56 replies to this topic

[pheggie]

http://stereoscopyne...under-1500.html

[MarkTecher]

WOW.  I wonder how it compares to other 3D projectors as far as cross talk etc goes?

[jeffpr]

MarkTecher, on Aug 21 2011, 11:22 PM, said:

WOW.  I wonder how it compares to other 3D projectors as far as cross talk etc goes?

its dlp so its crosstalk should be non existant.  was this the one that only did 3d at 720p?

[dazbug]

jeffpr, on Aug 23 2011, 04:51 PM, said:

its dlp so its crosstalk should be non existant.  was this the one that only did 3d at 720p?

Resolution Native 1080p (1920x1080) 2D/3D


http://www.optomausa...cts/detail/HD33

[MarkTecher]

jeffpr, on Aug 23 2011, 04:51 PM, said:

its dlp so its crosstalk should be non existant.  was this the one that only did 3d at 720p?

D-Cinema projectors are all 3 chip DLP and they still have cross talk.

[hirdylloydy]

MarkTecher, on Aug 23 2011, 06:17 PM, said:

D-Cinema projectors are all 3 chip DLP and they still have cross talk.

just got told from projectorisle that these would be landing on sep 12th, recc retail $2800, their price $2300

[MarkTecher]

hirdylloydy, on Aug 24 2011, 02:02 PM, said:

just got told from projectorisle that these would be landing on sep 12th, recc retail $2800, their price $2300

Still an awesome price for a 3D projector.  Does that price include any glasses?

Edited by MarkTecher, 24 August 2011 - 02:18 PM.

[hirdylloydy]

MarkTecher, on Aug 24 2011, 02:17 PM, said:

Still an awesome price for a 3D projector.  Does that price include any glasses?

includes the rf receiver but no glasses, will work with rf, ir and dlp link glasses

[hirdylloydy]

Street Price (USD) : $1,499  
MSRP (USD) : $2,999  
Brightness (Lumens) : 1800 ANSI
Contrast (Full On/Off) : 4000:1
Variable Iris:      **
Audible Noise: 30.0 dB
Eco-Mode: 28.0 dB
Weight: 3.5 kg
Size (cm) (HxWxD) : 11 x 36 x 31  
Std. Lens: Focus:
Manual
Zoom: Manual, 1.20:1
Throw Dist (m) :  1.5 - 10.0  
Image Size (cm) : 96 - 765  
Optional Lenses: No  
Digital Zoom:      **
Digital Keystone: Vertical
Lens Shift: No
Warranty: 1 Year
Performance:  
H-Sync Range: 15.3 - 91.1kHz
V-Sync Range: 25 - 85Hz
3D Projector: 3D Ready
3D Glasses Type: Shutter
Compatibility:
HDTV: 720p, 1080i, 1080p/60  
EDTV/480p: Yes
SDTV/480i: Yes
Component Video: Yes
Video: Yes
Digital Input: HDMI 1.4a  
Computers: Yes
Display: Type:
2 cm DLP (1)
Color Wheel Segs:      6
Color Wheel Speed:      **
Native: 1920x1080 Pixels
Maximum: 1920x1080 Pixels
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 (HD)
Light Source: Type:
230W Osram
Life: 3000 hours
Eco-Mode Life: 4000 hours
Quantity: 1
Speakers: No  
Max Power: 330W
Voltage: 100V - 240V
FCC Class:      **
Special: 3D Projection
RS232 Port

Status: Shipping
First Ship: Aug 2011

[MarkTecher]

hirdylloydy, on Aug 24 2011, 02:24 PM, said:

Street Price (USD) : $1,499  
MSRP (USD) : $2,999

Who sets the "street price" anyway?  That is half the retail or list.

[bumassager]

Another question Mark is why is this unit going to sell for $1499 in the US and we are going to be paying $2300? When the dollar is so high, this doesn't make any sense to me...

[MLXXX]

hirdylloydy, on Aug 24 2011, 02:24 PM, said:

Street Price (USD) : $1,499  
...

First Ship: Aug 2011

The user manual for the Optoma HD33 is silent on setting different shutter glasses alternation rates for 3D for this DLP projector. Presumably 24fps video is projected at 120Hz (60Hz per eye). That seems to be the norm for first generation home 3D projectors.

I note that 120Hz falls short of the 144Hz (72Hz per eye) of RealD commercial cinema projectors.  Not only is the RealD rate faster, but it is a multiple of 24fps, permitting original Left and Right images of a 24fps source to be projected without pull down or other manipulation.

This budget Optoma 3D projector will be competing against Panasonic's rather more expensive 3D projector offerings, the PT-AT5000 [Europe] and  PT-AE7000 [USA] models, which operate at 480Hz. The PT-AT5000 ships to Europe in September 2011, for a sub-£3k RRP. [These first Pansonic 3D projector models use LCD technology.  Whether Panasonic have really succeeded in keeping cross-talk low, while maintaining good brightness and at a higher than usual shutter glasses alternation rate, remains to be carefully scrutinised by professional reviewers prepared to conduct careful testing. I for one will will be very interested in the results of such testing. I find 120 Hz too low for my eyesight as a 3D alternation rate.]

[MarkTecher]

bumassager, on Aug 24 2011, 06:10 PM, said:

Another question Mark is why is this unit going to sell for $1499 in the US and we are going to be paying $2300? When the dollar is so high, this doesn't make any sense to me...

Nor me.  So the next question: Will it sell for that price?

[SDL]

Without fully defending price differences it does need to be considered that the cost structure is completely different. First the units sold does have an impact because if you only sell a few you still need to have the support structure in place to distribute them, support the sales and then also warrant and have some spare parts. Also our warehouse and distribution costs are higher due to union wage increases.Then our retail lease costs are higher. So it all adds up to much higher cost to get to market and support. How much higher is up for debate.

[pheggie]

MarkTecher, on Aug 24 2011, 10:27 PM, said:

Nor me.  So the next question: Will it sell for that price?

Amazon.com are selling it for pre-order at that price $1499USD but not shipping it internationally.

Edited by pheggie, 25 August 2011 - 04:17 PM.

[cwt]

MLXXX, on Aug 24 2011, 10:02 PM, said:

The user manual for the Optoma HD33 is silent on setting different shutter glasses alternation rates for 3D for this DLP projector. Presumably 24fps video is projected at 120Hz (60Hz per eye). That seems to be the norm for first generation home 3D projectors.

I note that 120Hz falls short of the 144Hz (72Hz per eye) of RealD commercial cinema projectors.  Not only is the RealD rate faster, but it is a multiple of 24fps, permitting original Left and Right images of a 24fps source to be projected without pull down or other manipulation.

Its restricted by the hdmi specs it seems mlxxx ;this is from an optoma engineer;

http://www.avsforum....29#post20833329

The colourwheel may be/seems compatible with 120hz if it is in fact rgb/rgb ?? Would help explain the much better 'cinema 2d' calibrated 3d light compared to 1st gen 3d projectors[not to mention the new panny 3d when calibrated]. The dearer ones look nice too

Quote

The machine has PureMotion4D processing ensures smooth and judder-free images for greater realism like the more expensive one. It also uses RF frequency for the glasses while competitor models just use IR, RF is a much more powerful receiving technique. Glasses are $99. It also uses a 6xspeed color wheel that's RGB/RGB. It has two seperate tuning memories one for 2D other for 3D.

Quote

Tuned down for Cinema 2D I get a whopping 27.5 foot candles.

[MLXXX]

cwt, on Aug 26 2011, 03:34 AM, said:

Its restricted by the hdmi specs it seems mlxxx ;this is from an optoma engineer;

http://www.avsforum....29#post20833329

The colourwheel may be/seems compatible with 120hz if it is in fact rgb/rgb ?? Would help explain the much better 'cinema 2d' calibrated 3d light compared to 1st gen 3d projectors[not to mention the new panny 3d when calibrated]. The dearer ones look nice too

AVS Forum post of 17AUG2011 said:

Here's Wings answer.

"It can take 720p at 120Hz signal and internally upconvert to 1080p 120hz but it cannot take 1080p at 120Hz signal from external source –not part of HDMI 1,4a 3D format

– current Bu-ray 3D format is frame packing 1080p at 24 Hz – as according to HDMI 1.4a – user has the choice to keep it at 24 Hz or add frame interpolation."

I agree you can't send very high frame rates over an HDMI connection. However internally a flat panel display or a projector may be capable of operating at a higher frame rate. Higher internal frame rates can be used for the display of additional, internally generated, motion interpolated frames.  Of course if a projector colour wheel has an upper limit of 120Hz then that is a hard limit that will constrain the 3D alternation rate. If using one such projector you will not be able to alternate between L and R frames any faster than 120Hz.

Some LCD panels operate at 480HZ but the method of operation can be complicated.  Although 480Hz might appear to imply a 3D alternation rate of 240Hz this is not necessarily so. In order to reduce ghosting to an acceptable level, such a panel could alternate L and R frames for 3D purposes at only 120Hz and use some of the extra frame rate capacity to insert blank frames.

I discuss my own lack of comfort with watching 3D at a 100Hz (Australian 50fps material) or a 120Hz rate (e.g. movies at 24p) in the thread: 3d Shutter Glasses And Their Effect On Perception Of Motion.

[cwt]

MLXXX, on Aug 26 2011, 11:40 AM, said:

I agree you can't send very high frame rates over an HDMI connection. However internally a flat panel display or a projector may be capable of operating at a higher frame rate. Higher internal frame rates can be used for the display of additional, internally generated, motion interpolated frames.  Of course if a projector colour wheel has an upper limit of 120Hz then that is a hard limit that will constrain the 3D alternation rate. If using one such projector you will not be able to alternate between L and R frames any faster than 120Hz.

Yes good point; should definately separate hdmi restrictions from projector frame rates   I notice some favourable comments @ avs about sony's motion flow on the new 30es [when set to low] so will be interesting when the new models are compared

I wonder why more projectors dont use polarised glasses ; nothings hardly compatible until the new standards are introduced it seems

[MLXXX]

cwt, on Aug 26 2011, 05:57 PM, said:

I wonder why more projectors dont use polarised glasses

With polarised glasses:

1. Requires addition of polariser at the light output of the projector that can rapidly change state in time with the alternation of Left and Right frame images  produced by the light engine of the projector.
2. Requires slivered screen to maintain polarisation of the light when reflected back to the audience.

With shutter glasses:

1. Requires infra red or other emitter to send synchronising pulses to shutter glasses in time with the alternation of Left and Right frame images produced by the light engine of the projector.

If the viewing audience is small, shutter glasses may provide the cheaper solution.

An alternative approach with polarised glasses is using dual projectors with a fixed polarisation for each projector, e.g. the LG CF3D which involves two projectors in the one housing sharing a common lens.

[cwt]

MLXXX, on Aug 26 2011, 09:07 PM, said:

With polarised glasses:

1. Requires addition of polariser at the light output of the projector that can rapidly change state in time with the alternation of Left and Right frame images  produced by the light engine of the projector.
2. Requires slivered screen to maintain polarisation of the light when reflected back to the audience.

With shutter glasses:

1. Requires infra red or other emitter to send synchronising pulses to shutter glasses in time with the alternation of Left and Right frame images produced by the light engine of the projector.

If the viewing audience is small, shutter glasses may provide the cheaper solution.

An alternative approach with polarised glasses is using dual projectors with a fixed polarisation for each projector, e.g. the LG CF3D which involves two projectors in the one housing sharing a common lens.

Was more thinking about the poor lumens resulting when one eyes shutter is closed ; maybe the 3rd option would be better ; though I admittedly have no clue how much light loss this entails    I like the fact that my dvdfab file converter can output many different types of anaglyph 2d>3d conversions to experience this one day  

Quote

Passive Infitech or SuperAnaglyph (No special type projection screen required)

Infitec stands for interference filter technology. Special interference filters in the glasses and in the projector form the main item of technology and have given it this name. The filters divide the visible color spectrum into six narrow bands - two in the red region, two in the green region, and two in the blue region (called R1, R2, G1, G2, B1 and B2 for the purposes of this description). The R1, G1 and B1 bands are used for one eye image, and R2, G2, B2 for the other eye. The human eye is largely insensitive to such fine spectral differences so this technique is able to generate full-color 3D images with only slight color differences between the two eyes. No special type of projection screen required.

[MLXXX]

cwt, on Aug 27 2011, 05:06 AM, said:

Was more thinking about the poor lumens resulting when one eyes shutter is closed ; maybe the 3rd option would be better ; though I admittedly have no clue how much light loss this entails

Even the third option (two projectors, each with fixed polarisation filter) loses  50% at the projector lumens with the polarisarion filters. Also there is a transmission loss of 20% at the glasses. Higher screen gain partly compensates. If using a single projector there's an extra 8% loss, for blanking time between polarizations. Source: http://www.edcf.net/...docs/real-d.pdf

As  for the Dolby 3D infitec method, with its narrow band filters, this doesn't seem to be available cheaply for home cinemas although it allows use of a standard screen. I'd need to be persuaded it didn't affect colour too much.

[Highjinx]

cwt, on Aug 27 2011, 05:06 AM, said:

..........................................though I admittedly have no clue how much light loss this entails  

85%

[cwt]

MLXXX, on Aug 27 2011, 10:07 AM, said:

Even the third option (two projectors, each with fixed polarisation filter) loses  50% at the projector lumens with the polarisarion filters. Also there is a transmission loss of 20% at the glasses. Higher screen gain partly compensates. If using a single projector there's an extra 8% loss, for blanking time between polarizations. Source: http://www.edcf.net/...docs/real-d.pdf

As  for the Dolby 3D infitec method, with its narrow band filters, this doesn't seem to be available cheaply for home cinemas although it allows use of a standard screen. I'd need to be persuaded it didn't affect colour too much.

Its interesting to watch posters like zombie10k make much of his 2.8 gain screen and the new sony. Will be interesting to compare the sonys 'pulse lamp' tech to this optoma ;the 2nd gen machines are getting brighter thankfully  

Quote

85%

[MarkTecher]

MLXXX, on Aug 27 2011, 10:07 AM, said:

As  for the Dolby 3D infitec method, with its narrow band filters, this doesn't seem to be available cheaply for home cinemas although it allows use of a standard screen. I'd need to be persuaded it didn't affect colour too much.

That is why it is removable for 2D.  There is a colour change, but it is so slight I doubt you could tell from video on screen alone.  You will see it when looking at light from another source though.

[JoeFourMan]

pheggie, on Aug 25 2011, 04:17 PM, said:

Amazon.com are selling it for pre-order at that price $1499USD but not shipping it internationally.

Anyone seen any good deals for a locally sold HD33?
Any interest in a group buy?

At time of writing the dollar is back up to $1.03 yet Aus retailers are still asking $2300ish.
Anyone got any leads on a cracking deal?