33 replies to this topic

[alanh]

H34

Channel range: 6 – 12, 27 – 36 (174 – 230, 519 - 589 MHz)
I would have noted which antennas comply with Australian Standard for TV antennas AS 1417.1(Int)-2011. However none have done so, so far.

A guide to antenna selection
Please note that within this category antennas come in different sensitivities which I have tried to match to the colours used in the DBDE’s “My Switch” map.
From the manufacturers’ websites, I have selected the antennas which are designed for the above channel range. This maximises the reliability of the received signal. I have not included antennas which are designed to receive a wider range of channels.
Caveats:
1. The DBCDE has not released the signal strength range represented by each colour
2. Antenna specifications supplied by manufacturers often quote a maximum sensitivity  for a particular channel  and for other channels there is less sensitivity
3. With one exception the manufacturers do not specify If there sensitivity is referenced to an antenna which is equally sensitive in all directions in 3 dimensions or one which is sensitive in a figure of 8 direction pattern. This makes the first reference 2 dB less sensitive to that for a dipole.
4. The height of the antenna above the ground (up to 10 metres)
5. Surrounding obstructions and reflecting surfaces.
If there is any doubt the signal strength, carrier to noise ratio, uncorrected error rate and modulation error rates need to be measured with a digital field strength meter. All Digital Ready Endorsed installers have these meters. For reliable reception under virtually all conditions the readings must be better than the values in section 9 of Australian Standard 1367:2007 (ignoring the analog TV requirements).
Dark Pink
Hills PHD1

Light Pink

Hills PHD2

Dark Blue
Hills PHD3



Separate antennas perform better, so see
H3, see the Light Blue recommendations and H4, see the Light Blue recommendations

Diagrams

Masthead Amplifier
Firstly get the maximum signal from the antenna. You can then add a masthead amplifier to overcome the signal loss going down the cabling.
Amplifiers need to contain a filter to remove all signals except the ones you want.
Digimatch 10MM-MA24UP

Johansson 10MM-UA30P

KMD24FS on page 6 Band 3 18 dB gain, Band 4-5 24 dB
Jaycar LT3254

Johansson 10MM-J35BF band 4 & 5 35 dB, band 3 28 dB

Filters
These filters are unnecessary if the above amplifiers are used because they already contain the appropriate filters.
Matchmaster 10MM-J40BF, 10MM-J40DF or 10MM-J34BF
GME Kingray FL3BPMH Switch it to exclude V_L
09MM-HL12F Diplexer Domestic catalog section 9.2 Use input 2 for band 3 and input 3 for band 4 & 5. Input 1 is not used.
The antenna signals are fed into one of the above filters/diplexers and then into a wideband amplifer such as
GME Kingray MHW34FE, MHW34FS or MHW42FS  
Hills A2A

For the worst case;
MHV44HLG contains a band 3 only input, it is not shielded and does not use F connectors.
It only has a band 4 & 5 gain of 10 dB. However you need a GME Kingray UHF amplifier between the UHF amplifier and the above amplifer. The power link will also have to be on and you will need the PSK08 power injector.
Multiple outlets
In single dwellings splitters with F connectors are used to feed multiple outlets. A two way splitter halves the signal to each outlet as well as a small extra loss for the splitter itself. To overcome this loss a distribution amplifier can overcome this loss. For this channel range use a
MDA20H
This amplifier is powered through the antenna cable, so the power inserter which is placed between the TV and the wall, must be connected to the splitter’s outlet called power pass. The above amplifier is then connected between the antenna and the splitter.
Note:
1. The need for this amplifier can be identified by using signal strength measurements above.
2. The signal strength meters in receivers are not very accurate.


AlanH

Edited by alanh, 09 July 2011 - 09:13 PM.

[Ace84]

hi alanh

im a first timer on here so please be gentle - i notice that you do not list any matchmaster antennas that fit this profile - i install antennas in boonah (we can either use uhf from boonah or go combo back to brissie) i work for the local dick smith so obviously we utilise their products where we can (or if the product is good enough - we all know how hit and miss old dickie is)

we use a combo antenna that is a digimatch by matchmaster ?? (i could be wrong) (if you want to look up this antenna go to the dick smith site and type in L4033 in the search)

and also you say that nationwide antenna service dont have an antenna (they are a supplier of ours and i am sure that we can get a combo vhf uhf from them??)

sorry i dont profess to be a whizz with this stuff and only really do installs so dont know the real tech stuff so please correct me where i am wrong

cheers Matt

[alanh]

Matt, I wrote to DSE early last year about their antenna selection. I particularly wanted them to stop stocking antennas for channels 0 - 5A. I was advised that they would tell their buyers. It all seems in vain because the following catalog was unchanged.

These lists only recommend antennas designed for the channels used by various sites. All state capitals except Hobart require this type of antenna for their main transmitters. Hills are the only ones who have optimised their design for channels 6 - 12, 27 - 36 only. This maximises the sensitivity to the channels required and minimise the pickup of interference which makes the reception unreliable.

Read Get the Best Reception, Brisbane and read the links.
The Boonah translators has all the digital signals from Brisbane and has been installed because the signals from Mt Coot-tha are too weak.

The transmitter list says Boonah requires an antenna for Vertically polarised band 5. In the above post there is a link V5. There is a DSE product for that application. So unless the viewer cannot receive the Boonah then I would sell them the fringe area recommendations below.

I suggest you read Read Antenna Design Basics + Amplification, Terms and comparison of types

You may also be interested in
Analog FM reception, What to use if you have a digital TV antenna
Digital Radio DAB+ & DRM. Please read the links.

AlanH

[Ace84]

thanks for that alanh have only been doing this for about 4 months now and havent really had any troubles lol - thanks for the extra info i already knew about the vertical polarisation to boonah and it is straight uhf

the thing i find really funny though is the talk that brisbane signals arent good enough out here - we actually get alot more stable signal from brisbane than boonah - the biggest trouble with boonah is there is a problem with the analog channel 7 and it seems that what ever is the interference is affecting the digital signal too - thanks for clearing up about the antennas we may have to look at a different supplier

[alanh]

ACE,
How reliable are the digital translators at boonah?
Please encourage your customers onto digital using Freeview approved products. This will future proof them and give a bigger range of programs now and in the future.

AlanH

[Ace84]

yeah we only buy in freeview products that way they dont have a choice lol -

in answer to your question about the translators in boonah they are a bit hit and miss

every antenna we install we try our best to get reception from brisbane  because some and i mean some of the installs we have done (all over boonah so not a particular area) that are utilising the boonah equipment have a lot of trouble with pixelation and loss of sound (mainly peak viewing times) we only use rg6 cabling and only use f connector terminations - we are currently using crimp fittings but are considering going to compression as we have heard they are better (can someone confirm?) we also make sure cables are clear of any power circuits so i think we are ticking all the boxes yet they still have trouble - so i think although boonah is digital equipped it is definately not as stable as brisbane and unless something is sorted out before 2013 there is going to be a lot of pissed off people in and around boonah that had perfect analog reception and now have something that sometimes becomes unwatchable  (and just to clear up when it is playing up if i look at the signal strength and quality on the stb it is at 100% signal strength but only 60 odd % quality)

[dig2all]

i have a question.  what does H34 mean??

[alanh]

dig2all,
I used this code to make antenna selection easier for the general public. It is a link to this post and particularly to the drawings attached. I have done it this way because as you see you can use the same antenna in different ways depending on the location with respect to the transmitter and the polarisation.

H = Horizontally Polarised, 3 is band 3 ie channels 6 - 12 4 is band 4 ie channels 27 - 36.

Other examples V = Vertically polarised
C = combination usually vertically polarised  band 3, horizontally band 4, 4+ or 5

Band 4+ is channels 27 - 49.
Band 5 is channels 36 - 69.

Do not confuse these channel number with Logical Channel Numbers which are transmitted by the TV stations.
For example 2, 20, 21, 22 & 23 are all from the same transmiiter on the same signal. As you may have seen you get these numbers for channel 12 on Mt Coot-tha and from channel 42 in Boonah.

Ace,
Please read this


AlanH

[dig2all]

code!  if you confuse the industry, do you think the public will follow?

by the way, are you saying that the hills antennas you mention are the only ones suitable for bands 3 and 4?

[charlesc]

Ace84, on May 31 2009, 06:28 PM, said:

..we are currently using crimp fittings but are considering going to compression as we have heard they are better (can someone confirm?)

Compression connections are potentially more consistent and therefore more reliable.
However it should be said that you can make good connections with crimps, and compression are not foolproof.

Good compression tools are probably around $90, crimp ones about half that.  That isn't a big premium.  The compression connectors have a similar premium over the crimps.
IMO if you want a professional job, use compression.

Quote

(and just to clear up when it is playing up if i look at the signal strength and quality on the stb it is at 100% signal strength but only 60 odd % quality)

I'm jumping to conclusions on that statement to assume you are not setting up the antenna installation with a digital field strength meter, that can accurately measure signal strength (Digital Channel Power, DCP) and Bit Error Rate (BER)?
Maybe that is why you are finding some jobs suffer from poixellation and sound problems.

The in-built metering on digital receivers is not to be used as a reference.  I have seen conflicting results many times where the metering even showed signal strength increasing, quality decreasing, whereas in reality it was actually the other way around.
If you are doing professional antenna installations you really need to get your bosses/stores to buy you some equipment.

For a better explanation of what is required for reliable digital signal reception, there are some good Guide docs in my sig below. If you haven't already read them, you may find them useful.

[charlesc]

alanh, on May 29 2009, 10:18 PM, said:

... I wrote to DSE early last year about their antenna selection. I particularly wanted them to stop stocking antennas for channels 0 - 5A. I was advised that they would tell their buyers. It all seems in vain because the following catalog was unchanged.

I hope you raised the MDA20L with them as well.

The GME Kingray Masthead Distributiuon Amplifiers (MDA series) that they stock, being the MDA20L, cover the lVHF ow band as well (the 'L' designation).  
The MDA20H (VHF high) would be more suitable, as it doesn't pass VHF low, which of course off-air usually includes ABC CH2 analogue and FM Radio.

[Ace84]

cheers charles - i have been trying to talk the boss into buying a field meter since i started but he just aint ready to part with that sorta dough yet - we are starting to hit snags that are realy annoying me so it wont be long now before we have one i hope - also i am only casual too so he hasnt fully commited to keep doing this so fingers crossed it all works out

[charlesc]

Sounds good Matt.  
Have a read of those docs in the meantime....

[alanh]

Charles,
Yes I suggested that they do not stock the L version and that they should stock the U and H versions and in NZ the U version for digital only installation.

You can see the result.

AlanH

[dig2all]

alanh, are you saying that the hills antennas you mention are the only ones suitable for bands 3 and 4?

alanh, on May 17 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

H34

Channel range: 6 – 12, 27 – 36 (174 – 230, 519 - 589 MHz)

Use:
1. Main coverage and inner fringe area for horizontally polarised signals
2. Fringe area (greater than 70 km from the Regional transmitters) and blocked paths for horizontally polarised signals.
Diagrams

Main coverage and inner fringe area

Matchmaster catalog
Nil

Hills
HD1 Platinum Band 3 gain 4 - 6 dB Band: 4: 9 - 11.5 dB
HD2 Platinum Band 3 gain 3.8 - 6.6 dB Band 4: 10.4 - 11.6 dB

Laceys TV - Fracarro
Nil


WISI
Nil


Nationwide Antenna Systems
Nil


Fringe area

Separate antennas perform better, so see
H3, see the Fringe area section and H4, see the Fringe area section

AlanH

[dig2all]

alanh, are you saying that the hills antennas you mention are the only ones suitable for bands 3 and 4?

alanh, on May 17 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

H34

Channel range: 6 – 12, 27 – 36 (174 – 230, 519 - 589 MHz)

Use:
1. Main coverage and inner fringe area for horizontally polarised signals
2. Fringe area (greater than 70 km from the Regional transmitters) and blocked paths for horizontally polarised signals.
Diagrams

Main coverage and inner fringe area

Matchmaster catalog
Nil

Hills
HD1 Platinum Band 3 gain 4 - 6 dB Band: 4: 9 - 11.5 dB
HD2 Platinum Band 3 gain 3.8 - 6.6 dB Band 4: 10.4 - 11.6 dB

Laceys TV - Fracarro
Nil


WISI
Nil


Nationwide Antenna Systems
Nil


Fringe area

Separate antennas perform better, so see
H3, see the Fringe area section and H4, see the Fringe area section

AlanH

[charlesc]

dig2all, on Jun 3 2009, 10:58 AM, said:

.. are you saying that the hills antennas you mention are the only ones suitable for bands 3 and 4?

I think the reason they're 'liked' is that they have been put together by Hills to cover just the Australian frequencies of interest.  'Other' antennas don't always do this.  And almost certainly not in combination.

They are a combo antenna, covering both bands. As such, like any combo antenna, they are a compromise.  
Individual antennas for Band III and Band IV in most cases would provide better performance.  But in metro areas that may not be needed.

[alanh]

Charles,
The antennas in this section are only inserted on the basis that they cover the band designated by the ACMA. They must not be designed to receive signals between 230 - 519 MHz. As I have stated before the ACMA is now going to issue many more licences for a profit to them for the 400 MHz band which extends to 519 MHz. The likely users in the band from TV channel 20 -26 are courier companies, UHF CB and other 2 way radio licences.

Interference which is strong enough will break up the pictures and sound.

Restricting the channel range increases sensitivity and makes the sensitivity even to all channels in its design range.

I am making no statements as to price quality etc.

Hills are in this list because they have done it, I am quite happy to add others if they produce antennas with the same channel range.
I have no commercial interests in any antenna company including Hills.

I agree that separate antennas are better.

AlanH

[dig2all]

disagree.  until you make independent tests of antennas in the same class AND measure out of band performance your ideas are nice but lack meaning.  tell the public anything and they'll believe it,  alanh already has!  the trade a little more difficult to convince.

[alanh]

dig2all,
Manufacturers are not very truthfull about their specifications. The typical channel range is what the frequency bands used by the country of interest. Manufacturers do not quote a the maximum and minimum signal output variation when compared to either the dBi and dBd. The Europeans quote dBi and in Australia some are dBd or un-specified. dBi the signal strength from an antenna which is equally sensitive from all directions where as dBd is for a dipole which has a figure of 8 directivity. The dBi makes the sensitivity higher by about 3dB over a dBd standard.

Where are the graphs for out of band responses? Occasionally you get them. Fracarro shows frequency response which shows sensitivity in the out of band in Australia 470 - 519 MHz which is currently being auction to courier companies and other two way radio users.

I do not have an RF laboratory to make accurate measurements.

AlanH

[matt47x]

Which of these is the best/strongest reception?
1. Hills HD1
2. Hills HD2
3. Hills Spectramax28

Are there any stronger combo digital specific antennas?

Cheers,
Matt

[alanh]

Matt,
The Hills Spectramax 28B4 is the most sensitive as a combo. If you have weak signals you should go for separate antennas fed into a masthead amplfier.

AlanH

[matt47x]

AlanH, I have been reading these forums lately and you really are an expert in this field.  Your contribution is invaluable!
I have particularly picked up on your suggestion to get digital only antennas (bands 3 and 4 i.e. channels 6-12 & 28-36).

I am in the Hillarys area WA, on the coast with a matchmaster antenna, i think the older version the 01mm-dg54 antenna.  It worked well picking up digital until the mast weldings gave way in the wind over the past few days, causing the antenna to crack in half.

So I was basically planning to replace it but your advice got me thinking toward the HD2 or Spectramax28B4 as in your guide.  Do you think say the Spectramax28B4 should perform as well as the 01mm-dg54, or due to the sheer size of the 01mm-dg54 antenna that it would still overpower the Spectramax28B4?

Looking forward to your advice in particular as installers i've talked to are still pumping the old antennas that pick up channels 1-5.

Cheers,
Matt

[matt47x]

Alanh, you should probably add the Hills PHD3 antenna to your list of recommended antennas (Main coverage and inner fringe area).  It has higher gains than the PHD1 and 2.  The gains seem to be on par with the spectramax28.  In fact the PHD3 and spectramax28 are very similar in all respects as far as I can see.  I wonder why they released such similar antennas.
Does anyone know the difference between the PHD3 and spectramax28, and if one is better than the other?
Matt

[mrmachine]

What is the difference between the PHD1, PHD2, PHD3? Looking at the specs it seems to be the gain? Is high or lower gain better?

I'm in Camperdown (Gore Hill transmitter I think, ABC is on 226.5MHz) and I get all channels with my ancient analogue aerial (no idea what it is) connected to my TV or HTPC. But I recently got an Elgato Netstream DTT and it will only get ch7 and 9 with the same antenna / wall socket / cable, not split. I've been told that Elgato tuners always need a strong signal.

I'm thinking about replacing the antenna with one of those mentioned in this thread, but I don't know if I need high gain or not? I think I should get fairly good signal in this location, if my other tuners can get all channels with my crappy old antenna?

I also noticed that the Matchmaster linked to picks up a few more channels (that I don't need), so I assume it might have more interference? I couldn't actually find the PHD1-3 or Spectramax mentioned here on the Hills website at all. Are they old models or something?