34 replies to this topic

[brake]

So I called up the Office of Fair Trading the other day for a friend. His 50" Panasonic plasma kicked the bucket 3 months out of the factory 1 year warranty and he didn't buy extended warranty. I just wanted to get his options for him on how to go about dealing with getting it repaired/replaced for free, I thought he would have been protected enough and have a pretty strong case, especially with the new consumer protection laws that supposedly gave us more 'protection' - You spend around $2000 on a TV and it dies after 14 months? That doesn't scream merchantable/acceptable quality if you ask me.

The lady on the phone said there was basically nothing that could be done about it and she also commented on how many people have been calling up to complain about their Plasma's.

Now, I thought - even without the new consumer protection laws that were passed this year - that we as consumers would have been more than protected in a case like this. I'm in the market for a new TV soon and was going to pass on the extended warranty. My thinking was that if you spend a decent amount on a TV it shouldn't be too hard to get it repaired or replaced if something untoward should occur, unfortunately this doesn't appear to be the case.

I remember seeing on a news program of some sorts that there is a way to get warranty on a TV even if it's factory warranty expired by some loophole or something, or might have even been a basic consumer right that no one really knew about. Does anyone know about this?

[pgdownload]

First up, the new laws aren't retrospective. If the TV was bought before the start of this year then the old laws apply.

Secondly the the new laws do more explicitly state that expensive goods should be expected to last longer than a year and a Tv suffering complete failure would essentially need to be replaced.

Third, the laws never protected purchases against a component failure. If your friends TV is unrepairable (or is being quoted $1000s to repair) then they do have a strong case. If they need to spend a few hundred $ repairing the TV then they don't.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[DM Dave]

Which brand,model and retailer?

What happened to it?

[OzyColin]

Gee, that's bloody tough! Regardless of warranty, I would have thought it would have been in Panasonic's AND the retailers interest to replace the TV. Hope he get's it sorted!

[lidz]

How did your friend pay for it? If they paid with a gold credit card then they should get an extra years warranty through the credit card company (thats how mine works at least).

Edited by lidz, 11 June 2011 - 09:59 AM.

[brake]

pgdownload, on Jun 11 2011, 12:30 AM, said:

First up, the new laws aren't retrospective. If the TV was bought before the start of this year then the old laws apply.

Secondly the the new laws do more explicitly state that expensive goods should be expected to last longer than a year and a Tv suffering complete failure would essentially need to be replaced.

Third, the laws never protected purchases against a component failure. If your friends TV is unrepairable (or is being quoted $1000s to repair) then they do have a strong case. If they need to spend a few hundred $ repairing the TV then they don't.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Oh ok thanks for that information.

The TV is getting the flashing red lights of death, So it could just be a particular component that has failed.

DM Dave, on Jun 11 2011, 03:31 AM, said:

Which brand,model and retailer?

What happened to it?

Panasonic 50" S series from last year.

It just starting to get the blinking red lights of death.

lidz, on Jun 11 2011, 09:59 AM, said:

How did your friend pay for it? If they paid with a gold credit card then they should get an extra years warranty through the credit card company (thats how mine works at least).

Nah he either paid cash or normal credit card, he doesn't have a gold card or anything special like that.

[DM Dave]

How many flashes......ie 7 or 11?

Where'd ya friend get it? One case here during the last year involved a 3 year promotional deal that Hardly Normal ran at the time of purchase.Unlikely,however.

I can tell you that JB was doing what they could to clear the last of this model by highly recommending it as the best buy!

If it is a faulty power board,Panasonic knew about the fault before they shipped it.Ditto.....retailer should have/would have known.

Could it be dust build up?

New laws and old Trade Practices Act are basically the same.Both worth a read.If your friend paid say $1300 for a TV that had been recommended by a salesman who knew of the likely fault.............how much time do you have up your sleeve?

Definitely not buying a Panny 65" on Boxing Day!

Edited by DM Dave, 11 June 2011 - 05:52 PM.

[brake]

DM Dave, on Jun 11 2011, 05:40 PM, said:

How many flashes......ie 7 or 11?

Where'd ya friend get it? One case here during the last year involved a 3 year promotional deal that Hardly Normal ran at the time of purchase.Unlikely,however.

I can tell you that JB was doing what they could to clear the last of this model by highly recommending it as the best buy!

If it is a faulty power board,Panasonic knew about the fault before they shipped it.Ditto.....retailer should have/would have known.

Could it be dust build up?

New laws and old Trade Practices Act are basically the same.Both worth a read.If your friend paid say $1300 for a TV that had been recommended by a salesman who knew of the likely fault.............how much time do you have up your sleeve?

Definitely not buying a Panny 65" on Boxing Day!

Hi sorry for the tardiness, My friend had to get  his wife to count the flashes as he's away. She said it blinks 7 times.

He got it at Retravision.

[pgdownload]

Found this on a pretty similar model (answer provided by TV technician)

Quote

Panasonic TH42Px75 Will not come on blinks 7 times. then blinks 7 times again and quits blinking thats the red led

Quote

The issue is either the SC board, one of the S buffer boards, or possibly the P, SS, or D board. Connectors P2, SC2, SC20, or D20 might be loose. Unplug the set. Check and reseat the connectors first. Replug and power... still blinking?

Unplug the set.
Disconnect the SC board (two connections, SC2 and SC20)
Plug the set in and try it.
- Does the set turn on and stay on (No blinks and of course no screen)? If so, reconnect the SC board and alternately try disconnecting the SU and SD boards. The board that makes the set blink is bad. If the set blinks with both the SU and SD disconnected, the SC board is bad. If the SC board replacement doesn't fix the issue the D board is bad. (Way to go with vague troubleshooting, Panasonic!)
- If the set still shuts down with a 7 blink error with the SC disconnected, attach a voltmeter to connector P25 pin 1. try turning the set on. Does 15VDC appear here, even if briefly? If not, the P board is bad. If so, test connector P2 pin 1 in the same way. If Vsus (about 180VDC on Panasonics) appears after turning the set on and before the set shuts down, the SS board is bad. If no Vsus, the P board is bad.

If you don't measure any Vsus in the last step, you might want to disconnect the SS board to see if that changes your readings. Disconnecting power to the SS board may generate a fault by itself and shut the set down, I'm not sure - different models behave differently.

And I grabbed this description  from the actual 50S20 service manual:

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[DM Dave]

The SC board issue has attracted sufficient wrath over the last few years that Panasonic have an extended warranty policy on them in some countries eg. US of A.

Mainly because a class action was brewing.

Not so,the SD and SU boards.

[brake]

pgdownload, on Jun 17 2011, 12:07 PM, said:

Found this on a pretty similar model (answer provided by TV technician)





And I grabbed this description  from the actual 50S20 service manual:

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Wow thanks for that, that's great!

Will doing any of this void any potential "out of warranty service" help that he may get?

[pgdownload]

brake, on Jun 19 2011, 03:46 AM, said:

Wow thanks for that, that's great! Will doing any of this void any potential "out of warranty service" help that he may get?

Not necessarily, Not sure how accessible the plug mentioned is (back off TV? small flap?)  They'd also need to get the diagnosis tool.

At this point it might be better to contact a service person. Now that they know pretty much what the issue is they could probably get a quote for the 3 scenarios involved. Might be able to get a service agent to come in the house with the parts needed and fix it on the spot.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[Owen]

Spam reported

[DM Dave]

He has hit with 45 posts.Hope no one clicks any links.

[DM Dave]

My previous post was not aimed at Owen,but the Spammer he reported.There were 84 posts with several links in each,when I hit the hay shortly after.I Googled the fool.......the Spammer.......and he has pages of entries spread over a multitude of sites.

Seriously though......keep up the good work Owen!

[hd-abc123]

Speaking from experience (Working in a electrical retailer) the best course of action is to go back to where you bought it from and say you are not happy with the life of the product and contacted consumer affairs and they suggested a replacement.  Only speak to the manager or assistant.  More often then not, he may have it replaced or repaired free of charge.  Retailers take contact from ACC very seriously and make sure you press hard.  

One example I saw was a $600 32" LCD over 2 years old replaced with a brand new model as it was cheaper to do this than repair it.  This customer was certainly a handful to deal with, we always used to say that the nastiest customers always got what they wanted!

[vallatv]

when it comes to exteneded warranty i work on the rule if it's around $900+ and the warranty is like a extra $130 then get it. My toshiba lcd had a 2 year manufacture warranty and I took a extra 3 years for $129 (tv was about $1400). 2 months after the 2 year manufature warranty ended i had problems rang retailer who took all the details and transfered me to the warranty people, got a repairer in my area. Dropped if off to him on the way to work and picked up on the way home fixed and cost me nothing out of pocket. It was a just a capacitor gone bad and they guy told me it no time at all to fix it andf he just billed the warranty people.
Got a frontload washing machine for about $888 and added the extended warranty for $149 (3 years). hope i don't need to use it.

Just bought a lap top for $699 and extended was $180 and didn't buy it.
So i  just work on if the cost of extra 3 years is only about 10-15% of the purchase price than it is worth it if it's more forget it.

[brake]

hd-abc123, on Jun 28 2011, 11:27 PM, said:

Speaking from experience (Working in a electrical retailer) the best course of action is to go back to where you bought it from and say you are not happy with the life of the product and contacted consumer affairs and they suggested a replacement.  Only speak to the manager or assistant.  More often then not, he may have it replaced or repaired free of charge.  Retailers take contact from ACC very seriously and make sure you press hard.  

One example I saw was a $600 32" LCD over 2 years old replaced with a brand new model as it was cheaper to do this than repair it.  This customer was certainly a handful to deal with, we always used to say that the nastiest customers always got what they wanted!

I have passed that onto him and he's going to go into the store and hit them up!

vallatv, on Jul 16 2011, 10:03 AM, said:

when it comes to exteneded warranty i work on the rule if it's around $900+ and the warranty is like a extra $130 then get it. My toshiba lcd had a 2 year manufacture warranty and I took a extra 3 years for $129 (tv was about $1400). 2 months after the 2 year manufature warranty ended i had problems rang retailer who took all the details and transfered me to the warranty people, got a repairer in my area. Dropped if off to him on the way to work and picked up on the way home fixed and cost me nothing out of pocket. It was a just a capacitor gone bad and they guy told me it no time at all to fix it andf he just billed the warranty people.
Got a frontload washing machine for about $888 and added the extended warranty for $149 (3 years). hope i don't need to use it.

Just bought a lap top for $699 and extended was $180 and didn't buy it.
So i  just work on if the cost of extra 3 years is only about 10-15% of the purchase price than it is worth it if it's more forget it.

Thanks for that!

[mcduck]

got my tv price quote to include delivery and an extra 4 years  warranty
hurts but way cheaper than having to buy a new tv
and if something happens in a couple of years, chances are they'll get a new tv  

[Stux]

Just finished dealing with a similar scenario which has got me thinking about Extended Warranties in the future.

I used to believe that these devices were reliable, and if it lasted 1 year, it'd last 5... obviously I was mistaken.

The reality is they fail just outside of warranty, and if they fail inside warranty, then they'll fail again just outside warranty too.

Anyway, my Samsung had 3 year manufacturer, and luckily 1 year gold card extension.

At about 18 months the LCD panel failed completely, but inside warranty...

Another 20 months later the LCD panel (which was already replaced once) failed again... this time inside the 1 year credit card extended warranty.

Luckily, not economical to repair (again), so I guess I get a new LCD panel.

This time I'm going to get at least a 5 year ext warranty on it, especially since it seems most manufacturers only offer 1 year warranty... which is pathetic in its own way.


Is it really so much to ask for a major electrical device to actually be designed to last more than 4 years?

In many ways, the biggest inconvenience is having to deal with the failing device

[pgdownload]

Quote

The reality is they fail just outside of warranty

Just because a single device breaks down in a single household doesn't mean all TVs everywhere are unreliable.
The reality is a small percentage of TVs will break down in any given year. The vast majority easily last 5+ years without any issue.

Quote

especially since it seems most manufacturers only offer 1 year warranty... which is pathetic in its own way.

Providing a warranty costs the manufacturer money for every year provided. The cost of that is built into every unit sold. By offering extended warranties as a separate product consumers are free to chose to pay additional amounts for peace of mind. As it is, its generally excepted that extended warranties are a bit of a cash cow for stores, as the risk of unit failure is much less than the amount charged to cover that risk.

Quote

In many ways, the biggest inconvenience is having to deal with the failing device

Yep, which is why I say that statutory warranties should not be seen as a replacement for extended warranties. In cases of complete breakdown, both may be used to obtain a replacement/refund/etc. however an extended warranty is usually a lot less hassle.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[Stux]

This particular model, i had to have the primary component or the entire device replaced 7 times. This was supposed to be the flagship at the time.

6 times within the manufacturers warranty period, and then the final time, it was written off

This particular model has a bad track record. Some TVs might be reliable, and some might not, but I think you *could* break it down into brands and models as to which are more reliable and which are less.

Essentially, you're advocating self-insuring, where the purchaser takes the risk that it will not be their tv which breaks down but rather some other poor saps.

Third Party extended warranties are a profit centre, as such, buying them you are lining someone elses pockets who's run the numbers and is making a profit. You can win providing you pay an average price for a device with an above average failure rate as the extended warranty products are not normally model specific, but rather category or sub-category.

The manufacturer is the only party who has the ability to provide the warranty coverage at minimum cost. He can spread out the risk across the largest base and does not necessarily have to use the warranty coverage as a profit centre, unlike a corporation who's business is providing extended warranties.

The least cost option to the end user is to pay slightly more upfront to the manufacturer for a product with a longer warranty. The manufacturer could then also justify increasing their costs of inputs marginally in order to increase longevity beyond their 1 year statutory minimum, which otherwise, would be harder to justify

But in the market shaving an extra 20$ off a tv is good marketing, even if it ends up costing the end user 2000$

[mello yello]

brake, on 10 June 2011 - 10:24 PM, said:

So I called up the Office of Fair Trading the other day for a friend. His 50" Panasonic plasma kicked the bucket 3 months out of the factory 1 year warranty and he didn't buy extended warranty. I just wanted to get his options for him on how to go about dealing with getting it repaired/replaced for free, I thought he would have been protected enough and have a pretty strong case, especially with the new consumer protection laws that supposedly gave us more 'protection' - You spend around $2000 on a TV and it dies after 14 months? That doesn't scream merchantable/acceptable quality if you ask me.

The lady on the phone said there was basically nothing that could be done about it and she also commented on how many people have been calling up to complain about their Plasma's.

Now, I thought - even without the new consumer protection laws that were passed this year - that we as consumers would have been more than protected in a case like this. I'm in the market for a new TV soon and was going to pass on the extended warranty. My thinking was that if you spend a decent amount on a TV it shouldn't be too hard to get it repaired or replaced if something untoward should occur, unfortunately this doesn't appear to be the case.

I remember seeing on a news program of some sorts that there is a way to get warranty on a TV even if it's factory warranty expired by some loophole or something, or might have even been a basic consumer right that no one really knew about. Does anyone know about this?

I know youre talking about extended warranties bought from the retailer but has anyone mentioned FREE 12 months extra cover automatically applied to any purchase made with your VISA or Mastercard Gold ?

It works like this, if your appliance/TV fails within its warranty you obviously know what to do, but if it fails within 12 months beyond that manufacturers warranty you then contact VISA who refer you to their third party insurance who then ask you to either take it to their reparer or replace it depending on cost of repairs

it works as Ive had a motherboard and USB ports replaced outside of waranty by AIG via VISA

[PurpleIce]

mello yello II, on 14 February 2012 - 07:23 AM, said:

I know youre talking about extended warranties bought from the retailer but has anyone mentioned FREE 12 months extra cover automatically applied to any purchase made with your VISA or Mastercard Gold ?

Yes, already mentioned on page one ;-) Certainly worth keeping in mind.

[mello yello]

PurpleIce, on 15 February 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

Yes, already mentioned on page one ;-) Certainly worth keeping in mind.

oh so it was

oh well its pretty generic and handy to remember

you have to produce a copy of your credit card statement, so hang on to those as well

Edited by mello yello II, 16 February 2012 - 07:26 AM.