18 replies to this topic

[Bobbsy]

I've been contacted by an acquaintance in the Woronora Heights area of Sydney (I'm up in Qld).

They've been in their house for a while and, when they moved in, putting in a lead between the antenna socket on the wall and the back of their TV got them a good digital signal.

However, just lately, they've started having an intermittent problem with pixelation, worse on some channels than others.

They've had a couple of installers around and both are trying to sell a masthead amplifier--and quoting $400 and $700 respectively for this.

However, as described by my friends, the signal where they are is strong enough that simply plugging a long lead into the TV socket and draping it over the curtain poles gets them a non-pixelated signal.

Clearly, I'm not there but trying to sell a masthead amp for a previously good signal sounds wrong.  I'd guess that either the antenna has been blown off point or there's been water ingress in the downlead (or some other problem).  Either way, an amp is not the cure and the quotes seem excessive.

So, can anyone recommend a reputable installer in that area so I can pass on the name to my friends?

Thanks in advance.

Bob

[bellotv]

Bobbsy, on Sep 5 2010, 05:01 PM, said:

I've been contacted by an acquaintance in the Woronora Heights area of Sydney (I'm up in Qld).

They've been in their house for a while and, when they moved in, putting in a lead between the antenna socket on the wall and the back of their TV got them a good digital signal.

However, just lately, they've started having an intermittent problem with pixelation, worse on some channels than others.

They've had a couple of installers around and both are trying to sell a masthead amplifier--and quoting $400 and $700 respectively for this.

However, as described by my friends, the signal where they are is strong enough that simply plugging a long lead into the TV socket and draping it over the curtain poles gets them a non-pixelated signal.

Clearly, I'm not there but trying to sell a masthead amp for a previously good signal sounds wrong.  I'd guess that either the antenna has been blown off point or there's been water ingress in the downlead (or some other problem).  Either way, an amp is not the cure and the quotes seem excessive.

So, can anyone recommend a reputable installer in that area so I can pass on the name to my friends?

Thanks in advance.

Bob

Send MTV or Charlesc a PM .Both these installers are forum contributors and work in Sydney area.

They have meters and will do the right thing.

[mtv]

Bob,

If the signals are as strong as you say, it's possible they are too strong, causing tuner overload.

If this is the case, adding an amplifier will make the problem worse.

Overly-strong signals have the same result as very-low signals... excessive bit errors, which the tuner cannot correct, resulting in pixelation, or total loss of reception.

There could be many other causes, such as those you've mentioned.... antenna movement or damage, poor connections, water/rust/corrosion, etc.

Without inspection or accurate signal measurements, it's difficult to determine the exact nature of the fault/s.

A masthead amp should not be required, especially if your friends are in an elevated spot, with a clear view towards the city/north shore transmitters.

Most pepole in that area can also receive the Illawarra channels reliably, with a UHF antenna pointed to Knights Hill.

Have any of the installers who are quoting for a masthead amp actually inspected the antenna and measured signals?

[aerialxpert]

Gee $400-$700 for an amplifier thats good I charge $200 but unfortunately dont service that area. But go with the previous recommendation and get someone reputable out there. Another possibility is it could be the fly lead. Ive found that the cheap leads break down pretty easily you could try a new digital standard lead then do a factory reset and retune (if he's using a STB). Yes we have had some severe wind over the weekend its possible that the aerial has been blown off course check alignment with neighbours aerials for a guide. Water wont get in if its a digital standard aerial with a F connection at the balun and he's using RG6 quad cable. If its an old aerial and airspaced cable its possible for water to get into it, in this case its due for an upgrade.

[M'bozo]

aerialxpert, on Sep 8 2010, 07:36 AM, said:

Water wont get in if its a digital standard aerial with a F connection at the balun and he's using RG6 quad cable.

I have already this week replaced 2 antennas where this has indeed happened, after days of rain.

Both antennas were good quality items.

FMA showed a potential construction/assembly error in one (that I have not seen before), the other was caused by not using the supplied rubber boot that fits over the "F" connector to protect it.

[mtv]

aerialxpert, on Sep 8 2010, 07:36 AM, said:

Water wont get in if its a digital standard aerial with a F connection at the balun and he's using RG6 quad cable.

I disagree,

I've seen several instances where water (often just from condensation) gets into F connections on 'digital' (and other) antennas.

That's why I always seal them with butyl rubber tape.... gas-tight.

[M'bozo]

And I use compression connectors with an internal O ring as well.........

however, this doesn't stop moisture/water getting into the balun assembly, or in the case of all of the log periodics I have come across, into the Cu/Al junction where the coax terminates on the antenna.

[bellotv]

To me its seems that no matter what antenna you use,they will all end up corroded in the balan/connection point sooner or later.

After years of trying different techniques and observations of results I now pump balans full of silicon completely covering all connections ,PCB, in/out points external screws,bolts what ever.

One fellow said to me "But now I won't be able to redo the connections cause they are covered in silicon"
I replied  "The only time you may want to is when they are corroded"

I now days only use Fraccaro antennas. Logs,Phased arrays or yagis. Alcads occasionally

Fraccaro have now changed the balans on their phased arrays and yagis to a "sealed" unit with a rubber sealed boot.
Sorry fraccaro but I still totally reseal your balan in silicon.I just don't trust our weather

I always pumped the ends of old Fraccaro logs with silicon before fitting the end cap.I figured that if you can keep the air/moisture out of this dissimilar metal connection then longevity must folow
Not to sure how the newer ones will last as  the internal coax flylead is "pressed" onto the elements in the end cap.

I always pumped  Fraccaro Phased array balans full of silicon and covered all screw in connection on the back ( the older style with the round balan)

A rubber boot is only as good as the bloke that fits it (or not)
I often see jobs where they are missing or incorrectly fitted and the antenna and the coax is rendered useless after a few months in the elements .

All this extra buggering around with silicon costs me more time and money but I am convinced that antenna life is dramatically increased.

I hate going back to jobs I did a few years ago to find the antenna I fitted has failed due to moisture ingress .

[M'bozo]

Whoops, hijacking a thread again

Yep, just remembered, thought about that 3 years ago here

[Bobbsy]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

In the end, I suggested a few things for my friends to try and the very first of these seemed to work.  They took off the cover plate from the antenna socket behind the TV and found the screen of the coax was shorting to the centre conductor.  Remakig the connection cured the problem.

....a bit different than a $400 antenna booster.

Anyway, thanks again for the suggestions.  To answer, mtv's question, both installers (and I use the term loosely) visited the house and supposedly inspected things but, as far as my non-technical friends know, neither measured the signal.

Bob

[tricka]

Apologies for the need to get up 5 posts - I have a slightly different issue in Blaxland and need someone who knows what they are doing with dtv and FM.

[tricka]

Apologies for the need to get up 5 posts - I have a slightly different issue in Blaxland and need someone who knows what they are doing with dtv and FM.

[tricka]

Apologies for the need to get up 5 posts - I have a slightly different issue in Blaxland and need someone who knows what they are doing with dtv and FM.

[tricka]

Apologies for the need to get up 5 posts - I have a slightly different issue in Blaxland NSW 2774 and need someone who knows what they are doing with dtv and FM.

[tricka]

Apologies for the need to get up 5 posts - I have a slightly different issue in Blaxland and need someone who knows what they are doing with dtv and FM.
I promise this is the last: gosh what an annoying rule.

In any event MTV if you live in the LBM (and aren't on the Coast somewhere having no doubt well deserved hols) would you mind giving me a tingle via PM.
I have a digital tv antenna installed with an amplifier. When the aerial fellow was here and he tuned it through his meter every channel was "10" in quality. Now they are "1". I also have a Godar FM aerial arriving that I need installing (if the Telly aerial doesn't give me a clean FM - need both ABC Classic and 2 MBS).

Kind Regards
Andrew

and again apologies for the multi posting.

Edited by tricka, 31 December 2010 - 03:07 PM.

[tricka]

A DTV forum member kindly assisted - so I'll see how I get on next week.
Many thanks

[mtv]

tricka, on Dec 31 2010, 05:32 PM, said:

A DTV forum member kindly assisted - so I'll see how I get on next week.
Many thanks

Andrew,

I've been around the Blaxland area all this week, but away now.

The red text thread is specifically for getting post counts up without clogging forums.... it's intended to reduce the amount of spammers starting threads, but it does little to prevent them from posting in existing threads.

Anyhow, sounds like you have it sorted.

If you are getting FM via your TV antenna, you have the wrong antenna type for digital TV, as such an antenna is designed not to receive the FM band, or at least to greatly attenuate FM and band 1 & 2 signals.

It must be a very inaccurate meter the installer used if all it has is a 'scale' from 1 to 10, rather than industry-standard signal measurements in dBuV, true BER and MER ... or perhaps the 1-10 is signal display on your TV?

Having a separate FM antenna and the correct digital TV antenna, installed in the best signal mounting location, will provide optimum performance in their respective bands.

[tricka]

Thanks Col
yes it is the 1-10 scale on my Pana.
Apologies for cluttering up the thread: I figured, since it was an older one apparently inactive, it wouldn't be too annoying - saw your red thread thingi afterwards.
Re FM: That was my understanding as well. Yup I get FM reception over the co axial.
The aerial fellow who installed the aerial in our rental property sold me a DC power pack ($55 plus $40 service call) to replace the AC one for the amplifier saying it was more "powerful" (which in all fairness it probably is), plugged in his portable tuner and got a signal. He then tuned in the digital stations through the portable tuner thingi he had into the Pana. All the readings on my Pana were "10" when he did it. Now they are all "1" occasionally getting to "3". On hot days we don't get any signal at all.
I rang and asked what was up. He suggested turned off the dc power pack for 10 minutes and then turning it back on. Not sure what that would do. Tried it, but of course made no difference.
In any event hopefully the installer who answered will be able to make some sense of it all. We shall see.

[mtv]

tricka, on Jan 1 2011, 03:50 PM, said:

Thanks Col
yes it is the 1-10 scale on my Pana.
Apologies for cluttering up the thread: I figured, since it was an older one apparently inactive, it wouldn't be too annoying - saw your red thread thingi afterwards.
Re FM: That was my understanding as well. Yup I get FM reception over the co axial.
The aerial fellow who installed the aerial in our rental property sold me a DC power pack ($55 plus $40 service call) to replace the AC one for the amplifier saying it was more "powerful" (which in all fairness it probably is), plugged in his portable tuner and got a signal. He then tuned in the digital stations through the portable tuner thingi he had into the Pana. All the readings on my Pana were "10" when he did it. Now they are all "1" occasionally getting to "3". On hot days we don't get any signal at all.
I rang and asked what was up. He suggested turned off the dc power pack for 10 minutes and then turning it back on. Not sure what that would do. Tried it, but of course made no difference.
In any event hopefully the installer who answered will be able to make some sense of it all. We shall see.

tricka,

No probs with me about the thread posts. It's just good etiquette. I think it would be a good idea if new members/guests were automatically directed to the information about minimum post requirements, etc as most don't seem to find such info easily.

A higher rated power supply won't make any difference to the amp operation, compared to the original power supply, assuming it was not underrated.

I've addressed your other issues in my PM to you.