34 replies to this topic

[M&K Freak]

While exceptionally happy with my KI Pearl, because it's 2 ch only, I am thinking about purchasing a multi-channel SACD player. Can anyone recommend me something that will fit in reasonably well with my current system, without breaking he bank? Happy to conside 2nd hand.

Also, excuse my ignorance, but if I'm using the one set of unbalanced 7.1 (using 5.1) inputs as direct input from the BDP, how can I get the multi-channel audio input into the AV8003? Is the digital input (SPDIF TosLink or Coax) satisfactory, or even HDMI?

[:)]

M&K Freak, on Nov 18 2011, 01:17 PM, said:

While exceptionally happy with my KI Pearl, because it's 2 ch only, I am thinking about purchasing a multi-channel SACD player. Can anyone recommend me something that will fit in reasonably well with my current system, without breaking he bank? Happy to conside 2nd hand.

Also, excuse my ignorance, but if I'm using the one set of unbalanced 7.1 (using 5.1) inputs as direct input from the BDP, how can I get the multi-channel audio input into the AV8003? Is the digital input (SPDIF TosLink or Coax) satisfactory, or even HDMI?

M&K if trying to multichannel over analog its going to be a head ache and a half especially trying to get the bass right and the levels. one that doesnt break the bank ?

2nd hand, marantz 9500
http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=96238

or this, if going analog or over digital - which will have to be hdmi
cambridge 751bd,
http://www.dtvforum....&...t&p=1757951

I would stick to hdmi personally

[myrantz]

M&K Freak, on Nov 18 2011, 10:17 AM, said:

Is the digital input (SPDIF TosLink or Coax) satisfactory, or even HDMI?

Most AVRs only have 1 set of multi-chan ins.. So if that is used up by the BDP, I think your only option is to use HDMI (dont' think DSD can be sent over S/PDIF).

If only you have a Denon receiver, and one of those players with DenonLink (e.g. the BDP, or the old DVDs)... IMO that is better than HDMI but YMMV (i.e. disc spinner as transport, and AVR as DAC)...

ATM for multi channel I'm using a DVD 2930 DL3 to Denon 3808 and it works for me...

Most multi channel SACD players are universal players. If you like Marantz you can consider the DV-9500 on sale here? I have the cheaper 8400 and quite like it. Unfortunately they don't do DSD out on HDMI IIRC (At least the 8400 can't).

TBH I think multi channel is a con. When setup well 2 channel can be deceptively multi channel like. Problem with 2 channel is the sweet spot is a lot smaller (i.e. works for a single person but not at all for a crowd).

[blybo]

M&K Freak, on Nov 18 2011, 01:17 PM, said:

Also, excuse my ignorance, but if I'm using the one set of unbalanced 7.1 (using 5.1) inputs as direct input from the BDP, how can I get the multi-channel audio input into the AV8003? Is the digital input (SPDIF TosLink or Coax) satisfactory, or even HDMI?

Replace your BDP with a universal player such as the Cambridge 751BD or an Oppo 83/93/95 depending on budget and whether you want 3d or not. On any of these players you can use 7.1 outs or HDMI if your processor accepts it.

Edited by blybo, 18 November 2011 - 12:43 PM.

[:)]

blybo, on Nov 18 2011, 01:42 PM, said:

Replace your BDP with a universal player such as the Cambridge 751BD or an Oppo 83/93/95 depending on budget and whether you want 3d or not. On any of these players you can use 7.1 outs or HDMI if your processor accepts it.

then he will just be wondering what to do with the sony, as I am, since it is such a good player and shame to sell !

ps if planing to go over analog I'd stick to the 751 or 95 for their better analog output.

[norseman]

myrantz, on Nov 18 2011, 01:06 PM, said:

If only you have a Denon receiver, and one of those players with DenonLink (e.g. the BDP, or the old DVDs)... IMO that is better than HDMI but YMMV (i.e. disc spinner as transport, and AVR as DAC)...

+1

Still retain my 3930 to play SACDs (via DenonLink). I prefer it to HDMI from my Oppos. Agree that YMMV

[craigandkim]

M&K Freak, on Nov 18 2011, 01:17 PM, said:

While exceptionally happy with my KI Pearl, because it's 2 ch only, I am thinking about purchasing a multi-channel SACD player. Can anyone recommend me something that will fit in reasonably well with my current system, without breaking he bank? Happy to conside 2nd hand.
Also, excuse my ignorance, but if I'm using the one set of unbalanced 7.1 (using 5.1) inputs as direct input from the BDP, how can I get the multi-channel audio input into the AV8003? Is the digital input (SPDIF TosLink or Coax) satisfactory, or even HDMI?

Excuse my ignorance M&K,
but your bank may not be the same as my bank-gotta give a rough budget.

As already mentioned - in your scenario multi-channel hires SACD/DVD-A can only be output though analogue/HDMI- forget any references to Denon's proprietary link unless willing to buy ALL Denon gear.

Maybe you can consider consolidating the transport into one universal player (the current crop of BDP Universals- Denon. Marantz, Oppo, CA) looking at the particular features you'll require or keep the Pearl  for two channel analogue and buy a cheapie 2nd hand universal BDP like the oppo 80/83/SE for HDMI multichannel.

[GSpot]

M&K Freak, on Nov 18 2011, 10:17 AM, said:

Also, excuse my ignorance, but if I'm using the one set of unbalanced 7.1 (using 5.1) inputs as direct input from the BDP, how can I get the multi-channel audio input into the AV8003? Is the digital input (SPDIF TosLink or Coax) satisfactory, or even HDMI?

Why are you using the analogue inputs anyway? You have an HDMI capable BD player and pre-pro. Use HDMI from the Sony and get a cheap universal player (not BD) and use the analogue inputs. Or get a slighlty newer universal player (still not BD) that has HDMI and send it as PCM via HDMI.

[cooksta]

M&K Freak, on Nov 18 2011, 12:47 PM, said:

Also, excuse my ignorance, but if I'm using the one set of unbalanced 7.1 (using 5.1) inputs as direct input from the BDP, how can I get the multi-channel audio input into the AV8003? Is the digital input (SPDIF TosLink or Coax) satisfactory, or even HDMI?

The AV8003 decodes DSD so a Bluray player that sends DSD via hdmi will give you 5.1. All of the current Sony bluray players play sacd and will do this (80 series).
I use this method Oppo 83se to Marantz 8002avr.
DSD wikipedia

[texass44]

I'm also looking to pick up a new BD player.

Initial thoughts were a CA 751bd....but I'm struggling with budget.  My list now includes
1. Sony BDP s580
2. Pioneer BDP-140 or BDP-440.

I can't seem to locate any PIO BDP-440's in Melbourne or much on the net about them, maybe they're too new.

Anyways, I'd like a multi purpose player, emphasis on music (CD & SACD oddly enough) but I'd like decent bluray and dvd playback. I'd like to keep to one decent new device, not separates.

Any advice anyone has will be gratefully accepted.

Cheers......Tex.

[Quark]

texass44, on Nov 22 2011, 04:06 PM, said:

I'm also looking to pick up a new BD player.

Initial thoughts were a CA 751bd....but I'm struggling with budget.  My list now includes
1. Sony BDP s580
2. Pioneer BDP-140 or BDP-440.

I can't seem to locate any PIO BDP-440's in Melbourne or much on the net about them, maybe they're too new.

Anyways, I'd like a multi purpose player, emphasis on music (CD & SACD oddly enough) but I'd like decent bluray and dvd playback. I'd like to keep to one decent new device, not separates.

Any advice anyone has will be gratefully accepted.

Cheers......Tex.

Are you intending to use HDMI or analog outputs?  If HDMI, then Oppo 93 from Amazon will be fine for music (and still not bad for analog).

[M&K Freak]

Just saw this for sale: Fs: Marantz Ud9004 BDP

Hmm, could even get rid of the 5000ES with that one. Pity, I'm dreaming, cash too short atm. Would be worth looking at if anyone is looking for a great BDP, with great multi-channel SACD audio and, by all reports, great 2ch audio as well.

[myrantz]

M&K Freak, on Dec 7 2011, 10:44 AM, said:

Hmm, could even get rid of the 5000ES with that one. Pity, I'm dreaming, cash too short atm. Would be worth looking at if anyone is looking for a great BDP, with great multi-channel SACD audio and, by all reports, great 2ch audio as well.

Is multi channel SACD really that good?  What SACDs?

Of my limited small "collection", all my multi channel SACDs have a stereo SACD layer..  And some SACDs are stereo only...

Are there 5.1 only SACDs out there?

[dJOS]

If your AVR can decode DSD over HDMI (eg Denon4311 etc) then i'd recommend the Oppo Universal BluRay players as they make an excellent transport (I dont like DSD converted to PCM over HDMI, sounds flat and lifeless to me).

http://oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-93/

[M&K Freak]

myrantz, I think all 5.1 SACDs have a 2ch layer as well. All (the few) SACDs I have purchased and played so far have played fine in 2ch.

I just enjoy live BD music, with the surround effects, I thought it might be nice to get the same feeling of immersion with 5.1 SACDs. I would certainly be tempted by that Marantz unit of Judge's. Anyone want to make me an aoffer for the 500ES that I can't refuse?  

[myrantz]

M&K Freak, on Dec 7 2011, 11:25 AM, said:

I just enjoy live BD music, with the surround effects, I thought it might be nice to get the same feeling of immersion with 5.1 SACDs.

2 channel can be equally if not more immersive with sounds seemingly coming from all directions... Depends on how the stereo track is mixed I guess.

M&K Freak, on Dec 7 2011, 11:25 AM, said:

I would certainly be tempted by that Marantz unit of Judge's. Anyone want to make me an aoffer for the 500ES that I can't refuse?  

Seems like a good price on the Marantz (although personally I don't want any CE with fans).. Buy it now before it disappears And sell the 5000ES later?

Don't think the Marantz will be available for long.. It's x'mas after all...

[cooksta]

myrantz, on Dec 7 2011, 01:27 PM, said:

Is multi channel SACD really that good?  What SACDs?

Of my limited small "collection", all my multi channel SACDs have a stereo SACD layer..  And some SACDs are stereo only...

Are there 5.1 only SACDs out there?

Yes there are, how many of them i dont know but Acoustic Sounds lists them for sale.

Multi channel sacd can be "that good" particularly pink floyd DSOTM and WYWH, absolutely made for 5.1, best I've ever heard those albums.
Guess it really depends on wether you like your music 5.1 or 2 channel I guess; the 5.1 can add an extra dimension to albums.

[myrantz]

cooksta, on Dec 7 2011, 05:38 PM, said:

Yes there are, how many of them i dont know but Acoustic Sounds lists them for sale.

That site is oz site? Doesn't really say much though, I meant SACD that's only has the 5.1 layer but no stereo SACD layer...

So far, there are stereo only SACD,  multichannel+stereo only SACD, and hybrids CD/SACDs....

Are there any multichannel only SACD? If yes which titles are there?

cooksta, on Dec 7 2011, 05:38 PM, said:

Multi channel sacd can be "that good" particularly pink floyd DSOTM and WYWH, absolutely made for 5.1, best I've ever heard those albums.
Guess it really depends on wether you like your music 5.1 or 2 channel I guess; the 5.1 can add an extra dimension to albums.

But my point in stereo as in the literal sense - 2 channel can be surround sound like. Take DSOTM, although still an active theory presently, the phase for the stereo layer seems to be wrong.

There are also some tracks that have reversed left with right (this is easier to detect)... e.g. from your website, this album Stan Getz,

Quote

With very few exceptions all versions of this title to date, including the original, have had the channels incorrectly reversed. With this version, you'll hear this title as it was intended to be heard, without the channels reveresed.

Now with only 2 channels, be it phase inverted, or L/R swap, they are somewhat easy to test and fix.. But imagine the possibilities/combinations of things that could go wrong when given 6 channels... It's too hard...

Not discouraging the OP to buy the BD player though, I reckon it's a great deal... But don't buy it for the sake to get 6 channel surround.

[cooksta]

myrantz, on Dec 7 2011, 10:47 PM, said:

That site is oz site?

Its a US site.

[Alan Rutlidge]

myrantz, on Dec 7 2011, 11:17 PM, said:

Now with only 2 channels, be it phase inverted, or L/R swap, they are somewhat easy to test and fix.. But imagine the possibilities/combinations of things that could go wrong when given 6 channels... It's too hard...

Not discouraging the OP to buy the BD player though, I reckon it's a great deal... But don't buy it for the sake to get 6 channel surround.

With modern HT receivers it's pretty difficult to get your speaker setup wrong.  Most of the good ones have an inbuilt test facility that you use the supplied microphone with.  Not only detects if you have a speaker or two out of phase, but also corrects for speaker distance / placement so the surround soundfield is correctly positioned as we as room EQ.  Couldn't be simpler IMHO.

Cheers,
Alan R.

Edited by Alan Rutlidge, 27 December 2011 - 02:34 PM.

[Alan Rutlidge]

myrantz, on Dec 7 2011, 11:17 PM, said:

There are also some tracks that have reversed left with right (this is easier to detect)... e.g. from your website, this album Stan Getz,

Do you know if this applies to the original SACD stereo only release?  i.e. The non hybrid version not released by Analogue Productions.

Cheers,
Alan R.

[myrantz]

Alan Rutlidge, on Dec 27 2011, 12:33 PM, said:

With modern HT receivers it's pretty difficult to get your speaker setup wrong.  Most of the good ones have an inbuilt test facility that you use the supplied microphone with.  Not only detects if you have a speaker or two out of phase, but also corrects for speaker distance / placement so the surround soundfield is correctly positioned as we as room EQ.  Couldn't be simpler IMHO.

I was referring to the mix itself. i.e. the recording itself is phase inverted... It's somewhat rare but can happen.. Don't really know the exact cause - maybe they mix US and Europe balanced gear?

YMMV as to whether this is an issue or not. For me not that much, but still, it can be really be a PITA sometimes...

Alan Rutlidge, on Dec 27 2011, 12:38 PM, said:

Do you know if this applies to the original SACD stereo only release?  i.e. The non hybrid version not released by Analogue Productions.

That I don't know.. Google info seems conflicting and I don't have the album myself (prob marketing BS?).. My friend told me the woman singing from the extreme right is the correct mix (he has the HDTracks download and a CD).

I've only played with the first track briefly, my first impression was, it should be done in mono ..

Where did u get this SACD from? It's in my to-buy list when I go overseas next year (still uncomfortable buying on the net, and don't want to buy off HDTracks   )...

[lushlife]

Alan Rutlidge, on Dec 27 2011, 03:38 PM, said:

Do you know if this applies to the original SACD stereo only release?  i.e. The non hybrid version not released by Analogue Productions.

Cheers,
Alan R.

I dunno, but the Steve Hoffman forum has quite a bit of info on this topnotch SACD.

Ahhh!

Edited by lushlife, 29 December 2011 - 10:05 PM.

[myrantz]

lushlife, on Dec 29 2011, 07:32 PM, said:

I dunno, but the Steve Hoffman forum has quite a bit of info on this topnotch SACD.

Ahhh!

Which SACD? The edition Alan have or the "new" edition from AP?

Interesting.... Steve Hoffman and co seems to say "hard left" (for all tracks) is the intended version... Youtube video has sexy lady to the right.  IIRC either way the sexy voice sticks out like a sore thumb.

Deep history, but very confusing... SACD equivalent of The Fifth Element ...

[lushlife]

http://www.positive-...tz_Gilberto.htm