31 replies to this topic

[bonehead]

Hi,

I've read with interest lately of a few PVR's that include (or will include via upcoming firmware) of DLNA support.  If I understand correctly though, all it means is that they will be able to stream avi's, etc from another DLNA source to the connected screen.  What I'm after is a little different.

I'm likely to purchase a tele soon which will have DLNA support built in.  If I buy a DLNA compliant PVR and connect it to another tele (in another room), will there be any way to access the shows recorded on it from the other tele via streaming through the wifi network?

If so, which ones should I be looking at?

Thanks in advance, bonehead.

[pgdownload]

bonehead, on Sep 1 2010, 10:22 AM, said:

If so, which ones should I be looking at? Thanks in advance, bonehead.

Streaming TV via wifi is not generally recommended (its usually a faily frustrating process). If you're going to try do it a bit you'd be much better off spending a bit of time to run an ethernet cable between TVs.

Also, I don't know but I'd suspect any new PVRs with DLNA support will be able to connect to a DLNA server (NAS/PC) and play photos, music, videos off that. The PVR will not be acting as a server to play videos on its hard drive to other units. Don't know that for sure but suspect it.

FWIW if you want to get into DLNA and networking entertainment, then you should be looking to get a NAS that can store all your files and run with the PC turned off. $300 and up

Regards

Peter Gillespie

PS Regardless of the DLNA setup, You won't be able to stream most recorded shows off the PVR to other units over wireless. A standard 1 hr AVI/MKV file (download) might be 0.5 to 1.0 Gb in size. PVRs record at around 4Gb to 10Gb.

Edited by pgdownload, 01 September 2010 - 10:42 AM.

[deangelj]

pgdownload, on Sep 1 2010, 10:39 AM, said:

...
The PVR will not be acting as a server to play videos on its hard drive to other units. Don't know that for sure but suspect it.

The Topfield units beta DLNA firmware currently allows you to do this, ie. play media stored on another PVR. The PVRs can shared their folders out so are essentially DMS's (servers) much like PCs (Windows Media Player, TVersity etc). And they are DMCs (controllers) so they can find and send content to the DMRs (renderers).

Caveat: there's no indication as to when this will make a release firmware although one can surmise from Topfield's DLNA announcement that it should be "soon"

[Topfield beta tester]

[Uncle_Roy]

hi Bonehead...John and Peters comments are quite valid. Streaming video content through a wireless network is a no no, take it from someone who has already experimented with this. Also, sharing recorded content on a PVR via DLNA to other screens in the house is not really the purpose of the PVR so you would be hard pressed to find a box that will do this for you. So here are a couple of ideas that i have done to combat this

1. Install LAN cabling to each device. If you are serious about the quality of the content you are watching then you will find out very quickly wireless will not cut it. I can confirm this, even over an 802.11n network (155mb).
2. Buy yourself a Media Server/NAS to house all your content. This NAS must be a DLNA server and will act as your source for all networked/streamed content. I use  LaCie 2TB Network Space v2 @ $345 but there are many out there cheaper if you look around. Make sure it has an FTP server function as well.
3. Use an old PC (or your current one) that will automatically ftp the content on your PVR to a folder on your NAS/Media Player and voila, you now have it available to any DLNA player in your network. You can set it up so that only the content on your PVR is syncronised to your NAS and delete stuff on the NAS that was deleted on the PVR, or you can simply ftp new stuff to your NAS and will have to manually remove it from the NAS at a later date. Some NAS's have options built in that can do this step for you like the one I use and saves keeping another box running all day.

This works well for me and is scaleable as my very poor content library grows. I mainly set this up for the kids movies as we were sick and tired of changing dvd disks and scratching them. I also use it as a Media Player server to share all my music wirelessly (this works well) as well as a iTunes Server. Some have printer server functions and BT clients if this is a requirement.

The key is to use the device that is suited to the task you want to perform. For recording FTA that's a PVR, for sharing/storing content use a Media Server/NAS,  to stream content from a media server you use a DLNA media player like a TV, BD player or something like a WDTV Live connected to a non-DLNA screen. With a little preparation you can make a fairly robust content solution at a reasonably low price.

[swordfish805]

Gee, I dunno what I'm doing wrong.  While I type this I'm watching City Homicide streamed from my Beyonwiz S1 in the bedroom to my H1 in the lounge room.  This is streaming over wireless.  I do this every day and night and have been doing so for the last 2 years despite all the supposed "experts" posting on here that it cannot be done.

So c'mon guys - what have I done wrong that wireless streaming works so well in my set up?

[bonehead]

Thanks guys.  Doesn't sound like what I want is on the market.  Swordfish, I'm hearing what you're saying - I was just hoping not to have to buy 2 PVR's if I could avoid it.  From what I now know of the tele I want to get (Panasonic Viera Th-p54v20a) I can hook up an external HDD via USB and record to it.  Since I've got a spare that's probably what I'll do.

From my perspective though, a PVR with DLNA that can stream recorded TV shows to a DLNA compliant tele directly would be fantastic.

[Uncle_Roy]

swordfish805, on Sep 1 2010, 11:43 PM, said:

Gee, I dunno what I'm doing wrong.  While I type this I'm watching City Homicide streamed from my Beyonwiz S1 in the bedroom to my H1 in the lounge room.  This is streaming over wireless.  I do this every day and night and have been doing so for the last 2 years despite all the supposed "experts" posting on here that it cannot be done.

So c'mon guys - what have I done wrong that wireless streaming works so well in my set up?

sounds like you have a very solid setup with no interference whatsoever...good one...my wireless network competes with my wireless security setup, my cordless phone network and 3 wireless networks from neighbours on each side...i should have made it clear in my previous post that it does work, but not stable enough to stream an entire movie without any interruption...if you don't mind the odd pause in your stream then you could get away with it but i don't...have you tried streaming BD .iso's yet?

[pgdownload]

swordfish805, on Sep 1 2010, 11:43 PM, said:

So c'mon guys - what have I done wrong that wireless streaming works so well in my set up?

Nothing You've just been lucky. Streaming is possible, I just say its not recommended. In the majority of households (with different walls and routers and players etc.) stop start streaming is not a very enjoyable way to watch anything (if it works at all). By all means try it out, but I wouldn't be out laying lots of money on a wireless setup that may or may not work.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[diesel]

bonehead, on Sep 2 2010, 08:30 AM, said:

Thanks guys.  Doesn't sound like what I want is on the market.  Swordfish, I'm hearing what you're saying - I was just hoping not to have to buy 2 PVR's if I could avoid it.  From what I now know of the tele I want to get (Panasonic Viera Th-p54v20a) I can hook up an external HDD via USB and record to it.  Since I've got a spare that's probably what I'll do.

From my perspective though, a PVR with DLNA that can stream recorded TV shows to a DLNA compliant tele directly would be fantastic.

What about the newer Panasonic DVD recorders (XW380/XW480 and Bluray recorders BW780/BW880? They have DNLA streaming capabilities, but maybe not over wireless...

[pgdownload]

diesel, on Sep 3 2010, 12:12 AM, said:

What about the newer Panasonic DVD recorders (XW380/XW480 and Bluray recorders BW780/BW880? They have DNLA streaming capabilities, ut maybe not over wireless...

But is that DLNA streaming too the units (ie from a NAS) or are these DVDRs actual DLNA servers themselves? I'd suspect the former.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[myrantz]

bonehead, on Sep 2 2010, 06:30 AM, said:

Thanks guys.  Doesn't sound like what I want is on the market.

I'm using a MythTV computer system to record TVs, and the recordings are streamed to my WDTV Live and TV (DLNA client) via DLNA...

The only real reason for me using DLNA for TV recordings is that it allows the recordings to be sorted by recording date and it's easier to navigate around as I can organise by title, dates, etc.

But one don't really have to use it. Bear in mind with most media players (TV included except mine ) you don't really need DLNA, if your PVR can export it's recording directory using Windows Sharing (or it's linux equivalent Samba/CIFS), and your player supports this, your TV or player should still read it...

Will not be as flexible as DLNA (apparently the Myth Devs may be working on supporting commercial skipping), but it will still work.

[dixitr]

OK, so is there any HD PVR in market, which can be connected to LAN - and then I can browse to shared folders on the PVR to access recordings from my mediaplayers ?

right now I have panasonic dvd/pvr, and only way i can watch recordings in my bedroom is to burn the recordings on to a dvd. now if i suddenly feel like watching lewis upstairs at 10.00pm - it is a bit too much to get out of bed, go downstairs, burn a dvd, wait for it to finish, come back......

all of the rooms in the house are networked - and all tv have a media player hooked in. so a networked pvr would be perfect !!!

[myrantz]

dixitr, on Sep 3 2010, 10:02 AM, said:

OK, so is there any HD PVR in market, which can be connected to LAN - and then I can browse to shared folders on the PVR to access recordings from my mediaplayers ?

Not sure if this may help.. But you can try here...

Or just google and hopefully can find a better database.. The above one is kind of too difficult to use for me..

[pgdownload]

dixitr, on Sep 3 2010, 12:02 PM, said:

OK, so is there any HD PVR in market, which can be connected to LAN - and then I can browse to shared folders on the PVR to access recordings from my mediaplayers ?

Tivos can be networked as can a BeyonWiz with the smaller H1 module. As mentioned should be wired.

You'd possibly find a wireless TV sender (with remote feedback) a better solution than buying a new PVR?

Which on re-reading isn't quite what you're asking for. The answer is almost certainly no, media players can't get direct access to a PVR hard drive. You'd probably only be able to offload files from a harddrive to a NAS or PC and then be able to play them.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[diesel]

pgdownload, on Sep 3 2010, 08:45 AM, said:

But is that DLNA streaming too the units (ie from a NAS) or are these DVDRs actual DLNA servers themselves? I'd suspect the former.

They are DNLA servers to compliant TVs and PCs

pgdownload, on Sep 3 2010, 12:50 PM, said:

Tivos can be networked as can a BeyonWiz with the smaller H1 module. As mentioned should be wired.

For clarity, not just H1's but Beyonwiz units of any model.

[ninkasi]

dixitr, on Sep 3 2010, 12:02 PM, said:

OK, so is there any HD PVR in market, which can be connected to LAN - and then I can browse to shared folders on the PVR to access recordings from my mediaplayers ?

right now I have panasonic dvd/pvr, and only way i can watch recordings in my bedroom is to burn the recordings on to a dvd. now if i suddenly feel like watching lewis upstairs at 10.00pm - it is a bit too much to get out of bed, go downstairs, burn a dvd, wait for it to finish, come back......

all of the rooms in the house are networked - and all tv have a media player hooked in. so a networked pvr would be perfect !!!

The current release of firmware for some (not all) HD Topfields support quad recording (able to record two streams on each tuner from one service eg ABC2 and ABC3). I mention this because they note in the release of this firmware that DLNA support is "coming soon". You don't say what sort of media players you have, but this update (when/if it comes) might do what you want. Just avoid anything that says "freeview" compliant as they will almost certainly prevent access to the files, as well as prevent ad skipping. I also have a mac mini running eye tv - it dumps the streams to a hard drive that is shared on the network - and I can access & play the raw files direct off that using my WDTV Live. I can also set EyeTV to re-encode the recordings and, of course, play them instead albeit with some loss of quality.

Other options might include the likes of mythtv or windows media centre.... or even slingbox

Cheers

Edited by ninkasi, 04 September 2010 - 03:47 PM.

[ylw91]

Uncle_Roy, on Sep 1 2010, 01:49 PM, said:

3. Use an old PC (or your current one) that will automatically ftp the content on your PVR to a folder on your NAS/Media Player and voila, you now have it available to any DLNA player in your network. You can set it up so that only the content on your PVR is syncronised to your NAS and delete stuff on the NAS that was deleted on the PVR,

Can you please advise just which program will do this automatically?
Sounds like a good plan for my 7100 if possible?

Jules

[stockysan]

Any update on this guys, eg news on the Topfield firmware upgrades so they can act as DLNA servers? I would love to be able to stream recorded shows via DLNA from a HD PVR (which I am in the market for) via ethernet to a media player in another room, and would rather not have to set up a NAS just for this purpose. I'd also rather not have to get a MythTV or Windows Media Player, rather buy a unit made to work out of the box by someone more competent than me....

Alternatively, can anyone tell me if the Beyonwiz models or other will stream DLNA to and compliant player, or are they made to only stream to each other (perhaps using their own data stream "format") as the website seems to suggest?

Thanks
Andrew

Edited by stockysan, 23 November 2010 - 12:05 AM.

[pgdownload]

Beyonwiz units only stream to themselves at the moment.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Edited by pgdownload, 23 November 2010 - 08:06 AM.

[Uncle_Roy]

ylw91, on Oct 14 2010, 02:41 PM, said:

Can you please advise just which program will do this automatically?
Sounds like a good plan for my 7100 if possible?

Jules

hey jules....sorry missed your post...i do do this with my 7160 but can do the same with a 7100...

I use an old XP pc with basic setup, connected to the LAN, and I use NetDrive (www.netdrive.net) that maps a windows drive letter via FTP to the root ftp folder on the PVR (including security), then i map another drive letter to my NAS/Media Server, then a simple schedule is created in XP that runs a .bat file every night....in the .bat file is a simple robocopy command that copies the contents from the PVR to the NAS in backup mode so only new content is copied over...

i haven't setup the cleaning of the pvr folders yet but may just run a monthly cleanout of it as we only watch the content from the NAS...

i am sure there are other ways to do this but this way didn't cost me anything...

[prl]

pgdownload, on Nov 23 2010, 09:04 AM, said:

Beyonwiz units only stream to themselves at the moment.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

"Each other", perhaps, rather than "themselves"

[diesel]

prl, on Nov 23 2010, 10:11 AM, said:

"Each other", perhaps, rather than "themselves"

One could argue all PVRs stream to themselves  

[prl]

diesel, on Nov 23 2010, 01:03 PM, said:

One could argue all PVRs stream to themselves  

The danger in them streaming to themselves is that /dev/null might fill up.  You don't want to be there when the bit bucket overflows.

Edited by prl, 23 November 2010 - 12:16 PM.

[stockysan]

Anyone got the lowdown on :

-Which PVRs will share their recording directories (and in a format a typical PC or media player can use, over ethernet)

-How the Topfield firmware update is coming along to get them acting as DLNA servers?

-Any other PVRs coming out with DNLA server function for recorded shows?

Thanks in advance.
Andrew

Edited by stockysan, 24 November 2010 - 10:17 PM.

[pgdownload]

I think the answer is largely none (in a streaming sense), unknown, unknown.

If you want to stream FTA recordings around a house I'd suggest you're much better off setting up a cheap HTPC that records them direct to a PC harddrive and can handle conversion and distribution quite easily.

Regards

Peter Gillespie