129 replies to this topic

[myrantz]

DrP, on Oct 9 2010, 11:22 AM, said:

I don't use mythtv, but given that the linux DVB side works correctly I can't see any reason why mythtv shouldn't work.

Above issue?  Do you mean the glitching problem some people have experienced?  I don't have that problem under Windows so I wouldn't expect it under linux.  Simultaneously dumping each tuner's output to a file via the command line produces clean recordings.

Cool.. Thanks for that.

[DrP]

Out of curiosity, people that have been experiencing glitching problems and get some of their services on UHF and some on VHF - have the glitches been predominantly on UHF or does it affect UHF and VHF equally?

[dJOS]

DrP, on Oct 10 2010, 08:58 AM, said:

Out of curiosity, people that have been experiencing glitching problems and get some of their services on UHF and some on VHF - have the glitches been predominantly on UHF or does it affect UHF and VHF equally?

I'm in Adelaide Metro an have no idea what band is used.   All my other DNTV gear works fine which Is why I think it's either a dud or a design flaw. (DigitalNow have agree to refund me seeing as we own 2 TiVo's now)

[M'bozo]

renura, on Oct 8 2010, 10:06 AM, said:

Firstly let me say that there is no doubt that you need a good quality signal for this card, the desirable signal level should be around 55dbuv.

In general I do not recommend amplifiers with any cards, let alone this one. Just remember you are feeding 4 tuners with one antenna.

I'm curious: does the card amplify & split the signal to the 4 receivers? If it is a straight split without amplification, then 55dBµV would seem a tad low.

(Any work I do involving tuner cards I aim for 70dBµV, (if this requires the use of an appropriate amplifier, so be it) to hopefully overcome interference issues generated within the computer itself, quite apart from the other non-controlled issues of consumers installing/connecting their own TV reception apparatus. )

dJOS, on Oct 10 2010, 11:25 AM, said:

I'm in Adelaide Metro an have no idea what band is used.  

That's the response, in the main, I would have expected to the question posed. I think I can see why the question was asked.

But, as you say, it's not an issue for you now.

I would have asked: If you are in a mainland capital city, do you have more success recording SBS (or C31 if it is digital) compared to other digital channels?

(The presumption, here, of course, that your reception is not derived from a UHF gap filler)

Edited by M'bozo, 10 October 2010 - 11:54 AM.

[DrP]

At the moment my UHF/VHF reception is a bit imbalanced due to rampant greenery (welcome to tropical QLD).  Post distribution amp with splitters disconnected so its a direct drop to my PC VHF is ~86dbuv, UHF ~70dbuv.  Under those signal conditions the Quad can not provide reliable UHF reception (quality plummets to 10% suggesting overload) but VHF is rock solid.

Knocking it down so that UHF is ~60dbuv brings UHF reception back to normalcy with the Quad.  At 48dbuv it is still quite happy.  If its fed with the recommended signal levels it should provide reliable operation.

I have a Compro U80 stick* that behaves in a similar fashion.  It gives up at around 45dbuv, but the Quad is still working at that level.  Where the Quad calls its quits is not known, I can't go much below these levels because I don't have enough attenuators.

The Quad uses Fitipower FC0012 tuners while the Compro uses Quantek QT1010.  Both tuners are under the control of the realtek demods in terms of signal levels / agc so its possible that the realtek demods aren't controlling the signal levels in a sensible fashion.

If the there was software that would let me peer inside and see what the RTL chips thought of the signal at various levels rather than simply relying on go / no go more accurate reception ranges could be provided.

Signal levels are as reported by my hand held meter.



_{*the Quad uses RTL2832, the U80 RTL2831}

Edited by DrP, 10 October 2010 - 02:03 PM.

[renura]

dJOS, on Oct 10 2010, 11:25 AM, said:

I'm in Adelaide Metro an have no idea what band is used.   All my other DNTV gear works fine which Is why I think it's either a dud or a design flaw. (DigitalNow have agree to refund me seeing as we own 2 TiVo's now)

There is no design flaw - it is either your signal level not being good enough for the Quad or some other issue - it is possible of course that the card is faulty, we sold a very large number in just one week, so you might find a couple that are being reported as faulty in a very short period of time, I guess.

It is not appropriate to compare a four tuner device with a two tuner one, in any case.

[renura]

DrP, on Oct 10 2010, 02:08 PM, said:

If the there was software that would let me peer inside and see what the RTL chips thought of the signal at various levels rather than simply relying on go / no go more accurate reception ranges could be provided.

We will have a look at the feasibility/possibility of developing such a tool.

[texass44]

ok....just to get back to dJOS.

On the weekend, I scheduled 5 simulataneous recordings.  4 on the Quad and one on my older LP card.  I have one RF input to the LP, then using RF passthrough to the quad.

Recordings were on channels 2,7,9,10,SBS std def channels.

All recordings were perfect, no breakups or dropouts during playback using DNTVLive.

I know this doesn't help/slove your issue but for me the Quad works perfectly.

Cheers......Tex.

[dJOS]

I tried boosting the signal it didn't help - the media center has now been relegated to the study and is now a secondary media device in our house (the 2 Tivo's have taken over) - thankfully we have the 2 xbox 360's which run as media-center extenders so it's not entirely been retired (it's only running the 1 Dual Hybrid S2 Tuner Card now).

Edited by dJOS, 11 October 2010 - 09:30 AM.

[DrP]

Given the sensitivity of the Quad (at least the Quad I have for testing) its highly unlikely that you don't have enough signal.  Its more likely that, for UHF at least, you have too much signal.  If you had access to a proper digital TV signal meter it would become fairly apparent if this was the case or not.

[jasoroony]

DrP, on Oct 11 2010, 09:23 AM, said:

Given the sensitivity of the Quad (at least the Quad I have for testing) its highly unlikely that you don't have enough signal.  Its more likely that, for UHF at least, you have too much signal.  If you had access to a proper digital TV signal meter it would become fairly apparent if this was the case or not.

I recall numerous posters saying, using 1 tuner on the card was very good, using 2 tuners was starting to get bad, 3 tuners was really bad and 4 tuners was unwatchable.  It would seem that too much signal, even if only in the UHF range, would result in a different symptom, wouldn't you say, DrP?

(I assume, of course, using one tuner alone worked OK for all channels - since they scanned in the networks that way.)

(Edit: Just thought, unless it needs some sheilding between those chips on the board.)

Edited by jasoroony, 11 October 2010 - 11:34 AM.

[dJOS]

jasoroony, on Oct 11 2010, 11:37 AM, said:

I recall numerous posters saying, using 1 tuner on the card was very good, using 2 tuners was starting to get bad, 3 tuners was really bad and 4 tuners was unwatchable.  It would seem that too much signal, even if only in the UHF range, would result in a different symptom, wouldn't you say, DrP?

(I assume, of course, using one tuner alone worked OK for all channels - since they scanned in the networks that way.)

(Edit: Just thought, unless it needs some sheilding between those chips on the board.)

That's exactly right, with a single tuner operating the card was flawless with perfect PQ and very fast channel changes, add more tuners into the mix and that's when things went down hill.

[DrP]

That's why I asked the question about what channels were having problems and which were UHF and which were VHF.  Unfortunately exact answers as to what is being recorded and the bands its being transmitted on have not been provided so exactly what is going on is a bit of a guess.  If dJOS is prepared to do some testing, as well as revealing what frequencies he is receiving on, it may reveal useful information.

Channel scanning is not necessarily an indicator of things working properly or not.  There can be a fair amount of bad packets coming through but enough good ones to determine what services are present given the rate at which some of the DVB tables are transmitted.

I can only speak from my own experiences with the Quad.  When fed with appropriate level signals all four tuners produce reliable clean reception at the same time for as long as one desires to continue recording.

Edited by DrP, 11 October 2010 - 11:59 AM.

[renura]

jasoroony, on Oct 11 2010, 12:07 PM, said:

I recall numerous posters saying, using 1 tuner on the card was very good, using 2 tuners was starting to get bad, 3 tuners was really bad and 4 tuners was unwatchable.  It would seem that too much signal, even if only in the UHF range, would result in a different symptom, wouldn't you say, DrP?

(I assume, of course, using one tuner alone worked OK for all channels - since they scanned in the networks that way.)

(Edit: Just thought, unless it needs some sheilding between those chips on the board.)

Hi Jason,

Not sure where you have seen these numerous posters?

Instead of speculating, why don't you buy one and try it for yourself? (once we get new stock of course as the first production run has already been sold out )

This card has been subjected to extensive field and lab tests and and has performed perfectly over the last 4 months.

No doubt there will be faulty ones, no doubt there will be situations where the signal is not good enough for it, no doubt there will be systems where it may incur conflicts or compatibility issues for whatever reason - BUT whats new about that?
You yourself consider the S2 card a good one, you will find some people around that will disagree with you, similarly you think the original TinyTwin was not good enough - You will find MANY thousands that consider it the best thing since sliced bread.

We offer everyone the opportunity to return any product that they are not happy with, no questions asked, so if you buy one and are not happy with it or does not suit your situation or your wife has cold feet and wants to buy a TiVo, no problem at all, return it and we will give you a refund.

Cheers

Renura

[jasoroony]

renura, on Oct 11 2010, 12:01 PM, said:

Hi Jason,

Not sure where you have seen these numerous posters?

Instead of speculating, why don't you buy one and try it for yourself? (once we get new stock of course as the first production run has already been sold out )

This card has been subjected to extensive field and lab tests and and has performed perfectly over the last 4 months.

No doubt there will be faulty ones, no doubt there will be situations where the signal is not good enough for it, no doubt there will be systems may incur conflicts or compatibility issues for whatever reason - BUT whats new about that?
You yourself consider the S2 card a good one, you will find some people around that will disagree with you, similarly you think the original TinyTwin was not good enough - You will find MANY thousands that consider it the best thing since sliced bread.

We offer everyone the opportunity to return any product that they are not happy with, no questions asked, so if you buy one and are not happy with it or does not suit your situation or your wife has cold feet and wants to buy a TiVo, no problem at all, return it and we will give you a refund.

Cheers

Renura

Two pages back, actually.  I'm aware also of the limitations of the S2, and I agree it has problems - they just don't effect me (I don't use sleep or 4GB of ram.)

Also, thanks for the offer of trying another one of your products, but as I wrote earlier, I'll probably stick to the KWorld 399U dual USB - it works well and it's better value at $69, IMHO.

[dJOS]

DrP, on Oct 11 2010, 12:26 PM, said:

That's why I asked the question about what channels were having problems and which were UHF and which were VHF.

All of them where affected, it wasn't selective.

2, 7, 9 and 10 broadcast as VHF, SBS is UHF.

DrP, on Oct 11 2010, 12:26 PM, said:

If dJOS is prepared to do some testing, as well as revealing what frequencies he is receiving on, it may reveal useful information.

Channel scanning is not necessarily an indicator of things working properly or not.  There can be a fair amount of bad packets coming through but enough good ones to determine what services are present given the rate at which some of the DVB tables are transmitted.

I can only speak from my own experiences with the Quad.  When fed with appropriate level signals all four tuners produce reliable clean reception at the same time for as long as one desires to continue recording.

Not possible, the Quad is in the mail on it's way back to Renura.

I would suggest I have the appropriate signal levels as I have 2 Tivo's & a Sony Bravia operating perfectly from the same antenna and prior to that had 2x Dual hybrids + the Sony Bravia operating perfectly from the same antenna (my Pioneer Plasma is a monitor and does not have a tuner).

Edited by dJOS, 11 October 2010 - 12:17 PM.

[renura]

jasoroony, on Oct 11 2010, 01:10 PM, said:

Two pages back, actually.  I'm aware also of the limitations of the S2, and I agree it has problems - they just don't effect me (I don't use sleep or 4GB of ram.)

Also, thanks for the offer of trying another one of your products, but as I wrote earlier, I'll probably stick to the KWorld 399U dual USB - it works well and it's better value at $69, IMHO.

No problem at all then, good luck to you. Even the KW TT (copied over our original one is not a bad device)

[DrP]

Are you prepared to do some simple command line tests to see if your Quad is capable of producing clean data streams with all four tuners running concurrently?

You will need to know the centre frequencies for the transmissions in your area, which should be easily revealed by looking at the channel configuration in the software you are using to view / record when you experienced the problem.

You will also need to download a copy of dvpiper and install it (unzip it then run install.bat to register its ds filter).



Forget it.  Patience is a virtue, lost.

If one of the other people that have had reception issues still have their card and would like to try a little troubleshooting please state so.  It's only a few minutes worth of effort.

Edited by DrP, 11 October 2010 - 12:24 PM.

[jasoroony]

renura, on Oct 11 2010, 12:17 PM, said:

No problem at all then, good luck to you. Even the KW TT (copied over our original one is not a bad device)

And to you!  BTW: What part did KW copy?  From the look of that Afatech webpage I found 3 years ago - it all looked like an off the shelf product with working reference designs.

[renura]

jasoroony, on Oct 11 2010, 01:31 PM, said:

And to you!  BTW: What part did KW copy?  From the look of that Afatech webpage I found 3 years ago - it all looked like an off the shelf product with working reference designs.

Not at all, the Original Tinytwin was designed by Twinhan engineers (and us), a few of these Engineers then moved to Afatech (now ITE) KW introduced the TT around 2 years later, and then many others.
For the record, and since you appear to be interested in this stuff, why don't you do some research and find out which other company has the Quad card (reference design or not) and post it here, so in 4/5 years time when others have copied it we will know for sure where the device originated.

[jasoroony]

renura, on Oct 11 2010, 12:40 PM, said:

Not at all, the Original Tinytwin was designed by Twinhan engineers (and us), a few of these Engineers then moved to Afatech (now ITE) KW introduced the TT around 2 years later, and then many others.
For the record, and since you appear to be interested in this stuff, why don't you do some research and find out which other company has the Quad card (reference design or not) and post it here, so in 4/5 years time when others have copied it we will know for sure where the device originated.

Hmmm, sounds like sour-grapes to me.  Maybe rather than saying KW copied your device, you should say Afatech did the dirty on us - and were doing so for 2 years before KW got involved.  But I'm not as interested as you might think.

[renura]

jasoroony, on Oct 11 2010, 02:10 PM, said:

But I'm not as interested as you might think.

Let's give it a rest then

[Azz123]

On a happier note So far, so good...

Mine arrived Thursday last week so I spent the weekend installing Win 7/64 replacing Vista 64 and 2 Hauppauge Nova T500's. I use MCE and Ice for recording and playback.

I can record four channels at once without stutter, skips or bleeps except for ABC2. Seeing as it's only one channel and it doesnt matter if I'm recording it solo or as part of 4 at once, I'd say I have a reception issue with that channel.

Much improved over the T500's as they were giving me stutters on recorded and watching live material on 9HD and 10SD.

Bang for buck, I rate it!

[renura]

Hi Guys,

One of our customers has modified the Linux driver code and has written a short guide that should assist those interested in getting the Quad to work under Linux.

I have not tried this and unlikely to do so for several weeks, but if anyone wants to try, you can download what you need from here

Merry Christmas

Renura

[myrantz]

renura, on Dec 22 2010, 02:01 PM, said:

One of our customers has modified the Linux driver code and has written a short guide that should assist those interested in getting the Quad to work under Linux.

Forgot about this

Just noticed something on ur website:   closed from 23 December 2010 to 18 January 2011...
that's a long holiday *envy* ...

Somebody try it and report back..

I can wait (still need to move my MythTV to GIT, and still can't get win32 MythTV to compile properly in my virtual machine)..  Need to fix my MythTV first before I can even get this card...

In the meantime, enjoy the loooooooong holiday...