82 replies to this topic

[jrp001]

bellotv, on Aug 21 2011, 06:08 PM, said:

Spot on jrp001. I  was just about to say the same..

Going out on a limb here ,but I'd say there is nothing that a T40a (with the AER upgrade)  can't tell you that a more expensive "bells and whistles" analyzer can.

I agree.
With analogue i still like the sync and burst display...But analogue is just about over anyway.

[beeblebrox]

bellotv, on Aug 21 2011, 06:08 PM, said:

Spot on jrp001. I  was just about to say the same..

Going out on a limb here ,but I'd say there is nothing that a T40a (with the AER upgrade)  can't tell you that a more expensive "bells and whistles" analyzer can.

Absolutely, If he's just doing residential terrestrial then the T40a is a great meter to be using.   Sure it's not the fastest around, but it does have everything you're likely to need in the domestic situation.  Like any meter it should be calibrated on a regular basis which Lacey's can do.

[jrp001]

beeblebrox, on Aug 22 2011, 07:39 PM, said:

Absolutely, If he's just doing residential terrestrial then the T40a is a great meter to be using.   Sure it's not the fastest around, but it does have everything you're likely to need in the domestic situation.  Like any meter it should be calibrated on a regular basis which Lacey's can do.

Yeah get lacey's 2 calibrate it, maybe the can f**k the frequency response up on your meter as they done 2 my T40.

Broadband noise feed into input.

http://i990.photobuc...p001/before.jpg

Edited by jrp001, 22 August 2011 - 09:10 PM.

[MIA DIGITAL]

jrp001, on Aug 22 2011, 09:07 PM, said:

Yeah get lacey's 2 calibrate it, maybe the can f**k the frequency response up on your meter as they done 2 my T40.

Broadband noise feed into input.

http://i990.photobuc...p001/before.jpg

God dam you have to be  sh%ting me that is bad  

Edited by MIA DIGITAL, 23 August 2011 - 05:04 PM.

[beeblebrox]

I'm not particularly a laceys supporter but did you ask them to fix it again? Surely they wouldn't have left it like that.


My point was that any meter should be professionally recalibrated on a regular basis.

[The Baja]

I used to use the T40. If it was That GOOD, Then why would anybody Buy anything else.

Yep you guys can continue to use your T40's.  


If you want to do a quality install then you need good quality tools. If you Just want to Scrape Thru and Cash in on the trade, Then don't forget to fire-up the T40.

If i decided tomorrow that i wanted to Cash in on the electrical trade, Should i go out and Purchase a Cheap Dickie Smith Multimeter?????????????????



Good Luck


Cheer's



Baja

[beeblebrox]

horses for courses.  My day to day meter is a DSA500 nowadays but given a choice between a T40 and the rest of the sub$2k meter market I'd choose a T40 any day.

[jrp001]

This happened under warranty and  i sent picture's in and said it wasnt the same as it was new, they said they sent them 2 unaohm and there was nothing they could do.

http://i990.photobuc...p001/before.jpg

Well i f****ng cracked and told them (lacey's) what i thought, then they sent me an e-mail saying they dont want 2 deal with me anymore if i thought there service wasnt good enough for me.(take a look at the picture above, would you be happy with that)

And the bullshit reasons they gave me for the **** frequency response, they must have thought i just got into the trade.

Being in the TV repair bizo i thought i would repair it my self.

After spending many day's tracking through surface mount components and drawing a schematic diagram of the input, 1st and 2nd IF stages, I worked out how the meter worked.

After analyzing the eeprom data and modifying the HEX CAL  data i straightend the linear ramp in the response from 45 to 860 MHz. (see pix below)

http://i990.photobuc...01/100_0376.jpg

But i still wasnt happy with the frequency response so i pulled out the test gear.

After many more days i finally worked it out and replaced a part and this was my frequency response from 45 to 860 MHz. (see pix below)

http://i990.photobuc...01/100_0640.jpg

Now i was happy, still some small adjustments on the CAL but hey, I done this with no service manual or schematics and no unaohm support so what does this say about our australian unaohm service centre with all the support they want.

Yeah they send you a pix of the cal at a level of 60dBuV @ 500MHz but what about the rest of the scale...Im sure thats just the same pix sent out 2 everybody.

Oh and maybe mark.b or someone from lacey's can make a comment on this as i would love 2 post some e-mails aswell.

My advice is 2 get a noise gen and sweep your meter your self, you might get a big shock as i have tested 5-T40's and they have all been up sh*t creek....Thanks 2 lacey's great service & CAL.

[The Baja]

beeblebrox, on Aug 23 2011, 04:54 PM, said:

horses for courses.  My day to day meter is a DSA500 nowadays but given a choice between a T40 and the rest of the sub$2k meter market I'd choose a T40 any day.

How are you matey,


The IKUSI DSA-500 ( Re-Badged Rover Sat )had a lot of issues at the start ( software & Hardware ) but with the BETTER Battery & firmware upgrade they give Pretty Good readings. DO NOT upgrade Firmware from the IKUSI site in SPAIN. That firmware was for the European DSA-500. My old DSA-500 ( which was very new at that stage ) was rendered useless after a Firmware upgrade. They May have Changed Things but still safe to get the latest firmware upgrade from your distributor in Australia.

Ikusi VERY promptly recognized this and Replaced the DSA-500 with a NEW one    "Good service"

The DSA-500 is a Reliable unit when working well & Calibrated BUT at the end of the day it is NOT a Real-time Machine

With regards to the meters in the 2k market i would recommend a  SEFRAM FTA meter. it will come way under that & the readings are also very GOOD. Yes i tested one.

There is Certainly Much,Much Better technology out there in the meter range, than the OLD T40.   

I have configured a Headend to within almost 1/2 a dbuv output on FTA VHF & UHF That was using a sefram 7861HD Meter.

On a brighter note, People Dream about what they might buy if they WON LOTTO , I still Dream about my own 300k+ Network Analyzer     


Cheer's



Baja


Cheer's


Baja

[The Baja]

jrp001, on Aug 23 2011, 06:22 PM, said:

http://i990.photobuc...p001/before.jpg


http://i990.photobuc...01/100_0376.jpg


http://i990.photobuc...01/100_0640.jpg

  

First let me say that I Think that you are being a bit TOOO hard on Lacey's TV. That's a re-badged unit. Ikusi had the same re-badged unit and had Calibration issues as well.........

Correct me if i am wrong, but that T40 you have has NO calibration certificate ?????

Time to upgrade


Just bite the bullet and get a decent meter, Matey As i said before your job is only as good as the tools you use


Cheer's



Baja

[jrp001]

Baja_Dave, on Aug 23 2011, 09:47 PM, said:

First let me say that I Think that you are being a bit TOOO hard on Lacey's TV. That's a re-badged unit. Ikusi had the same re-badged unit and had Calibration issues as well.........

Correct me if i am wrong, but that T40 you have has NO calibration certificate ?????

Time to upgrade


Just bite the bullet and get a decent meter, Matey As i said before your job is only as good as the tools you use


Cheer's



Baja

What is re-badged?..The unaohm?

What and sefram has a cal certificate?

When you talk cal, what are you talking about dB level?

You talk about your headend alignment 2 within 1/2 a dB...........Why waste you time.

[bellotv]

Baja_Dave, on Aug 23 2011, 06:23 PM, said:

I used to use the T40. If it was That GOOD, Then why would anybody Buy anything else.

Yep you guys can continue to use your T40's.  


If you want to do a quality install then you need good quality tools. If you Just want to Scrape Thru and Cash in on the trade, Then don't forget to fire-up the T40.

If i decided tomorrow that i wanted to Cash in on the electrical trade, Should i go out and Purchase a Cheap Dickie Smith Multimeter?????????????????



Good Luck


Cheer's



Baja

Sorry if I sound defensive but the tone of the above is some what offensive if not off topic .Oh that's right its not your OP so its fine to be off topic

The measure of a man in not by the size of his tool but how he uses it

A good tradesman doesn't blame his tools .

OK so I've only got a" little one " but funnily enough it shows all the parameters that are needed to successfully install an antenna that will provide reliable digital reception to my customers. In fact my piss-ant little meter has sorted quite a few jobs that have been bodged by the boys with their big tools

Since this forum is all about passing on factual information to help each other out and hopefully not just not just piss taking please
tell me what parameters your meter  can divulge  that I couldn't possibly determine with a mere T40.????

BTW

I did trial an AP01 for a few weeks and although I got quite a "WOW factor" when I walked into a customers house with it ,It couldn't help me any more than a T40a could.

Up on the roof the bigger unit was a cumbersome pain in the arse.

Holding a 5 meter mast in one arm while shielding the sun off the screen so you could read it and check various channels for BER MER was a joke .

The T40a is easy to read in all sunlight conditions ,easy to hold and manipulate the controls one handed.

Oh and the T40a has histogram .
Haa the wankers with big toys say.
But histogram is one thing that T40 has that not many meters have .In every day installs this feature saves heaps of time locating best spots on roofs and is gold when customer complains of brake-up in windy conditions.Yeah trees we have **** loads of them here .

The spectrum of T40a is not as defined as a "bigger unit " ( the RB bandwidth is larger )  but none the less in a practical everyday application it shows up all the interference that one is likely to experience.

Hey I'd love a flash new meter  but at the end of the day it would not be justifiable.

[The Baja]

jrp001, on Aug 23 2011, 08:08 PM, said:

What is re-badged?..The unaohm?  Yes like many others OEM??

What and sefram has a cal certificate?  All need a Calibration certificate to be sure they meet certain standards

When you talk cal, what are you talking about dB level?  with your Knowledge I don't Believe you just asked that question?

You talk about your headend alignment 2 within 1/2 a dB...........Why waste you time.  You are Very Correct there. That's just being TOOO Anal. But  at least I Attempt to get things Perfect as possible. This is only possible with the equipment that you chose to do the job     

Answered


Cheer's


Baja

[beeblebrox]

bellotv, on Aug 23 2011, 10:19 PM, said:

But histogram is one thing that T40 has that not many meters have .In every day installs this feature saves heaps of time locating best spots on roofs and is gold when customer complains of brake-up in windy conditions.

One of the reasons I didn't buy an AP01 and went to the Iksui instead still had the histogram (as does the T40) which is invaluable every day doing site tests.  Would like to move to something that does DVB-s2 but the cost vs the return on investment isn't there at the moment.



As for the job being only as good as the tool used... well yes and no... a master craftsman doesn't always need the biggest and best tool to create a piece of work.  (not that I'd call myself a master anything)  but I never got callbacks when I owned a T40, as I don't get callbacks now because whilst having a meter that can give me accurate information is important , if you can't interpret and act on the information then it's wasted.  there's lots of money spent on meters by guys who haven't got the faintest about  what the information it's given them means.  be it horizon, unaohm, rover, iksui, promax, sefram whoever you're still not going to account for them.  or the  guys still using analogue meters or none at all.

The Op has invested in a meter that if calibrated correctly and not screwed up will perform well for terrestrial digital installations sure there's plenty of better meters around but if he has a tool that works reliably then he's a quarter of the way there!

[The Baja]

bellotv, on Aug 23 2011, 08:19 PM, said:

OK so I've only got a" little one "

I am so SORRY to hear about that 'bellotv'

But i am glad to see that you have come to terms with your inadequacies     

don't try to justify this.

it's just wrong if one is charging the Customer MAX Dollars for an install and using the Crappy old equipment to do the job & try to claim that is the best on the market when there is Clearly better equipment on the market available. " Hey " But Domestic customers don't know that now, Do they?

When the customer complains they generally make all sorts of  excuses. and try to get the customer to pay MORE CASH   See this happen all too often.

Let's hope the general public is viewing this thread & Post


Have fun with the T40


Cheer's


Baja

Edited by Baja_Dave, 24 August 2011 - 12:13 AM.

[jrp001]

Baja_Dave, on Aug 23 2011, 11:22 PM, said:

Answered


Cheer's


Baja

Fill us in on these OEM meters (unaohm)

[Tazzy2Heads]

bellotv, on Aug 23 2011, 10:19 PM, said:

Sorry if I sound defensive but the tone of the above is some what offensive if not off topic .Oh that's right its not your OP so its fine to be off topic

The measure of a man in not by the size of his tool but how he uses it

A good tradesman doesn't blame his tools .

OK so I've only got a" little one " but funnily enough it shows all the parameters that are needed to successfully install an antenna that will provide reliable digital reception to my customers. In fact my piss-ant little meter has sorted quite a few jobs that have been bodged by the boys with their big tools

Since this forum is all about passing on factual information to help each other out and hopefully not just not just piss taking please
tell me what parameters your meter  can divulge  that I couldn't possibly determine with a mere T40.????

BTW

I did trial an AP01 for a few weeks and although I got quite a "WOW factor" when I walked into a customers house with it ,It couldn't help me any more than a T40a could.

Up on the roof the bigger unit was a cumbersome pain in the arse.

Holding a 5 meter mast in one arm while shielding the sun off the screen so you could read it and check various channels for BER MER was a joke .

The T40a is easy to read in all sunlight conditions ,easy to hold and manipulate the controls one handed.

Oh and the T40a has histogram .
Haa the wankers with big toys say.
But histogram is one thing that T40 has that not many meters have .In every day installs this feature saves heaps of time locating best spots on roofs and is gold when customer complains of brake-up in windy conditions.Yeah trees we have **** loads of them here .

The spectrum of T40a is not as defined as a "bigger unit " ( the RB bandwidth is larger )  but none the less in a practical everyday application it shows up all the interference that one is likely to experience.

Hey I'd love a flash new meter  but at the end of the day it would not be justifiable.

Hi Bellotv and Guys,
Interesting to see everyones views on the humble T40A
When Digital Tv kicked in down here I bought a Datum 10 knowing full well it was a basic digital meter and that was all I could justify at the time.
When the T40A turned up I bought one because it could measure MER and shows CSI and uncorrected error count etc , and as with the Datum 10 can power an amp. Also knowing it is a basic digital meter, and it is all I can justify spending money on seeing as most of my work is domestic fixing up diy's and other peoples stuff ups for which nobody wants to pay for .Like everyone else I would like a more impressive and dare I say it more accurate meter
but like all other installers working in the domestic market there isn't the profit there when it's a cheapest man wins attitude by the public. Lets face it only about 1% of the tv installations would be done with a meter in the domestic market with all the diy's and every man and his dog having a go these days.
I agree with Bellow it is good on and under roofs and floors, and should have enough functions to cover most installations.I still use the historgram on the
Datum 10 for finding the hot spots quickly then use the T40A for detail etc. If I drove over the T40 tomorrow I would probably buy another one, but would certainly look at others, but once again price unfortunately would be a factor. My 2cents worth . Tazzy.

[The Baja]

jrp001, on Aug 23 2011, 09:42 PM, said:

Fill us in on these OEM meters (unaohm)

  

What?  

" The term, OEM (original equipment manufacturer) refers to companies that make products for others to repackage and sell. Resellers buy OEM products in bulk, minus the costly retail packaging that comes with individually sold units. The product itself is essentially the same as its more expensive, retail-packaged sibling. OEM products are used in many industries, but are perhaps most prevalent in electronics."


The above definition is NOT Mine, But should help.


Cheer's


Baja

[jrp001]

Baja_Dave, on Aug 23 2011, 09:47 PM, said:

First let me say that I Think that you are being a bit TOOO hard on Lacey's TV. That's a re-badged unit. Ikusi had the same re-badged unit and had Calibration issues as well.........

Correct me if i am wrong, but that T40 you have has NO calibration certificate ?????

Time to upgrade


Just bite the bullet and get a decent meter, Matey As i said before your job is only as good as the tools you use


Cheer's



Baja

Look at picture 1 then picture 3 and anyone tell me who would be happy with picture 1. (im not too hard on them it was f****d up under warranty)

Dont just ref 3 of my pictures and babble s**t about rebadge, I know ikusi is a rebadged unaohm, but your saying unaohm is rebadged.

They are the importer and repairer, the job should be done right.....I dont care what brand or rebadge it is.

What are these calibration faults you are talking about expert....Please fill us in on all these faults.

As for calibration i have a known ref i check my meters with every week.....And within a few db is good enough for me anyway.

Point is i knew it wasnt right and fixed it.....

You seem like one of those guys that runs around telling everyone how good his 6k meter is and doesnt even know how 2 use half of the fuctions, let alone what they mean.

[The Baja]

jrp001, on Aug 24 2011, 07:39 AM, said:

Look at picture 1 then picture 3 and anyone tell me who would be happy with picture 1. (im not too hard on them it was f****d up under warranty)

Dont just ref 3 of my pictures and babble s**t about rebadge, I know ikusi is a rebadged unaohm, but your saying unaohm is rebadged.

They are the importer and repairer, the job should be done right.....I dont care what brand or rebadge it is.

What are these calibration faults you are talking about expert....Please fill us in on all these faults.

As for calibration i have a known ref i check my meters with every week.....And within a few db is good enough for me anyway.

Point is i knew it wasnt right and fixed it.....

You seem like one of those guys that runs around telling everyone how good his 6k meter is and doesnt even know how 2 use half of the fuctions, let alone what they mean.

Hey "Mr RF Hero", That uses a T40. and think that your god's gift to the RF Industry. Fcuking Funny ****............


There are many companies that send me their meters to Checkout and put them thru their Paces. YES i use an Expensive Meter and Know all the functions in the meter, I also train others On how to use the Their Meters.

I assign a lot of work out to Contractors, If any ONE of those contractors Used a T40 to do a JOB, I will Never assign a Single install to that installer, until they have upgraded their Meter to a better one. I guess you will Fall into that Category " Mr RF HERO".

Do you put your Crappy T40 thru a Network Analyzer " Mr RF Hero"

Have you heard of a 5 Wire system " Mr RF Hero" Or do you use your substandard Equipment to Install Domestic Antennas ONLY.

Let us ALL send our METERS to our Friend " Mr RF HERO " for Calibration to HIS Standard's


Come-on "Mr RF HERO" get off your high Horse.  


Cheer's


Baja

[MIA DIGITAL]

Hey Baja bet you and you contractors do a lot of foxtell work?
And my t40a is foxtel approved now I bet that puts a sour tast in your mouth

Sarcarcism ment.

[The Baja]

MIA DIGITAL, on Aug 24 2011, 10:47 AM, said:

Hey Baja bet you and you contractors do a lot of foxtell work?
And my t40a is foxtel approved now I bet that puts a sour tast in your mouth

Sarcarcism ment.

Yes a Lot, ( Commercial )  the DSA-500 for fox. much better than the T40. Now what dose that taste like   

" Mr RF Hero's " T40 on the other hand cant be used for this purpose, because he Calibrates his own meter. and there is NO official Calibration Certificate.

Hey "MIA DIGITAL" Have you EVER seen what a calibration certificate looks like. I doubt very much.

Stick to your Domestic Installs with your Crappy Instruments. NOT my loss. when the public continually call you back to fix your mess Give them all the Excuses you can find as usual.


with regards to your Sarcasm, Well i really don't Care mate. you are trying to be Sarcastic But Can't Spell TASTE  



Cheer's



Baja

Edited by Baja_Dave, 24 August 2011 - 01:36 PM.

[MIA DIGITAL]

Baja_Dave, on Aug 24 2011, 01:32 PM, said:

Yes a Lot, ( Commercial )  the DSA-500 for fox. much better than the T40. Now what dose that taste like   

" Mr RF Hero's " T40 on the other hand cant be used for this purpose, because he Calibrates his own meter. and there is NO official Calibration Certificate.

Hey "MIA DIGITAL" Have you EVER seen what a calibration certificate looks like. I doubt very much.

Stick to your Domestic Installs with your Crappy Instruments. NOT my loss. when the public continually call you back to fix your mess Give them all the Excuses you can find as usual.


with regards to your Sarcasm, Well i really don't Care mate. you are trying to be Sarcastic But Can't Spell TASTE  









Cheer's

Have you EVER seen what a calibration certificate looks like. I doubt very much.

Yes I do my t40came with one.
You say if your contractors have a t40 they don't get the work until they get a better netter.
What metter would that be Baja one you sell?
Sounds like you may have a little invested intrest but hey we do what we do.



Baja

Edited by MIA DIGITAL, 24 August 2011 - 04:38 PM.

[The Baja]

"You say if your contractors have a t40 they don't get the work until they get a better netter.
What metter would that be Baja one you sell?
Sounds like you may have a little invested intrest but hey we do what we do."



No...... They can use Any Brand Analyzer they want as long as it is NOT a Crappy T40 or anything Similar to that. I have in the past Loaned My DSA-500 to a Contractors that was stuck on a Job.


I certainly Hope that the quality of work you turn out with your Happy Crappy T40, Is Better than your Spelling But that would be impossible       



Cheer's



Baja

[dig2all]

lots of flaming but few facts - ease up guys!