33 replies to this topic

[Fermenter]

I'm very close to pulling the trigger on one, but being new to the HT world I keep coming up with questions I can't find the answers to.

Will this device be able to record (ie digitise) my old analog media, like VHS tapes? I imagine I'd need to either feed a composite video input from my VCR or run composite into an upscaling amp and HDMI to the 800 - assuming it has inputs at all?

What about audio? Can it take an analog stereo input (eg from cassette/vinyl) and 'record' it to a useful audio format? Can it rip CDs internally?

I can't find a manual or even decent rear panel shots on the net to figure out what inputs it has.

Oh and while we're at it, where the hell does the disc go??!! Damn thing has no tray I can see.


Thanks for your help.

Edited by Fermenter, 25 August 2011 - 09:02 AM.

[diesel]

Fermenter, on Aug 25 2011, 07:25 AM, said:

Will this device be able to record (ie digitise) my old analog media, like VHS tapes? I imagine I'd need to either feed a composite video input from my VCR or run composite into an upscaling amp and HDMI to the 800 - assuming it has inputs at all?

Yes. It has an AV-in on the RHS rear panel. It has both composite and Svideo inputs. Svideo would be my suggestion to get as good as PQ as possible. Remember though, analogue footage looks pretty ordinary to begin with, so digitising it isn't going to make a silk purse from a sow's ear so to speak.
Your 2nd suggestion above will not work, as HDMI is purely an output only on recording devices to combat against digital piracy.

Quote

What about audio? Can it take an analog stereo input (eg from cassette/vinyl) and 'record' it to a useful audio format? Can it rip CDs internally?

It can't take analogue audio and create an MP3, but I suppose you could record an analogue audio signal as an mpeg video file and try and use one of many freeware apps to extract the audio. In all honesty, that's far more trouble than it's worth. If you really must do it, look for a separate dedicated device for ripping audio cassettes to digital.
It does support ripping CDs to the HDD and using Gracenotes database to deliver track names etc. I believe that once you have a ripped MP3 collection on the HDD, that you cannot export it to CD or SD card - again maybe due to piracy concerns?

Quote

I can't find a manual or even decent rear panel shots on the net to figure out what inputs it has.

I downloaded a copy of the BWT700/800 manual from this sitea while ago, but it doesn't appear to be there anymore. In terms of connections:
REAR
HDMI (x2) - BWT700 only has 1xHDMI
Ethernet
Skype Camera
Optical
Coax
Composite (in/out)
Svideo (in/out)
RF (in/out)

FRONT
USB
SDXC Card slot

Quote

Oh and while we're at it, where the hell does the disc go??!! Damn thing has no tray I can see.

The disc tray is hidden behind the front flap. The whole front panel flips down to reveal the buttons, disc tray and inputs on the front panel. One annoying thing that Panasonic still haven't rectified is that whilst the disc tray is on the LHS, the button to open it is on the right hand side. The power button is on the left hand side directly above the disc tray, so this is the natural button to press when you go to open the tray   And the remote does not have a disc open button!

[Fermenter]

Great answer, thanks Mick! I reckon I'll get one on the weekend when I get the new TV.

I know I can't 'improve' the quality of the old analog stuff, but at least I'll be able to stabilise/archive/use it. It's part of the master plan of getting rid of the old clutter. I have decent VHS and audio cassette decks, even if I just convert all my tape to mpeg that will do for now. As you say I can further convert the audio later on if I want. I can't imagine I'll lose much 'fidelity' in going from audio cassette to mpeg...

[diesel]

Are they home recordings or commercial cassettes/vhs?

[Fermenter]

Mostly home recorded stuff. On VHS there are a couple of home movies, and docos/concerts etc recorded from TV.

On audio tape I have things like old jam sessions with friends, pub recordings, and some mix tapes I can't easily identify. I will try to find higher quality versions of the commercially-available stuff, but some of it is basically irreplaceable and currently languishing in the bottom of a milk crate.

I have been intending to get an audio interface for my computer and do it that way, but for whatever reason it just hasn't happened. Computer isn't much chop anyway and I don't really want to upgrade (sick of the things). So if this device can motivate me to get the job done, it'll be a good result.

I'm assuming that it also has some basic editing functions, like trimming junk off the start and end of recordings?

[diesel]

Yeah, the Panasonics have very accurate editing, but IMO a PC is the best thing for that kind of stuff. Certainly audio files aren't too taxing on PCs, but video can be.

WRT your original queries around HDMI, you may want to consider last years model recorder DMR-BW880. Maybe this won't have the HD over component restrictions???

[Fermenter]

Quite honestly I don't think the input format will matter all that much, composite (or S) will get the job done just fine given the low quality of the source material. The main thing is just to get it in there.

I expect you are right about the audio - my current PC is probably perfectly capable of decent audio editing if I would just sit down and try it!

I'm curious about your suggestion that I may not be able to export a ripped CD. How would it control that? I would have thought that once the data was there I would be able to access it and move it around the same as any other data. Does it do something differently with CD rips? I have a few hundred of my own, almost half of which have nasty errors (done years ago in the early days of ripping) so I was hoping to be able to systematically redo them with more success, but if I can't do anything else with them it won't be worth the bother.

[diesel]

Fermenter, on Aug 25 2011, 09:56 PM, said:

I'm curious about your suggestion that I may not be able to export a ripped CD. How would it control that? I would have thought that once the data was there I would be able to access it and move it around the same as any other data.

I don't have a Panasonic unit, but going by user comments and what I can gleam from the manual, if the unit doesn't give you the option to copy ripped music to removable disc/SD card, then you can't move it.

[Fermenter]

Damn I hope that's not the case. Apparently this unit can act as a DLNA server so I would expect it to be able to serve any files to any device that asked for them. If it locks ripped discs away in onboard storage where they can't be accessed (or backed up) by anything else you'd have to question the value of ripping them in the first place.

Well, I guess I'll find out soon enough - I'll be picking it up tomorrow, unless I get hit by another wave of 'holy crap what am I doing'...  

[diesel]

Have a read of this thread regarding the functionality (or lack thereof) of the DNLA feature.

[Fermenter]

Well thanks to your info and a bit more research I've decided that this unit is not the right solution for me. I think I should set up a decent PC to be NAS, PVR, ripper, burner etc, that will allow me full access and control over my media.

The amp can access NAS audio and the TV can access NAS video (and do basic PVR for the time being). I will get a regular bluray player for the hifi cabinet.

Thanks again Diesel  

Edited by Fermenter, 30 August 2011 - 09:25 AM.

[diesel]

Not trying to scare you away, but rather make sure you have enough info to make an informed decision. A HTPC is a powerful and decidedly all-in-one device if you want it to be. However, they can be difficult to setup initially and for the masses, no-one has been able to make one consumer-friendly enough to be foolproof for the technophobe.

If you know what you are doing, and get the right match of components, you should get to what you are after.

Good Luck.

[sns]

I went to a function Panasonic had for this model last night. I have the DMR-BW880 and like the improvements they have made over the BW880. The bigger 1TB HDD, DLNA client, 2D to 3D conversion, 3D, inbuilt WiFi, Skype video mail.

[diesel]

Yeah, I saw a few posts on Whirlpool about the event. It just seems odd to me that they had an event for a device which has been on the market for quite some time. Maybe they are just not selling???

They are still fairly pricey and blank discs aren't exactly cheap. Maybe Bluray discs will mostly be used for commercial purposes and retail customers will continue to use DVD or external HDD/flash storage as a means to archive/transfer media?

[Fermenter]

I wonder if they are simply being hamstrung by DRM laws/agreements?

I had the cash almost burning a hole in my pocket, and I wanted a brand-name all-in-one solution that didn't rely on a PC - and I still couldn't quite bring myself to pull the trigger on one.

If it would let me store and move my own media around freely I'd be very interested, but I can do without a $1000 media traffic cop.

[diesel]

Yep, totally agree.

If I could have a PVR like my beyonwiz but that could play Bluray discs/FHD media then I would be one very happy monkey. I have been extremely happy with my beyonwiz units except for the lack of Full HD support
Supposedly they are working on a new model, so at this stage that is what I am waiting for.

[sns]

diesel, on Sep 28 2011, 09:23 AM, said:

Yeah, I saw a few posts on Whirlpool about the event. It just seems odd to me that they had an event for a device which has been on the market for quite some time. Maybe they are just not selling???

They are still fairly pricey and blank discs aren't exactly cheap. Maybe Bluray discs will mostly be used for commercial purposes and retail customers will continue to use DVD or external HDD/flash storage as a means to archive/transfer media?

I hope they do meet their sales targets, I think the Blu-ray recorder platform is where it is heading.

The blank blu-ray discs price is not unexpected. I also have a blu-ray burner in my PC  that has a couple of 2TB HDD's. I purchased some re-writeable blu-rays (BD-RE), so burn the content on my BW880 to BD-RE, then take an image of the BD-RE and save it on my PC. I can then reuse the BD-RE's. Later to access the content I then burn from PC to BD-RE and put it back in the BW880 to view it. When BD-R's come down in price, I can burn the images to BD-R.

[diesel]

sns, on Sep 28 2011, 01:32 PM, said:

I think the Blu-ray recorder platform is where it is heading.

I would have to disagree

With external HDDs/NAS storage so cheap these days, and the internet and NBN allowing fast downloads and streaming of HD content, physical discs are not the future - not the one that I see at least. I never had a DVD recorder. Went from VCR to PVR and never looked back. Sure you still need a disc spinner for the odd occasion that you want to watch a BD/DVD or listen to a CD that's not been ripped, but burning your own discs is pretty much in the past.

Just my 2c

[sns]

diesel, on Sep 28 2011, 10:25 PM, said:

I would have to disagree

With external HDDs/NAS storage so cheap these days, and the internet and NBN allowing fast downloads and streaming of HD content, physical discs are not the future - not the one that I see at least. I never had a DVD recorder. Went from VCR to PVR and never looked back. Sure you still need a disc spinner for the odd occasion that you want to watch a BD/DVD or listen to a CD that's not been ripped, but burning your own discs is pretty much in the past.

Just my 2c

NBN is years away of being adopted by the mainstream, its build does not finish for another 6 years, assuming it is on track, on budget, does not get scaled back like the Telstra and Optus HFC networks were.

Just look at the adoption rate and life span of some existing technology, VHS VCR format was introduced in 1976, you can still buy devices that accept VHS tapes today. DVD's were introduced in 1995, blu-ray 2006. With the price of blu-ray pre-recorded discs and player coming down in price, people will adopt that format. So the adoption of media streaming by the mainstream population is still a while away. Sure tech minded people have already adopted media streaming, but that is not mainstream.

[diesel]

I would agree that the mainstream folk may not have adopted streaming stuff around their house just yet, but most of the people I know put stuff onto USB drives and use 'sneakernet' to watch on their TVs.

[duster]

diesel, on Sep 28 2011, 10:25 PM, said:

I would have to disagree

With external HDDs/NAS storage so cheap these days, and the internet and NBN allowing fast downloads and streaming of HD content, physical discs are not the future - not the one that I see at least. I never had a DVD recorder. Went from VCR to PVR and never looked back. Sure you still need a disc spinner for the odd occasion that you want to watch a BD/DVD or listen to a CD that's not been ripped, but burning your own discs is pretty much in the past.

Just my 2c

Back-up!... without multiple 'backup' would a BD be the safest long term storage for precious memories at present?

[Spade Newsom]

Fermenter, on Sep 28 2011, 01:14 PM, said:

If it would let me store and move my own media around freely I'd be very interested, but I can do without a $1000 media traffic cop.

I was/am in an identical situation to you. I even ordered one but they got the wrong model Panasonic and by then I had found out what the limitations of the product actually are. Not being able to back up recorded media apart from onto blank DVDs defeats the purpose of having a home network and makes this product a passenger on the network rather than a contributor to it.

Are these hardware restrictions part of their HDMI or DLNA licencing maybe. HTPC will start becoming very popular  in the next several years.

[Fermenter]

I don't think we are likely to see what we want from a mainstream hardware mfr. They are all too closely tied to the content producers these days. To get any new device off the ground it must first be so totally crippled, lest the unwashed consumer use it for evil, that it will never offer the complete package. Clearly this has occurred here, I refuse to believe the engineers simply 'forgot' or were technically unable to include full file transfer.

Independent (and PC) mfrs are freer to innovate, although I'm sure the patent lawyers do their best to stifle it.

[sns]

Fermenter, on Sep 29 2011, 05:31 PM, said:

I don't think we are likely to see what we want from a mainstream hardware mfr. They are all too closely tied to the content producers these days. To get any new device off the ground it must first be so totally crippled, lest the unwashed consumer use it for evil, that it will never offer the complete package. Clearly this has occurred here, I refuse to believe the engineers simply 'forgot' or were technically unable to include full file transfer.

Independent (and PC) mfrs are freer to innovate, although I'm sure the patent lawyers do their best to stifle it.

A question was asked at a recent Panasonic event about FTP access, etc for these devices. The response why it is not provided (with the exception of DLNA streaming) was due to copyright reasons.

[Davey Boy]

Hi there

Prior to finding this thread i have been leaning towards the 880Gl and thought it may be the way to go  but now i am asking if there is a alternative to it available ?.