70 replies to this topic

[diesel]

I have pretty much ruled out the D550 64". Considering the room where it is going has the adjacent wall nearest to the screen being pretty much floor to ceiling glass, a good AR and Screen filter is a requirement. I was surely tempted over the weekend to get the D550 for $2k with 4 3D glasses, but thought I would have buyer's remorse.

So today I came across a boxed 65" VT20 for $3.4k. Upon enquiring, I can get it below $3k. So now I have questioned whether I get an ST30 or go with the VT20. Items of concern for the VT20 if someone can answer please...

VT20:
Rising blacks - I think I can live with this
Screen filter - don't know if the VT20 has one???
3D glasses - I thought it came with two pairs? Can anyone confirm please.
Does the VT20 have 4 speakers - 2 x tweeters and 2 x woofers?
Are the newer Panasonic 3D glasses compatible with the VT20?


Given the choice - ST30 or VT20 - what would people choose?

More procrastination I know, but given the spend, I want to make sure I have all the +/- covered before making a decision.

[diesel]

Thoughts on the above guys.....


A penny for your thoughts  

[SLE355]

My only concern would be the floating black's. If it has it/it annoy's you, there will never be a fix for it. http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=95712

Apart from that, everytime i saw one of these showing bluray it was stunning.

[Owen]

The ST may be a better thing than the VT20, some people seem to think so. In the end its your call.

Any reason you are not considering the 64D8000 Sammy at that price point? It seems to have the most effective AR coating and screen filter, which you say is important in your situation.

[andys]

The VT20 for sure, particularly at that price. As mentioned you need to decide though if the floating blacks are going to bother you. I do see fb's on my VT20, though only during changes in very dark scenes. 99% of the time you just wouldn't notice. The screen filter on the VT20 is very good. It's a no contest when compared to the D550. All Panasonic 3D glasses are compatible with all models. (Mine only came with one set). I don't think the ST does 3D at 60p, which is a must if flicker bothers you. Rising blacks are just a fact of life these days, regardless of what plasma you buy.

Cheers.

[andys]

Owen, on Oct 9 2011, 10:03 AM, said:

Any reason you are not considering the 64D8000 Sammy at that price point? It seems to have the most effective AR coating and screen filter, which you say is important in your situation.

Actually Owen makes a very good point. I have both a VT20 & a D8000 & if I could only keep one it would be the D8000. The D8000 handles 50hz content better & doesn't suffer from motion blur on fast panning shots like the Panny. The screen filter on the D8000 is the best on the current market. Some food for thought.

Andys.

[diesel]

I just have a hard time buying Samsung TVs. I appreciate the D8000 is a very very capable TV, possibly better than a VT30, but there's just something telling me to stick with Panasonic.

Good to know the VT20 has a screen filter.

[Beleg Cúthalion]

why are people so concerned about buying from Samsung? Are they currently not the highest selling TV manufacturer in the world?

is there some actual warranty/return/failure statistics that consumers have access too?

i don't personally trust ANY companies to put more quality into a product than they feel is absolutely necessary (for their own bottom line).

Edited by Dwain, 10 October 2011 - 06:59 AM.

[diesel]

Nothing concrete against Samsung, just feel more comfortable buying Panasonic. That's all.

Hard to ignore the better value for money and excellent PQ Samsung have in their products.

I haven't ruled out Samsung D8000 completely, just exhausting all my Panasonic options first.  

Edited by diesel, 10 October 2011 - 08:08 AM.

[nickows]

Been following this thread with interest as Im also looking at the Samsung D550 64" and Pana ST30 60". Being able to control most of the ambient light in my room, is it correct to assume AR and screen filter are less important for me? In a dark room would the D550 perform similar to the ST30 Panasonic, especially in regards to black levels and contrast?

At $2000 the 64" D550 is a very tempting proposition. Doing research I can get the Pana ST30 60" for about $300 more.

BTW, what are floating blacks/rising blacks?

Edited by nickows, 16 October 2011 - 04:53 PM.

[miagi]

Hmmm, I am in a similar position.
I have decided to give the Panasonic 55GT30A (had thought this was the one I wanted) a miss as I want that little bit extra in size.
I find myself now having narrowed my choices down to either the Panasonic 60ST30 (the bezel is growing on me) or the Samsung 59D8000.
I will be purchasing extended warranty with either as I dont have a lot of faith in the TV's today after reading all the horror stories.
Buzzing also has me concerned.

Edited by miagi, 16 October 2011 - 06:43 PM.

[Owen]

nickows, on Oct 16 2011, 05:50 PM, said:

Being able to control most of the ambient light in my room, is it correct to assume AR and screen filter are less important for me?

Yes

nickows, on Oct 16 2011, 05:50 PM, said:

In a dark room would the D550 perform similar to the ST30 Panasonic, especially in regards to black levels and contrast?

Black level on the ST30 will be lower but unless you had two TV side by side you would be hard pressed to tell.

nickows, on Oct 16 2011, 05:50 PM, said:

BTW, what are floating blacks/rising blacks?

Floating blacks are where the black level changes or fluctuates depending on the scene, it will mainly be noticeable in the black bars in wide screen movies. It seems to a misguided attempt to save power in current model Plasmas. Plasmas have always had floating white level but surprisingly that does not get talked about much
Most LCD's have floating picture levels due to the dynamic lighting they use to fudge better blacks, that also gets little press.

Rising blacks is where the black level of the panel rises over time, typically many hundreds of hours.

[diesel]

nickows, on Oct 16 2011, 05:50 PM, said:

At $2000 the 64" D550 is a very tempting proposition. Doing research I can get the Pana ST30 60" for about $300 more.

Was showing Mrs diesel the TVs on my short list this morning in JB, and without prompting, the sales guys walks up and said he could sell either the 60" ST30 or the 64" D550 for $2000. I was showing her what the ST looked like and the 60" was the largest in store. He must have thought we were tossing up between the two, and tried to close a sale.
Unfortunately, they seem unable to do such tempting deals on the 65" ST30. Pana could hopefully be dropping the RRP on the bigger screens soon (he says with fingers crossed    ). $1500 difference in RRP between a 60" ST30 and a 65" ST30 seems ridiculous!

[nickows]

Owen, on Oct 16 2011, 08:54 PM, said:

Yes




Black level on the ST30 will be lower but unless you had two TV side by side you would be hard pressed to tell.




Floating blacks are where the black level changes or fluctuates depending on the scene, it will mainly be noticeable in the black bars in wide screen movies. It seems to a misguided attempt to save power in current model Plasmas. Plasmas have always had floating white level but surprisingly that does not get talked about much
Most LCD's have floating picture levels due to the dynamic lighting they use to fudge better blacks, that also gets little press.

Rising blacks is where the black level of the panel rises over time, typically many hundreds of hours.

Thanks for the info

[pc9]

Owen, on Oct 16 2011, 08:24 PM, said:

Yes




Black level on the ST30 will be lower but unless you had two TV side by side you would be hard pressed to tell.




Floating blacks are where the black level changes or fluctuates depending on the scene, it will mainly be noticeable in the black bars in wide screen movies. It seems to a misguided attempt to save power in current model Plasmas. Plasmas have always had floating white level but surprisingly that does not get talked about much
Most LCD's have floating picture levels due to the dynamic lighting they use to fudge better blacks, that also gets little press.

Rising blacks is where the black level of the panel rises over time, typically many hundreds of hours.

What about the black levels on the GT and VT compared to the Series 8 51" Samsung.  I thought it was generally conceded that the Pana blacks were the deepest across all models but the Samsung pipped the Panas with video processing etc.

Still haven't taken the plunge as I can't readily get hold of a series 8 51" up here in the deep north but hardleys have loads of STs, GTs and VTs.

[diesel]

pc9, on Oct 18 2011, 09:33 AM, said:

What about the black levels on the GT and VT compared to the Series 8 51" Samsung.  I thought it was generally conceded that the Pana blacks were the deepest across all models but the Samsung pipped the Panas with video processing etc.

Black levels between all of them are very similar, I think the VT just pips the GT and Samsung D8000, but many say the PQ is better with Samsung.

[pc9]

diesel, on Oct 18 2011, 12:36 PM, said:

Black levels between all of them are very similar, I think the VT just pips the GT and Samsung D8000, but many say the PQ is better with Samsung.

Ok thanks.  That seems to be a fairly consistent message.

[diesel]

diesel, on Oct 7 2011, 06:41 PM, said:

So now I have questioned whether I get an ST30 or go with the VT20.

Well I went with the VT20 65".
Delivery is tomorrow, but I won't be able to setup before the weekend as I still have some painting to do.

[drazic2012]

Owen, on Oct 16 2011, 08:24 PM, said:

Black level on the ST30 will be lower but unless you had two TV side by side you would be hard pressed to tell.

Really? I recently purchased a 51" D550 and the blacks are basically glowing with the lights off. I'm not overly impressed, and am currently trying to decide if it's worth swapping the unit and paying the extra for the ST30.

The picture quality is fantastic - it just that the black levels remind me of an old CRT display with the brightness turned up too high.

Having said that - 60Hz content seems to have better blacks than both 50Hz content and 24Hz content, regardless of the Cinema Smooth setting.

Surely the ST30 is better than this?

[diesel]

drazic2012, on Oct 29 2011, 09:09 PM, said:

I recently purchased a 51" D550 and the blacks are basically glowing with the lights off. I'm not overly impressed, and am currently trying to decide if it's worth swapping the unit and paying the extra for the ST30.

I'd say get the ST30 - much better blacks IMO

[Owen]

drazic2012, on Oct 29 2011, 09:09 PM, said:

Really? I recently purchased a 51" D550 and the blacks are basically glowing with the lights off. I'm not overly impressed, and am currently trying to decide if it's worth swapping the unit and paying the extra for the ST30.

If you expect any Plasma to have anything but grey blacks in a dark room you are in for disappoint, not even the G9 Pioneer Kuro could do black in a dark room. So it all comes down to what shade of grey you find acceptable and without having the TV's side by side the difference has to be very large for one TV to be reliably distinguished from another as far as black level goes.

A good CRT can have absolute blacks, but shadow detail suffered when you set the brightness control for true blacks.

The only solution to the grey black problem is carefully placed bias lighting and when light is present in the viewing environment screen filter performance becomes important.

I'm not sure why you would be comparing a D550 with an ST30, they are very different in price.

Edited by Owen, 30 October 2011 - 08:46 AM.

[pc9]

Owen, on Oct 30 2011, 09:06 AM, said:

If you expect any Plasma to have anything but grey blacks in a dark room you are in for disappoint, not even the G9 Pioneer Kuro could do black in a dark room. So it all comes down to what shade of grey you find acceptable and without having the TV's side by side the difference has to be very large for one TV to be reliably distinguished from another as far as black level goes.

A good CRT can have absolute blacks, but shadow detail suffered when you set the brightness control for true blacks.

The only solution to the grey black problem is carefully placed bias lighting and when light is present in the viewing environment screen filter performance becomes important.

I'm not sure why you would be comparing a D550 with an ST30, they are very different in price.

Thanks to everybody for their input on this forum - its been very helpful to me as I am about to take the plunge (as soon as the missus sets off overseas next week).  I had just about settled on the Series 8 Samsung 51", however prices for the D550 51" where I live have no dropped to around the $800 mark. Light is no problem to me as I am a night time TV watcher (in any event I can control the light in the room).  $800 for a D550 seems almost too good to refuse.

My main requirement is half decent video processing on our shitty standard def services - this is what has swayed me away from the Panasonics - even in the store environment they seem to be a bit edgy on SD (but with good blacks and contrast and better HD PIC). On the Panasonic front, I thought the ST 60" was a really good bang for buck unit - side by side against the GT, could'nt really detect much difference in the black level.

[drazic2012]

Owen, on Oct 30 2011, 09:06 AM, said:

If you expect any Plasma to have anything but grey blacks in a dark room you are in for disappoint, not even the G9 Pioneer Kuro could do black in a dark room. So it all comes down to what shade of grey you find acceptable and without having the TV's side by side the difference has to be very large for one TV to be reliably distinguished from another as far as black level goes.

Thanks Owen - this is basically what I'm trying to decide. My parents own an older Panasonic plasma (TH-50PX660a I think) and I've never thought their blacks look washed out like the do on the D550. It's just hard to determine if I'm being too critical on the Samsung or if there is actually a noticeable difference.

Owen, on Oct 30 2011, 09:06 AM, said:

I'm not sure why you would be comparing a D550 with an ST30, they are very different in price.

I'm not sure why it matters - but at the moment saving a few extra dollars is a good thing, and I was able to pick up the D550 for $799 and extend the warranty to 5 years for $84. Since that purchase a week ago, I've had a couple of issues and Samsung have suggested to JB that I should definitely swap the set over. I can now get the ST30 for $1225 with the ability to extend the warranty to 5 years for $117 and I have been given the opportunity to pay the difference and take the ST30 home if I wish.

Yeah - there is still a significant price difference, which is the exact reason I'm trying to determine if the ST30 will provide me with an additional $459 of happiness or not. It's hard to tell without having viewed the ST30 at home like I have with the D550.

[drazic2012]

pc9, on Oct 30 2011, 09:35 AM, said:

$800 for a D550 seems almost too good to refuse.

I thought the same thing and bought one, but I am not completely sure if I'm happy with the blacks. Having said that, take my comments with a grain of salt as I may be too picky - but I do believe Diesel was of a similar opinion after comparing it to the ST30.

[pc9]

drazic2012, on Oct 30 2011, 10:46 AM, said:

I thought the same thing and bought one, but I am not completely sure if I'm happy with the blacks. Having said that, take my comments with a grain of salt as I may be too picky - but I do believe Diesel was of a similar opinion after comparing it to the ST30.

thanks - my current set is an LED so if I can get some improvement from the LED in the black area I will be happy.  The trouble with the LED is that when the show goes to a dark scene in a good quality HD movie, its like the TV switches to a SD mode.