57 replies to this topic

[cwt]

IanD, on Dec 30 2011, 12:11 PM, said:

With a measly 600 pixels extra horizontal resolution, why would anyone bother spending money on such a poor incremental improvement that requires a new display and player?  It's only a minority that cares about black bars on their display.

The industry needs to realise that the money is in technology that is revolutionary, value for money and hooks the consumer interest:  it can't be replicated with incremental improvements on existing tech.

was such a revolution, but the studios are deluding themselves that they can make the same or more profit with only incremental improvements, and if they continue to frustrate the consumer with their DRM and outdated or botched masters, I predict Bluray will soon experience a decline.

OLED and VOD (if they can provide the bandwidth) will be such a revolution:  3D and 4K, not so much unless they piggyback 3D on OLED HMD and market to the younger generation.

+1 ;  something like the red  4k laser projector at the promised  price will stimulate the upmarket projector market . They will have the delivery system covered starting with their red 4k cameras . People in that market realise that led lamp projectors are so far an expensive stopgap I feel Its for that reason that a different aspect ratio doesnt appeal much either ; evolutionary not revolutionary indeed    

http://www.slashgear...-demo-08200854/

http://www.slashgear...-9750-18196641/

Edited by cwt, 30 December 2011 - 01:47 PM.

[Chicken Man]

IanD, on Dec 30 2011, 11:11 AM, said:

With a measly 600 pixels extra horizontal resolution, why would anyone bother spending money on such a poor incremental improvement that requires a new display and player?  It's only a minority that cares about black bars on their display.

The industry needs to realise that the money is in technology that is revolutionary, value for money and hooks the consumer interest:  it can't be replicated with incremental improvements on existing tech.

DVD was such a revolution, but the studios are deluding themselves that they can make the same or more profit with only incremental improvements, and if they continue to frustrate the consumer with their DRM and outdated or botched masters, I predict Bluray will soon experience a decline.

OLED and VOD (if they can provide the bandwidth) will be such a revolution:  3D and 4K, not so much unless they piggyback 3D on OLED HMD and market to the younger generation.

It's all very well to speak of things hoped for but what becomes a more certain reality is what is already here.  21:9 displays (2560 x 1080p) are already available and will be mass marketed by a number of companies this coming year. Blu-ray will easily upscale to the newer format's resolution offered by the display ...and without the irksome black bars.

Those 'black bars' consume 25% of the screen's viewing space when watching a CinemaScope movie, that is not inconsequential by any means. It's maintaining the vertical image height (and resolution) that matters. In fact, the promotion of 21:9 displays will enhance the take up of Blu-ray over the next few years as a default format to Super HD (for want of a format title).

I do not see Blu-ray falling away at all but will co-exist at least for another 5 years with DVD.
DVD should last for another decade as it is easily copied to other devices, illegal or not, it is that flexible, whereas Blu-ray is not. Blu-ray is more of an enthusiast's format and is decidedly difficult to make a copy of in terms of space required and the conversion to other useable devices.
  
Unless OLED displays can compete with Plasma and LCD displays on price and size it too will see a poor uptake. SED was a very promising technology but it could not compete on price with the now cheap Plasma's and LCD displays available. Consumer markets are most often price driven rather than technologically driven these days.Gadjets don't open pockets unless there is a use for them.

C.M

Edited by Chicken Man, 30 December 2011 - 02:16 PM.

[Chopsus]

For a new format to succeed Blu Ray it will need Average Joe Consumer to dedicate a 100+ inch space in his viewing room.

The reality is that not many consumers are interested in this, preferring to stick with a sub 40 inch screen and DVD.

Let's face it, BD is a waste on anything less than 40".

4K, realistically, will need 150"+ for the extra resolution (over BD) to be perceived.

At the end of the day it is really only fanatics like us that are prepared to dedicate this sort of wall real estate to a picture ..... Average Joe just 'aint that into it.

[Mining Man]

Chopsus, on Dec 30 2011, 03:16 PM, said:

For a new format to succeed Blu Ray it will need Average Joe Consumer to dedicate a 100+ inch space in his viewing room.

The reality is that not many consumers are interested in this, preferring to stick with a sub 40 inch screen and DVD.

Let's face it, BD is a waste on anything less than 40".

4K, realistically, will need 150"+ for the extra resolution (over BD) to be perceived.

At the end of the day it is really only fanatics like us that are prepared to dedicate this sort of wall real estate to a picture ..... Average Joe just 'aint that into it.

Further, a lot of Average Joe's material of choice is still low resolution, low bitrate FTA, which is possibly supplemented with some low resolution, low bitrate youtube or the like. So even if 4K was cheap, and AJ was happy to throw a 150" screen up in the living room, it's going to make ACA and TT look even worse.

If that's actually possible...

[:)]

Chopsus, on Dec 30 2011, 03:16 PM, said:

For a new format to succeed Blu Ray it will need Average Joe Consumer to dedicate a 100+ inch space in his viewing room.

The reality is that not many consumers are interested in this, preferring to stick with a sub 40 inch screen and DVD.

Let's face it, BD is a waste on anything less than 40".

4K, realistically, will need 150"+ for the extra resolution (over BD) to be perceived.

At the end of the day it is really only fanatics like us that are prepared to dedicate this sort of wall real estate to a picture ..... Average Joe just 'aint that into it.

main problem is you need to be sitting at 1-1.5 screen heights to appreciate 4K. can you see people moving their couches to 1-1.5m away from atleat a 1m high screen ? ridiculous especially when they realise at that screen distance anything else they watch eg blu-ray, dvd or TV is going to have very obvious screen door visibly pixelated and look pretty terible at that distance.

for any typical viewing distances eg 3.2m we use you would need a 200-250" screen that wont fit in any normal home because wont fit within our standard ceiling heights of 2.4-2.7m !

and that is before realisation we have no media format to handle 4K.

the whole idea of 4K in the home is plain silly and the OEMs starting to get pretty desparate to find some means of getting people to turn their gear over.

4K for commerical theatres to replicate imax makes all sense and a good thing. will give more reason to drag people in the movie theatres. but to start trying to make it something needed in the home sure is clutching for straws !  

[mello yello]

<post removed by Toshiba>

Edited by mello yello II, 30 December 2011 - 03:52 PM.

[mello yello]

<post removed by Sony>

Edited by mello yello II, 30 December 2011 - 03:53 PM.

[kulfi]

Chopsus, on Dec 30 2011, 03:16 PM, said:

The reality is that not many consumers are interested in this, preferring to stick with a sub 40 inch screen and DVD.

+1

I've seen way too many people spending over $1000 over the last week on 37" to 40" displays to use with their DVD players. That's a bit of a shame when you consider that decent 46" LCDs and 50" plasmas are available for less. When I asked them why they were buying tiny displays when the bigger ones were cheaper, they said it was because bigger screens would not fit into their wall units that were built for 29" TVs.

What was even more surprising was that they were happy to pay $75 for a branded DVD player when branded BD players were going for $99. Again, I asked them why they didn't want the BD player and the answer was that they bought a DVD player because a BD player can't play DVDs !!!  

[Chopsus]

Basic Marketing 101:

There needs to be a perceived need for there to be demand for a product.

Given how poorly the industry has educated the masses on Blu Ray and 1080, 4K has no chance.

[kulfi]

I thought there was a very big push towards these technologies but no real information. The 3D craze is dying down and the ads have been quite misleading.  

LG has launched a new TV that claims to be 4k but it really isn't -
http://www.smh.com.a...1230-1peqh.html

The TV's aspect ratio isn't 21:9 which brings us back to the VHS vs Betamax or BD vs HD-DVD wars .....

[Anden]

kulfi, on Dec 30 2011, 03:54 PM, said:

+1

I've seen way too many people spending over $1000 over the last week on 37" to 40" displays to use with their DVD players. That's a bit of a shame when you consider that decent 46" LCDs and 50" plasmas are available for less. When I asked them why they were buying tiny displays when the bigger ones were cheaper, they said it was because bigger screens would not fit into their wall units that were built for 29" TVs.

What was even more surprising was that they were happy to pay $75 for a branded DVD player when branded BD players were going for $99. Again, I asked them why they didn't want the BD player and the answer was that they bought a DVD player because a BD player can't play DVDs !!!  

In my own experience i purchased a new cabinet/stand 18 months before i even purchased  a new screen, and even then it took about 4 months of driving around to many b/m stores before finding the right one ( for my taste/purpose ).
Player wise i simply married it up to my then Pio LX 508 Kuro----lx bdp70a.
Times change both replaced with LX 609 and an OPPO BDP 95,
my own personal point is do the research on both the tech and stand and think down the road to accomadate something bigger and better if and when required.

[Chopsus]

kulfi, on Dec 30 2011, 06:29 PM, said:

I thought there was a very big push towards these technologies but no real information.

Precisely!

[PurpleIce]

Highjinx, on Dec 30 2011, 09:45 AM, said:

The fat lady may wanna sing but not yet it seems!......lagging behind DVD sales for sure, but steadly increasing volume and closing the gap. Players are sub $100.00 saw one at Coles yesterday.

Incidently, I work at Coles and thought this was cheap too, but then I looked at a few catalogues and saw blu-ray players for ~$70 (Laser brand or some such). Not saying they're good, but cheap for sure!

[yorac]

mello yello II, on Dec 30 2011, 03:42 PM, said:

<post removed by Toshiba>

mello yello II, on Dec 30 2011, 03:46 PM, said:

<post removed by Sony>

also of note the Blu-ray disc association is paying Sony $250,000 not to release any of their movies - crap - recently released shyte next year...............

[cwt]

:), on Dec 30 2011, 03:41 PM, said:

the whole idea of 4K in the home is plain silly and the OEMs starting to get pretty desparate to find some means of getting people to turn their gear over.

4K for commerical theatres to replicate imax makes all sense and a good thing. will give more reason to drag people in the movie theatres. but to start trying to make it something needed in the home sure is clutching for straws !  

Not to say their not trying Al ; Onkyo would love to make the 4k scaling chip a standard of sorts with the vida . A niche market for very big screens for sure ;I remember how chipsets [audio decoding ones] helped create the home theater we have today  but multichannel sound is more tangible than pixel size.

If we had cheap laser projectors  that lasted decades upgrades would be few/far between ; 3d is much more appealing to ce's  as this can be improved yearly as can be seen with the current generation   Would love for a company to upset the status quo and drag the others forward .. but who knows how long that'll take.

[...]

tonyjg, on Dec 30 2011, 01:54 PM, said:

Look at the piece of ***** that Sony released this year - this is their top 10 earners (US) - any list that has JACK AND JILL and ZOOKEEPER in it shows how bad SONY has become.  Wow... what a terrible list of films (barring Woody)

It's all Ok guys!!

All is forgiven Sony, we will now never dobut you again and you have finally supplied what we have been waiting for!

Monty Python and the Holy Grail on Blu Ray in March of 2012!!

If this is anything like the quality of the "Life of Brian" release I can't wait!

[yorac]

Given the rumours about Sony pulling out of Blu-ray, thought http://www.blu-ray.c.../?id=8010"]this[/url] might confirm otherwise and expect the 4K upscaling will excite a few people here as well...........

[kopthat]

Toshiba just unveiled a 55" 4K Glasses free 3D tv for around $10,000 at CES
so there will be a push to sell 4K on some level even if it is the set doing the old upscale trick
and the prices will slowly fall.

http://www.engadget....sses-free-3dtv/

Gotta trust Toshiba right (wonder if I can shove my stack of HD DVD's up their.....)

Edited by kopthat, 11 January 2012 - 03:03 PM.

[Anden]

Noice gotta love it,
                             Oh no another format war on the horizon already, i hope not yet
                             And then there are the 21 : 9 sets that are slowly trickling into the market.
                              

[Mr C]

Oh goody another format ... so we can throw out all that we have and buy another new thing.  I guess I might be in the minority here, but sometimes I think we should sit back and enjoy what we have.  IF and WHEN there is content for new formats that is when I will lean forward off of my chair and become interested.

[ELK007]

Mr C, on 11 January 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Oh goody another format ... so we can throw out all that we have and buy another new thing.  I guess I might be in the minority here, but sometimes I think we should sit back and enjoy what we have.  IF and WHEN there is content for new formats that is when I will lean forward off of my chair and become interested.

+1

[yorac]

Mr C, on 11 January 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Oh goody another format ... so we can throw out all that we have and buy another new thing.  I guess I might be in the minority here, but sometimes I think we should sit back and enjoy what we have.

and that is the choice you have, for example I am sticking with 5.1 (maybe 5.2 one day) because imho 7.1 front height width and every other convolution speakers is just throwing money away but ymmv..........

[Wags]

Hmmm, 4K TV's.

And I thought DVD looked fantastic back-in-the-day!

[yorac]

Wags, on 12 January 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Hmmm, 4K TV's.

Nah seen em a lot cheaper than 4K mate...........

[Anden]

yorac, on 12 January 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Nah seen em a lot cheaper than 4K mate...........

720 Pea