114 replies to this topic

[bassett]

Jutta, on Dec 14 2010, 09:03 AM, said:

Bassett - you obviously don't like the gear, how about leaving at that!

No that's not correct,  How can anyone pass judgement on something without hearing it.  I simply asked for an opinion
from people that have imported the product.  But when you haven't heard an Amp, how can you possibly tell if it will suit
your system.  So you gamble on it's performance.

As for the price.  There is a lot of stuff coming out of China at the moment,  which again is good, bad or plain ugly.  But
the  way you keep down costs is mass production. And the Chinese have refined it into an Art form.  I once watched a short
film clip on there Speaker production.  Scary would be a good way to describe it.

Chainsaws are a good example,  A large Stihl will cost you over two grand new.  These things are almost an exact copy,

http://cgi.ebay.com....#ht_6922wt_1106

The price is $129 delivered, and I've flogged the thing for month and it doesn't  stop for anything.  I also bought a spare Carlton
chain for twenty bucks.  But the chain on the saws had the file over it once,  And this thing will eat 15inch hardwood logs.

So I have no doubts about the quality of cheap Chinese imports.

Jutta, on Dec 14 2010, 09:03 AM, said:

delivery time is 5 days DOOR TO DOOR.

Now that I will dispute,  It might be that in the Capital Cities,  The bush is another story,  And when you have to rely on a
contractor, for everything. Delivery is not  guaranteed. A weeks wait from Sydney is quite normal.  Also freight costs have
a lot to do with it.  And you pay through the nose for Priority delivery

But the test for Emotiva will come with time, And if there's a load of gear on E-bay, that that will answer all the questions about the product.

Jutta, on Dec 14 2010, 09:03 AM, said:

The OP was close enough for the troll horn to come out I think.

That is unfair, I thought better of you.

[davep]

bassett, on Dec 14 2010, 12:14 PM, said:

No that's not correct,  How can anyone pass judgement on something without hearing it.  I simply asked for an opinion
from people that have imported the product.  But when you haven't heard an Amp, how can you possibly tell if it will suit
your system.  So you gamble on it's performance.

Why not read the 3 or so existing, extensive threads on Emotiva products here?  Or read the robust discussions that go on in the Emotiva forums themselves?  There are plenty of user reviews available for those willing to spend an hour or so to sit down and spend the time to read them.

[myrantz]

bassett, on Dec 14 2010, 09:14 AM, said:

So I have no doubts about the quality of cheap Chinese imports.

Using brand as a marketing tool is really new to the Chinese it seems, unlike western countries who has done it for years, e.g. Coke, McDonalds etc..

If China don't implode, given enough time odds are they will be even bigger than Japan. Their yuan is low against other world currencies and the typical standard of living is really really low. These are advantages to be exploited and money to be made...

Things not made from China seem expensive because they are inflated to factor in advertising costs, importer cuts, master franchisee commssion, etc. Emotiva is direct from factory to buyer, basically the same strategy Kogan is doing. And what is pissing Harvey off..

bassett, on Dec 14 2010, 09:14 AM, said:

But the test for Emotiva will come with time, And if there's a load of gear on E-bay, that that will answer all the questions about the product.

The user base for Emotiva is still small compared to the general population, and as a extension even fewer sellers... At the buying price most will probably give it to their parents or friends rather than the hassle to sell 'em and recover the costs..

It's really a different kind of market (one which I like personally)...

[broke]

treblid, on Dec 14 2010, 09:58 AM, said:

If China don't implode, given enough time odds are they will be even bigger than Japan. Their yuan is low against other world currencies and the typical standard of living is really really low. These are advantages to be exploited and money to be made...

The bubble will burst in China, as the minimum wage has risen 30% over the last 18 months, this has a significant bearing on the final cost to the consumer. The Yuan is closely linked to the USD and will only be a matter of time before it a lot stronger in the global market.
I was doing a work factory tour in Taiwan (more expensive to manufacture in than China) recently and they were explaining that the previous school of thought that manufacturing in Guanzhou is the the height of cost effectiveness is rapidly diminishing. China is catching up rapidly to the rest of the world and ergo their standard of living. India will be the next hub of world manufacturing.

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

bassett, on Dec 14 2010, 12:14 PM, said:

But the test for Emotiva will come with time, And if there's a load of gear on E-bay, that that will answer all the questions about the product.

My feeling is that the expectations for everyone are set by the price they are paying and thats why peope will accept the sound of a $700-1000 Emotiva amp for what it is and not even really compare it to an Elektra, Arcam, NAD, etc. The reality is they have probably never had the budget to even look into these and know what the comparison in sound is.

Again if you look at most of the people that have bought an EMO amp they are looking to improve the sound of thier AVR first and foremost as apposed to going down the road of a dedicated pre and power combination costs 3 times the price and the EMO gear from what experiences have been shared here does this very well.

This is where I sit, I have not heard higher end power amps costing anywhere from $3K up because to the most part if I do, I will want them and in reality I cannot afford them so what's the point!

In some point in time I will be going down the EMO path without having heard them but thats the risk you take, one thing I do know is that if I change my mind after hearing them I can unload them without too much of a loss of $$$.

[myrantz]

broke, on Dec 14 2010, 10:15 AM, said:

The bubble will burst in China, as the minimum wage has risen 30% over the last 18 months, this has a significant bearing on the final cost to the consumer.

But the wage is still low (do they have a minimum wage? I know HK has it, just not so sure about China).. But 30% of very little is still very little... There still seems to be a lot of business potential in Guangzhou (prob Shenzhen is out as it's getting too expensive, but wondering what about nearby areas?)..

broke, on Dec 14 2010, 10:15 AM, said:

The Yuan is closely linked to the USD and will only be a matter of time before it a lot stronger in the global market.

That could happen too..

broke, on Dec 14 2010, 10:15 AM, said:

I was doing a work factory tour in Taiwan (more expensive to manufacture in than China) recently and they were explaining that the previous school of thought that manufacturing in Guanzhou is the the height of cost effectiveness is rapidly diminishing. China is catching up rapidly to the rest of the world and ergo their standard of living. India will be the next hub of world manufacturing.

Of coz I'm speculating here.. But there's a chance that China will be like Japan, and India will be like China....

[Jutta]

bassett, on Dec 14 2010, 12:14 PM, said:

Jutta said:

delivery time is 5 days DOOR TO DOOR.

Now that I will dispute,  It might be that in the Capital Cities,  The bush is another story,  And when you have to rely on a
contractor, for everything. Delivery is not  guaranteed. A weeks wait from Sydney is quite normal.  Also freight costs have
a lot to do with it.  And you pay through the nose for Priority delivery

But the test for Emotiva will come with time, And if there's a load of gear on E-bay, that that will answer all the questions about the product.



That is unfair, I thought better of you.

Two shipments to TAS (which is the sticks when it comes to freight - 5 days both times)
Emotiva do not use priority, Only FedEx ECONOMY - and yes it took 5 days which surprised me too.

Emotiva search on Ebay (both AU and USA) - result; one set of interconectors between the two.

And how long will it be for 'the time to come'? They have been around for quite a numbers of years already.

Edited by Jutta, 14 December 2010 - 12:41 PM.

[Autocrat]

I had a couple of reasons to test the waters. First, I moved some time ago to an Elektra for power, and was looking to get something that could decode HD audio. Second, while we get fleeced big time by the distributors of electrical equipment, the price of pre/pros in Australia is just frigging outrageous.  Emotiva is not hugely cheaoer than, say Onkyo - in the US that is. When you factor in the exchange rate, the price difference here is huge. If I went for one of the more established brands, I would know I'd just been ripped off, and who would go ahead knowing that?

[Jutta]

I'm going to add my last comment.

I have a YAM 1800 which I wouldn't call a bad AVR.
Adding the XPA-5 brought my system to life, a huge improvement in AQ.

Adding the 2 ch setup (ERC/USP) was a massive improvement over my existing CD playback thru BD-35 -> AVR but that was to be expected, however much greater than I had anticipated.

So to answer the OP question I'd say it's not junk in a fancy box and awesome value for money. That is the key for me.
If I could afford it I'd have Seaton Catalysts and wouldn't even be thinking about Power Amps but for me they bring me a whole lot of quality sound for my budget.

[frozenpod]

Thread is head way off topic but China did out sell more than Japan last year for the first time in relevant history. China is the new Japan not only are they producing goods cheaply they are also doing there own development work and India is well on the way of becoming the new China.

[wilsact]

Jutta, on Dec 14 2010, 01:48 PM, said:

I'm going to add my last comment.

I have a YAM 1800 which I wouldn't call a bad AVR.
Adding the XPA-5 brought my system to life, a huge improvement in AQ.

Adding the 2 ch setup (ERC/USP) was a massive improvement over my existing CD playback thru BD-35 -> AVR but that was to be expected, however much greater than I had anticipated.

So to answer the OP question I'd say it's not junk in a fancy box and awesome value for money. That is the key for me.
If I could afford it I'd have Seaton Catalysts and wouldn't even be thinking about Power Amps but for me they bring me a whole lot of quality sound for my budget.

Well said.

I went from a Pioneer SC-LX81 which is also highly regarded with AQ, and was a fairly expensive av receiver (for me) at the time.  My setup of 3 x UPA-1's, and UPA-5 surrounds and other emotiva gear) is a BIG improvement in MY humble

setup.

I can only speak from my experience, and from what I have heard.  Also emotiva's service and reliability has put many far more expensive brands to shame during my time owning the brand.

I have also heard some other prepro amp systems from NAD and Onkyo, and whilst they were not using the same speakers/sources as me (so hence highly subjective) the Emotiva gear

to my ears is just awesome for the money, and punching far above its weight and price.  I would also love a full seaton setup funds permitting, but sure there would also be those who would be critical as its not one of the big brand names

and only internet direct order.

Really the problem here is people are trying to rubbish a brand because it does not match up to items costing 5, 10 or 20 times more, and pointing to things on the website, which are false and not what is actually there!  

Why not look at things even costing double out of a little fairness?  


For those that can afford handbuilt and tuned amplifiers, $1000 bottles of wine, and porsches well done to you.  For those that think emotiva gear is junk in a fancy box, I strongly disagree.  Each to their own.  

I just prefer if a topic is started (when there is already well established topics running about the same thing), they remain accurate and fair.  As I pointed out earlier there were a number of errors in the original post, which

isn't fair.  If you are seriously interested in learning about a brand, then why start with throwing mud and being critical from the outset unless you are purely far more interested in 'poking the fire' than really being interested.  You only have

to look at the owners thread with its many pages to see that a number of DTV froum members own this gear!  If labelled a fan boi for defending or saying you like emotiva gear, I will wear it.  Not an insult to me-

This should be the same no matter what brand.  Disappointing in the end.

The original poster says in one breath he wants to give the fire a bloody good poke, then plays innocent saying he just wants to learn about emotiva despite ignoring the already well established owners thread, and ignoring the incorrect claims in his original post.  

Read the topic headline for starters, and then make up your own mind about the motive of this whole thread.  Says it all really.  Fire poked, time to let it go out-

cheers

Edited by wilsact, 15 December 2010 - 09:27 AM.

[frozenpod]

Looks to me as though you are more concerned about made in china equal crap amp comments than anyone else in this thread including those who are expressing concerns which appear to me about the price and quality of the item (given the exceptional good price these amps are) and they don't really care where it is made.

I think you are going a little over the top trying to defend your own gear particularly given the narky comments made in that post. Re affording $1000 bottle of wine, Porsche ect sorry mate that is, how should I put this PATHETIC.

The problem with reviews, manufactures claims and internet BS is the truth is often lost tyres and audio gear suffer the exact same fait in this regard time and time again.

Those who could afford a more expensive amp might choose an emotiva given the fantastic praise regarding there sound by people who are IMO purely talking them up and probably don't even know what a good bench mark is for comparison. Sure emotiva amps are better than some of the other amps in the market (some of which are much much more expensive) but they are far from the best and far from sonically perfect!!

So the guy who can afford a more expensive amp decides to buy an Emotiva, and he might have a different opinion to yours and others who are once again IMO talking them up and the new owner might not be so happy. My comments have only been to point out the truth as to how good the sound is from Emotiva amps from my experience excluding the cost.

IMO all reivews of audio gear should be done completely excluding cost, a value for money assesment as a final word after the test results and conclusion can be used.

Bottom line, they are not great amps they don't sound perfect and they have audiable THD which is hard on the ears and not suitable for listening to music but dam they are cheap which for most people (that can live with the sound quality for HT applications and want heaps of power) equals fantastic value for money!!

[ttn]

anyone here who currently owns both an Emo 5 (or 2) chanel & Elektra 7 chanel power amp?

[pelennor]

As the owner of a decent amount of Emotiva gear, I don't think there is anything that can touch them value for money wise (except some of the 2 channel pro amps in the power amp stakes, and that's largely due to the shipping costs factor).  Sure, you can buy better gear .. but you'll pay the price for it.  What's the nearest competitor to the UMC-1?  The Marantz AV-7005, which is about $3500 AUD as compared to around $900 AUD ?

[frozenpod]

pelennor, on Dec 14 2010, 07:33 PM, said:

The Marantz AV-7005, which is about $3500 AUD as compared to around $900 AUD ?

Marantz AV-7005 can be had for 2k now, surprisingly a while back when it probably was around the 3k5 mark the cost of the processor without the amps is more than the cost of the processor with the intergrated amps......

How about a better comparision though.

The A3000 is now $1900, from what I have read it is better than the UC-1 3D ready and doesn't have the bugs (or as many bugs). A3000 has heaps of power more than 99.9% of people will ever need and the internal amps sound better than the emotiva amps. If you really need more power to deal with dynamics ect you only need a 2ch amp to reduce the load and it will IMO be suitable for even the most demanding users.

So you could buy your UC-1 and add your 5ch amp which will cost you slightly more or buy the A3000, which offers a better result and offers you better value IMO.

PS IMO the idea of buying a processor and having separate power amps is exactly the direction I think we should be heading. Amps have roughly a 20 year life were as with the rate of development processors are unlikely to last more than 5 years before they are required to be updated. Thus in the long run the UC-1 would be cheaper and better value than the A3000 but not from the initial purchase point of view.

[wilsact]

frozenpod, on Dec 15 2010, 08:33 AM, said:

Marantz AV-7005 can be had for 2k now, surprisingly a while back when it probably was around the 3k5 mark the cost of the processor without the amps is more than the cost of the processor with the intergrated amps......

How about a better comparision though.

The A3000 is now $1900, from what I have read it is better than the UC-1 3D ready and doesn't have the bugs (or as many bugs). A3000 has heaps of power more than 99.9% of people will ever need and the internal amps sound better than the emotiva amps. If you really need more power to deal with dynamics ect you only need a 2ch amp to reduce the load and it will IMO be suitable for even the most demanding users.

So you could buy your UC-1 and add your 5ch amp which will cost you slightly more or buy the A3000, which offers a better result and offers you better value IMO.

PS IMO the idea of buying a processor and having separate power amps is exactly the direction I think we should be heading. Amps have roughly a 20 year life were as with the rate of development processors are unlikely to last more than 5 years before they are required to be updated. Thus in the long run the UC-1 would be cheaper and better value than the A3000 but not from the initial purchase point of view.

Haha I was only mucking around with the porsche and bottle of wine jokes.  Sorry if offended, was only giving that fire a poke:)

Anyway this will now do me.

In one breath you are saying 'The problem with reviews, manufactures claims and internet BS is the truth is often lost tyres and audio gear suffer the exact same fait in this regard time and time again.'

In the next breath above you are saying ' from what I have read it is better than the UC-1 (UMC-1)??    Was this your much hated reviews or maybe perhaps that 'internet bs' or actual experience with them??

'So you could buy your UC-1 and add your 5ch amp which will cost you slightly more or buy the A3000, which offers a better result

and offers you better value IMO.[/i]'  But haven't you only read about the UMC-1, or have you now heard it as well???

Can you please clarify one last thing.  Have you heard all of emotiva's amps including their mono blocks, one of their two channel setups with the USP-1 preamp or for that matter the UMC-1, ERC-1 cd player etc etc etc

Have you compared the UMC-1 and five channel amp you mention with the A3000?.  

Or is YOUR opinion purely based on one single amp you heard (in still undisclosed setup), and what you have read on the internet?  Is this how you have reached you opinion on the entire emotiva brand?    If correct are you

not going against everything you have been preaching here?


Look everyone trust your own ears and experience (and probably the opinion of people that own the equipment if anything, over what others have 'read' on the internet or speculatation).

In the end it is not a huge gamble if you do decide to go the Emotiva way, and this gear if it appears on ebay or audiogon sells very quickly.  Can't imagine it would be hard to shift if you dislike.  How do I know?  I took that gamble, and

have closely watched ebay and audiogon in case some even bigger Emotiva bargains appear for sale that I could grab.  What small amount does sells very quickly indeed. None of my gear will be appearing forsale, well atleast until I get the

upgrade bug again.  Maybe the new Emotiva XMC-1 processor-


Also this is not a new company, but one that has been in business for many years, and stands by their products in my experience.  As another bonus the 40% processor upgrade bonus certificate hammers home the value even more.

Anyway why listen to me or anyone else posting here really, only individual opinions. Plenty of info as stated already exists in the emotiva owners thread here on dtv, and also elsewhere on the net, for those that do want to do some research

beforehand..   Most importantly trust your own ears and experience, all the specs, thd levels, dollars mean nothing if you are not happy with something.

As I have said I do not agree with the criticism in regards to sound quality.  In fact I feel very much the other way.  Also the question on whether it is junk in a fancy box has already been done to death.  This is just my humble opinion after

owning this gear.  I'm not one to blindly follow brands if they don't meet my expectations, or to justify what I have bought.  I have owned many different audio brands over the years.  Things that I didn't like I sold fairly quickly.  Of course I

am speaking from a purely amateur enthusiasts experience.  I do not have an engineering background, or access to $90,000 testing equipment. (joking...lol..imagine me trying to drive that- just some amateur ears to guide me.....


In the end each to their own, and if this is seen as 'pathetic' so be it, just my humble take on it.

Edited by wilsact, 15 December 2010 - 11:37 AM.

[Mitcon]

frozenpod, on Dec 15 2010, 08:03 AM, said:

Marantz AV-7005 can be had for 2k now, surprisingly a while back when it probably was around the 3k5 mark the cost of the processor without the amps is more than the cost of the processor with the intergrated amps......

How about a better comparision though.

The A3000 is now $1900, from what I have read it is better than the UC-1 3D ready and doesn't have the bugs (or as many bugs). A3000 has heaps of power more than 99.9% of people will ever need and the internal amps sound better than the emotiva amps. If you really need more power to deal with dynamics ect you only need a 2ch amp to reduce the load and it will IMO be suitable for even the most demanding users.

So you could buy your UC-1 and add your 5ch amp which will cost you slightly more or buy the A3000, which offers a better result and offers you better value IMO.

PS IMO the idea of buying a processor and having separate power amps is exactly the direction I think we should be heading. Amps have roughly a 20 year life were as with the rate of development processors are unlikely to last more than 5 years before they are required to be updated. Thus in the long run the UC-1 would be cheaper and better value than the A3000 but not from the initial purchase point of view.

Just a small point but your saying that the Emotiva UMC-1 plus 5ch amp costs more than the A3000 at $1900? How do you figure this as the UMC-1 with UPA-5 is only roughly $1,600 AUD or with the UPA-7 ch amp about $1,700 ish AUD (including shipping). If you go for the UMC-1 and XPA-5 it's around the same @ $1,900ish but you have a real 200wpc output over the rated 140wpc of the A3000 (which I wonder what it is in true output all channels driven (and if you look at the specs thats 140wpc at 20-20k @8ohm) Then also factor in Emotiva's 40% upgrade offer/program of surround pre/pro and the fact you have a 5 year warranty Vs 4 Years on the A3000.

Then as you said the UMC-1 also works out cheaper in the long run because when it comes time to upgrade pre/pro side of things you get to keep using the amp and just replace the processors side of things (which again also brings the 40% off for next gen/or better upgrade offer) so on budget side alone it looks pretty clear to me. Sound quality side of things is very subjective and everyone is different in their tastes or opinions, if you can hear something you don't like then it's not for you simple. As for testing I'm not into measurebating, I either like the sound of something or I don't. proof of the pudding is in the eating, not reviews or measurements as these can be bias or not allow for other subjective variations.

To answer the point of this threads question, are Emotiva any good?

IMO they certainly are and offer a great deal of value and bang for your buck as well as a future path as well as very good aftersales support. If your asking are they the best? then thats a silly question as theres always something better and theres always different choices and options depending upon system set-ups and personal tastes and budgets. This is the wonderful thing about this hobby is that their is so much choice that their should be something to suit everyones tastes, we should consider ourselves lucky to have so much freedom of choice. Enjoy

Edited by Mitcon, 15 December 2010 - 02:12 PM.

[Jutta]

Mitcon, on Dec 15 2010, 12:37 PM, said:

As for testing I'm not into measurebating,

OK - IT'S A LATE ENTRY BUT THAT RIGHT THERE IS QUOTE OF THE YEAR

[wilsact]

Jutta, on Dec 15 2010, 02:07 PM, said:

OK - IT'S A LATE ENTRY BUT THAT RIGHT THERE IS QUOTE OF THE YEAR

Gooooold-!!!

Edited by wilsact, 15 December 2010 - 02:01 PM.

[Mitcon]

Oh just for interest sake Home Theater and HiFi Secrets has just given the Emotiva UPA-5 one of their awards and made a review here

Oh no wait, Audioholics have just done a review and bench test of the UPA-7 and very highly praised it with the claim it's a "Embarrassment", no not to itself but rather other amps and the industry in general. Read more here.

Edited by Mitcon, 16 December 2010 - 06:55 AM.

[frozenpod]

UPA-5 doesn't have a full power rated Tx as was discussed in the comments after the review. It is not capable of its full rated power into all channels thus it is just like the internal amps on AVR's thus given the comemnts as to why you would want an external amp it isn't really an upgrade power wise.

Comparision with a top quality 2ch amp in this regard, rated at 120W per channel and has a 320VA Tx capable of actually producing with average mains voltage 140w continuous power into both channels and 171W before clipping.

The comments in the UPA-5 review are quite clear that the UPA-5 is better than the internal amps in his Onkyo reciever. The previous generation (from the date of review I am assuming this is what is being used) of onkyo recievers were regarded as having terrible internal amps thus I would be more than happy to except that the UPA-5 sound considerably better (just about any amp would sound better). I haven't read every word in detail but the review certainly wasn't claiming this was an exceptionaly good amp just an improvement over what he had previously used. As per other comments in this thread how many reviews actually make bad comments about a product.

As per the audioholics UPA-7 test and review most of the plots indicate this is a very good amp but look at the FFT.

"These are respectably good measurement but not the cleanest distortion spectra I've seen in some much higher priced well executed designs."

It has been years since I performend FFT's on amps but there certainly appears to be distortion in the non nice sounding harmonics that are audiable/detectable. That being said the amp I have heard I would have thought would have a noticeably higher THD given the considerable amount of auidable distortion.

As per my previously comments where the distortion energy is, greatly effects wether you will be able to hear distortion. Another somewhat rule of thumb which I don't completely agree with is if you compare two amps which both produce lower THD than the speakers you are driving you wont be able to hear the difference. Thus if you have crap speakers you might not be able to hear the difference which could explain why you and some other owners are so happy with there emotiva amps. I don't completely agree with this rule of thumb and IMO the overall THD produced by the system still changes when one component has been changed such as the amp even if the speakers have greater THD than the amps being tested.

The system, the amp I hear was the XPA-5, the pre/pro was an A3000, speakers were osborn. I did not personally do back to back testing between the A3000 internal amps and the emotiva but the owner did (someone who I have known for many years had we have both done listening comparison many many times before thus I am prepaired to believe them and I will shortly be doing the back to back testing myself).

Further to the point of the test results, amps submitted for reviews and testing are in many cases special in that even in budget brands they would likely be hand tune and or submit the pick of the bunch. All amps that go to consumers might not be quite that good.

There seems to be from owner comments quite a few happy and quite a few not so happy, this could possibly be explained by variation between amps particularly if they are not tuned. IE some might not be as good as others. Apart from performing back to back tests with the same system and with THD and FFT anaylsis we will never know.

As to pricing, my pricing was based on the XPA-5 for the above reasons I was not interested in the UP series.

My pricing came out a just over 2k but I was including GST thus your pricing is correct and the combo IMO worth considering is more expensive than the A3000.

Emotiva appear to be a good company, they have a very attractive deal going particularly with the 40% discount on an upgraded processor. They have provided more test results than most if not all other  amp manufactures do thus it looks like they have nothing to hide a huge +1!!!

But the not all the test results which they have available are presented on there website some of which do indicate the amp isn't quite as good as there claims.

[wilsact]

2010 Audioholics Product of the Year Awards
Award: Multi-Channel Amplifier
Emotiva: UPA-7 Seven Channel Power Amplifier | Review
We are getting tired of singing Emotiva's praises on their amplifiers.  Quite frankly its an embarrassment to the industry that they could offer such stunningly good performance for such a low asking price.  Their UPA-7 not only delivers more than specified power (125wpc x 7, 8-ohms; 185wpc x 7, 4-ohms) based on our bench tests, but it exhibits an exceedingly low noise and good channel to channel separation, ensuring its audio performance is great at all listening levels.  If you are looking to give your speaker system a shot of adrenaline, this is a great multi-channel amplifier on the cheap.  Sure, you could find a better seven channel amp, but we challenge you to do so at even double their asking price!

http://bit.ly/f0OVCN

You are now picking and choosing small snippets of info to support your dwindling opinion.  This is getting embarrassing.  'UPA-5 doesn't have a full power rated Tx as was discussed in the comments after the review. It is not capable of its full rated power into all channels thus it is just like the internal amps on AVR's thus given the comemnts as to why you would want an external amp it isn't really an upgrade power wise. '

Incorrect.  Why go off what some unknow people have written as comments after a review, rather than the review or tests themselves.  I thought as an engineer you were right into tests, thd, etc etc and this was part of your argument to begin with???

Look at transformer size in most av receivers and what they are capable of.  Also remember they are all in one boxes not just powering the amps inside.  For you to say an external amp like the UPA-5 or UPA-7 isn't really an upgrade power wise is just not true.  This is without even looking at the XPA series amps.

Anyway, as said I will still trust my own ears.

Ps.  Your much loved Yamaha RX-A3000 Receiver also scored av receiver of the year in these awards so well done to it sure its a great product.  (Just out of interest I can't see any transformer size recorded for it, but I did find that consumption was recorded at 400w os 490w usa)

Edited by wilsact, 16 December 2010 - 09:21 AM.

[myrantz]

frozenpod, on Dec 16 2010, 05:59 AM, said:

Comparision with a top quality 2ch amp in this regard, rated at 120W per channel and has a 320VA Tx capable of actually producing with average mains voltage 140w continuous power into both channels and 171W before clipping.

That's hardly fair is it?   Maybe equipment matching comes into play? RRP wise my old Elektra and my 2 channel power amp are about the same. between only these two i prefer the 2 chan power amp. But it's still very far from being an ideal system.

Not dismissing measurements, but the ears aren't as sensitive as instruments, and in a way harmonic distortions done right sound real good and natural, in fact done right I think is what sets it apart from a so so system, to an insanely out of the world reference.. in a sense THD+N and similar specifications play a part in judging the amplification ability, but the ears are the final judge (you have to like what you hear).

In you case you don't like it, but that's why audio is so passionate, there's really no universal law, some like it some don't...

frozenpod, on Dec 16 2010, 05:59 AM, said:

But the not all the test results which they have available are presented on there website some of which do indicate the amp isn't quite as good as there claims.

Maybe at $2k the deal isn't that good.. But i guess Australia is always screwed when it comes to shipping. At the mark price on the web, who can resist?

Don't discount China, or India for that matter .. The longer this brand stays alive, the better it'd get... Every company has to start from somewhere...

[:)]

Frozen pod is correct in his assessment. Something I have pointed out previously re the inadequate power supply size of the upa 5 and 7 models compared to their power claims. There are budget brand Avrs with bigger power supplies than either and more modest realistic power claims. At the end of it an amp is basically power supply. And is what determines it's ability to sustain power draw as claimed. Cut it and dice it anyway you like and you cannot beat the laws of physics.

You will note this is something not the case with their more expensive amps. Where some sanity rules. But certainly with the cheaper amps in discussion definitely a case of marketing department getting a bit overenthusiastic in claims hehe

[wilsact]

:), on Dec 16 2010, 10:30 AM, said:

Frozen pod is correct in his assessment. Something I have pointed out previously re the inadequate power supply size of the upa 5 and 7 models compared to their power claims. There are budget brand Avrs with bigger power supplies than either and more modest realistic power claims. At the end of it an amp is basically power supply. And is what determines it's ability to sustain power draw as claimed. Cut it and dice it anyway you like and you cannot beat the laws of physics.

You will note this is something not the case with their more expensive amps. Where some sanity rules. But certainly with the cheaper amps in discussion definitely a case of marketing department getting a bit overenthusiastic in claims hehe

Interesting point.  This is discussed at length on the emotiva lounge forum, where vastly more knowledgeable people then I have commented.

I do understand the laws of physics.... well almost....   -  , but in every bench test (not just emotiva's listed tests) power claims have been pretty much spot on.  Unlike most avr tests?  

If they are using these same bench tests for all their tests (unlike manufacturers who can use a number of tests), then what is the problem with comparing what they find between avrs and different amps?

Are these bench tests they are using favouring certain brands more so than others?  (im talking about audioholics as above as an example, who I find go over the top with showing how they test, and results....a good thing I guess!!)

Which budget avr's would you say have more realistic power claims?

I know that Harman and Arcam (I guess both not really budget) are reasonably honest with their power claims, but I would be interested to know who else you would add to this list, even more so at the 'budget' end of the market.

Again I stand by the 'its not the specs, thd, or claims' but the sound that matters.  Some like.  Some don't.

Thanks

Edited by wilsact, 16 December 2010 - 11:08 AM.