188 replies to this topic

[Johnny.Boy]

Just a question for people with SubM's

As stated before these subs can be left on, but the other day i left it on all day (nothing else was on) and when i felt the amp on the subM it was quite warm to the touch? is this normal or should it be cold when nothing else is running.

cheers

[BladeRnR]

Great pics mate - it's certainly how I envisaged it. Given you seem to have an en-clove behind the screen there; have you considered building a baffle wall and getting an acoustically transparent screen?

I can see those CATS's behind the screen myself and wouldn't be at all hard to mount.

And it was my pleasure

Cheers

Blade

[CraigusOz]

birdyblitz, on Mar 20 2011, 01:30 PM, said:

Some pictures of the new toys are posted here.

Nice.

How big is your screen?

[MACCA350]

Johnny.Boy, on Mar 20 2011, 07:42 PM, said:

Just a question for people with SubM's

As stated before these subs can be left on, but the other day i left it on all day (nothing else was on) and when i felt the amp on the subM it was quite warm to the touch? is this normal or should it be cold when nothing else is running.

cheers

That's normal Johnny.

Cheers

[minty]

BladeRnR, on Mar 20 2011, 07:18 PM, said:

Great pics mate - it's certainly how I envisaged it. Given you seem to have an en-clove behind the screen there; have you considered building a baffle wall and getting an acoustically transparent screen?

I can see those CATS's behind the screen myself and wouldn't be at all hard to mount.

And it was my pleasure

Cheers

Blade

Hey mate i couldn't possibly hide them behind a screen!   As you say though it could be done no worries, and i've put plenty of hours in thinking about it, but once i decided on the Cats i also decided i want them where you can see them plus the amount of money i've spent in the last couple of years i dont want to get rid of a perfect screen and be up for a new one. With the lights down you cannot see the center Cat at all and the L&R ones morph into the black wall behind even with the 2 side lights above on. It's cool seeing the green lights on the subs coming on and off too.

On the subs i eventually backed them right off (2 notches from off) and re-ran Auydessey and all is now perfect. Watched Harry Potter 1/2 Blood Prince on Sat night and it was just brilliant. The dynamic range and clarity of the Cats is amazing, i'm finding too that the sound seems to be improving with each session, whether the speakers are breaking in or i'm learning to appreciate the sound more or a combo i'm not sure, i couldn't be happier!

[minty]

CraigusOz, on Mar 20 2011, 07:48 PM, said:

Nice.

How big is your screen?

Thanks, screen is a 130 inch scope screen in evo3d fabric from OZTS.

[minty]

SimonNo10, on Mar 20 2011, 05:16 PM, said:

Awesome setup mate. Love the room and great pics. I'm sure your loving the system now

Thanks Simon, yes that would be an understatement, absolutely loving it!

[CraigusOz]

birdyblitz, on Mar 21 2011, 02:47 AM, said:

Thanks, screen is a 130 inch scope screen in evo3d fabric from OZTS.

Cool... they scale of the Cats and SMs always make it hard to tell.

[Ventura]

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days now, but for those of you with one SubMersive in a home theatre, could you post for me your current gain setting (from the back of your sub), your subwoofer channel setting on your receiver, and the approximate size of your theatre room?

My SubMersive's gain is set to -10dB, the receiver setting has my subwoofer channel set to -4.0 (via an SVS AS-EQ1), and my current theatre room is approximately 3.6m x 4.3m. In short, yes, I'm running mine really rather hot (more bass, more bass!), and intend on doing a full re-calibration this coming weekend.

Incidentally, I have my gain set so high because I read somewhere a while back (I think, on avs) that most found a higher gain on the sub with a lower receiver setting to typically impress a lot more than a lower sub gain with a higher receiver setting. I must admit that, in my tests in the past, I have also found this to be the case.

This all said, for those of you with an SPL, do you also calibrate the sub channel to be 2 or 3 dB's higher than the speaker channels? This is the sort of thing where it seems that some do, and some don't, and there is no right and wrong.

Thanks guys.

Edited by Ventura, 23 March 2011 - 12:03 AM.

[Super Greg]

Ventura, on Mar 23 2011, 01:02 AM, said:

...

I adjusted the sub channel and distance on the receiver according to what the as-eq1 instructed.  However, when I manually measured the system with spl meter after the as-eq1 calibration is completed, it seems that the subwoofer is about -7db lower than the other channel (which are all 75).  I had to bump up the gain on the submersive to level match with the other channel.  

PS. techinically, subwoofer should measure at about 72db on the spl meter and not 75db, as I remember from reading somewhere that the sub channel is actually about 3db less than what it says on the SPL meter  (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).  But I like running mine hot, so I just go for 75db as well on the sub (+3 hot).

Edited by Super Greg, 23 March 2011 - 09:02 AM.

[K1LL3M]

Ventura, on Mar 23 2011, 01:02 AM, said:

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days now, but for those of you with one SubMersive in a home theatre, could you post for me your current gain setting (from the back of your sub), your subwoofer channel setting on your receiver, and the approximate size of your theatre room?

My SubMersive's gain is set to -10dB, the receiver setting has my subwoofer channel set to -4.0 (via an SVS AS-EQ1), and my current theatre room is approximately 3.6m x 4.3m. In short, yes, I'm running mine really rather hot (more bass, more bass!), and intend on doing a full re-calibration this coming weekend.

Incidentally, I have my gain set so high because I read somewhere a while back (I think, on avs) that most found a higher gain on the sub with a lower receiver setting to typically impress a lot more than a lower sub gain with a higher receiver setting. I must admit that, in my tests in the past, I have also found this to be the case.

This all said, for those of you with an SPL, do you also calibrate the sub channel to be 2 or 3 dB's higher than the speaker channels? This is the sort of thing where it seems that some do, and some don't, and there is no right and wrong.

Thanks guys.

Hey Ventura,

I re-set mine up this weekend just gone to try and even out pre EQ line and to do the cal with the extended profile in place. I am going from 2 front corner located to opposing corners(front left, rear right) and still with SVS unit in a large room(7x12). I ended up with the gain on the subs about -32/-34 and the gain on the amp -0.5. I'd even out a null quite a bit and ended with a much smoother (ruler flat) final result. (will post test graphs later)

I watched a few scenes from before and was actually a little disappoint by the new cal.

Don't know that this is what you supposed to do, but I wanted to play a little and try some different things.

What I did, was using the the level check feature of the SVS unit, as I dont have a SPL metre and I figure since this is used to cal the Subs its probably better anyway, and the test tone on the AVR (after full Cal with SVS and AVR) I up'd the gain on the sub and further reduced the gain on the AVR so that it still measured the same 75dB. (Can't remember what this worked out to exactly but was around -24 and -7.5)

I then kept the level check feature running and tried the test tones DVD that came with the subs just to see. Using the 10dB reference test tone, I noted the sub measure down about 5dB on the 75dB reference with the DVD, so I up'd the gain on the AVR to get the sub back to 75dB with the DVD.

Flicking between the DVD test tones and the AVR now gives me 75dB on the DVD and 80dB on the AVR tone, so it is maybe running 3-5dB hot or speakers are running light as all other speakers using the AVR tones are @ 75dB but are about 72dB using the supplied DVD. /shrug to many measurements and not enough listening I think now.

The Final setting is maybe -24(may be closer -16 but cant check atm) and -2.5 on the AVR. I am going to run like this for a bit and see how it plays while actually watching

Cheers

Super Greg, on Mar 23 2011, 10:01 AM, said:

PS. techinically, subwoofer should measure at about 72db on the spl meter and not 75db, as I remember from reading somewhere that the sub channel is actually about 3db less than what it says on the SPL meter  (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).  But I like running mine hot, so I just go for 75db as well on the sub (+3 hot).

Interesting, like to see where you read that to follow up?

As a couch cowboy, I would be interested to hear what someone who actually knows what they are doing thinks, lol *waves @ MACCA

Edited by K1LL3M, 23 March 2011 - 09:51 AM.

[Super Greg]

K1LL3M, on Mar 23 2011, 10:42 AM, said:

Super Greg, on Mar 23 2011, 10:01 AM, said:

PS. techinically, subwoofer should measure at about 72db on the spl meter and not 75db, as I remember from reading somewhere that the sub channel is actually about 3db less than what it says on the SPL meter  (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).  But I like running mine hot, so I just go for 75db as well on the sub (+3 hot).

Interesting, like to see where you read that to follow up?

Here it is, Paul   

http://www.hometheat...html#post134782

[SimonNo10]

Well I'm running 2 submersives atm and after 3 tries running the ARC software on the Anthem D2v I got the volume trim set on the processor to "0" which is a great result. I was told by a member over on AVS that when you run 2 subs (I know your not) that you tend to aim for 72db on a SPL Meter individually then do your calibration. The first 2 tries the volume trim set by the Anthem was -6db then -4db, but my 3rd attempt i got it right on "0". I've read that you want to aim for either "0" or -3/+3 of the "0" value. I personally have never run my subs hot as even running one submersive was great but 2 is excellent. I wanted 2 so i didn't have to worry about ever clipping just one of them (you would have to try hard to do this) and just piece of mind. The only issue with running 2 for me was getting the right positions for both and that has proven difficult but after spending a few days re-arranging my equipment rack and placing both subs now along a side wall where one sounded great, the result is very positive.

As for the gain setting on the sub well that depends what reading your getting on the SPL meter and would be different for each user. Sorry for going a tad off topic.
*Update*

This is what a guy called Bob on AVS posted awhile back regarding sub calibration for Anthem Users running the internal ARC software:

"Now scroll down to either subwoofer line. Noise will be coming from the subwoofer. Leave the subwoofer line at 0dB and use the volume knob on the sub itself to adjust its output. With one sub, shoot for 75dB SPL measured just as above. With more than one sub, power one at a time and separately adjust them to produce the same output level -- a lower level since their output will add when they are played together. For 2 subs, typically you will shoot for 72dB SPL from each played by itself"

Edited by SimonNo10, 23 March 2011 - 10:45 AM.

[yorac]

Super Greg, on Mar 23 2011, 10:01 AM, said:

But I like running mine hot, so I just go for 75db as well on the sub (+3 hot).

[Ventura]

Super Greg, on Mar 23 2011, 07:01 AM, said:

I adjusted the sub channel and distance on the receiver according to what the as-eq1 instructed.  However, when I manually measured the system with spl meter after the as-eq1 calibration is completed, it seems that the subwoofer is about -7db lower than the other channel (which are all 75).  I had to bump up the gain on the submersive to level match with the other channel.  

PS. techinically, subwoofer should measure at about 72db on the spl meter and not 75db, as I remember from reading somewhere that the sub channel is actually about 3db less than what it says on the SPL meter  (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).  But I like running mine hot, so I just go for 75db as well on the sub (+3 hot).

Thanks Greg. I actually had the same problem with my SubMersive's output appearing extremely low after running a full AS-EQ1 calibration. I'd bumped mine up quite heavily after doing that.

That's really interesting about the sub channel only really needing to be 72dB, I wasn't aware of that. I'm pretty sure I'd have had mine closer to 80dB, as I thought 75dB would be at normal, and then higher than that would be running it hot.

I've dropped my gain setting on the back of the SubMersive down to -16, and calibrated the channel to -4.0 on my Onkyo receiver to have it hit aroundabout 74dB on the SPL. I've gotten used to far too much bass, which I very much enjoy (I'll admit), but I don't want to risk damaging my precious subwoofer like the guy in that thread you linked. I'm just going to have to get used to it as it was intended.

K1LL3M, on Mar 23 2011, 07:42 AM, said:

Hey Ventura,

I re-set mine up this weekend just gone to try and even out pre EQ line and to do the cal with the extended profile in place. I am going from 2 front corner located to opposing corners(front left, rear right) and still with SVS unit in a large room(7x12). I ended up with the gain on the subs about -32/-34 and the gain on the amp -0.5. I'd even out a null quite a bit and ended with a much smoother (ruler flat) final result. (will post test graphs later)

I watched a few scenes from before and was actually a little disappoint by the new cal.

...

The Final setting is maybe -24(may be closer -16 but cant check atm) and -2.5 on the AVR. I am going to run like this for a bit and see how it plays while actually watching

I reckon you'll find -16, or even -24, a lot more enjoyable than it being at around -32 or -34. Anything approaching -30 and as far as I'm concerned, much of the potential capability that a sub like the SubMersive has to offer will be going to waste.

[Drizt]

I have found SPL meters hard to use for level matching when it come to subs when using the built in warble tones of AVR's.  You guys should really download REW and utilize your SPL meters (that is all that is required in the bass regions - make sure to use the calibration files from hometheatreshack to compensate for the low end roll off.  REW will give you a much better idea of what is going on.

[Super Greg]

Hmmmm...... where's everyone?  Was hoping for influx of reviews  

[Drizt]

Super Greg, on Apr 4 2011, 02:16 PM, said:

Hmmmm...... where's everyone?  Was hoping for influx of reviews  

I think it is caused by the fact that posts in the reviews section do not show up in the 'View New Posts' functionality -> http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=93568

[yorac]

Got a new test disc for your subs here guys...........

[SimonNo10]

Quote

Got a new test disc for your subs here guys

+100. Watched this last night (2 submersives) and boy have they bumped up the bass from the dvd on this one. Potent is the first word that comes to mind on this and just downright scary at times. I had forgotten some of the scenes where bass on the dvd was awesome, well the BD takes things to a new level. The stomping  of the robot at the end trying to squash Mr Incredible had me jumping a few times but for me the highlight  has to be the jungle scene with Dash. The flying machines with the spinning blades flying over and chasing Dash is some of the best surround I've heard thus far and that's after watching Tron Legacy last weekend. PQ is stunning as well but if you want to demo a scene and show off your system go to the jungle battle.

Just an awesome Blu-ray.

Edited by SimonNo10, 21 April 2011 - 09:37 AM.

[Curious]

Johnny.Boy, on Mar 15 2011, 01:04 PM, said:

...
Then moved onto Flight of the phoenix crash scene – Was good but not mind blowing like I would have expected. Then tried Master and commander cannon fight – again not mind blowing and felt it somewhat underwhelming. The bass was there but was not pronounced. Both these were are relatively high volumes at about -10.

Reminds me a of a mate who lucked into purchasing a monster sub from a small town theatre that had closed down, this thing was HUGE..21 inch from memory (back in those days a sub that size was practically unheard of) so we set the thing up in his average sized lounge room and start watching samples on laser-disc (yes was quite a long time back) and we were a fair bit underwhelmed by the lack of 'punch' a sub of this size would be expected provide...up goes the volume, then up again, then we push it past reference and our ears are nearly bleeding from the SPLs until I figure I'll see what's going on outside the room (in this case the front of the street) well, by the time I get across the road to the neighbours place I can hear the sub in all it's full glory - lucky the neighbours were good friends and used to the noise factor from his movies/parties otherwise there could have been some serious complaints made to council!

Sufice to say he has moved into a much bigger house and the movie room is a lot larger so the sub now integrates with the room a lot better :-) actually he ended up putting it at the rear behind the seating position and turned the level down a fair bit so now it provides a good wallop in the back at the right moment during a film  

This was the first inkling for me that 'bigger is not always better' (a concept I've struggled to come to terms with for years in HT purchasing) followed closely by 'louder is not always better either', understanding the concept of air being moved in a room and what is the most efficient way to move it succesfully is quite a technical thing and best served by asking experts/gurus for help IMHO  

I see now the newer generations of purchasers heading into GTGs and cranking the volumes to monster levels all grinning and excited (just as we did not too many years ago) and realise that this is an important part of the experience and learning process - but I never forget the wonderful feeling of sitting in a room that has (by design or accident) come together musically in such a way that you just don't want to leave, for me that is the holy grail now - having a well designed room and good quality equipment to fill it with delicious sounds that stir my emotions for both movies and music  

Cheers,

Curious

[:)]

Curious, on Apr 22 2011, 11:43 AM, said:

Reminds me a of a mate who lucked into purchasing a monster sub from a small town theatre that had closed down, this thing was HUGE..21 inch from memory (back in those days a sub that size was practically unheard of) so we set the thing up in his average sized lounge room and start watching samples on laser-disc (yes was quite a long time back) and we were a fair bit underwhelmed by the lack of 'punch' a sub of this size would be expected provide...up goes the volume, then up again, then we push it past reference and our ears are nearly bleeding from the SPLs until I figure I'll see what's going on outside the room (in this case the front of the street) well, by the time I get across the road to the neighbours place I can hear the sub in all it's full glory - lucky the neighbours were good friends and used to the noise factor from his movies/parties otherwise there could have been some serious complaints made to council!

Sufice to say he has moved into a much bigger house and the movie room is a lot larger so the sub now integrates with the room a lot better :-) actually he ended up putting it at the rear behind the seating position and turned the level down a fair bit so now it provides a good wallop in the back at the right moment during a film  

This was the first inkling for me that 'bigger is not always better' (a concept I've struggled to come to terms with for years in HT purchasing) followed closely by 'louder is not always better either', understanding the concept of air being moved in a room and what is the most efficient way to move it succesfully is quite a technical thing and best served by asking experts/gurus for help IMHO  

I see now the newer generations of purchasers heading into GTGs and cranking the volumes to monster levels all grinning and excited (just as we did not too many years ago) and realise that this is an important part of the experience and learning process - but I never forget the wonderful feeling of sitting in a room that has (by design or accident) come together musically in such a way that you just don't want to leave, for me that is the holy grail now - having a well designed room and good quality equipment to fill it with delicious sounds that stir my emotions for both movies and music  

Cheers,

Curious

OMG curious thats akin to sacrilege around here ! the "big bad sub nazi's" and the "play it loud ok" gang gonna come get ya  

seriously though a good example there and all valid points, something I try re iterate as much as I can though usually to howls of protest and likely on deaf ears (haha). defintely rather than the biggest and loudest, picking something appropriate for best sound quality result I try suggest far more important. and atleast worth considering the options to pick something that suitable rather than just jump blindly in some direction.

but yeah as you say perhaps just a rite of passage...and though I or you might make the suggestion, people am sure make their own minds up one way or the other

[wilsact]

Hmmm I logged in looking forward to some new reviews, but we seem to be off elsewhere at present.

Is this still the review thread?  I guess it was only a matter of time before this headed the same way as most owner/review threads.  

Usually those fun loving 'pot stirring' type responsible, and non owners.  In fact most of the time it's people who haven't even heard the gear in question that like to help this along.

Also just curious why are we concentrating on one comment in one particular setup, and ignoring anything others have said??

Isn't a fair an unbiased view made by looking at the whole picture-

I guess some would like to take pleasure in people's perceived failure with purchases like this, hence they chase any hint of a bad comment.

(Normally the same people that drag out fanboi comments as soon as something good is said).

Did all buyers here jump 'blindly' into this purchase?  I know many (like me) did much research, and many demo'd them in person.



I hope to post a review of my two submersives shortly for anyone still interested;)  For the record so far I am blown away by them, and they have much exceeded my expectations.

Edited by wilsact, 22 April 2011 - 06:38 PM.

[Drizt]

:), on Apr 22 2011, 04:06 PM, said:

OMG curious thats akin to sacrilege around here ! the "big bad sub nazi's" and the "play it loud ok" gang gonna come get ya  

wilsact, on Apr 22 2011, 05:54 PM, said:

Hmmm I logged in looking forward to some new reviews, but we seem to be off elsewhere at present.

Is this still the review thread?  I guess it was only a matter of time before this headed the same way as most owner/review threads.  

Usually those fun loving 'pot stirring' type responsible, and non owners.  In fact most of the time it's people who haven't even heard the gear in question that like to help this along.

Also just curious why are we concentrating on one comment in one particular setup, and ignoring anything others have said??

Isn't a fair an unbiased view made by looking at the whole picture-

I guess some would like to take pleasure in people's perceived failure with purchases like this, hence they chase any hint of a bad comment.

(Normally the same people that drag out fanboi comments as soon as something good is said).

Did all buyers here jump 'blindly' into this purchase?  I know many (like me) did much research, and many demo'd them in person.



I hope to post a review of my two submersives shortly for anyone still interested;)  For the record so far I am blown away by them, and they have much exceeded my expectations.

I look forward to reading your review.   And I do feel for you guys when the Mr. negativities jumps in

I have not read a negative review yet on the Submersives so there must be something to them.  So don't worry about the 'big is bad' party poopers   Just enjoy your high quality subs that have all the headroom your ever likely to need.  If you do need more headroom, add another couple big subs

On a serious note, enjoy your great subs guys.  To everyone who did buy subs in the GB please take the time to write up your reviews (with all the good and bad points).

[smeggett]

Well, for what it's worth I've just watched 'Unstoppable' here and that has made me very glad of my Submersive purchase! Same settings as detailed previously and it balances just nicely with the rest of the set up. I can only guess the reason for few reviews is that we're all too busy watching movies!  

Edited by smeggett, 22 April 2011 - 11:51 PM.