14 replies to this topic

[alanh]

V4+

Channel range: 27 – 49 (519 - 680 MHz)
I would have noted which antennas comply with Australian Standard for TV antennas AS 1417.1(Int)-2011. However none have done so, so far.

A guide to antenna selection
Please note that within this category antennas come in different sensitivities which I have tried to match to the colours used in the DBDE’s “My Switch” map.
From the manufacturers’ websites, I have selected the antennas which are designed for the above channel range. This maximises the reliability of the received signal. I have not included antennas which are designed to receive a wider range of channels.
Caveats:
1. The DBCDE has not released the signal strength range represented by each colour
2. Antenna specifications supplied by manufacturers often quote a maximum sensitivity  for a particular channel  and for other channels there is less sensitivity
3. With one exception the manufacturers do not specify If there sensitivity is referenced to an antenna which is equally sensitive in all directions in 3 dimensions or one which is sensitive in a figure of 8 direction pattern. This makes the first reference 2 dB less sensitive to that for a dipole.
4. The height of the antenna above the ground (up to 10 metres)
5. Surrounding obstructions and reflecting surfaces.
If there is any doubt the signal strength, carrier to noise ratio, uncorrected error rate and modulation error rates need to be measured with a digital field strength meter. All Digital Ready Endorsed installers have these meters. For reliable reception under virtually all conditions the readings must be better than the values in section 9 of Australian Standard 1367:2007 (ignoring the analog TV requirements).
Pink
Hills Ultimax 18
Matchmaster 02-MDU18/url]
ANTPA05MINI
ANTLPA16B
Digitek 01CUPA1

Dark Blue
Hills Ultimax 36
Matchmaster 02-MM-EE06
ANTPA2
ANTL32P
ANTM-EE06
ANTL32SS
2ANUPA2
Fracarro PU8F
Digitek 01CUPA2
AcademyTV ATVUltimate

Light Blue
Hills SFX91B4+
Digimatch 02MM-DR18B
ANTL19U
Digitek 01BUWX20

Diagrams
Masthead Amplifier
Firstly get the maximum signal from the antenna. You can then add a masthead amplifier to overcome the signal loss going down the cabling.
Amplifiers need to contain a filter to remove all signals except the ones you want.
Kingray MHU24FS
Kingray KMU32FSDP
Kingray MHU34FS
Kingray MHU42FS
Digimatch 10MM-MA24UP
Johansson 10mm-j35bf

Filters
These filters are unnecessary if the above amplifiers are used because they already contain the appropriate filters.
Matchmaster 10MM-J40BF, 10MM-J40DF or 10MM-J34BF
GME Kingray FL3BPMH Switch it to exclude V_L
09MM-HL12F Diplexer Domestic catalog section 9.2 Use input 2 for band 3 and input 3 for band 4 & 5. Input 1 is not used.
The antenna signals are fed into one of the above filters/diplexers and then into a wideband amplifier such as
GME Kingray MHW34FE, MHW34FS or MHW42FS  
Hills A2A
Multiple outlets
In single dwellings splitters with F connectors are used to feed multiple outlets. A two way splitter halves the signal to each outlet as well as a small extra loss for the splitter itself. To overcome this loss a distribution amplifier can overcome this loss. For this channel range use a
[url="http://www.gme.net.au/products/matv/matv-distribution-amplifier/MDA20U"]MDA20U . If the distribution system is also carrying band 3 as well use the MDA20H instead
This amplifier is powered through the antenna cable, so the power inserter which is placed between the TV and the wall, must be connected to the splitter’s outlet called power pass. The above amplifier is then connected between the antenna and the splitter.
Note:
3. The need for this amplifier can be identified by using signal strength measurements above.
4. The signal strength meters in receivers are not very accurate.


AlanH

Edited by alanh, 01 November 2011 - 12:04 AM.

[kuro609a]

alanh, on May 17 2009, 01:28 AM, said:

V4+

Channel range: 27 – 49 (519 – 680 MHz)

Use:
1. Main coverage and inner fringe area for vertically polarised signals
2. Fringe area (greater than 70 km from the Regional transmitters) and blocked paths for vertically polarised signals.
Diagrams

Main coverage and inner fringe area

Note Band 4 only are not available.

Laceys TV - Fracarro
Fracarro PU8V Band 4-5 12-16 dB for vertically polarised signals

Fracarro PU4 & PVP Band 4-5 9 – 12 dB Vertically polarised signals

Hills
For Vertical polarisation mounting
Ultimate 36 11.8-15.8 dB
Super Hunter Band 4-5 11.5 – 15 dB
Mini Hunter CKD Band 4-5 7.6 – 11.1 dB

WISI
For Vertical polarisation mounting
EE06 Band 4-5 ≤13.5 dB
Matchmaster
02MM-EE06 Band 4-5 ≤13.5 dB
02-ER08 Band 4-5 ≤11 dB
02-ER04 Band 4-5 ≤9 dB

Nationwide Antenna Systems
ANTEE06 Band 4-5 ≤13.5 dB
ANTFAU-L Band 4-5 9 – 12.5 dB
ANTPL10 Phaselink  Band 4-5 9-11 dB

Jaycar LT3138 Band 4-5 ≤12 dB

Dick Smith phased array Band 4-5 8-13 dB

Clipsal
2AUNPA1 Band 4-5 Gain 8 - 11 dB
2ANUPA2 Band 4-5 Gain 13.5 dB

Fringe area

Matchmaster catalog
02MM-DR18B Channels 28 – 50 12 – 14 dB

Hills Antennas
SF91 B4 PLUS Band 4+ (Ch28-50) 14 - 18 dB

Laceys TV - Fracarro
Narrow band Yagis
10/3539/R Channels 36 – 41 11 dB
10/4046/R Channels 41 – 48 11 dB

WISI

Clipsal

Masthead Amplifier

Firstly get the maximum signal from the antenna. You can then add a masthead amplifier to overcome the signal loss going down the cabling.
Amplifiers need to contain a filter to remove all signals except the ones you want.

Hills A2A  32 dB gain. Do not use the V input.
For the weakest signals only Kingray MHU44g

AlanH

hey guys have a hills 450+ the worst thing i have ever bought..loss of signal drop out pixelation noise..
looking at purchasing frecarro 345 does this antenna receive channels under 6? or is the 34 better?

[mtv]

kuro609a, on Aug 13 2010, 04:15 PM, said:

hey guys have a hills 450+ the worst thing i have ever bought..loss of signal drop out pixelation noise..
looking at purchasing frecarro 345 does this antenna receive channels under 6? or is the 34 better?

345 antennas are designed for bands 3, 4 & 5, so they are designed to receive channels 6 & above only.

If you are referring to the Fracarro LP345, AlanH doesn't like log periodic antennas, however, most professional installers in these forums install and recommend them in areas with good signals

The particular choice (and performance) of antenna will depend on what signals are available at your location.

[alanh]

Col,
You might have noticed that this strand is about band 4+ vertically polarised. What does this have to do with band 3 - 5 antennas?
I note one of your pack admitted to the poor UHF sensitivity of Log periodic antennas some months ago.

AlanH

[mtv]

alanh, on Aug 13 2010, 08:25 PM, said:

Col,
You might have noticed that this strand is about band 4+ vertically polarised. What does this have to do with band 3 - 5 antennas?
I note one of your pack admitted to the poor UHF sensitivity of Log periodic antennas some months ago.

AlanH

Alan,

If you actually read the posts, you should have noticed the reason for the mention of band 3-5 antennas.

I even included the question asked, in my reponse, but it appears you have not noticed that either, so I have included it yet again for your benefit.

I'm not getting into another log-periodic debate with you. The LP antennas have been proven to work extremely well in good signal areas... I even stated that in my last post, which, once again, you have not read clearly.

kuro609a, on Aug 13 2010, 04:15 PM, said:

hey guys have a hills 450+ the worst thing i have ever bought..loss of signal drop out pixelation noise..
looking at purchasing frecarro 345 does this antenna receive channels under 6? or is the 34 better?

[alanh]

MTV,
He has messaged me, he is not in a good signal area.
He is not in an area which uses vertical polarisation in band 4+ either.

AlanH

[mtv]

alanh, on Aug 14 2010, 01:00 AM, said:

MTV,
He has messaged me, he is not in a good signal area.
He is not in an area which uses vertical polarisation in band 4+ either.

AlanH

and your point is?....

[alanh]

MTV,
This strand is about UHF antennas for vertical polarised signals. It is not talking about VHF. One of your mates admits that LPAs have poor sensitivity, so why are you promoting antennas outside this band range for even poorer performance.

AlanH

[mtv]

alanh, on Aug 14 2010, 02:02 PM, said:

MTV,
This strand is about UHF antennas for vertical polarised signals. It is not talking about VHF. One of your mates admits that LPAs have poor sensitivity, so why are you promoting antennas outside this band range for even poorer performance.

AlanH

alanh,

kuro609a asked the question about band 3/4/5 antennas. I answered it.

I'm sure you've already severely castigated him for asking it in this section.

I never recommended/promoted any band 3/4/5 antenna of any type purely for UHF vertical polarised signals.

Once again, you are fabricating things that were never said.

LP antennas are proven excellent-performing antennas when used in signal areas they are suitable for.

As you are not, and have never been an antenna installer, (please correct me if I'm wrong on that) it is not surprising you have never seen how well they perform in the real world.

Are you saying all the forum members who have posted testimonials after having had LP antennas installed, with perfect results, are liars?

If not, how do you explain how they now have perfect reception with a LP antenna?

The subject has been done to death and you continually take subjects off-topic just to cause arguments.

Please desist from posting if you can't offer any useful information.

[alanh]

MTV,
Have you resorted to troll me because the "Ask the Installer" strand is not getting much activity? CharlsesC has admitted that LPAs have poor gain at UHF. It is upto you and your customers if they wish to use inferior antennas. There is an installer who advertises on this forum who only installs the Hills Platinum range which is appropriate for the channels used in his area.

I have no intention of reopening the LPA arguent. Its already been said and you have started repeating your vitriol.

AlanH

[mtv]

alanh, on Aug 14 2010, 07:09 PM, said:

MTV,
Have you resorted to troll me because the "Ask the Installer" strand is not getting much activity? CharlsesC has admitted that LPAs have poor gain at UHF. It is upto you and your customers if they wish to use inferior antennas. There is an installer who advertises on this forum who only installs the Hills Platinum range which is appropriate for the channels used in his area.

I have no intention of reopening the LPA arguent. Its already been said and you have started repeating your vitriol.

AlanH

alanh,

I suggest you do something you rarely do before you post/reply... READ THE POSTS!

It was kuro609a who raised the question about LP 3/4/5 antennas, not me.

I merely responded.

You've never installed antennas Alan, so you have absolutely no experience in the field to know what is and isn't inferior.

You yourself have made it clear that the information you preach is just based on what you find on the internet... NO Practical Experience Or Knowledge.

Myself and other professional installers in these forums have years of practical experience, plus local knowledge of signals in the areas in which we install, which stacks up far-greater than any person with no practical experience and who lives in Perth, dictating to people in every area of Australia what they should and shouldn't do to 'solve' their reception problems.

As for trolling these forums, that's one thing you are certainly very proficient at.... not much else.

You've proved it yet again, by taking this thread off topic by talking about other forums (ask an installer)... yeah, I know, just sour-grapes because it precludes you. Then you attempt to twist the story by slagging another 'pro installer' (charlesc) who has nothing to do with this thread.

Nobody has ever claimed LP antennas to have high-gain at UHF.. They have sufficient gain to provide perfect digital reception in areas that are suitable. Which part of that don't you understand?... ah yes... ALL of it!

You don't want to argue about LPA's?.. good..... don't reply then.

[alanh]

MTV,
I do not get my antenna information via the internet. I only put links in on products for illustration of the principles.

This strand is only linked to from my the references in my Transmitter Lists for every area of Australia. I wrote a program which works out which band of antenna type is optimium for that range of channels and polarisations.

You have not disagreed with the conclusions I have made to produce a list of antennas which match the Vertically polarised channel 27 - 50 band. I am also aware that all but one phased array are generally using a sub optimum design for this band. This is because phased arrays are resonant around our channel 69. There is however no phased arrays on the market resonant for our channel 42 to increase the low channel gain.

AlanH

[bellotv]

alanh, on Aug 15 2010, 01:13 AM, said:

MTV,
I am also aware that all but one phased array are generally using a sub optimum design for this band. This is because phased arrays are resonant around our channel 69. There is however no phased arrays on the market resonant for our channel 42 to increase the low channel gain.

AlanH

Gee thats funny.

Only last week I saw the gain graph that came with the Alcad AP369 phased array and the maximum gain was in the middle of the UHF band ( around CH 50 from memory ) and not at  the top channel 69

Thats actually really good for me as I use band4+  

And lets be realistic here,you are talking of 1-2 db gain difference.
I can gain that just by finding a better position with a meter .Often 10-30 dB but hey whos counting .

Edited by bellotv, 15 August 2010 - 10:22 PM.

[holdencaulfield2007]

Possibly I am going OT but the last couple of posts have mentioned log periodic antennas so I thought I would add my two bits worth.
I am not a professional installer, just someone who likes to research things and tinker. I have just installed a Log Periodic antenna(pointed at MT Dandenong) to service two STB's in separate rooms. I have used a Passive 2 way splitter. One run is 5m and one is 10m long. No amplifier is fitted . I am very satisfied with the result I have achieved.
BTW I live in Epping Vic which is a northern suburb of Melbourne!

[mtv]

holdencaulfield2007, on Aug 15 2010, 10:36 PM, said:

Possibly I am going OT but the last couple of posts have mentioned log periodic antennas so I thought I would add my two bits worth.
I am not a professional installer, just someone who likes to research things and tinker. I have just installed a Log Periodic antenna(pointed at MT Dandenong) to service two STB's in separate rooms. I have used a Passive 2 way splitter. One run is 5m and one is 10m long. No amplifier is fitted . I am very satisfied with the result I have achieved.
BTW I live in Epping Vic which is a northern suburb of Melbourne!

Thanks for the input.
Further proof that LP antennas work perfectly in suitable areas.
It's the end result that counts, regardless of what it takes to achieve it.
Theory is great, but reality wins!