493 replies to this topic

[neversaydie]

vk6xlr, on Sep 4 2009, 09:26 PM, said:

Yep, well said Eddie Current !!!  

my sentiments exactly
well said

[Frost-6]

Eddy Current, on Sep 4 2009, 07:51 PM, said:

On his say so he may be an ex installer and entitled to voice an opinion on a public forum but it is my understanding that amongst other things this thread was created with the intention of airing common grievances suffered by pay tv installers, to devise effective means to combat the exploitative tactics used by contracting companies and provide a support group of sorts.

The entity known as frost 6 has done none of this, indeed he has achieved the opposite. Far from agreeing with the lot of most installers and supporting their claims he has consistently debunked installers complaints regarding pay rates and work schedules citing his own completion rates that stretch incredulity given the demands imposed by the contracting companies. He has consistently applauded the business decisions of the contracting companies to further reduce pay rates and impose harsher working conditions. In another thread he has publicly stated his intention to try and have the installation job on his own premises downgraded, effectively reducing the installers pay. It also appears that he has played an active role in having the previous installers thread closed down because he disagrees with others not agreeing with him. If he is helping us stick together its an odd way of showing it to say the least.

I fail to see how this person can make a positive contribution here and on the face of it is an apologist for the contracting companies and their ethics. Despite clearly being out of step with the sentiments expressed by genuine installers, frost 6 continues to bait and troll. Instead of contributing in a manner which helps pay tv installers with their grievances his actions seem to be designed to goad others into making personal attacks which are used as justification to close the thread and prevent online gatherings of installers discussing their issues. One of the ways to fight these companies is to make it publicly known that they are absolute scumbags and to discourage others from working for them. Contacting companies would be highly displeased at installers voicing the truth here and scaring other candidates off. Anyone who actively seeks to undermine the aims of this forum while claiming to have been an installer is extremely suspect in my opinion

The only solution is to get completely away from sites such as the DTV forum and create a moderated forum exclusively for like minded installers. Ratbags would get sick of having their posts deleted

DTV Forum also appears to be sympathetic to the contracting companies given their apparent willingness to abruptly delete an installers thread without warning. Maybe it is industry sponsored and as such would have a vested interest in stifling discussion

Lovely post, I'll reframe from a long just reply because the maturity of some people on this forum, who are the Current or Ex Lazy Techs who are the ones always complaining to Jep or the QAs causing it to be harder for the Techs who just want to do the job.

Think what you want your entitled to it.

Ciao

[Sidor]

neversaydie, on Sep 4 2009, 10:11 PM, said:

my sentiments exactly
well said

+1

[mtv]

An excellent summary of events, Eddy Current.

I totally agree.

[Frost-6]

So how many people in this thread are current Foxtel Installers, contracting Directly to the Contracting companies, BSA and Downer? and not working for contractors of the 2 listed companys or ex contractors?

[Sidor]

Frost-6, on Sep 5 2009, 02:05 PM, said:

So how many people in this thread are current Foxtel Installers, contracting Directly to the Contracting companies, BSA and Downer? and not working for contractors of the 2 listed companys or ex contractors?

what exactly do you want to know ?

I have got a mate who is contractor to BSA and is struggling to make $1000 a week at the moment before paying all the insurances, petrol, mobile phone and now PDA.

[vk6xlr]

Sidor, on Sep 5 2009, 03:14 PM, said:

what exactly do you want to know ?

Methinks he wants to tell his best buddy BSA who's ratting them out in this forum.

[Frost-6]

Sidor, on Sep 5 2009, 05:14 PM, said:

what exactly do you want to know ?

I have got a mate who is contractor to BSA and is struggling to make $1000 a week at the moment before paying all the insurances, petrol, mobile phone and now PDA.

How much is he working thou 4 jobs a day? saturday/sunday work? is this contributed to BSA/Downer or Foxtel not getting the sales?

vk6xlr, on Sep 5 2009, 05:30 PM, said:

Methinks he wants to tell his best buddy BSA who's ratting them out in this forum.

No its just someone said "lets hear stuff from the current installers? lets stick together as installers" But if my opinion gets picked on and I'm not a current installer what makes your opinion any different if your not a current Contracting Installer. Yes I understand the person you work for contracts to them, and you quite possibly have to deal with Jep operators on the phone etc. But you can't complain about people screwing you over if your getting paid a wage off someone else?

Edited by Frost-6, 05 September 2009 - 05:51 PM.

[austartech]

Eddy Current, on Sep 4 2009, 07:51 PM, said:

In another thread he has publicly stated his intention to try and have the installation job on his own premises downgraded, effectively reducing the installers pay.

  BTW Frost-6 how did you go with your install, were you sucessful in having this job downgraded.

[Frost-6]

austartech, on Sep 6 2009, 08:37 AM, said:

BTW Frost-6 how did you go with your install, were you sucessful in having this job downgraded.

The tech come along used all my dish and cables he just checked the dish strength and one of the wall plate connectors and said "thanks for the easy money" so if **** breaks its in his hands, but if a cable or something breaks ill replace it myself. And the equipment remains mine anyway (except the box of course), first time iv read the fine print of any contract

I tried to tell the guy from Manila or Phillipines or where ever Austars dodgy call centers were on the phone the house was already cabled etc but "they didnt have it listed" and he kept asking me if it was alright that a satellite dish would be put up.



Guess all austar techs aint as honest as you austartech

Edited by Frost-6, 06 September 2009 - 09:10 AM.

[Darth]

chrig, on Aug 26 2009, 01:13 PM, said:

I noticed that last time the technician was out. I asked for a 6 RCA cable for the DVD-R and they dont supply anymore. When digital was first installed in 2004 this was all supplied at the time of installation

Chris

That's ok the techie charged me for my 6 RCA - Scart cable

[number761]

You blokes are too busy arguing amongst yourselves to do anything productive for the betterment of the contractor. I'm taking my comments and support elseware and I have 761 reasons to do so.

[jumbuck]

we recently had HD IQ2 installed, the guy had a poor grasp of the task at hand, i even know that HD does not come from RCA cables.  We called our own A/V guys to do the job and sort out the mess. Thanks to They Fixed our Foxtel Issues in Melbourne we got HD via HDMI and our surround sound works now as well.  $200 i wonder what foxtel did with that money? maybe they could use it to train the monkeys they have working for them.  Because from what I hear, they pay peanuts.

[Frost-6]

dewa, on Sep 9 2009, 07:48 PM, said:

we recently had HD IQ2 installed, the guy had a poor grasp of the task at hand, i even know that HD does not come from RCA cables.  We called our own A/V guys to do the job and sort out the mess. Thanks to They Fixed our Foxtel Issues in Melbourne we got HD via HDMI and our surround sound works now as well.  $200 i wonder what foxtel did with that money? maybe they could use it to train the monkeys they have working for them.  Because from what I hear, they pay peanuts.

Were you getting your HD IQ2 plugged into a HD television? Did he run HDMI to your Panel? and he should of supplied an optical cable? Or did you get RCA into your panel.

This could be a number of things, no HDMI cables left due to no stock left in his van, warehouse didnt have any stock. Or he just didnt want to supply you one.

I often found that running a HDMI to a HD Television and then the TV having optical to the surround sound the surround sound wouldnt travel through the tv from the foxtel then down to the SS unit.

On an IQ2 install the installer (when i was doing it) was obliged to supply you the best possible connection for your TV, either RCA, Compent, or HDMI. A opitcal cable for your surround sound and a reutrn path or digipath if a physical phone line could not be put in.

[austartech]

dewa, on Sep 9 2009, 07:48 PM, said:

we recently had HD IQ2 installed, the guy had a poor grasp of the task at hand, i even know that HD does not come from RCA cables.  We called our own A/V guys to do the job and sort out the mess. Thanks to They Fixed our Foxtel Issues in Melbourne we got HD via HDMI and our surround sound works now as well.  $200 i wonder what foxtel did with that money? maybe they could use it to train the monkeys they have working for them.  Because from what I hear, they pay peanuts.

Did you really expect someone with a days training to be able to set up anything but a basic av setup?

[vk6xlr]

austartech, on Sep 9 2009, 06:36 PM, said:

Did you really expect someone with a days training to be able to set up anything but a basic av setup?

Well, I guess if Frost-6 can do it, then anyone can...  ROFLMAO  

[austartech]

vk6xlr, on Sep 9 2009, 08:48 PM, said:

Well, I guess if Frost-6 can do it, then anyone can...  ROFLMAO  

i belive he did 2 days training

[debruis]

dewa, on Sep 9 2009, 07:48 PM, said:

we recently had HD IQ2 installed, the guy had a poor grasp of the task at hand, i even know that HD does not come from RCA cables.  We called our own A/V guys to do the job and sort out the mess. Thanks to They Fixed our Foxtel Issues in Melbourne we got HD via HDMI and our surround sound works now as well.  $200 i wonder what foxtel did with that money? maybe they could use it to train the monkeys they have working for them.  Because from what I hear, they pay peanuts.

I thank the Foxtel installers for a lot of business.Most job are incorrectly setup in regards to the best connection/best picture quality. I have seen IQ2 hooked up via composite video to HD screens. I have never seen one installation hooked up to an Av receiver. For example one client of mine  waited 2 months to get an answer/quote on a installation that involved running a cable along cable tray 30mts and then up risers for two storey to connect to an existing dish. They told him it would cost approx $2000.They obviously did not want to do the job. Other jobs I have seen have been run in surface conduit when cavity walls have been available.Whatever way is fastest. My clients then ask me to re-run the cable hidden inside the walls
Just because you think you are not getting payed enough doesnt mean you do a half arsed job. If you are a contractor you go and find other work that pays better or you go work for wages.If you are not happy you move on.

Regards

Debruis

[Frost-6]

austartech, on Sep 9 2009, 08:36 PM, said:

Did you really expect someone with a days training to be able to set up anything but a basic av setup?

A days training? How many days did you do

vk6xlr, on Sep 9 2009, 08:48 PM, said:

Well, I guess if Frost-6 can do it, then anyone can...  ROFLMAO  

Pretty true, they let you do it didnt they?

austartech, on Sep 9 2009, 08:53 PM, said:

i belive he did 2 days training

2 days x 9 (:

debruis, on Sep 9 2009, 09:33 PM, said:

I thank the Foxtel installers for a lot of business.Most job are incorrectly setup in regards to the best connection/best picture quality. I have seen IQ2 hooked up via composite video to HD screens. I have never seen one installation hooked up to an Av receiver. For example one client of mine  waited 2 months to get an answer/quote on a installation that involved running a cable along cable tray 30mts and then up risers for two storey to connect to an existing dish. They told him it would cost approx $2000.They obviously did not want to do the job. Other jobs I have seen have been run in surface conduit when cavity walls have been available.Whatever way is fastest. My clients then ask me to re-run the cable hidden inside the walls
Just because you think you are not getting payed enough doesnt mean you do a half arsed job. If you are a contractor you go and find other work that pays better or you go work for wages.If you are not happy you move on.

Regards

Debruis

Interesting at the 2k install, it would be quite interesting how much the techs would get paid to do that. I did a quote job because thanks to foam filled walls used 15 lengths of conduit I forget how much my boss got paid extra but I asked the customer what the quote was and it was $300 for 1hr extra work.

And as for plugging into the AV receiver etc, its all about who the tech is and what hes got in the van, warehouse shortages (no idea who is at fault) can be some reasons why the correct cables cannot be used, I forget how many times quad shield cable had to be used (more expensive) because there was no tri shield, or couldnt get wall plates, scart to RCA or HDMI plugs and that was only 6months of doing the job.

But Debruis its usually the lazy techs who complain about whos getting paid what etc. Alot of techs complain about the call centre but thats understandable because they are full of any monkey they can get.

[debruis]

Frost-6, on Sep 9 2009, 09:47 PM, said:

A days training? How many days did you do




Pretty true, they let you do it didnt they?




2 days x 9 (:



Interesting at the 2k install, it would be quite interesting how much the techs would get paid to do that. I did a quote job because thanks to foam filled walls used 15 lengths of conduit I forget how much my boss got paid extra but I asked the customer what the quote was and it was $300 for 1hr extra work.

And as for plugging into the AV receiver etc, its all about who the tech is and what hes got in the van, warehouse shortages (no idea who is at fault) can be some reasons why the correct cables cannot be used, I forget how many times quad shield cable had to be used (more expensive) because there was no tri shield, or couldnt get wall plates, scart to RCA or HDMI plugs and that was only 6 months of doing the job.

But Debruis its usually the lazy techs who complain about whos getting paid what etc. Alot of techs complain about the call centre but thats understandable because they are full of any monkey they can get.

Points taken Yes I agree about the call centre being full of monkeys I have witnessed foxtel installers caught on phone calls for up to an hour to get a service activated. I also am aware that the call centre does also book jobs in to be completed in urealistic time frames.I am sure this would be  causing unneccesary stress for installers as well and also would be contributing to the issues I addressed in my previous post ie attitudes of some installers and poor installation practices. This is what I have observed and clients have commented on during my many years of electric contracting and av installing. I am sorry if I offended any of the guys doing the right thing but you would know better than me how many shonks are out there.

Regards


Debruis

Edited by debruis, 09 September 2009 - 10:33 PM.

[austartech]

Frost-6, on Sep 9 2009, 09:47 PM, said:

A days training? How many days did you do

a couple of days looking over another tech shoulder

Frost-6, on Sep 9 2009, 09:47 PM, said:

Pretty true, they let you do it didnt they?

Yes they let me loose with almost no training or knowledge

Frost-6, on Sep 9 2009, 09:47 PM, said:

2 days x 9 (:

4 years on the job still learning. But I will get it right soon.

[vk6xlr]

debruis, on Sep 9 2009, 07:33 PM, said:

Just because you think you are not getting payed enough doesnt mean you do a half arsed job. If you are a contractor you go and find other work that pays better or you go work for wages.If you are not happy you move on.

My sentiments exactly.  A lot less hassle that way too

Frost-6, on Sep 9 2009, 07:47 PM, said:

Pretty true, they let you do it didnt they?

Well with over 20 years satellite experience and similar in commercial installations, how could they not

The only reason I do satellite installs, is because I enjoy it.  Plain and simple!

[Frost-6]

debruis, on Sep 9 2009, 09:50 PM, said:

Points taken Yes I agree about the call centre being full of monkeys I have witnessed foxtel installers caught on phone calls for up to an hour to get a service activated. I also am aware that the call centre does also book jobs in to be completed in urealistic time frames.I am sure this would be  causing unneccesary stress for installers as well and also would be contributing to the issues I addressed in my previous post ie attitudes of some installers and poor installation practices. This is what I have observed and clients have commented on during my many years of electric contracting and av installing. I am sorry if I offended any of the guys doing the right thing but you would know better than me how many shonks are out there.

One other thing I forgot to add. Foxtel only offers free installs on a 'Standard Metro Install' this is defined as a single story dwelling with tin or tile roof and walls, but often any building or location will get free install no matter what it is and this usually takes the tech more time.

On another interesting note, how many techs here have installed diplexers? I wonder what the capbility of a single RG6 cable is when you have foxtel pushing more services and FTA pushing more services down the network

[foxtel_tech]

Hi I am a foxtel tech for Downer. when I first went to Downer they promised that every year we would get a 3% pay increase, that is the first of October, three years later we have had a total 4%. currently BSA gets paid $10 per job more than downer, I know this for a fact because my mate went to BSA. Things are getting worse. Foxtel do give a pay increase each year but Downer and BSA keep it. Downer is doing that bad the they put on another three QA's and a extra safty inspector in NSW. then Downer says they don't make money. we the installers are not complaining about the amount we get paid, we just want our pay increase each year so we can keep up with the rise in price of material and cost of running our own bussness. when I first started 6 years ago, I took a lot of pride in my job, but now I do the bare minimum just so the job is done to spec. I would like to do more for the customer but is it realy worth it. The new thing noe is a service call. because foxtel have lowered the frequencys there are a lot more problems, we are sent out to do a service call for $43 and now have to change every connector and every wall plate that has the white barrel joint in it, and not get paid extra. Foxtel have made a change to there service and we have to pay for it. the service call rate must go up. At the moment I joined a Union (CEPU) It does help but there is not enougth tech who will join, simply because the can not afford it.
Please post any replies if you think I am wrong in what I am saying, I would like to know if my way of thinking is wrong.

[Eddy Current]

$43 for a service call? Luxury. ATS (austar) pay $36 and you can use up most of that on petrol if its a long drive. They do however pass on annual CPI increases but its only.. drum roll., cymbal crash.. 1%!!!
A union will never work because theres just enough installers who do manage to make reasonable money by the sheer volume they do. Usually by doing bodgy work and managing to pass quality audits by various means. Historically the CEPU has done a few underhanded deals in telecom/telstra and im leery of their motives. Still they are the only organisation capable of putting up some form of resistance although the best tactic is to let people know that pay tv installation is not worth getting into. I suppose the installer companies would start importing workers from overseas if they finally couldnt get any locals

foxtel_tech, on Sep 10 2009, 11:20 PM, said:

Hi I am a foxtel tech for Downer. when I first went to Downer they promised that every year we would get a 3% pay increase, that is the first of October, three years later we have had a total 4%. currently BSA gets paid $10 per job more than downer, I know this for a fact because my mate went to BSA. Things are getting worse. Foxtel do give a pay increase each year but Downer and BSA keep it. Downer is doing that bad the they put on another three QA's and a extra safty inspector in NSW. then Downer says they don't make money. we the installers are not complaining about the amount we get paid, we just want our pay increase each year so we can keep up with the rise in price of material and cost of running our own bussness. when I first started 6 years ago, I took a lot of pride in my job, but now I do the bare minimum just so the job is done to spec. I would like to do more for the customer but is it realy worth it. The new thing noe is a service call. because foxtel have lowered the frequencys there are a lot more problems, we are sent out to do a service call for $43 and now have to change every connector and every wall plate that has the white barrel joint in it, and not get paid extra. Foxtel have made a change to there service and we have to pay for it. the service call rate must go up. At the moment I joined a Union (CEPU) It does help but there is not enougth tech who will join, simply because the can not afford it.
Please post any replies if you think I am wrong in what I am saying, I would like to know if my way of thinking is wrong.