21 replies to this topic

[roadieface]

Hi all,

I'm having some major issues with a Clipsal Starserve installation. A mate set this up for me a while back but we don't really talk anymore.

We use an 8 port VDU and a 4 input modulator. The setup pic of the VDU unit is below.

http://www.soulshine...om/IMG_0634.JPG

We recently got a new TV in the bedroom and had the foxtel and IR signals running to it. IR works fine. Picture is a little blurry.

I checked out the starserve installation guide on the clipsal website, and I've set the modulator channel to 35 (UHF frequency of 576.25). It can receive both on Foxtel on both TVs, and Media Centre in the loungeroom (we use the media centre as a PVR).

Here's the weird thing.

When I plug the RF output from the modulator into the "B pwr" coax input on the VDU, the picture is really fuzzy on both foxtel and tv in bedroom. (see pic below)

http://www.soulshine...om/IMG_0632.JPG

When I plug the RF output from the modulator into the "A" coax input on the VDU, the picture is great, but then I can't get IR to work in the bedroom as the A coax input doesn't push IR signals. However the foxtel signal in the bedroom still works but is still a little fuzzy.

http://www.soulshine...om/IMG_0633.JPG

I'm clearly doing something wrong or it may be faulty.

Do you think it's some sort of interference? I even used another power supply into the VDU but made sure the "remote power button" switch was off. Of course when the remote power button switch is off, then no IR signal is pushed into the bedroom.

Now the picture is still blurry in the bedroom, but Windows Media Center 7 can't pick up the antenna signal from the modulator in the loungeroom. It's all too confusing! I have a Hauppage HVR-1300 analogue and DVB-T tuner. WMC7 only picks up 4 analogue channels (ABC, 7 9 and 10) but no SBS or Channel 31...and no channel 35 from the modulator.

I tested in the TV in the bedroom and the modulator must be working because I can still see the signal on channel 35 on the TV... although it's blurry.

I'd appreciate some advice if possible.

Thanks heaps

[mtv]

It's possible the RF frequency of the modulator is mixing with an off-air frequency, and/or it's levels are not matched with the antenna signals.

What's your location and where are you receiving your FTA terrestrial signals from? eg: which transmission site.

What make/model of antenna are you using and is it mounted on the roof?

[roadieface]

mtv, on May 11 2011, 04:33 PM, said:

It's possible the RF frequency of the modulator is mixing with an off-air frequency, and/or it's levels are not matched with the antenna signals.

What's your location and where are you receiving your FTA terrestrial signals from? eg: which transmission site.

What make/model of antenna are you using and is it mounted on the roof?

I've tried using a different channel on the modulator, about 3 or 4 times but no love. How can I test it out.

The strange thing now is that it's not even picking up the modulator signal at all in Windows Media Center, even though its picked up fine in the bedroom. It was working fine about 2 weeks ago. Then someone suggested powering the VDU too (but switching off the remote power) then the IR won't work. After that happened the modulation signal wouldnt go to the WMC computer.

St Kilda East, no idea where the FTA signals are coming from? Melbourne?

I don't know the model of the antenna but it's mounted on the roof. We have foxtel coming in. It was all working perfectly a while back. The fuzziness goes away when using the Mod A input, but then the IR signal won't work. I don't mind that it's fuzzy in the bedroom, as I run the foxtel cables through the wall (composite)... I just cant have it fuzzy on the windows media center as its unwatchable especially on the big screen.

[roadieface]

roadieface, on May 11 2011, 05:24 PM, said:

I've tried using a different channel on the modulator, about 3 or 4 times but no love. How can I test it out.

The strange thing now is that it's not even picking up the modulator signal at all in Windows Media Center, even though its picked up fine in the bedroom. It was working fine about 2 weeks ago. Then someone suggested powering the VDU too (but switching off the remote power) then the IR won't work. After that happened the modulation signal wouldnt go to the WMC computer.

St Kilda East, no idea where the FTA signals are coming from? Melbourne?

I don't know the model of the antenna but it's mounted on the roof. We have foxtel coming in. It was all working perfectly a while back. The fuzziness goes away when using the Mod A input, but then the IR signal won't work. I don't mind that it's fuzzy in the bedroom, as I run the foxtel cables through the wall (composite)... I just cant have it fuzzy on the windows media center as its unwatchable especially on the big screen.

Hi MTV, sorry to hassle but do you have any ideas on the above?

[bellotv]

roadieface, on May 17 2011, 09:52 AM, said:

Hi MTV, sorry to hassle but do you have any ideas on the above?

Until Col replies,this is my 2 cents.

Firstly ,the easiest way to sort this is by using a spectrum analyzer or meter to work outs whats wrong.

That's what all professional installers would use and it takes all the guess work and postulation out of it.

You may have anything wrong from faulty equipment EG modulator, Star serve, computer card to a poor connections on any of the fitted plugs,connectors or  faulty cable itself.

If you don't want to pay someone to sort it out for you then you will have to sort it out the hard way with a bit of logic and trial and error.

EG plug the modulator directly into the computer and other TV one at a time and see if they can tune into it and it is "clean"

Eliminate every lead and cable .

I see you are only using two ports of the starserve.

By-pass the starserve with a F-F joiner to test each outlet to test each cable in the house .And flyleads ???.Wall plates ??

Perhaps the starserve wasn'nt even needed and its extra gain is causing IMD issues .

Hope this helps you

BelloTV

[roadieface]

bellotv, on May 17 2011, 08:36 PM, said:

Until Col replies,this is my 2 cents.

Firstly ,the easiest way to sort this is by using a spectrum analyzer or meter to work outs whats wrong.

That's what all professional installers would use and it takes all the guess work and postulation out of it.

You may have anything wrong from faulty equipment EG modulator, Star serve, computer card to a poor connections on any of the fitted plugs,connectors or  faulty cable itself.

If you don't want to pay someone to sort it out for you then you will have to sort it out the hard way with a bit of logic and trial and error.

EG plug the modulator directly into the computer and other TV one at a time and see if they can tune into it and it is "clean"

Eliminate every lead and cable .

I see you are only using two ports of the starserve.

By-pass the starserve with a F-F joiner to test each outlet to test each cable in the house .And flyleads ???.Wall plates ??

Perhaps the starserve wasn'nt even needed and its extra gain is causing IMD issues .

Hope this helps you

BelloTV

Thanks for all your help guys. Before I start troubleshooting the signal quality I need to fix my latest problem.  The TV card (Hauppage HVR-1300) doesnt want to pick up the signal (channel 35 modulation) at all. It only picks up the 5 FTA channels. Strange. It picks them up with good quality. However, that said, the bedroom TV still picks up the antenna signal. That's what is concerning.

I'm just tempted to connect the Foxtel to the Card directly (via composite ports) although Windows Media Center can't pick up the IR device even though there is a Microsoft box connected to the PC... very strange. I'm posting on the Microsoft forums about that issue now.

My main concerns are recording Foxtel through the Media Centre, and watching Foxtel in the bedroom (including using the remote). In the next 6 months we'll be moving house so it might pay to get a AV 2.4Ghz sender/receiver box when that happens.

[roadieface]

roadieface, on May 18 2011, 09:35 AM, said:

Thanks for all your help guys. Before I start troubleshooting the signal quality I need to fix my latest problem.  The TV card (Hauppage HVR-1300) doesnt want to pick up the signal (channel 35 modulation) at all. It only picks up the 5 FTA channels. Strange. It picks them up with good quality. However, that said, the bedroom TV still picks up the antenna signal. That's what is concerning.

I'm just tempted to connect the Foxtel to the Card directly (via composite ports) although Windows Media Center can't pick up the IR device even though there is a Microsoft box connected to the PC... very strange. I'm posting on the Microsoft forums about that issue now.

My main concerns are recording Foxtel through the Media Centre, and watching Foxtel in the bedroom (including using the remote). In the next 6 months we'll be moving house so it might pay to get a AV 2.4Ghz sender/receiver box when that happens.

After quite a few hours of troubleshooting I've seem to have a successful workaround.

Okay I've got a workaround. As I had a Hauppage HVR-1300 tuner that takes composite inputs I just used them for input into the media centre. The beauty of this is I can then hook a DVB-T signal into the tuner and record both HD free to air and good quality composite foxtel. It works wonders. I tricked the Microsoft reciever into thinking it had 2 inputs (by plugging in headphone 3.5mm jacks into both plugs) then unplugged them later. We use a Logitech remote instead of a

Why didn't I think of it earlier? So the Starserve is still not working, but I can't be bothered troubleshooting. Once we move, I'll get a AV sender to send the signal to the bedroom (and the IR signal)...

I wish Foxtel could hook directly into the media centre (with all channels and guide)... the way FTA works in WMC 7 is amazing!

Thanks for all your help.

[trevagreene]

Was the picture quality issue on this ever resolved ? and if so, how ? I've got the exact same issue, and when I used port A on the VDU the picture was crystal clear, however, not much point using that as it doesn't carry the infrared signals.

[M'bozo]

trevagreene, on Nov 30 2011, 09:28 AM, said:

Was the picture quality issue on this ever resolved ? and if so, how ? I've got the exact same issue, and when I used port A on the VDU the picture was crystal clear, however, not much point using that as it doesn't carry the infrared signals.

What modulator are you using to modulate the signals?

A Clipsal one, or something else?

If it's something else, there could be power sinking occurring when plugging the modulator into port B.

Haven't come across one for about 3 years, so I'm pretty rusty on them.

[trevagreene]

M'bozo, on Nov 30 2011, 10:04 AM, said:

What modulator are you using to modulate the signals?

A Clipsal one, or something else?

If it's something else, there could be power sinking occurring when plugging the modulator into port B.

Haven't come across one for about 3 years, so I'm pretty rusty on them.

Hi, Yes, Im using the clipsal modulator.  

http://www.clipsal.c...age/81/C122.pdf

I haven't tried seperately powering the VDU as suggested above but will be doing that tonight when I get home, however, Im not that positive as Rodieface above tried that.  So, Im thinking it may be related to either the IR signals and/or the power running through that port to power the VDU.

[M'bozo]

trevagreene, on Nov 30 2011, 12:03 PM, said:

So, Im thinking it may be related to either the IR signals and/or the power running through that port to power the VDU.

Possibly.

Recently worked on a resi-linx system that looks remarkably similar to the starserve.

The power from the modulator that fed the video hub was shorted out by a new TV plugged into a previously unused outlet. Isolating the outlet fixed it.

Initially, I'd be looking to see voltage is fed from the modulator, to the starserve, and then out to the IR targets. If that's all OK, not sure where to go to next. Others may have better ideas.

[trevagreene]

M'bozo, on Nov 30 2011, 04:53 PM, said:

Possibly.

Recently worked on a resi-linx system that looks remarkably similar to the starserve.

The power from the modulator that fed the video hub was shorted out by a new TV plugged into a previously unused outlet. Isolating the outlet fixed it.

Initially, I'd be looking to see voltage is fed from the modulator, to the starserve, and then out to the IR targets. If that's all OK, not sure where to go to next. Others may have better ideas.

I just got home and turned off the remote power from the modulator to the VDU.  The picture was crystal clear.  ( VDU was still powered off ).  I then plug a seperate power supply to the VDU and the picture went fuzzy again.  So It appears that it is definetely related the that Port B/Infrared/Remote power Signal on the VDU

[M'bozo]

Unplug the external antenna (if one is connected) from the CATV/ANT port and see if the problem is still there.

[trevagreene]

M'bozo, on Nov 30 2011, 06:52 PM, said:

Unplug the external antenna (if one is connected) from the CATV/ANT port and see if the problem is still there.

did that, and problem still there.  I've spoken to a electrician who is Starserve/Cbus certified.  He thinks it may be a problem with the VDU but will come with a spare modulator and VDU to see if we can isolate the issue.  Although, I'm not 100 percent certain that that is the case as the "clear picture" I got when switching off the remote power on the Modulator is the first time since it was installed that the picture has been that clear, so I find it hard to believe that there was a problem with the VDU from day 1 ( although you never know ! )

[M'bozo]

OK, be good to find out.

Another approach would be disconnecting all outputs from the VDU, and connect them up one at a time (so only one output port is in use at a time) to see if the problem can be isolated in that way.


edit: Clarity.

Edited by M'bozo, 30 November 2011 - 06:14 PM.

[trevagreene]

Yea, I thought of that, but will wait to hear what the Sparky says when he comes out in the next week or so.  I'll report back the findings.  It was actually refreshing to speak to someone that has the same set up at home and knew exactly what I was talking about.

[M'bozo]

trevagreene, on Nov 30 2011, 07:26 PM, said:

It was actually refreshing to speak to someone that has the same set up at home and knew exactly what I was talking about.

That's exactly right.

I freely admit I was pissing in the wind & making guesses based on my almost complete lack of knowledge about starserve stuff  

Edited by M'bozo, 30 November 2011 - 07:03 PM.

[trevagreene]

ok, so spoke to the electrician and sort of pre-empted what he was going to do on Tuesday ( when he is coming ).  I found a VDU on ebay so snapped it up for $100.  Plug it all in and suprise suprise, have now a pretty decent picture, to the point where its never been as good.  The original VDU when I disconnected it I noticed it rattled ! So Im guessing during the installation something went wrong ( who knows ? ) obviously there was an issue from day 1, and it just got worse over the last month.  I'll still get the electrician to come out as he is going to bring a field strength meter, so it will be good to just get him to check everything and get the picture as best as it can be.

[extremeaudiowa]

trevagreene, on Dec 9 2011, 09:37 AM, said:

ok, so spoke to the electrician and sort of pre-empted what he was going to do on Tuesday ( when he is coming ).  I found a VDU on ebay so snapped it up for $100.  Plug it all in and suprise suprise, have now a pretty decent picture, to the point where its never been as good.  The original VDU when I disconnected it I noticed it rattled ! So Im guessing during the installation something went wrong ( who knows ? ) obviously there was an issue from day 1, and it just got worse over the last month.  I'll still get the electrician to come out as he is going to bring a field strength meter, so it will be good to just get him to check everything and get the picture as best as it can be.

Also look out in Early Jan as they are releasing a Digital Modulator to replace the 1 and 4 channel versions they currently have so you will definately have crystal clear pic.

Also i believe the Clipsal Star Serve Range is sourced from Resilinx thats why it all looks remarkably similar to the resilinx range. Also the DTV modulator looks to be a resilnx product

[trevagreene]

extremeaudiowa, on Dec 14 2011, 10:50 AM, said:

Also look out in Early Jan as they are releasing a Digital Modulator to replace the 1 and 4 channel versions they currently have so you will definately have crystal clear pic.

Interesting, I heard something similar as well.  So do you know if it would be a case of pulling out the original modulator and just plugging in the digital one ?

[M'bozo]

The resilinx digital modulator is already available: click

Note the only inputs are composite video & ASI.

I'm currently advising a tech savvy customer with resilinx/clipsal product in a distribution system in an effort to get, amongst other things, remote IR control happening. It's not a headache - yet

[Coppo67]

Just joined up today but thought I would provide info on someones old posting.

On the stareserve VDU's:
Port A : as mentioned it blocks IR  - so is only ever used for viewing cameras etc that do not require/support IR control
Port B:  used for remote powering via power injector up coax or by the Staerserve modulator.

Seeing the modulator is connected direct to the sources and the source signal is generally higher,  the modulator connections on the VDU are attentuated,
by approx 10dB.

the modulator has a gain on it so you can adjust there...  the VDU has an adjustment called Gain...but the adjustments are actually up to +5db and down to -15dB so
its more of an attenuator.

if you look to be losing 20dB through the VDU it commonly because an installer or someone else has possibly shorted the antenna cable onto the frame.  We have seen
that being clumsy whilst screwing in the antenna connections can result in this and damage the VDU.

You will also see with product supplied in the past few years that brand new it comes with a blue cap on the antenna input, this is to prevent static discharge damaging the unit during transit .

Without a field strength meter, its very hard to offer too much. So beg / borrow one so you can see what is happening,
then you just check the output of the modulator back at the wall plate like any other TV channel.

Most common failure on a Starserve system is the power supply,  but not due to product quality issues( even though they happen) .   The use of HEX crimp connectors
and installers doing a poor Hex crimp connection will be the main killer of power supplies.

what happens is the poor hex crimp will cause a grounding issue ( sometimes this will appear instantly , but in most case it can take a few years as the installation ages),
as the connection degrades, it will pull the power supply down..eventually you wil lbe getting less than 9 -10 volts and the whole system falls over,
or IR stops working, or picutre starts dropping off, etc...

Most people doing a check on the power supply will not test it in circuit.. so when they pull it out and put a multi meter on it..it looks fine as 12V.

The most common scenario is that people then just keep replacing the power supply whenever it dies and complain about the power supply due to them not
realising it is the hex crimps on the job.

Every time I have had a complaint with power supply dieing on regular basis, it has had been hex crimps used on site.   we tell the installer to redo all connections with
compression connectors and it is last I hear of it typically.

As part of this you will see that clipsal recently stopped supplying hex crimp connectors in their 30PFM and 30FFPFMS TV sockets used on Starserve.
( both of these tv sockets are pass through and support reverse channel IR)

Have been using the Starserve product for 10Yrs plus - back to the original days of channelplus modulators.

Hope this is of help to some of you