59 replies to this topic

[webbiegareth]

Do any of you guys service the Melton (west vic) area? I have large issues with glitching due to possible impulse noise, that I really want to have looked at by a professional, and not the guys in the back of the local paper.

Also I woke up this morning to find the glitching going NUTS, so I went outside... and my antenna is now pointing in the wrong direction thanks to the crazy winds today. I guess the guy who installed it didn't secure it properly, as everyone else's antenna is still pointing in the right direction!

I don't have a big enough ladder to safely climb up onto the roof.... heeeelp

Edited by webbiegareth, 10 July 2010 - 03:57 PM.

[webbiegareth]

Well.... I haven't had any response, so.... what do people recommend? Just call Jim's Antenna's or something?

[debruis]

webbiegareth, on Jul 10 2010, 02:00 PM, said:

Do any of you guys service the Melton (west vic) area? I have large issues with glitching due to possible impulse noise, that I really want to have looked at by a professional, and not the guys in the back of the local paper.

Also I woke up this morning to find the glitching going NUTS, so I went outside... and my antenna is now pointing in the wrong direction thanks to the crazy winds today. I guess the guy who installed it didn't secure it properly, as everyone else's antenna is still pointing in the right direction!

I don't have a big enough ladder to safely climb up onto the roof.... heeeelp

Try www.digitalready.gov.au and go to the section How do I switch and scroll down the page to antenna installer.Hopefully you will find someone in your area. If you cant Jim's antennas should be OK.

[mtv]

I usually don't work west Melb, but if you get stuck... I can probably help.

[bellotv]

mtv, on Jul 17 2010, 09:12 PM, said:

I usually don't work west Melb, but if you get stuck... I can probably help.

I would recommend this choice .Send him a PM,he knows his stuff .

Edited by bellotv, 17 July 2010 - 09:23 PM.

[webbiegareth]

bellotv, on Jul 17 2010, 09:19 PM, said:

I would recommend this choice .Send him a PM,he knows his stuff .

If he doesn't service the area normally though, I don't want to waste too much of his time... that said though, Melton is a flat 30 minute drive from Melbourne CBD, thanks to the new highway extensions (Western Ring Road -> Deer Park Bypass -> Western Freeway). I'm happy to pay the travel time if he thinks he can fix the impulse noise problem!

(The immediate issue is I need the antenna at least pointing in the right direction though... I'm sure someone local could do that, but I would rather have a pro who knows what he's talking about come fix this once and for all).

[webbiegareth]

Well I'll give up soon, I'm starting to run out of options... (I have one more up my sleeve though!).

I ended up calling Jim's, and the guy who came out seemed to know his stuff, and had a lot of gear and was able to work out that (a) the antenna I have isn't strong enough for the area), and ( it wasn't mounted in the right spot. He wandered around the roof, and found he was able to increase the strength by 6db by moving it further along the house, and a bit higher up.

He also found the gain on the masthead amp was up waaaay too high.

I spent a couple of hundred dollars getting a "better" antenna installed (well he said it was better, a DC21A I think it is), on a much stronger mast as well... I saw the before & after results on his gear, and there was definitely a big improvement. He was very happy with the result.  He also moved the power injector into the roof itself... which means it'll be easier later on to add extra coax around the house.

He did the work on a nice warm day, and basically - he fixed it. For the rest of the day I didn't get ANY glitching, and I even put the washing machine on ..... nothing! It was perfect!

Queue two days later... and BAM, it's back to how it was again. Lots of glitching with the washing machine on, and random glitching.

This is ridiculous... and it doesn't make any sense. How can it work perfect for a couple of days then return back to how it was?

Now that the injector's in the roof, I will buy 20M of decent quad shield coax, crimp on some F-connectors and run it along the floor from the TV (via the manhole) to the injector.... basically, keeping it right away from all power lines... that'll at least show if it's the current cabling in the wall that's causing the problem.

Other than that, I'm all out of ideas.

Edited by webbiegareth, 16 August 2010 - 03:14 PM.

[bellotv]

webbiegareth, on Aug 16 2010, 03:01 PM, said:

Well I'll give up soon, I'm starting to run out of options... (I have one more up my sleeve though!).

I ended up calling Jim's, and the guy who came out seemed to know his stuff, and had a lot of gear and was able to work out that (a) the antenna I have isn't strong enough for the area), and ( it wasn't mounted in the right spot. He wandered around the roof, and found he was able to increase the strength by 6db by moving it further along the house, and a bit higher up.

He also found the gain on the masthead amp was up waaaay too high.

I spent a couple of hundred dollars getting a "better" antenna installed (well he said it was better, a DC21A I think it is), on a much stronger mast as well... I saw the before & after results on his gear, and there was definitely a big improvement. He was very happy with the result.  He also moved the power injector into the roof itself... which means it'll be easier later on to add extra coax around the house.

He did the work on a nice warm day, and basically - he fixed it. For the rest of the day I didn't get ANY glitching, and I even put the washing machine on ..... nothing! It was perfect!

Queue two days later... and BAM, it's back to how it was again. Lots of glitching with the washing machine on, and random glitching.

This is ridiculous... and it doesn't make any sense. How can it work perfect for a couple of days then return back to how it was?

Now that the injector's in the roof, I will buy 20M of decent quad shield coax, crimp on some F-connectors and run it along the floor from the TV (via the manhole) to the injector.... basically, keeping it right away from all power lines... that'll at least show if it's the current cabling in the wall that's causing the problem.

Other than that, I'm all out of ideas.

This probably isn't going to help but I am curious why he put the power injector in the roof ?

It makes no difference as far as making it easier to run extra outlets whether the injector is in the roof or plugged into the nominated wall outlet .

Questions : Did he replace the coax in the wall with new quad shield or is it the original ?
                And is the wall socket original ? and the connections to it ?
                What about ALL the flyleads ,are they quadsheild with crimped on plugs ?

Have a listen on an AM radio ( tuned to a " spare gap" between channels ) and see it you can hear the clicks and static that are corresponding to the "glitching" on the TV .Is it worse on the days the TV glitches? Perhaps there is external noise from say arcing powerline insulators .Take the tranny outside and have a wander around.


There is an installer called Brendon Holmes .His business is called Screen Antennas .There's not much Brendon can't fix.Just not sure if he goes to Weeribee

Edited by bellotv, 16 August 2010 - 06:31 PM.

[webbiegareth]

bellotv, on Aug 16 2010, 06:28 PM, said:

Questions : Did he replace the coax in the wall with new quad shield or is it the original ?
                And is the wall socket original ? and the connections to it ?
                What about ALL the flyleads ,are they quadsheild with crimped on plugs ?

Firstly - he wanted to try putting the power injector into the roof in case that was causing the problem (it was plugged in with all my computer gear), so now it's kept far away from everything else.

To answer your other questions:

The coax in the wall is the original that the builder installed - some quad shielded cable, probably a cheaper brand though (knowing the builder!). There's no "normal" wall-plate, the cable in the wall goes through a bull-nose wallplate to a small 2-way splitter. Everything is using F-connectors, and all flyleads are quad shielded as well. I have those PAL-to-F-type adapters where the cable actually hooks up to the TV tuners.

So basically - it goes:

Antenna -> Masthead amp -> Coax -> Power Injector ->  Coax -> through wall to 2-way splitter -> to two TV tuners.

(each of the TV tuners is a dual tuner... so I effectively have 4 HDTV tuners).

After work I picked up some new quad-shielded coax, crimped on some F connectors and climbed into the roof... I connected the new cable from the power injector, then down to the 2-way splitter, bypassing the builder's coax cabling in the wall.

Same result.... glitching. Yikes!!!

I will try the AM radio trick soon....

I'm in Melton, in a new estate, if that makes any difference.

Edited by webbiegareth, 16 August 2010 - 08:16 PM.

[M'bozo]

webbiegareth, on Aug 16 2010, 03:31 PM, said:

He also found the gain on the masthead amp was up waaaay too high.

I'm no expert when it comes to your area, however, I find that comment ........: interesting  

Edited by M'bozo, 16 August 2010 - 08:16 PM.

[bellotv]

Out of interest,do you know what masthead amp you have?  If you can't reach it, what color is the case of it ?

[webbiegareth]

bellotv, on Aug 16 2010, 08:29 PM, said:

Out of interest,do you know what masthead amp you have?  If you can't reach it, what color is the case of it ?

It's a Kingray, I don't know the actual model number though.

In terms of it being up too high... well, basically - he was saying the original signal quality was good, but not that good.... so the amp was cranked up way too high for that level of signal quality. I remember him showing me his signal gear, showing me the waveform - it was definitely right up there. (basically the peaks were hitting the ceiling and going flat, if that makes sense).

With the newer antenna, he only put up the gain a little bit to strengthen the signal.

He said that really I didn't need a masthead amplifier, but since I have the two dual-tuners, to play it safe he'll leave it there, but only have it boosting the signal slightly (enough to allow for signal loss of the coaxs from the amp to the tuners).

[webbiegareth]

I'm about to give up soon... there don't appear to be any decent antenna installers who do work in my area.

The OCD in me is being driven nuts! I was watching hey-hey-it's-saturday last night, and getting the usual random glitching and audio chirping again. If I flick the light switch in the lounge room on & off, that'll glitch the TV image too.

It's funny as I have been on holidays for the past two weeks, in a tiny remote town in the middle of nowhere and I got better reception there than I do here...

We need some good installers in this area it seems If anyone ever comes out this way... heeeeelp!

Edited by webbiegareth, 17 October 2010 - 10:16 AM.

[debruis]

webbiegareth, on Oct 17 2010, 10:49 AM, said:

I'm about to give up soon... there don't appear to be any decent antenna installers who do work in my area.

The OCD in me is being driven nuts! I was watching hey-hey-it's-saturday last night, and getting the usual random glitching and audio chirping again.

It's funny as I have been on holidays for the past two weeks, in a tiny remote town in the middle of nowhere and I got better reception there than I do here...

We need some good installers in this area it seems If anyone ever comes out this way... heeeeelp!

What type of PCI cards are they and did the installer leave you any signal level readings? Are the PCs and the washing machine on the same power circuit? Is the power injector power supply on the same circuit as the washing machine? Maybe the injector's power supply is faulty or sensing the arc when the motor switches in the washing machine? The fault may not appear until a couple of days after being switch back on. I hope this helps

Edited by debruis, 17 October 2010 - 10:16 AM.

[webbiegareth]

debruis, on Oct 17 2010, 11:15 AM, said:

What type of PCI cards are they and did the installer leave you any signal level readings? Are the PCs and the washing machine on the same power circuit? Is the power injector power supply on the same circuit as the washing machine? Maybe the injector's power supply is faulty or sensing the arc when the motor switches in the washing machine? The fault may not appear until a couple of days after being switch back on. I hope this helps

He didn't leave any signal level readings... he only showed me his device, both before he started playing (saying it was a pretty average signal), and then the "finished" result. Should I get him back to retest in case the signal went bad afterwards?

The injector was placed into the roof... but after it started showing glitches again, I moved it back into the lounge room (reason being, I didn't have a power point in the roof, he unplugged the toilet ceiling fan to connect it! I needed to get an electrian in to add the extra power point, which I was fine in doing if it actually fixed the problem!). Once the glitches started to appear again I went into the roof and removed the injector... and put it back into the lounge room (plugged it into the same power board as the TV).

The washing machine is on a different circuit to the lounge room (found that out the hard way when I tripped the circuit by accident.... the lounge room and kitchen area went out, but the washing machine and lights were still on haha).

Oh and the glitches happen with the coax plugged in straight to the TV (instead of the computer), so it doesn't matter if it's the TV tuner in the PC, or the TV itself, it's the same result.

EDIT - I have just made a video showing the problem. I put the Sony LCD onto it's signal strength screen, and flicking the light switch on & off shows the strength temporarily drop from "HIGH" to "GOOD", with the post-error rate increasing.

Edited by webbiegareth, 17 October 2010 - 11:45 AM.

[webbiegareth]

Here you go....



Any professionals think they can fix this, be my guest...

Edited by webbiegareth, 17 October 2010 - 11:57 AM.

[debruis]

webbiegareth, on Oct 17 2010, 12:10 PM, said:

He didn't leave any signal level readings... he only showed me his device, both before he started playing (saying it was a pretty average signal), and then the "finished" result. Should I get him back to retest in case the signal went bad afterwards?

The injector was placed into the roof... but after it started showing glitches again, I moved it back into the lounge room (reason being, I didn't have a power point in the roof, he unplugged the toilet ceiling fan to connect it! I needed to get an electrian in to add the extra power point, which I was fine in doing if it actually fixed the problem!). Once the glitches started to appear again I went into the roof and removed the injector... and put it back into the lounge room (plugged it into the same power board as the TV).

The washing machine is on a different circuit to the lounge room (found that out the hard way when I tripped the circuit by accident.... the lounge room and kitchen area went out, but the washing machine and lights were still on haha).

Oh and the glitches happen with the coax plugged in straight to the TV (instead of the computer), so it doesn't matter if it's the TV tuner in the PC, or the TV itself, it's the same result.

EDIT - I have just made a video showing the problem. I put the Sony LCD onto it's signal strength screen, and flicking the light switch on & off shows the strength temporarily drop from "HIGH" to "GOOD", with the post-error rate increasing.

Sound like signal level is too low. Have you tried changing the injector's power supply?

[webbiegareth]

debruis, on Oct 17 2010, 01:08 PM, said:

Sound like signal level is too low. Have you tried changing the injector's power supply?

Yep! The original injector was a Kingray PAL-connector type, he put on the adapters for it (and said it'd be OK to use)... after the glitches reappared I picked up a Kingray F-connector type to replace it.

[debruis]

webbiegareth, on Oct 17 2010, 01:11 PM, said:

Yep! The original injector was a Kingray PAL-connector type, he put on the adapters for it (and said it'd be OK to use)... after the glitches reappared I picked up a Kingray F-connector type to replace it.

May sound like a silly question but what tower are you trying to receive signal from?

Edited by debruis, 17 October 2010 - 12:19 PM.

[webbiegareth]

debruis, on Oct 17 2010, 01:18 PM, said:

May sound like a silly question but what tower are you trying to receive signal from?

To be honest I have no idea, but I think it's Dandenong? All the antennas in the area point in the same direction (including mine, so I'm not doing anything different to anyone else in Melton at least).

I was chatting with a mate from work who also lives in Melton (but on the other side), he says his ABC reception is so bad (constantly glitching and losing signal) he doesn't even watch free-to-air TV over the antenna anymore anymore, and he has satellite Pay TV instead. Surely it can't be that bad here, or are we just lacking decent installers?

Edited by webbiegareth, 17 October 2010 - 12:31 PM.

[debruis]

webbiegareth, on Oct 17 2010, 01:30 PM, said:

To be honest I have no idea, but I think it's Dandenong? All the antennas in the area point in the same direction (including mine, so I'm not doing anything different to anyone else in Melton at least).

I was chatting with a mate from work who also lives in Melton (but on the other side), he says his ABC reception is so bad (constantly glitching and losing signal) he doesn't even watch free-to-air TV over the antenna anymore anymore, and he has satellite Pay TV instead. Surely it can't be that bad here, or are we just lacking decent installers?

I think it may be an installer problem. Email me directly and I we can try and work this out.

[webbiegareth]

debruis, on Oct 17 2010, 01:35 PM, said:

I think it may be an installer problem. Email me directly and I we can try and work this out.

I'll send an email shortly.

I was just outside taking some pics of the antenna, it looks like mine is pointing to a slightly different angle (a couple of degrees) to the antennas on my neighbouring houses... perhaps it came loose slightly and moved a bit? But it's very very hard to tell, it could just be from the angle I'm standing.

Here are some pics of my antenna setup:

http://img257.images...i/img0447w.jpg/

http://img267.images...i/img0449k.jpg/

I found I had kept the little installation manual for the amp as well, it's a "Kingray MHW24FE/FSE", and I use a PSK08F power injector.

Edited by webbiegareth, 17 October 2010 - 02:35 PM.

[webbiegareth]

I still haven't sent that email! I'll do that tonight

I called up the local Jim's Antenna (the guy who swapped over the antenna recently), thankfully he still remembered me and he was sure my signal was fine.

He had the feeling I have something wrong with my mains power, a bad earth or something.... he wanted me to tune in analogue on my TV, and see how good the picture was. He said abc would be bad (because of the antenna he used), but all other channels would be perfect.

If the other channels are bad, then there'd be a problem with the antenna (etc), but if they're perfect, then it points to something else.

So I tried it... and he was right, abc was bad but all other channels were perfect (well, for analogue!). However, I tried the "turn the light switch on and off trick". On the analogue channels, whenever I flick the light switch, I get little white dots over the screen for a split second.

So there's definitely something bad going on somewhere.... but finding out what it is, is the hard bit.

[M'bozo]

Should be a service warranty on the work done.

I'd be getting the contractor back to sort it.

It's what I expect my customers to do if there is an issue.

It's always possible something else has gone screwy.

(Your video shows UEC errors on the Sony when the light switch is flicked. That's not good. Be interested to know if the same thing happens on SBS digital (or C31 digital, if you can get it.) UHF is less affected by impulse noise.)

Edited by M'bozo, 19 October 2010 - 09:45 AM.

[webbiegareth]

M'bozo, on Oct 18 2010, 10:22 PM, said:

Should be a service warranty on the work done.

I'd be getting the contractor back to sort it.

It's what I expect my customers to do if there is an issue.

It's always possible something else has gone screwy.

(Your video shows UEC errors on the Sony when the light switch is flicked. That's not good. Be interested to know if the same thing happens on SBS digital (or C31 digital, if you can get it.) UHF is less affected by impulse noise.)

I'll try again tonight, this time with SBS digital and C31 digital.... and report back later tonight. I got a call this morning from Jim's Antenna, he wanted to know the outcome of the "analogue tune test" he asked about yesterday.... when I told him the results (picture quality fine for all channels apart from ABC, and the white dots on the picture when I flick the light switch)...  he's convinced it's an electrical fault (probably a grounding issue he said) and that I needed to get an electrician in to take a look and he'll come in after that if needed, possibly to ground the splitter he said if the electrician couldn't fix it.

All I know is that the lights are on a different circuit to the home theatre gear, and the washing machine is on another circuit as well... but both the lights and the washing machine (and probably everything else, since I get random glitches) interfere with my reception.

Thankfully as part of the 3 month maintenance warranty I had already requested the builders bring back the electrician, so I'll get them to take a look ASAP to see if that really is the cause.