649 replies to this topic

[Smacca]

alanh, on Jan 5 2010, 07:46 PM, said:

Smacca,
It will not exceed that of city dwellers it will give the same range.
The only thing not included in the announcement is the fate of community TV which only exists in Mainland capital cities and Lismore NSW.
Nothing is also mentioned about the current Indigenous satellite network. I assume it will continue on as at present because the signals are already digital like all other satellite transmissions.

AlanH

What I'm trying to ask is, what is the fate of GWN and WIN's current proposal to launch digital services on one shared frequency? I haven't seen anything mentioned in this latest media release, and the networks haven't said anything. As far as I can tell, only the self-help transmitters will benefit. Is there anything concrete out there that confirms that digital terrestrial services will match that of Freeview Satellite?

[Smacca]

jrickta, on Jan 5 2010, 07:04 PM, said:

I wonder which satellite they are going to broadcast the downlink from?

I reckon Optus C1. Since Optus D3 launched, a bunch of vertical transponders have become available on there. Aurora services are also on vertical, so it makes sense to continue using that polarity.

[GoForMoe]

Smacca, on Jan 5 2010, 08:50 PM, said:

What I'm trying to ask is, what is the fate of GWN and WIN's current proposal to launch digital services on one shared frequency? I haven't seen anything mentioned in this latest media release, and the networks haven't said anything. As far as I can tell, only the self-help transmitters will benefit. Is there anything concrete out there that confirms that digital terrestrial services will match that of Freeview Satellite?

Indeed, the government is promising something that can't be delivered terrestrially to sattelite viewers. Unless WA is excluded under the idea that they already have Aurora and that this will just cover the eastern and south states.

[davmel]

alanh, on Jan 5 2010, 04:26 PM, said:

Since this is a new service what's the bet that the transmission standard is DVB-S2 which includes HD MPEG-4 compression to keep the satellite costs down!
Now they can have the same transmission system as Foxtel

It's unlikely that the SD channels will be on DVB-S transponders as the service will re-use what Foxtel already transmits (e.g. 12052 V) but the channels will be multicrypted with Irdeto2 for blackspot customers. Don't forget that many people will just reuse or purchase SD only boxes that don't support DVB-S2 signals.
The HD channels however will likely be grouped together on DVB-S2 transponders and almost certainly H.264 encoded.

[davmel]

jrickta, on Jan 5 2010, 08:04 PM, said:

I wonder which satellite they are going to broadcast the downlink from?

It will be the combined C1/D3 platform using the bountiful unused vertical transponders that both sats now have. No other sat has the capacity.

According to the press release today all that needs to be transmitted are the capital city digital broadcasts that Foxtel will use on their platform as well and a number of low bandwidth news channels streams for each local area.

[GoForMoe]

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According to the press release today all that needs to be transmitted are the capital city digital broadcasts that Foxtel will use on their platform as well and a number of low bandwidth news channels streams for each local area.

Which breaks many laws about licence areas, and I can't see regional broadcasters agreeing to this.

[alanh]

Davmel,
Viewers will not wish to have a pair of dishes to get the most reliable signals in wet weather.
I doubt that the Commonwealth Govt will want to pay 50 % more to keep using DVB-S instead of using DVB-S2 for the SD programs as well.

To have separate dishes and receivers for SD and HD programs is very expensive. It may be in the future that the simulcasting of SD and HD will stop so 2 receiver dishes and receivers will be required to see all programs even if you only have an SD display. SD displays are not on sale anymore except in very small screen sizes.

The Analog switchoff includes remote therefore direct to home satellite receptiona the end of 2013, and the first new signals will be radiated to the Mildura Vic area before 30 June this year there will be simulcast time.

AlanH

[DrP]

In the instance that davmel references there is no need for two dishes, not even two LNBs.  A single dish, LNB and receiver would suffice.  Of course, one could have multiple receivers at a household for displays in additional rooms.

Refer to the section regarding C1 and D3 co-location.

[davmel]

alanh, on Jan 6 2010, 12:34 AM, said:

Davmel,
Viewers will not wish to have a pair of dishes to get the most reliable signals in wet weather.

What the heck are you smoking?
You don't need two dishes or even two LNB's or even two STB's to access both DVB-S and DVB-S2 transponders at the same time if they are both available from the same orbital sat platform.
Any HD DVB-S2 capable STB could view the HD channels on e.g. a DVB-S2 transponder like 12011V and change channel to a DVB-S transponder for SD channels on 12052V. Just like the IQ2 that Foxtel uses. Foxtel HD customers don't have 2 dishes so your post is just crazy.

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I doubt that the Commonwealth Govt will want to pay 50 % more to keep using DVB-S instead of using DVB-S2 for the SD programs as well.

50% more????? WTF?
Having everyone that only wants cheaper SD DVB-S only STB's to access the service will be MUCH cheaper if the government starts subsidising STB's than if it opts to mandate all customers must have HD DVB-S STB's that currently cost much more.

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To have separate dishes and receivers for SD and HD programs is very expensive.

You clearly have NFI.

Quote

It may be in the future that the simulcasting of SD and HD will stop so 2 receiver dishes and receivers will be required to see all programs even if you only have an SD display. SD displays are not on sale anymore except in very small screen sizes.

Another confirmation that you have NFI.

Quote

The Analog switchoff includes remote therefore direct to home satellite receptiona the end of 2013, and the first new signals will be radiated to the Mildura Vic area before 30 June this year there will be simulcast time.

Irrelevant as all the FTA's from metro stations around the country could be broadcast on the Optus C1/D3 platform in less than a month as soon as either the FTA's or the government coughs up the rental $$$$ to Optus for re-transmission. The only thing that would take time is setting up all the local news channels plus the simulcrypting in Irdeto2 using a unique CAID (or even re-use of the Aurora CAID) for the existing FTA's on the sat platform.

[davmel]

GoForMoe, on Jan 5 2010, 11:37 PM, said:

Which breaks many laws about licence areas, and I can't see regional broadcasters agreeing to this.

Huh? People in blackspots can't see the regional broadcasts anyway!
It doesn't break any laws as it's an expansion of the existing Aurora service that provides FTA access to those locations that would otherwise not be able to see any FTA from that broadcaster. An Aurora customer currently able to view FTA because they are in some crappy terrestrial transmission blackhole (even if in suburban Melbourne) can quite legally access Aurora services now which includes GWN (network seven affiliate in Western Australia) and Imparja (mostly Nine programming for central Australian customers) etc without any issue as long as they have got proof that they are in a blackspot.
The only difference now is that those Aurora blackspot customers will now have access to metro station FTA re-transmissions in much higher digital widescreen and HD quality compared to the truly awful 4:3 highly compressed SD transmissions on the existing Aurora service.

[alanh]

Davmel,
The pair of dishes is required because of different satellites. It has nothing to do with modulation type or polarisation.

The 50 % more is for satellite charges. This is because of the S2's use of better modulation, error correction and MPEG-4 compression. Satellite charges are determined by bandwidth and duration. The satellite costs will last for many years. The DVB-S2 system is being used for virtually all HD satellite transmissions worldwide. This includes all HD satellite pay TV operators in the USA, Europe as well as here. It is also a one off cost.

This will be the second change of Satellite standards in Australia. We started with the Multiplexed Analog (BMAC) system which was direct to home, to DVB-S. this required all receivers to be replaced, this is about to happen again. This is what has to happen. The Govt will be subsidising pensioners and the disabled with receivers.

Whilst all DVB-S2 receivers will receive DVB-S so you can start selling/buying S2 boxes now.  If the receivers have to be replaced then all signals may as well be DVB-S2 for reasons above

As for the free to air program distribution nationally, with the exception of ABC & SBS they mainly use the fibre optic Digital Video Network, company owned microwave links  and not satellite.

We are talking 16 programs at a sufficient power level for the rain absorbent northern Australia during monsoon time.

They are talking a new system and the old system will be switched off at the end of 2013. So that is around 4 years of simulcast to allow for the installaion new receivers and dish repointing.

AlanH

[davmel]

alanh, on Jan 6 2010, 01:54 AM, said:

Davmel,
The pair of dishes is required because of different satellites. It has nothing to do with modulation type or polarisation.

OK, I suspected you didn't have a clue and you just confirmed it.
This proposed service is just an upgraded Aurora service which transmits all the metro SD and HD channels, unlike the existing handful 3 regional commercial affiliates and the ABC/SBS retransmissions. It will occupy many of the 15 vacant vertical transponders on the existing C1/D3 platform so there is no need for 2 dishes, no need for dish repointing and no need for new STB's for existing blackspot Aurora customers assuming the SD channels are broadcast on DVB-S transponders. I highly doubt the Aurora cards will need to be replaced unless they are the old Irdeto1's which are due to be turned off very soon now anyway.

Quote

The 50 % more is for satellite charges. This is because of the S2's use of better modulation, error correction and MPEG-4 compression. Satellite charges are determined by bandwidth and duration.

Yes, the sat costs ARE charged for bandwidth - on a MHz basis so if a broadcaster uses either DVB-S2 or DVB-S on a transponder they have leased then the charge is the same. However, the cost to the government is MUCH higher if they insist on DVB-S2 only service even for SD channels since all older DVB-S boxes will have to be replaced for no good reason at much greater expense as not only will perfectly good existing boxes need to be replaced, but the subsidy cost to the government will be much higher. I can't see how with the budget allocated the government could possibly have the money to subsidise the currently expensive HD DVB-S2 boxes to many people that only want to view SD services.

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The satellite costs will last for many years.

Well they will be ongoing for as long as the service lasts, but there is no way the government is going to mandate all customers have HD DVB-S2 boxes. Even Foxtel isn't stupid enough to do that and they are a pay tv service.
You're dreaming if you think all channels will be on DVB-S2 transponders.

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The DVB-S2 system is being used for virtually all HD satellite transmissions worldwide. This includes all HD satellite pay TV operators in the USA, Europe as well as here. It is also a one off cost.

Yeah, it is an EXPENSIVE one off cost to both viewers and broadcasters if you compare the cost of SD and HD sat receivers. I agree that DVB-S2 will be used for the HD channels, but have a look at all the sats around the world and show me what percentage of SD channels are broadcast on DVB-S2 transponders? It just doesn't make sense to use DVB-S2 for SD and force all viewers to use much more expensive STB's if they only want to view SD channels. Plus it's not like the Optus C1/D3 platform is short of spare transponders now anyway or any time soon.

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This will be the second change of Satellite standards in Australia. We started with the Multiplexed Analog (BMAC) system which was direct to home, to DVB-S. this required all receivers to be replaced, this is about to happen again. This is what has to happen. The Govt will be subsidising pensioners and the disabled with receivers.

change of satellite standards? There is no standard other than what a particular broadcaster chooses to use for their service.

Whilst all DVB-S2 receivers will receive DVB-S so you can start selling/buying S2 boxes now.  If the receivers have to be replaced then all signals may as well be DVB-S2 for reasons above

Quote

As for the free to air program distribution nationally, with the exception of ABC & SBS they mainly use the fibre optic Digital Video Network, company owned microwave links  and not satellite.

Irrelevant.

Quote

We are talking 16 programs at a sufficient power level for the rain absorbent northern Australia during monsoon time.

Irrelevant as existing blackspot customers already have an appropriately sized dish for their location to access the existing Aurora service, plus as many existing customers know you just can't get a dish big enough to be immune from reception blackouts when huge monsoon storms roll over.

Quote

They are talking a new system and the old system will be switched off at the end of 2013. So that is around 4 years of simulcast to allow for the installaion new receivers and dish repointing.

You're expecting a little much if you think the wheel is going to be reinvented. It's only going to be a significantly expanded Aurora service using the same processes and authorisation system that Aurora currently uses using the same broadcast platform.
No dish repointing required and no new STB's if customers don't want to pay for HD reception capability.

[Smacca]

alanh, on Jan 6 2010, 12:54 AM, said:

Davmel,
The pair of dishes is required because of different satellites. It has nothing to do with modulation type or polarisation.

AlanH,
C1 and D3 are so close together, the existing dish pointing to C1 is able to see D3 as well, provided the LNB has a low oscillator frequency of 10700. Customers wishing to receive D3 signal (such as Foxtel customers) do not need a new dish, as you claim.

Sorry mate, you need to go out there and learn the basics of the satellite systems we have in operation in Australia, especially if you consider yourself knowledgable on the subject of change in the industry.

...


So, here's what we know about "Freeview Satellite" so far:

Fact:

* It will begin this year on 30th June.
* It will offer one or more channels specifically for local news bulletins aired in the service's footprint.
* It will offer the exact same amount of channels and multi-channels a viewer would receive in any of the 5 main cities, with exception to digital trials and community TV.
* Self-help transmitters will be upgraded to retransmit this new service terrestrially, and in its entirety.
* The fate of the network-owned transmitters is still unknown. No terrestrial network has made any announcement on whether they are included in the plan, although we do know the networks are working together.

Very likely:

* It will be transmitted on the Optus C1/D3 satellite.
* It will compress HD services using the MPEG4 codec.
* It will follow the same end-user activation procedures as Optus Aurora.

Speculation:

* That GWN, WIN, SCTV and Imparja's primary channel will be part of this service.
* That terrestrial digital is any closer to launching.
* That terrestrial digital is any closer to offering the same channels and multi-channels as any of the 5 main cities

Edited by Smacca, 06 January 2010 - 03:11 AM.

[GoForMoe]

davmel, on Jan 6 2010, 01:33 AM, said:

Huh? People in blackspots can't see the regional broadcasts anyway!
It doesn't break any laws as it's an expansion of the existing Aurora service that provides FTA access to those locations that would otherwise not be able to see any FTA from that broadcaster. An Aurora customer currently able to view FTA because they are in some crappy terrestrial transmission blackhole (even if in suburban Melbourne) can quite legally access Aurora services now which includes GWN (network seven affiliate in Western Australia) and Imparja (mostly Nine programming for central Australian customers) etc without any issue as long as they have got proof that they are in a blackspot.
The only difference now is that those Aurora blackspot customers will now have access to metro station FTA re-transmissions in much higher digital widescreen and HD quality compared to the truly awful 4:3 highly compressed SD transmissions on the existing Aurora service.

The point is that the Aurora stations are the only ones licenced to provide services to those areas. The metro stations that would in your theory (No wording seems to suggest to me that it will be the metro channels themselves) take that over, which would essentially be extending their licence areas across the state.

[alanh]

Go for Moe,
I agree with you.

SMacca,
look at the my post listing the repeaters. All of the named repeaters listed are in licence areas where there is a local area coverage, however it is not within range of a terrestrial signal to repeat. Most of them are in deep valleys.


Satellites have a life of around 7 years so what's the point in using an old satellite for a new service? As I said you may as well transmit all the signals in DVB-S2 to save money after the end of 2013. This is the "analog" to Digital upgrade for Aurora. All other Australians have had to buy either a new digital TV or STB why not Aurora viewers.

It should be remembered you cannot get such large upgrades in variety/quality of programs without both the broadcaster and the viewer having to spend money.

You seem to be ignoring the advantages of the higher data rates in DVB-S2 over DVB-S1. This is all in a 36 MHz satellite channel.

With regard to terrestrial start dates, I suggested some years ago in a submission to DBCDE that one advantage of using MPEG-4 is that it could be re-radiated from ground based transmissions. All that is required is a DVB-S2 receiver with an ASI output, the transmitter would retransmit the program data un-altered, but the transmitter id data would be replaced by a small computer. The idea there was to minimise the number of transmitters. Now it would be to make the transmitter transparent to the program data allowing for expansion of programs/quality without any modifications required. Its an expensive exercise to travel to each of these remote transmitters to apply modifications.

DavMel
The charges for the satellite time for the government will be lower because they can use DVB-S2 for Go!, 62, 51 (One SD if it is transmitted) these are all SD everywhere else. So why not add the existing SD programs. Hopefully after 2013 simulcasts of HD and SD programs will cease as it is a huge waste for nothing.

All non Aurora viewers' have had to buy new receivers, why not Aurora viewers? They will be getting a substantial number of new programs plus a new network. As for pensioners and the disabled they will be getting a $300 subsidy.

Lastly the broadcasters are getting a reasonable deal.
They have to provide and maintain all these low powered transmitters (instead of local councils, Aboriginal Coporations, mining companies and tourism operators), however the transmission of the signal from the playout centre to the transmitter will be paid for by the Commonwealth Government.
So the "companies" owning QQQ, IMP, WOW and WAW can use the same signals for their other transmitters outside SW/Gt Southern/Central Ag in WA.

The TV broadcasters will still have to maintain their own transmitters as well as community funded translators within their area. They also have to pay for program distributioin to all but the classified remote licence area.

AlanH

[Smacca]

alanh, on Jan 6 2010, 02:10 PM, said:

SMacca,
look at the my post listing the repeaters. All of the named repeaters listed are in licence areas where there is a local area coverage, however it is not within range of a terrestrial signal to repeat. Most of them are in deep valleys.

And this applies how? You still haven't told me why you've listed network-owned transmitter sites as eligible retransmission points for Freeview Satellite. We still don't know how the terrestrial networks are involved with this new service.

alanh, on Jan 6 2010, 02:10 PM, said:

Satellites have a life of around 7 years so what's the point in using an old satellite for a new service?

The life of satellites really adds nothing to this thread at all as they're disposable. You're acting like Optus haven't planned to replace C1 with another co-located satellite when it dies. Fact is, C1 is in use now and most dishes in Australia point to that location. That's all there is to it.

alanh, on Jan 6 2010, 02:10 PM, said:

As I said you may as well transmit all the signals in DVB-S2 to save money after the end of 2013.

Possible, but speculation at this point. Thats the way it always was, and the way it will be for some time. We've been saying this to you for years now, and each an every time digital inches forward in rural areas you bring it up.

alanh, on Jan 6 2010, 02:10 PM, said:

This is the "analog" to Digital upgrade for Aurora. All other Australians have had to buy either a new digital TV or STB why not Aurora viewers.

I suppose it's because they've had digital set-top boxes for a while now. They're in a different category to metro/terrestrial viewers. Again, it's speculation, as we don't know if Freeview will be forcing viewers to buy an HD set-top-box or not.

alanh, on Jan 6 2010, 02:10 PM, said:

It should be remembered you cannot get such large upgrades in variety/quality of programs without both the broadcaster and the viewer having to spend money.

Speculation again, as we don't know if existing Aurora viewers are able to use their existing equipment to pick up SD-only services.

alanh, on Jan 6 2010, 02:10 PM, said:

You seem to be ignoring the advantages of the higher data rates in DVB-S2 over DVB-S1. This is all in a 36 MHz satellite channel.

I haven't even dicussed my points of view on DVB-S2 in this thread, so where did that come from? And I didn't ignore the topic either, as I listed DVB-S2 as the most likely method of modulation for HD services.

alanh, on Jan 6 2010, 02:10 PM, said:

With regard to terrestrial start dates, I suggested some years ago in a submission to DBCDE that one advantage of using MPEG-4 is that it could be re-radiated from ground based transmissions. All that is required is a DVB-S2 receiver with an ASI output, the transmitter would retransmit the program data un-altered, but the transmitter id data would be replaced by a small computer. The idea there was to minimise the number of transmitters. Now it would be to make the transmitter transparent to the program data allowing for expansion of programs/quality without any modifications required. Its an expensive exercise to travel to each of these remote transmitters to apply modifications.

That's nice. Let's just save the proposals for the right thread, Alan. You tend to go off topic nearly every time you post.

Edited by Smacca, 06 January 2010 - 03:29 PM.

[DrP]

alanh, why should the 'transmitter ID data' be changed by a 'small computer'?  ABC nor SBS feel the need to alter the tables in their satellite > terrestrial distribution system.

Are you willing to discuss the issues involved with trying to fit a large DVB-S2 transport stream into a smaller DVB-t(2) transport transmission without adding additional equipment at each transmission site?

Remember, its all about keeping the costs down, this much should be abundantly clear.  I imagine the broadcasters want to put as little equipment on the ground as possible.


If nothing else, it'll be interesting to see what actually does end up being transmitted and how.

Edited by DrP, 06 January 2010 - 04:12 PM.

[GoForMoe]

I don't see any logic to these satellite transmissions being retransmitted terrestrially, the whole point of them is to cut down on the number of small repeaters in blackspots that are currently either council funded, or missing many channels, and replace them with direct satellite receivers.

Anywhere with a terrestrial transmitter should get the direct local broadcasts, which I think in most cases are delevered by microwave link. It is certainly more logical that if the fully local service, including local ads and news is possible to transmit into an area, that's the one that would be used. The only cases where you'd have terrestrial broadcasting of these channels are the cases where they currently have local repeaters of the remote services on analogue (and an area is considered large enough to continue these in digital, rather than just switch off, by the numbers only 100 or so of the over 7000 non-commercial/national broadcaster owned repeaters would be transitioned to new digital terestrial services, and presumably the majority of these would be within existing coverage areas of locally based analogue services (like the Mildura area ones mentioned in the document).

As such, this is not going to be a back door into MPEG-4 terrestrially (moreover you have the >10Mbps difference between a DVB-S2 and a DVB-T2 (or more with DVB-T, as the 'Freeview' boxes only do -T) channel). It makes perfect logical sense that a new service to new receivers would use the latest technology in MPEG-4 and DVB-S2. I would argue that in current remote areas, a basic 5 channel service remain (with the addition of the digital ten) with Aurora's MPEG-2 DVB-S service, and for the limited roll out of terrestrial digital, with all people in regional WA and remote areas getting the option of the full suite Freeview service even if they have terrestrial options.

[viewer]

Good to see some movement, however, is it exactly what we need with no restrictions attached though?

I am in the North Coast of NSW and have the full Eastern States entitlements on my 2 x Aurora cards. When Imparja some time ago changed their criteria for enabling their services, I contacted them, as my cards are the old Irdeto 1 variety. I enquired as to whether they would upgrade mine to the intended Irdeto 2 service if 1 was turned off. They advised me, that as I was not in their technical service area, that this would not be the case, and I would not receive their signal at that time, as it was against their broadcast licence criteria to do so. As such, they would look at my postcode, and I would be ineligeble, this is despite the fact that I already am certified as blackspot, in analogue, and that my local digital terrestrial broadcasters (Mt Moombil) concede their new digital signal to my houshold is also inadequate, and cannot be fixed.

So, after this long story, my fear is that I will still be barred by the likes of Imparja from not just Irdeto 2, but maybe even a new HD satellite service. The rules used by Imparja regarding reauthorisation/transition from Ird 1 to Ird 2, if reflected again in this new service, may snooker me again, as the old rule of an antenna installer doing a site survey and agreeing with you being a blackspot is now not a guarantee by them for the commercial broadcasters. Yes ABC and SBS will be there....the rest???

Maybe I'll just have to "suck it and see" as they say, as it is still early days?

[willwalk]

alanh, on Jan 6 2010, 01:54 AM, said:

Davmel,
The pair of dishes is required because of different satellites. It has nothing to do with modulation type or polarisation.

AlanH

Rubbish!  What a load of rubbish!

I've learnt that a singal dish, a LCN 107 Mhz, a satellite receiver, cable (digital cable), either a wall / roof mount or a tripod and a satellite direction compass is all that is needed to receive Optus c1/d3 signals.  It doesn't matter how many dish the household have, if it rains then the signal get weaker depending on the size of the dish.

William Walker

[GoForMoe]

willwalk, on Jan 6 2010, 07:17 PM, said:

Rubbish!  What a load of rubbish!

I've learnt that a singal dish, a LCN 107 Mhz, a satellite receiver, cable (digital cable), either a wall / roof mount or a tripod and a satellite direction compass is all that is needed to receive Optus c1/d3 signals.  It doesn't matter how many dish the household have, if it rains then the signal get weaker depending on the size of the dish.

William Walker

We need to find a way to combine a satellite dish with a funnel, so you can have a satellite shaped roof to get really good reception, that also funnels water into a rain tank.

[davmel]

GoForMoe, on Jan 6 2010, 02:16 PM, said:

The point is that the Aurora stations are the only ones licenced to provide services to those areas. The metro stations that would in your theory (No wording seems to suggest to me that it will be the metro channels themselves) take that over, which would essentially be extending their licence areas across the state.

They might be licensed in regional/rural areas BUT the Aurora Vers 2.0 service isn't going to broadcast regional station broadcasts, it will be metro capital broadcasts. If a location that is licensed but is not covered by a regional broadcaster then it will be serviced with metro broadcasts through sat. That's the whole point of this service in that it provides those people outside regional broadcast areas with full capital city digital broadcast access.
If the regionals complain then they can get stuffed as they haven't bothered to fully service their license areas.

[willwalk]

GoForMoe, on Jan 6 2010, 06:22 PM, said:

We need to find a way to combine a satellite dish with a funnel, so you can have a satellite shaped roof to get really good reception, that also funnels water into a rain tank.

How?  Is there anything like it on the market?

Perhaps the new item being suggested will give water to the garden or something like that?

But rain isn't the only problem facing the dishes, in events of severe electrical storms lightning occassionally strike the dishes and sometimes reception is affected.

William Walker

[viewer]

davmel, on Jan 6 2010, 07:24 PM, said:

That's the whole point of this service in that it provides those people outside regional broadcast areas with full capital city digital broadcast access.
If the regionals complain then they can get stuffed as they haven't bothered to fully service their license areas.

That's a great quote for me to keep to use in any arguements for right of service...thanks for that...very well said   

[davmel]

alanh, on Jan 6 2010, 03:10 PM, said:

Satellites have a life of around 7 years so what's the point in using an old satellite for a new service?

Average DTH sat life is 15 years - not 7.
Oh and we have a brand spanking new sat, Optus D3, in combination with the now mostly vacated vertical transponders of C1 to use for the service. Heck, that was the whole point of Optus putting D3 into orbit to service an expansion of Foxtel (they only have an option for 12 transponders on the new sat) and the rest were always planned to be used for FTA re-transmissions for this very planned service (in addition to providing Foxtel sat customers with FTA).

Quote

As I said you may as well transmit all the signals in DVB-S2 to save money after the end of 2013. This is the "analog" to Digital upgrade for Aurora. All other Australians have had to buy either a new digital TV or STB why not Aurora viewers.

But Aurora viewers have had to buy a digital DVB-S STB!!!!!
When terrestrial and cable customers are forced to DVB-T2 and DVB-C2 hardware then sat customers should be forced to DVB-S2! LOL.

Quote

It should be remembered you cannot get such large upgrades in variety/quality of programs without both the broadcaster and the viewer having to spend money.

True, but there is no need to go DVB-S2 for the 30% broadcast efficiency advantage since there are more than enough spare transponders across C1/D3 to provide the service without jumping completely to DVB-S2.

Quote

You seem to be ignoring the advantages of the higher data rates in DVB-S2 over DVB-S1. This is all in a 36 MHz satellite channel.

It's only a 30% efficiency improvement. 51.2 Mbps using DVB-S2 multiplex vs 38.4 Mbps using DVB-S using the transponder bandwidths on C1/D3.
But you seem to be ignoring the FIFTEEN spare vertical transponders on the sats that are unused and far more than is needed for this service without resorting to DVB-S2.

Quote

DavMel
The charges for the satellite time for the government will be lower because they can use DVB-S2 for Go!, 62, 51 (One SD if it is transmitted) these are all SD everywhere else. So why not add the existing SD programs. Hopefully after 2013 simulcasts of HD and SD programs will cease as it is a huge waste for nothing.

Because that would require replacement of hundreds of thousands of perfectly functional SD DVB-S STB's being used now at great expense, compared to the 5-10% cost saving if that in having SD channels also on DVB-S2 in addition to the HD channels.

Quote

All non Aurora viewers' have had to buy new receivers, why not Aurora viewers? They will be getting a substantial number of new programs plus a new network. As for pensioners and the disabled they will be getting a $300 subsidy.

Aurora viewers have had to buy new receivers, they just did it a few years earlier than terrestrial broadcast viewers.

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Lastly the broadcasters are getting a reasonable deal.
They have to provide and maintain all these low powered transmitters (instead of local councils, Aboriginal Coporations, mining companies and tourism operators), however the transmission of the signal from the playout centre to the transmitter will be paid for by the Commonwealth Government.
So the "companies" owning QQQ, IMP, WOW and WAW can use the same signals for their other transmitters outside SW/Gt Southern/Central Ag in WA.

No they won't. THe regional broadcasters aren't going to be broadcasting metro station advertising from their transmitters! Where is their advertising income going to come from????