173 replies to this topic

[hrh]

David Herbert, on 05 April 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

Has anyone managed to get a screen shot of a test pattern ?

Why would you want a picture of a set of colour bars? They are a fairly standard/common thing.
Individualised test patterns per se like they had back in the black and white or early colour days are a thing of the past. The only real differences in test cards between stations is the ident overlay - if they use one.

Edited by hrh, 06 April 2012 - 12:15 AM.

[nbound]

jblyth, on 05 April 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

Thanks Alan,

What a lousy web site that is!

If you don't enter a local address it says the switch over is mid-2013, which is not correct. Entering manually a local address confirms Digital transmission will start on the 17th MAY and Analogue transmissions will also STOP then! (and the place to enter the address is not clearly identified either)

It seems this information is extremely hard to come by. The Shire has only just found out, and the local newspaper has been give the run around for a couple of weeks.

Why hasn't this info been more obviously in the public domain for months, I ask.....

If it wasn't for this forum, we would all still be in the dark about this imminent changeover.

Cheers
John

Mid-2013 is correct, its just that your transmitter is in an early switchover area (generally areas serviced by small transmitters where it isnt viable to simulcast analog & digital). Places which are simulcasting digital and analog wont shut the analog off until mid-2013. The dates given for the start of digital transmissions in early switchover areas can be subject to change.

Edited by nbound, 09 April 2012 - 11:29 AM.

[alanh]

nbound,
Currently this is the only one in WA.
The reason is that all transmitters including ABC & SBS are in band 3, so there are no changes required for the digital restack.
Broome is also all band 3 except Goolarri TV which is on channel 31 which will have to move to band 3 or join SBS multiplex. It is not an early switchover site.

Virtually all commercial TV allocations are in the appropriate restack channel groups. The ABC/SBS are often on a different band and will need transmitter replacement so they will not be early switchover.

AlanH

Edited by alanh, 09 April 2012 - 02:27 PM.

[Will Plumridge]

alanh, on 09 April 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

Currently this is the only one in WA.

The only one of what?  Not the only early switchover - it looks like Newman will also switch over early.

http://www.comlaw.go...ils/F2012L00747

Regards,
Will

[redrooster]

What about Geraldton! It was advertised in the local newspaper(The Guardian) that the commercial digital tv stations in Geraldton would finally be switched on 17/2/2012 ? Well what happened this time or is it still a secret?

[alanh]

Will,
You are correct
Newman is in the same situation as Carnarvon:
ABW6
SBS11
WAW7 (GWN)
WOW10 (WIN)
WDW8 (TENWest)

Neither Carnarvon or Newman will not have to be revisited when the digital restack.

When commercial TV translators in Albany were installed, the ABC VHF transmitter was replaced with a UHF one and now the digital transmitters are all within group DV. Analog TV is still on.

AlanH

[alanh]

redrooster,
June, however others may be more accurate

Alanh

[Berocca]

Hi All,

Great source of information here - thanks for your informative posts.

Does anyone know when Port Hedland is due to go live?

[doodli]

Having a poblem with the DTV. Early morning, arround sunup the signal disappears completely on all stations. This is on two different antennas, both near new and RG6 cable, F connectors. Both lose signal at the same times. One is a hills TMX10 and the other is a Matchmaster Phased Array. It is not a signal breakup but a complete lose of signal. It is like the transmitters have been turned off. It is now after 9AM and the signal has returned on both antennas.
We are just over 70Km from the tower and no LOS of course.  Is this something that a bigger antenna or booster would help or are we just on the digital cliff edge and sometimes over it and are just unlucky. Myswitch site says that we are in a variable signal area, no kidding.

[nbound]

doodli, on 21 April 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Having a poblem with the DTV. Early morning, arround sunup the signal disappears completely on all stations. This is on two different antennas, both near new and RG6 cable, F connectors. Both lose signal at the same times. One is a hills TMX10 and the other is a Matchmaster Phased Array. It is not a signal breakup but a complete lose of signal. It is like the transmitters have been turned off. It is now after 9AM and the signal has returned on both antennas.
We are just over 70Km from the tower and no LOS of course.  Is this something that a bigger antenna or booster would help or are we just on the digital cliff edge and sometimes over it and are just unlucky. Myswitch site says that we are in a variable signal area, no kidding.

Does the signal breakup even momentarily before the signal is lost?

[RobertL]

doodli, on 21 April 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Having a poblem with the DTV. Early morning, arround sunup the signal disappears completely on all stations. This is on two different antennas, both near new and RG6 cable, F connectors. Both lose signal at the same times. One is a hills TMX10 and the other is a Matchmaster Phased Array. It is not a signal breakup but a complete lose of signal. It is like the transmitters have been turned off. It is now after 9AM and the signal has returned on both antennas.
We are just over 70Km from the tower and no LOS of course.  Is this something that a bigger antenna or booster would help or are we just on the digital cliff edge and sometimes over it and are just unlucky. Myswitch site says that we are in a variable signal area, no kidding.

What area are you in?

[RobertL]

Berocca, on 20 April 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Hi All,

Great source of information here - thanks for your informative posts.

Does anyone know when Port Hedland is due to go live?

Set to go on line 5th July 2012.

Robert

[doodli]

nbound, on 21 April 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

Does the signal breakup even momentarily before the signal is lost?

Yes, but the lost is rather quickly , it goes from quality of 80 to 99 to no signal within a few minutes. Does it also when we had a few really hot still days (talking over 40C) we lost signal for most of the day.

What area are you in?

We are covered by Mawsom (Central Agricultural) Tranmission site. We approximately 77Km east of the tower.  Be thinking we are on the edge of the useable signal and just drop over it under certain circumstances

We are surrounded by big gumtrees.

Edited by doodli, 21 April 2012 - 12:51 PM.

[nbound]

doodli, on 21 April 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

We are covered by Mawsom (Central Agricultural) Tranmission site. We approximately 77Km east of the tower.  Be thinking we are on the edge of the useable signal and just drop over it under certain circumstances

We are surrounded by big gumtrees.

Its possible, be worth getting a tech out there to look though, different aerial, masthead, and/or positioning could make the world of difference. Worst case is you could get VAST.

[alanh]

doolli,
Read http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=12494
Type your exact address into the linked digital ready website to find out if there will be a transmitter closer to you.

nbound,
The rules used in the eastern states also apply in the south western part of WA. No licences will be issued for VAST until the middle of next year.
Even then to get a licence an installer must get an inadequate field strength measurement (according to the ACMA) at 10 m above the ground.
If the owner is a full pensioner buying a VAST installation earlier than this date makes the owner inelegible for a subsidy.

AlanH

Edited by alanh, 21 April 2012 - 04:42 PM.

[nbound]

alanh, on 21 April 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

doolli,
Read http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=12494
Type your exact address into the linked digital ready website to find out if there will be a transmitter closer to you.

nbound,
The rules used in the eastern states also apply in the south western part of WA. No licences will be issued for VAST until the middle of next year.
Even then to get a licence an installer must get an inadequate field strength measurement (according to the ACMA) at 10 m above the ground.
If the owner is a full pensioner buying a VAST installation earlier than this date makes the owner inelegible for a subsidy.

AlanH

If inside Perth region at 10m AGL there is no signal, people can still apply for Aurora, and then upgrade that to VAST, unless the rules are different in WA. But that loophole has been around in the eastern states for some time.

But regardless, it was a worst case, chances are more than likely fixing his existing system will do the trick

Edited by nbound, 21 April 2012 - 07:06 PM.

[hrh]

doodli, on 21 April 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

We are covered by Mawsom (Central Agricultural) Tranmission site. We approximately 77Km east of the tower.  Be thinking we are on the edge of the useable signal and just drop over it under certain circumstances

So somewhere around west of Bruce Rock to Ardath to Corrigin.
Should be able to get adequate signal from Mawson.

alanh, on 21 April 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

Type your exact address into the linked digital ready website to find out if there will be a transmitter closer to you.

Analog maybe but not digital like he is talking about. Mawson is the only digital near there.

[alanh]

hrh,
If you examine the digital ready website, it shows you on a map which will zoom in if the digital signal should be adequate. It also tells you if new repeaters are planned or in operation, particularly if you click on the change transmitter link.

[alanh]

nbound,
The requirements for Aurora still have the same requirements as VAST if the viewer is outside the remote licence area.
http://www.acma.gov....ARD/pc=PC_90075
examine http://www.acma.gov....8-21mar2012.pdf Please note the date of this form. All references to Aurora have been removed.
So only existing Aurora viewers can upgrade. Outside the remote eastern and central  licence areas the viewers prefer their local stations for the news at the correct time and relevant advertising.
It will be a lot harder if you are in a good reception area according to the map in the www.digitalready.gov.au website. Any viewers in the remote licence areas can apply now without a B58. The coverage area maps are in the appropriate "Get the Best Reception posts in http://www.dtvforum....hp?showforum=82

Alanh

Edited by alanh, 21 April 2012 - 10:06 PM.

[nbound]

alanh, on 21 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

The requirements for Aurora still have the same requirements as VAST if the viewer is outside the remote licence area.
http://www.acma.gov....ARD/pc=PC_90075

Always have been, never said they werent. (Excluding the "No Transmitter/Reception" digitalready path)

alanh, on 21 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

examine http://www.acma.gov....8-21mar2012.pdf Please note the date of this form. All references to Aurora have been removed.

Well it would appear the loophole has now been recently closed then, for all viewers.

alanh, on 21 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Outside the remote eastern and central  licence areas the viewers prefer their local stations for the news at the correct time and relevant advertising.

They'd prefer that in RC&E too! Hence why VAST is the last option. But in WA; Western VAST and regional/remote WA broadcasters are the same, with the same feed (excluding advertising - correct me if im wrong, its a long way to travel ). So the difference is a minor one in WA.

Edited by nbound, 21 April 2012 - 11:13 PM.

[hrh]

hrh, on 21 April 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

So somewhere around west of Bruce Rock to Ardath to Corrigin.
Should be able to get adequate signal from Mawson.

Analog maybe but not digital like he is talking about. Mawson is the only digital near there.

Or around the Doodlakine area even. Marginal depending on the actual position.

alanh, on 21 April 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

hrh,
If you examine the digital ready website, it shows you on a map which will zoom in if the digital signal should be adequate. It also tells you if new repeaters are planned or in operation, particularly if you click on the change transmitter link.

I still standby my comment if he is in the Doodlakine area (given the nick) - Mawson appears to be the only terrestrial option.

[alanh]

hrh,
you are only guessing as to his location. What if he is west of Mawson?

Nbound,
If the viewer is in the licence area for the south west, then this is a regional area where all digital transmissions must be on air so that these signals can be tested first prior to moving the viewer to the remote area broadcasters.

Remember that commercial broadcasters pay for transmitters by using advertising for that area. Transfering a viewer to VAST reduces the income of the broadcaster for that local area providing the terrestrial transmitters. This also applies to paying for programming. The price of programs is determined by the number of viewers in a licence area.

AlanH

AlanH

[Smacca]

The troll is back! Oh the memories..

Wonder what sparked the return? Probably read a paper or official document and thought "ah-hah! this will set them straight!

alanh, on 22 April 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

hrh,
you are only guessing as to his location. What if he is west of Mawson?

Did you even read his post? He is 77km east of Mawson.

alanh, on 22 April 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Remember that commercial broadcasters pay for transmitters by using advertising for that area.

Another lesson in how the broadcast industry works. Thanks Alan, we had no idea advertising pays for things. You're so wise!

alanh, on 22 April 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Transfering a viewer to VAST reduces the income of the broadcaster for that local area providing the terrestrial transmitters.

But it's the SAME advertising. The same GWN7, WIN and TEN end up on the viewer's television whether they've got a digital terrestrial antenna or a satellite dish. Your argument applies to Remote and Central Australia, not Western Australia. There is no competing terrestrial and satellite licenses to deal with. This is exactly why they allowed the use of an Aurora card anywhere in WA outside Perth, including the middle of large regional cities.

There, I took the bait.

Edited by Smacca, 22 April 2012 - 01:48 PM.

[nbound]

Smacca, on 22 April 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

But it's the SAME advertising.

Thanks Smacca, I didnt quite want to go that far as i didnt know for sure.

Oh btw, would you mind having another look at the VAST wikipedia page and correcting anything you beleive is incorrect (esp. Western VAST related)

[alanh]

I have not disputed that Mawson is the transmitter for this area and that Merredin is too far away at the power being used. However the signal stength in Doodlakine are dodgie, however it is a little further than than the 77 km. However small variations in that area have a big difference.

I notice that the quality reduces then does the signal strength. On the channels used, dense foliage can produce diffraction if its between the antenna and the transmitter.

The best option is to move the antenna so it's not blocked by the trees. Use a 4 bay or better 8 bay phased array and a band 5 masthead amplfier. All cabling, Quad shielded RG6

SMACCA,
I admit when I am wrong, see the top of this page. Now that VAST is truely running I am still waiting for an apology.......

nbound,
What has not been stated is that most of the GWN7/WIN network is still analog. Also that there has only ever been in analog GWN7 carrying seven programs and WIN carrying a mix of Nine and TEN network programs.

So the separation two commercial program feeds into 3 separate program feeds will not occur until around August this year.
So in the mean time some areas get the same programs on two digital/VAST multiplexes simultaneously.

After the digital conversion occurs we will see what happens to the programming particularly on GWN7 for the South West/Great Southern, Midlands inc Geraldton, Eastern Goldfields and the remote licence areas. A separate program feed is used for Albany compared to the rest of the South West licence area. This is commonly done in Queensland.

AlanH