130 replies to this topic

[ajm]

(_*_), on Feb 23 2011, 10:51 AM, said:

Ohhhh.....

Nothing personal!! Just referring to the farts being rancid, not you!

[gone_bush]

mello yello II, on Feb 23 2011, 10:43 AM, said:

you mean the UN ?  

OK gb , apologies if they arent your intentions...but you did admit you like taking the piss dont you  

Apology accepted, thank you.

Yes, I do like taking the p1ss, but that's just me. I did so in the BT thread a couple of times because, IMHO, people were going off the rails and taking the whole thing far, far too seriously and the "discussion" was getting personal. My intent was simply to inject a little humour. If that upsets people then I am sorry for that. But you'd have to have a pretty thin skin to get upset with the comments I made in that thread.

For the record: I believe that it is possible that things like power cords can make a difference. But I cannot be bothered to conduct such experiments. Other may be able to pick holes in my set-up as I'm the first to admit that it is not the best. But it is what I have and it is the best that I could afford at the time I purchased each component. And, most importantly, I'm happy with the sound.

[Gutty]

ajm, on Feb 23 2011, 11:00 AM, said:

Nothing personal!! Just referring to the farts being rancid, not you!

Mine smell like roses

---------------

Yep, that's right mello, my sh!t don't stink either !

-------------

I'll let all you serious folk get back to.... well, being serious, i guess... *wavey*

Edited by (_*_), 23 February 2011 - 10:19 AM.

[bassett]

ajm, on Feb 23 2011, 11:00 AM, said:

Nothing personal!! Just referring to the farts being rancid,

Just perhaps someone with an X's in his name might like to do a "blind test" on Farts,

Just to prove to everyone that "A" he is in fact capable of  performing such a task
and  "B" to prove or dispel the fact they may or may-not be rancid

[DarrenW]

bassett, on Feb 23 2011, 12:19 PM, said:

Just perhaps someone with an X's in his name might like to do a "blind test" on Farts,

Just to prove to everyone that "A" he is in fact capable of  performing such a task
and  "B" to prove or dispel the fact they may or may-not be rancid

I'm sure he/she would rather someone else do it for them...........

[ajm]

bassett, on Feb 23 2011, 12:19 PM, said:

Just perhaps someone with an X's in his name might like to do a "blind test" on Farts,

Just to prove to everyone that "A" he is in fact capable of  performing such a task
and  "B" to prove or dispel the fact they may or may-not be rancid

No doubt there's someone somewhere selling cans of audiophile grade, purified, air that need to be released into the room before any serious, audiophile, listening takes place.

No doubt someone somewhere has bought some.

No doubt they'll swear it makes a "night and day" difference.

[gone_bush]

ajm, on Feb 23 2011, 01:16 PM, said:

No doubt there's someone somewhere selling cans of audiophile grade, purified, air that need to be released into the room before any serious, audiophile, listening takes place.

No doubt someone somewhere has bought some.

No doubt they'll swear it makes a "night and day" difference.

A tad provocative but, in the current climate, bloody funny!

[Drizt]

gone_bush, on Feb 23 2011, 01:51 PM, said:

A tad provocative but, in the current climate, bloody funny!

I had a chuckle as well.   Audiophiles definitely sweat the small stuff and sometimes lose sight of areas that do make big night and day differences (Speakers, Room, Acoustic Treatments, Speaker/Listening position etc).

[ozcal]

Seen as most of us are on the hunt for good sound I think that makes us all audiophiles.
I would hazard a guess that most audiophiles will have taken great care with all the stuff you mention D , with the possible exception of room treatments.
As for sweating the small stuff , well! I call that dotting the i's and crossing the t's and feel that this is something that everyone should be taking care of to make sure they can wring the last few percent of performance out of their system.
G

Edited by So long and thanks for the, 23 February 2011 - 01:11 PM.

[ajm]

So long and thanks for the, on Feb 23 2011, 02:11 PM, said:

Seen as most of us are on the hunt for good sound I think that makes us all audiophiles.
I would hazard a guess that most audiophiles will have taken great care with all the stuff you mention D , with the possible exception of room treatments.
As for sweating the small stuff , well! I call that dotting the i's and crossing the t's and feel that this is something that everyone should be taking care of to make sure they can wring the last few percent of performance out of their system.
G

I don't mean to use the word "audiophile" in the perjorative sense but you have to admit, you can make the craziest nonsense appeal to some sections just by adding the word "audiophile" into the description.

[Drizt]

All true mate.  But.... I feel that the more traditional audiophile starts sweating the small stuff before they get the big stuff sorted.  It is my observation that not many of the traditional audiophiles would use room measurements to help them diagnose room related issues and then use acoustic treatments (physical and/or EQ) to fix those issues.  If one is looking to make big differences, this is where they should be looking.  Move on to the small stuff after this has been done.  

  

So long and thanks for the, on Feb 23 2011, 02:11 PM, said:

Seen as most of us are on the hunt for good sound I think that makes us all audiophiles.
I would hazard a guess that most audiophiles will have taken great care with all the stuff you mention D , with the possible exception of room treatments.
As for sweating the small stuff , well! I call that dotting the i's and crossing the t's and feel that this is something that everyone should be taking care of to make sure they can wring the last few percent of performance out of their system.
G

Edited by Drizt, 23 February 2011 - 01:34 PM.

[:)]

So long and thanks for the, on Feb 23 2011, 02:11 PM, said:

Seen as most of us are on the hunt for good sound I think that makes us all audiophiles.
I would hazard a guess that most audiophiles will have taken great care with all the stuff you mention D , with the possible exception of room treatments.
As for sweating the small stuff , well! I call that dotting the i's and crossing the t's and feel that this is something that everyone should be taking care of to make sure they can wring the last few percent of performance out of their system.
G

Some good points Gordon. There's no harm in looking for gains no matter where they are in the journey. And these gains will be no doubt of various importance and different priorities to different people given their context.

http://en.m.wikipedi...Redirected=true

Above a good definition of the term audiophile as well. Without the negative connotations and stereotyping usually involved. Dont see anything wrong there personally or calling for ridicule. But personally am not quite as commited to the pursuit as quite defined. So see myself more as an enthusiast. My love and focus tends to be more on end result and music with system more means to an end. Other possibly more commited and constantly changing around their gear and trying all sorts of new stuff all the time. So yeah can hazzard a guess most of us pretty different in our pursuit of things...

[ozcal]

Absolutely AJ. If I see the word audiophile used as a marketing tool it does raise my level of sceptisism

[myrantz]

MLXXX, on Feb 23 2011, 02:07 AM, said:

I made but had to discard recordings of the ghetto blaster - very poor sound, too different to the sound from the blu-ray player.

I then decided to use an old Denon 5-disc CD player and compare it with a current model Panasonic Blu-ray player.

I made 44.1KHz/24bit recordings of track 1 of a CD with the line input of an Asus Xonar Essence ST card on a pc running ubuntu.

How old is old? Do you see the AL24 logo on the Denon multidisc player? Do you know if any of these 2 upsample the final wave form to 192kHz?

Edit: Forgot to say reason I ask is becoz 44.1kHz may not be enough and thus may not work. Need to know model of your Panasonic and Denon to confirm..

Edited by treblid, 23 February 2011 - 02:14 PM.

[myrantz]

:), on Feb 23 2011, 11:32 AM, said:

Some good points Gordon. There's no harm in looking for gains no matter where they are in the journey. And these gains will be no doubt of various importance and different priorities to different people given their context.

Micro/Macro; Yin/Yang. Can't have one without the other.   Balance..

So long and thanks for the, on Feb 23 2011, 11:50 AM, said:

Absolutely AJ. If I see the word audiophile used as a marketing tool it does raise my level of sceptisism

When did audiophile become a bad word?    I'm not an audiophile atm, but sure hope I'd be one in the future..

[ajm]

treblid, on Feb 23 2011, 03:05 PM, said:

When did audiophile become a bad word?

When some marketing boffin coined the term "audiophile grade" to describe a prettier looking product.

[myrantz]

ajm, on Feb 23 2011, 12:13 PM, said:

When some marketing boffin coined the term "audiophile grade" to describe a prettier looking product.

When as in date... When did the non-audiophile marketers step in to pollute the word?

[ajm]

treblid, on Feb 23 2011, 03:24 PM, said:

When as in date... When did the non-audiophile marketers step in to pollute the word?

What makes you think the marketers aren't also audiophiles?

[myrantz]

ajm, on Feb 23 2011, 12:13 PM, said:

When some marketing boffin coined the term "audiophile grade" to describe a prettier looking product.

ajm, on Feb 23 2011, 12:33 PM, said:

What makes you think the marketers aren't also audiophiles?

Using the definition of audiophile given above... That an audiophile is after "high-quality audio reproduction ". If marketers are audiophiles, their reference to "audiophile grade" = "high quality audio reproduction" and what not.. Not just a prettier looking product... The two paragraphs above you made are a contradiction to me.

I asked since when is a prettier looking dressed up product consider "audiophile grade".. i.e. since when did "audiophile grade" becomes "form over function" (otherwise known as snake oil)...

Definitely not monster, while insanely overpriced, they do have a bit of function (e.g. look at the eye pattern test results of their HDMI cables)..

[ajm]

treblid, on Feb 23 2011, 03:44 PM, said:

Using the definition of audiophile given above... That an audiophile is after "high-quality audio reproduction ". If marketers are audiophiles, their reference to "audiophile grade" = "high quality audio reproduction" and what not.. Not just a prettier looking product... The two paragraphs above you made are a contradiction to me.

I asked since when is a prettier looking dressed up product consider "audiophile grade".. i.e. since when did "audiophile grade" becomes "form over function" (otherwise known as snake oil)...

Definitely not monster, while insanely overpriced, they do have a bit of function (e.g. look at the eye pattern test results of their HDMI cables)..

Hoped I wouldn't need to spell it out for you but here goes - maybe there are audiophiles who'll believe any old crap, even the crap they invent.

[myrantz]

ajm, on Feb 23 2011, 01:13 PM, said:

Hoped I wouldn't need to spell it out for you but here goes - maybe there are audiophiles who'll believe any old crap, even the crap they invent.

What crap? Invent what? What are you talking about?

[ajm]

treblid, on Feb 23 2011, 04:18 PM, said:

What crap? Invent what? What are you talking about?

Never mind.

[MLXXX]

As requested, I am providing some  uploads, to get the ball rolling. These are not of different power cords, but of different CD players.  

The music is the English Chamber Orchestra with maestro Nigel Kennedy violinist, playing Vivaldi's Four Seasons Presto movement "Summer"; track 1 of the EMI CD titled Classic Kennedy, 1999.

The following files are of approx 10 seconds' duration each, in 44.1KHz 16 bit wav format, of the same passage of music reproduced on separate occasions:-

Device A - take 1
Device A - take 2 (inverted)
Device B - take 1
Device B - take 2 (inverted)
Note: you may need to save the file before being able to listen to it.

The files have been level matched and time aligned. There's an initial period of silence, and fade in. And a fade out at the end. The free wave editing software, Audacity, was used to work on the four files simultaneously to ensure consistency when editing.

A good way to compare the files is to load them into Audacity and use the solo and mute buttons whilst using "loop play".  Another way is with foobar2000 and its optional ABX comparison function.

Alternatively other software players will work, as the files are in standard CD wav format. The files could be burned to a CD, for playing on a modern CD player.

If anyone wishes to express an opinion on which device is A and which is B, they are welcome to have a go. (I can reveal the answer in a few days from now.) The two devices were as follows:

1.  An old Denon 5 disc CD player,  DCM-370, circa 2001.
2. A 2010 Panasonic 3D Blu-ray player, DMP-BDT300.

The analogue outputs were recorded with an Asus Xonar Essence ST sound card.

_____

Anyone wishing to upload power cord comparison files may find it convenient to use the thread I've opened in the attachments part of the forum. It's called Captures Of Audiophile Device Output, Short extracts for technical assessment and can be found here.

Edited by MLXXX, 07 March 2011 - 09:15 PM.

[MLXXX]

mello yello II, on Feb 23 2011, 08:43 AM, said:

if anyone has any objections to the principles or the assertions made regarding power cords I , II and III please you are welcome to state why, where and if at all possible, respectfully  

its an open forum and everyone is eager to hear the reasons and pros and cons

some have been already heard, some are unmoveable in their opinions, a lot of people remain silent and are eager to learn. There seems to be still a lot to learn, or maybe nothing to be gained.

...whatever the outcome, at least we explore, rationalise, experiment, discuss and hopefuly draw conclusions.



...its how Young Albert Einstein split the beer atom and was able to put the bubbles back into beer

Thanks mello.

treblid, on Feb 23 2011, 02:01 PM, said:

How old is old? Do you see the AL24 logo on the Denon multidisc player? Do you know if any of these 2 upsample the final wave form to 192kHz?

Edit: Forgot to say reason I ask is becoz 44.1kHz may not be enough and thus may not work. Need to know model of your Panasonic and Denon to confirm..

I've now given details of the devices at post #98. The Denon is about 10 years old.

You may have been thinking I was going to use the digital outputs of the players, whereas I used their analogue outputs.  

I note that in creating ('reconstructing') analogue waveforms from the source 44.1KHz sample rate of the CD, the players would have used at least 8 times oversampling.*

_________________

* Oversampling was employed quite early in the manufacture of DACs for CD players, and after a few years, 8 times oversampling became fairly standard. Similarly ADCs have used the technique for a very long time. The advantage of oversampling is that the audio filtering necessary to prevent aliasing can be done predominantly in the digital domain, rather than with complex networks of resistors, capacitors and/or chokes.

[Gutty]

Well you can clearly see in Audacity that the files are different. Listening through my work/office stereo,(the hardly audiophile TDK NX-03 hooked up to the analogue out of my PC) they are almost indistinguishable, if at all. You'd really have to listen hard(or have golden ears ) to pick them repeatedly in a blind test. I can't ! So far i've picked correct 2 out of 3 times. Will be interested to have a listen on my system at home tonight and see if they're easier/possible to pick.

Having a mute button on my keyboard makes this dead easy. Shrink/hide the Audacity window, hit mute and let it loop for a few minutes, without looking at Audacity un-mute then see if i can pick the tracks...

Have never played a CD(or hooked up the analogue connections) on my DMP-BDT300 so have no idea of it's capabilities. Nor have i any experience with the Denon CDP.

My guess is that A is the Denon CDP and B is the Pana BDP...

I guess i'll now apologise for my previous postings in this thread, it's not such a bad idea after all. And yes, i reckon i'd be interested if someone could supply similar files output from the same CDP/DAC etc but with different power cords.

Edited by (_*_), 24 February 2011 - 07:20 AM.