room. And since projectors need zero ambient light to work properly otherwise the blacks are anything but pure.

I do like the idea of a scaler box that can clean up and improve shitty SD Digital TV broadcasts, but I am nervous spending $1500 without knowing just how improved the picture quality would be.

Edited by Vidman, 13 February 2012 - 11:14 PM.

[foxtail]

Had 4 PJ's over the years moved to new largish apartment 3 years ago installed a 50"Pioneer 507 TV on wall, found after the PJ's screen not big enough, purchased an Epson PJ TW3200? with 92" motorised screen (to come down in front of TV), found it a pain swapping between PJ & TV. In January 2010 sold Pioneer TV and PJ and installed Panasonic 65" V10 best of both worlds big picture and easy to use, cant fault the TV, we sit about about 3.5m from it.

IMO if you have a real home theatre room of decent size don't require a TV in it then think of a PJ only but with TV's getting larger each year and prices coming down its a good option.

Ps. was in USA Nov. last 70" Sharp TV going for $2499 at Sears.

Edited by foxtail, 15 February 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[Vidman]

I've gone with the 65" Panasonic plasma. Ran some extensive tests in store (Harvey Norman) to find the sharp 70" went to sh*t on any fast movement. Even just a character running across frame would badly pixellate. It just went to pieces when it csme to fast motion. So forget about watching sport on it.  Whereas plasma was perfect. Also the sharp 70" had something odd going on with the framerate display or refresh rate that made movies look like videotape. Not a good look.

Edited by Vidman, 15 February 2012 - 10:35 AM.