114 replies to this topic

[bassett]

Things have been a bit quite on here for a while so it might just be time to give the  fire a bloody good poke, and   talk about
something a bit more contentious ,  Namely this "Emotiva" brand.

They seem to offer a hell of a lot,  for very little.  Or do you really only get what you pay for.

On another thread someone reported that even thought he operating manual reported that there products are multi, duel,
international, voltages,  This is not always the case.
And not possible with a Toroidal power supply, Unless they offer an export version.

I've read all there blurb, or should that be propaganda, about the wonders of there product and all the short coming of everyone
else's products

Quote

The vast majority of receivers rated at 125, 130, or even 150 watts per channel are promising you output power, but they can't
really deliver it.Take a close look at the specs of most popular receivers. Now, take the top cover off, and ask yourself, how did they do
it? How could that small transformer, a couple of capacitors and that little heat sink and fan be generating and dissipating all the power
claimed?Here's a typical power spec from a popular name-brand receiver that sells for around $2,000:
120W x 7 (8 Ohm 20-20kHz 0.09%THD) - Sounds great, doesn't it?

But are they talking about 8 ohm driven or 4 ohm   ????

Then in the next line they tell you that there  $500 amp does everything a $2000+ Amp can't or won't do, and the  weight of there wonder
is something like 27 kilo's  Now look at a few of the photo's.  Presumably the massive  Toroidal transformer is hiding under the  tin cover.
But no-where  in any of there promotional photo's do they show it.  Wonder why that is,

And while we are at it,  can some brave soul please inform this idiot,  what a Class H amp is  ????

There based and supposedly manufactured in the US,  and don't list an agent outside of the US,  So Warrenty and freight charges would
have to be a concern.

I've done a bit of investigating, and can find some info both good and  not good,
Here's a small example
  http://forum.audiogo...pl?aa...m&2&4#2

I could find nothing on  Six Moons or  Hi-End Palace sites

So it's all a bit of a gamble, do you import and hope the blurb you've read is the
truth,  and not just marketing hype. And pray it doesn't go "POP" and convert to a smoke machine in the middle of the night.  Or do you
spend a bit // lot more and buy a more established brand , here and wonder for ever'more if there as good as the blurb would have you
believe Or are they really  destined for White van salesman.  In some outback car park

Please feel free to kick the Dog,  with your comments

Edited by bassett, 13 December 2010 - 12:23 PM.

[Jutta]

bassett, on Dec 13 2010, 01:21 PM, said:

Presumably the massive  Toroidal transformer is hiding under the  tin cover.
But no-where  in any of there promotional photo's do they show it.  Wonder why that is,

Click here EMO Pics
Go to the bottom of the page and click on the photos. I believe you will find what you are looking for.

Or here Mono Block for a small Toroidal Transformer at the bottom of the page.

Edited by Jutta, 13 December 2010 - 02:07 PM.

[wilsact]

Yes I love my emotiva gear.  Plenty of other dtv forum members who own this gear as well.  Some happy, some not so happy.  

Also click on the main product picture for each item, and it will bring up various pictures of each unit.

There is also already a lengthy Emotiva owners topic on the dtv forum here http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=79709

(probably don't need a whole new topic) and also the emotiva lounge forum where you can get plenty of answers to your questions.

Also see some reviews here: http://emotiva.com/reviews.shtm

cheers

Edited by wilsact, 13 December 2010 - 12:48 PM.

[myrantz]

bassett, on Dec 13 2010, 10:21 AM, said:

Please feel free to kick the Dog,  with your comments

AFAIK they don't have middlemen (sell direct to customers). The items are made in China. These two alone mean very low overheads and how they can offer things cheap...

Many things are made in China these days (the good ones and bad ones)..  There are actually alot of good audio gear coming from China....

The good ones can be as reliable as the best in the world, provided specs are followed properly and no corners are cut...

Disclaimer: No idea how they sound though, just the random comment that don't discount China..

[Autocrat]

Class H amplification

[frozenpod]

After listening too a 5ch emotiva amp on the weekend whilst they are cheap and have plenty of power there sound quality doesn't compare to a good quality stereo amp, certainly lacking in sound quality IMO compared with the manufactures and many other owners claims.

[Autocrat]

bassett, on Dec 13 2010, 01:21 PM, said:

So it's all a bit of a gamble, do you import and hope the blurb you've read is the
truth,  and not just marketing hype. And pray it doesn't go "POP" and convert to a smoke machine in the middle of the night.  Or do you
spend a bit // lot more and buy a more established brand , here and wonder for ever'more if there as good as the blurb would have you
believe Or are they really  destined for White van salesman.  In some outback car park

The gear is cheap - an AV Pre/pro landed for under $1k is in a market segment with no competitors. For that sort of money, there will be some flaws, it all depends whether you can live with them. For example, their new DAC appears to have a design flaw with the volume control; the pre/pro has some "interesting" design features around bass management. It's almost like they deliberately insert a flaw in order tom justify the low price. However, two things in their favour: they appear to be making good on their promise of fixing the firmware and DSP issues, and the unit punches way above its price in terms of audio quality.

How their gear compares to more expensive stuff is something I can't help with - I do know that the AVR I replaced with the pre/pro (Marantz SR7300OSE), which was no slouch audio-wise, isn't in the same class. Also, they've been going for a fair while in the US, and seem to have a customer base that ranges from loyal to rabid. so yes, while their are risks involved in importing anything, they don't seem to be greater for these units compared to others. And they'll take the unit back if you send it within 30 days, which is useless for Aus but does indicate how they do business locally.

[xrcist007]

I recentley bought there UPA-5, service was excellent, item was shipped within hours of them recieving the stock, i could track every movement of the package through fed ex website, package arrived double boxed, with no damage at all, setup the amp in about 2 mins, and was up and running watching my first power amp blu ray movie ever in minutes, so far so good. For someone like me that just didnt have $2k for an Elektra, the $600 i spent on this was exactley what i needed and performs and gives me the exact sound that i wanted. this was the case for me but may not be for everyone else.

[wilsact]

frozenpod, on Dec 13 2010, 02:11 PM, said:

After listening too a 5ch emotiva amp on the weekend whilst they are cheap and have plenty of power there sound quality doesn't compare to a good quality stereo amp, certainly lacking in sound quality IMO compared with the manufactures and many other owners claims.

Ok i'll bite-

What amp and  speakers did you listen to out of interest, and what prepro or receiver was driving the amp?

Obviously sound quality is subjective to each listener, but I find my UPA-1's a big step up over my previous Pioneer SC-LX81 (which was very good as well, and highly regarded) and other previous receivers.  If not I would have sold them, and not lost anything $$$ wise. See how long this gear lasts on audiogon or even ebay.  I don't accept ordinary sound quality, but by no means an expert:). I also appreciate that those with high budgets will never accept made in china cheaper gear as any good no matter what is said, written in reviews, or heard-. Also unfortunately the original post is inaccurate, and not a good indication of the emotiva brand.  Better to go off actual reviews and your own ears rather than speculation on what it might be like!!  Same as i will when my untried seaton submersives turn up, reputation or not.


I also rate them highly compared to some much higher cost NAD and Onkyo prepro/amp systems I have listened too.  Plenty of other owners, reviews etc out there that would also agree, each ones ears to their own though:). And forgetting Australia being on the other side of the world for a moment the 30 day return policy and 5 year warranty is pretty impressive in this price range and the us market place!

Anyways original post has now served its purpose, enough from me-. Like all these topics it would have been the same result if the topic brand was replaced with another eg seaton sound, anthem, denon, yamaha etc etc are shite...same vocal for and against Im sure-. Or how bout an lcd v plasma one, always good!  Or lets move on to how your porsche craps on my corolla.........$$$$$$ forgotten of course

Edited by wilsact, 13 December 2010 - 04:07 PM.

[Glen1]

I'm currently using one of the XPA-5 five channel power amps along with a Denon 2310 receiver as a processor.   The XPA-5 replaced an ME 550mk2 high cap and an ME555 which is the three channel version of the 550 mk2.   I can say that the XPA5 is definitely the equal of the ME amps which although do create quite a few arguments on forums like this were no slouch in their own right.   I am running Legend speakers across the front including passive Big Reds.   I have a Primare I30 integrated which I use for two channel.   I have tried the XPA5 as a two channel with the Primare as the pre and although not quite as good as the Primare there was definitely promise.

I know that if there is an issue with my amp it won't be all that easy to get fixed but I am bouyed by the fact that Emotiva do offer good service and will provide parts, advice and schematics to assist with repairs overseas.

Are they any good?   I reckon for the money they are terrific and worthy of the punt.   I'd like to hear the two channel gear and may even take the plunge on some of that range next year.

Edited by Glen1, 13 December 2010 - 03:25 PM.

[frozenpod]

wilsact, on Dec 13 2010, 02:51 PM, said:

Ok i'll bite-

What amp and  speakers did you listen to out of interest, and what prepro or receiver was driving the amp?

Obviously sound quality is subjective to each listener, but I find my UPA-1's a big step up over my previous Pioneer SC-LX81 (which was very good as well, and highly regarded) and other previous receivers.  If not I would have sold them, and not lost anything $$$ wise. See how long this gear lasts on audiogon or even ebay.  I don't accept ordinary sound quality, but by no means an expert:). I also appreciate that those with high budgets will never accept made in china cheaper gear as any good no matter what is said, written in reviews, or heard-. Also unfortunately the original post is inaccurate, and not a good indication of the emotiva brand.  Better to go off actual reviews and your own ears rather than speculation on what it might be like!!  Same as i will when my untried seaton submersives turn up, reputation or not.


I also rate them highly compared to some much higher cost NAD and Onkyo prepro/amp systems I have listened too.  Plenty of other owners, reviews etc out there that would also agree, each ones ears to their own though:)

I don't think you will find any other 5 ch @200 W per ch at this price, at least I haven't seen one; on speacial for $709USD about 1k landed (yes I checked because I was thinking of buying one). This is a bargin base no frills price, and looks to be amazing value as per below I couldn't even build my own amp in limited qty for this price ie 1kw amp for $1000 ie $1 per 1 watt.

I didn't suggest this amp wasn't value for money but it isn't as good as some owners have claimed or as good as the manufactures claims.

I would be more than happy to agree that this amp is better than many amps which cost 2,3 or even 5 times the price but then again they are not good amps and just massively over priced. An example I can think of was an amp recently tested in a local mag, I wont mention the name but the reviewer was very impressed and gave it a good write up. Amp had a reasonable premium price for the exclusive audiophile club and great specs the reviewers comments indicated it was a great amp but the test results indicate other wise such as audible noise floor and audible THD.

Regarding your comments about $$$$ and my thinking that this is cheap chinese crap, I am a qualified engineer, I have built my own amps in the passed and I currently work for a small development company (not audio related). We have quite a few of our products manufactured overseas for cost reasons and I am well aware of what quality is available and at what price from both India and China. In our experience if you pay a small premium which is still much cheaper than local manufacture you can get exceptional quality out of china.

I can assure you my comments have nothing to do with the mentality that this is cheap chinese crap or in relation to the $$$$ figure of the item.

[wilsact]

I didn't suggest this amp wasn't value for money but it isn't as good as some owners have claimed or as good as the manufactures claims.


I think what you said was ' certainly lacking in sound quality IMO compared with the manufactures and many other owners claims.'
All i was saying is in my experience and humble opinion this isn't the case.  Hence why I was interested in the setup you heard the amp in, and what amp it was.  Pretty damning statement, so worth looking at more out of fairness. Also just out of fairness I don't think it is just Emotiva and owners liking the gear, there is also plenty of reviews about.


http://emotiva.com/reviews.shtm

And yes I know alot of reviews can be taken with a grain of salt, which is why I still much prefer to let my own humble ears be the judge. At the end of the day all the specs, claims, and reputation mean little if you don't like what you hear.  I like-. Your not a fan, I am.  Case closed.
Each to their own, and as I said the topic has served its inciting purpose.....

Edited by wilsact, 13 December 2010 - 05:29 PM.

[bassett]

wilsact, on Dec 13 2010, 02:51 PM, said:

Also unfortunately the original post is inaccurate, and not a good indication of the emotiva brand.

As the original poster of this thread, Just perhaps you can tell me why or how I am wrong in my impressions  of the Emotiva  brand.
I simply stated the facts, as someone who has never seen or heard the product.

wilsact, on Dec 13 2010, 02:51 PM, said:

Better to go off actual reviews and your own ears rather than speculation on what it might be like!!

If your going to believe, the rubbish the reviews  tell you about a product in a magazine,  Then there is little hope for you.  
Magazine reviewers bow to the advertisers dollars,  Tell the truth about some products and two things happen.  The advertisers
of the product stop advertising, and the magazine goes broke.  When did you last read that a product was crap and a waste of money.

As for sound reviews, as there are no agent's or retailers in this country for the product, and you live where you can't hear what
other people have bought.  How do you access,  the value or quality of  ANY product.  So your buying a "Pig in a Poke"

wilsact, on Dec 13 2010, 02:51 PM, said:

And forgetting Australia being on the other side of the world for a moment the 30 day return policy and 5 year warranty is pretty
impressive in this price range and the us market place.

Better not forget where you live..  You state there is a 30 day return policy.  Try looking at the delivery time in that 30 days and then
say it's a good offer.  As for warranty,  should the thing  die, It's up to you to freight the thing back to the States, and  also pay for a
return trip.  It would be far more practical to bin the thing and buy another one.

I've had supposed Hi-end products repaired by the importers, in this country. No bloody idea, what they where doing.
Four and a half months later, I had to threaten legal action to get the thing returned

wilsact, on Dec 13 2010, 02:51 PM, said:

Or lets move on to how your porsche craps on my corolla....

Ha Ha,, There not that wonderful, Try getting a tow-bar  for a 944 or a 928,  Half the time the toffee nosed salesman faints in shock,
or if not wants to know why you need one.  And forget trying to get anything  used  for a 911, and if you can find anything, you'll
need to sell some of your kids to pay for it.  I used to know a strange property owner who used a 911 to round up his sheep and he
needed a trailer to cart his hay round the paddock.

[wilsact]

Haha I shouldn't, but what the hell it was all about poking the fire wasn't it:)

Things have been a bit quite on here for a while so it might just be time to give the fire a bloody good poke, and talk about
something a bit more contentious , Namely this "Emotiva" brand.

On another thread someone reported that even thought he operating manual reported that there products are multi, duel,
international, voltages, This is not always the case.
And not possible with a Toroidal power supply, Unless they offer an export version.

Incorrect, amps, processors, dac, preamp all multi voltage as per the specs on the Emotiva website.  Only thing that I am aware thats not is the subwoofers- for now.

But are they talking about 8 ohm driven or 4 ohm ????

Then in the next line they tell you that there $500 amp does everything a $2000+ Amp can't or won't do, and the weight of there wonder
is something like 27 kilo's Now look at a few of the photo's. Presumably the massive Toroidal transformer is hiding under the tin cover.
But no-where in any of there promotional photo's do they show it. Wonder why that is,

Incorrect. Full photos of both inside and outside each amp is shown, clearly showing the transformer and everything else.  As stated by both me and other posters earlier if you click on the main photo they all pop up, or many more are at the end of listing.  Also full audio precision spec test data is provided at the bottom of each product listing at both 8ohm and 4ohm.

And while we are at it, can some brave soul please inform this idiot, what a Class H amp is ????

Im confused about what you mean here.  Are you talking about their current A/B amps (website has full details for all amps) or their upcoming H class amps (haven't been released yet?) If so what is you point here, and what idiot needs informing?

There based and supposedly manufactured in the US, and don't list an agent outside of the US, So Warrenty and freight charges would
have to be a concern.

Incorrect.  There manufacturing is done in China, and it has never been stated otherwise.  They are an internet direct company as clearly stated on the website, with no agents, hence the pricing as others have stated.

If your going to believe, the rubbish the reviews tell you about a product in a magazine, Then there is little hope for you.

Please look at what I actually said.

'Also just out of fairness I don't think it is just Emotiva and owners liking the gear, there is also plenty of reviews about.
http://emotiva.com/reviews.shtm
And yes I know alot of reviews can be taken with a grain of salt, which is why I still much prefer to let my own humble ears be the judge. At the end of the day all the specs, claims, and reputation mean little if you don't like what you hear. I like-'

In saying that I would not say all reviews, magazines, websites etc have been bought out by the manufacturing dollar.  Mind you plenty have, but I still find plenty useful including some that have given emotiva great reviews as listed on their site.

I've done a bit of investigating, and can find some info both good and not good,
Here's a small example
http://forum.audiogo...pl?aa...m&2&4#2

I could find nothing on Six Moons or Hi-End Palace sites
And forgetting Australia being on the other side of the world for a moment the 30 day return policy and 5 year warranty is pretty
impressive in this price range and the us market place.
Better not forget where you live.. You state there is a 30 day return policy. Try looking at the delivery time in that 30 days and then
say it's a good offer. As for warranty, should the thing die, It's up to you to freight the thing back to the States, and also pay for a
return trip. It would be far more practical to bin the thing and buy another one.
I've had supposed Hi-end products repaired by the importers, in this country. No bloody idea, what they where doing.
Four and a half months later, I had to threaten legal action to get the thing returned.

My point here was merely that they have confidence in their products in their home market of the USA, with the 30 day return and 5 year warranty.  I wasn't forgetting where I live:) thanks and the hassle this creates with return/warranty.  Its the same risk I am taking with my Seaton submersives, and one I am willing to take for a good product and the reputation they have for looking after international customers.  And yes I have already been looked after very well thanks.

Edited by wilsact, 13 December 2010 - 07:28 PM.

[:)]

hi bassie,

like with most things, I would dare say there are a whole host of reasons people buy something with price usually just one factor. even if two items priced the same you'll usually find heaps of people buying either for their very own reasons. and vive la difference. its the reason theres so much on the market to choose from. otherwise all anyone would ever consider or buy would be emotiva wouldnt they ? and yet we dont.

as they say one mans wine is anothers vinegar. and ask someone who loves that wine and theyd likely say they really enjoy it whereas someone else who finds otherwise likely say yuck its 2 buck chuck not sure why youd bother...each to their own...

theres only one way..and you know it. is to experience for yourself in your very own context and to compare with some other likely candidates to decide. otherwise all you'll be reading is about others opinions. or worse still just going off some spec numbers, photos, manufacturer fluff or the stuff on the fanboy forums, hardly anything that is basis for making a buying decision

[frozenpod]

wilsact, on Dec 13 2010, 05:49 PM, said:

I think what you said was ' certainly lacking in sound quality IMO compared with the manufactures and many other owners claims.'
All i was saying is in my experience and humble opinion this isn't the case.  Hence why I was interested in the setup you heard the amp in, and what amp it was.  Pretty damning statement, so worth looking at more out of fairness. Also just out of fairness I don't think it is just Emotiva and owners liking the gear, there is also plenty of reviews about.

To put this amp in a fair comparison, how many amps actually produce lower than audiable THD? Although I have not performed any tests on amplifiers in 4 years back when I did the answer from the amplifiers I tested was zero (some of which were highly regarded) and I doubt that has changed.

The emotiva amp I have listen too did produce audiabe distortion, testing was conducted with a known system performing back to back tests. The manufactures specs and test report on emotiva's website provide evidence that the amp should be about as closer to perfect as you can get producing lower than audiable THD.

When I was building my own amps and had access to $90k HP anyalyser for FFT and THD measurement. I performed controlled tests on a number of off the shelf amplifiers as per above all of which produced considerably more THD than the manufactures specs ie spec of 0.007% THD actually measured closer to 0.2% THD @1w and 1kHz and 1% THD @ 10w and 1kHz (results from memory). Every amp I tested produced THD in the auidable range even though some sounded quite good, others didn't.

Where the distortion energy was determines how good the amp sounded compared with one amp to another in real world back to back tests.

The human ear can hear approximately 2mV of noise in a 60V audio signal, to produce an amplifier that will produce less than 2mV of noise is increadably difficult but not impossible. Variation from one unit or even one component to the next can be all it takes to produce that much noise or increase THD to the audiable range. Most high quality amplifiers are hand built and hand tuned. Often the power stage components are tested and matched to remove noise and reduce THD.

Circuit design may have improved to reduce and the influence of component variation but I believe some fine tuning will always be required. Given the budget price of the emotiva's they might not be tuned and this could account for the variation between customers opinions.

Although it is no longer possible for me to do so I would love to take a few measurements of the emotiva amp. It would also be great to compared multiple units of the same model and compare the variation.

[frozenpod]

I should further clarify, the distortion produced by the emotiva was not plesant (as per above some amps still sound fine) it was hard on the ears and listening for long periods was difficult.

[wilsact]

I should further clarify, the distortion produced by the emotiva was not plesant (as per above some amps still sound fine) it was hard on the ears and listening for long periods was difficult.
The human ear can hear approximately 2mV of noise in a 60V audio signal, to produce an amplifier that will produce less than 2mV of noise is increadably difficult but not impossible. Variation from one unit or even one component to the next can be all it takes to produce that much noise or increase THD to the audiable range. Most high quality amplifiers are hand built and hand tuned. Often the power stage components are tested and matched to remove noise and reduce THD.    


Ok you win, Emotiva is definately not for you:)  Would still be interested to hear what setup you heard this Emotiva amp in (speakers, prepro/processor, source etc)???  

Also could you suggest a hand built and hand tuned mono block amplifier to replace my Emotiva UPA-1 with, that won't be so difficult to listen too?  P.S Must be under $1000us, and will need three of them for that price.
Happy with any brand you suggest as long as it betters my emotiva amps and matches them on power....or maybe an av receiver as an all in one solution for under $3000, again any brand you suggest that meets your THD and listening requirements.

Cheers and thanks for your help.

Edited by wilsact, 13 December 2010 - 11:47 PM.

[wilsact]

:), on Dec 13 2010, 08:06 PM, said:

hi bassie,

like with most things, I would dare say there are a whole host of reasons people buy something with price usually just one factor. even if two items priced the same you'll usually find heaps of people buying either for their very own reasons. and vive la difference. its the reason theres so much on the market to choose from. otherwise all anyone would ever consider or buy would be emotiva wouldnt they ? and yet we dont.

as they say one mans wine is anothers vinegar. and ask someone who loves that wine and theyd likely say they really enjoy it whereas someone else who finds otherwise likely say yuck its 2 buck chuck not sure why youd bother...each to their own...

theres only one way..and you know it. is to experience for yourself in your very own context and to compare with some other likely candidates to decide. otherwise all you'll be reading is about others opinions. or worse still just going off some spec numbers, photos, manufacturer fluff or the stuff on the fanboy forums, hardly anything that is basis for making a buying decision

Couldn't agree more.  Speaking of wine I saw a 'blind taste test' involving some well renowned wine tasters and a large price range of wines on TV recently.  It was funny, they all ended up picking one of the lower end wines as their favorite.
Was funny to see their faces when the results announced, especially one judge who was very vocal about knowing the difference between a $200 bottle, and a $20 bottle.

That would be a far better idea when picking amps.  Blindfolds.....price/reputations hidden:)

Edited by wilsact, 13 December 2010 - 11:58 PM.

[tll]

frozenpod, on Dec 13 2010, 02:11 PM, said:

After listening too a 5ch emotiva amp on the weekend whilst they are cheap and have plenty of power there sound quality doesn't compare to a good quality stereo amp, certainly lacking in sound quality IMO compared with the manufactures and many other owners claims.

totally agreed, in saying that, I'm happy with my XPA-5 to serve my HT system

[frozenpod]

wilsact, on Dec 14 2010, 12:25 AM, said:

[i]IOk you win, Emotiva is definately not for you:)  Would still be interested to hear what setup you heard this Emotiva amp in (speakers, prepro/processor, source etc)???  

Also could you suggest a hand built and hand tuned mono block amplifier to replace my Emotiva UPA-1 with, that won't be so difficult to listen too?  P.S Must be under $1000us, and will need three of them for that price.
Happy with any brand you suggest as long as it betters my emotiva amps and matches them on power....or maybe an av receiver as an all in one solution for under $3000, again any brand you suggest that meets your THD and listening requirements.

As I posted above from my research there isn't anything remotely close to this amp when you compared the power output and price.

I had very high hopes that the emotiva would be as good as there reputation and test results as if it was it was the deal of the century. To quote myself "I couldn't even build my own amp for the price"

For others who can either live with the sound this amp offers exceptional value.

For $1k 200w x 3 and also sounds great, from what I have seen no chance but if you can live with less power there might be options available (I hope).

I am currently debating about building my own amps or buying something off the shelf which is suitable. If I purchase an amp I would most likely be looking at a much lower power output probably in the range of 60-100w and I think 2-3ch would suffice for my requirements.

[frozenpod]

wilsact, on Dec 14 2010, 12:45 AM, said:

Couldn't agree more.  Speaking of wine I saw a 'blind taste test' involving some well renowned wine tasters and a large price range of wines on TV recently.  It was funny, they all ended up picking one of the lower end wines as their favorite.
Was funny to see their faces when the results announced, especially one judge who was very vocal about knowing the difference between a $200 bottle, and a $20 bottle.

That would be a far better idea when picking amps.  Blindfolds.....price/reputations hidden:)

I also agree.

One of my favourate blind fold tests I have seen was a chocolate test 3 different chocolates all at different prices.

The so called expert said the very expensive chocolate was sharp and not smooth and the cheapest. The cheapest (freddo frog) he loved said this is by far the best and must be the most expensive chocolate.

+1 for the freddo frog.

[Jutta]

bassett, on Dec 13 2010, 06:57 PM, said:

Better not forget where you live..  You state there is a 30 day return policy.  Try looking at the delivery time in that 30 days and then
say it's a good offer.

Bassett - you obviously don't like the gear, how about leaving at that!

As for this attempt at picking another hole   - delivery time is 5 days DOOR TO DOOR.

The OP was close enough for the troll horn to come out I think.

Edited by Jutta, 14 December 2010 - 08:03 AM.

[frozenpod]

shanyau, on Dec 14 2010, 07:45 AM, said:

totally agreed, in saying that, I'm happy with my XPA-5 to serve my HT system

I think this is a very valid contribution and a realistic position to take. Anyone consdiering a purchase of a high powered power amp for HT use, you should read this.

[Autocrat]

I haven't heard their amps, and I probably won't ever. What I can say is that the components they use in their processing/source equipment are not "junk in a fancy box". The components they use all appear to be good quality (eg the DAC uses an AD1955 DAC). Of course, the worth of the item is all in the implementation - you can pour all of the good stuff into the product and still end up with a heap of crap. For mine, emotiva seem to build around good quality components, but then make some unusual design decisions that devalue the products somewhat. However, you really can spend 5 and 10 times as much on a pre-pro and get something that's been very poorly implemented (how long did it take NAD to get the M15HD right, if it even is yet. Or the Cary processor. In fact, just about anything that isn't Japanese seems to be a problem).At least with emotiva it doesn't hurt so much if you get stung.