Nad - T175 Vs T175 Hd - Question..., Does T175 display HD audio formats? Options

[Adelaideltpc]

Thought about it commented and changed my mind, Id rather let the giggles continue... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Thanks for your contribution to this thread and your consideration for keeping my thread clean.
Cheers...

[trofius]

Hey Guys, chill,, I have no intention of derailing or going off topic,..too much..I am aware that you are both aware,... hell anyone reading a few pages back is aware...Just reads odd in places, might just be me however.

I was also very interested in this amp towards the end of last year, even considered getting and old 175 and waiting for the upgrade cards but it was going to cost way more to do it this way, even if the old T175 could be had for $2k, Both of the higher grade HD cards will be over $2k to purchase, and then there is the costs of getting them installled at an authorised service centre..

I am sure it would be a great bit of kit and would have matched very well with my T955 power amp, C542 cdp, But in the end, i wasnt prepared to wait that long, and I bought a Pioneer receiver which has pretty much every thing, and possibly more, than the NAD has for much cheaper. Would still be interested in determining if there is any real difference in sound quality between the two units given that for my purposes they are both just doing decoding duties.

Other factors in my decision were that at the time NAD had no bd player, which now seems to be just a twicked lg player, and somehow this just sits uneasy with me. (Had lots of bad experiences with lg stuff)

[Adelaideltpc]

Hey Guys, chill,, I have no intention of derailing or going off topic,..too much..I am aware that you are both aware,... hell anyone reading a few pages back is aware...Just reads odd in places, might just be me however.

I was also very interested in this amp towards the end of last year, even considered getting and old 175 and waiting for the upgrade cards but it was going to cost way more to do it this way, even if the old T175 could be had for $2k, Both of the higher grade HD cards will be over $2k to purchase, and then there is the costs of getting them installled at an authorised service centre..

I am sure it would be a great bit of kit and would have matched very well with my T955 power amp, C542 cdp, But in the end, i wasnt prepared to wait that long, and I bought a Pioneer receiver which has pretty much every thing, and possibly more, than the NAD has for much cheaper. Would still be interested in determining if there is any real difference in sound quality between the two units given that for my purposes they are both just doing decoding duties.

Other factors in my decision were that at the time NAD had no bd player, which now seems to be just a twicked lg player, and somehow this just sits uneasy with me. (Had lots of bad experiences with lg stuff)

No worries.
Yeah, talk about the wait.... hopefully it will be over in a couple of weeks... hopefully!
I wouldn't buy the nad bd player anyway. But thinking of getting a dedicated cd palyer next (might be a Nad or Rotel - don't worry there will not be a "Nad or Rotel cd player" thread. I've learnt my lesson from my "Nad or Elektra") (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[trofius]

No worries.
Yeah, talk about the wait.... hopefully it will be over in a couple of weeks... hopefully!
I wouldn't buy the nad bd player anyway. But thinking of getting a dedicated cd palyer next (might be a Nad or Rotel - don't worry there will not be a "Nad or Rotel cd player" thread. I've learnt my lesson from my "Nad or Elektra") (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

LOL

They are or were, (older models) very nice cdps, I couldn't pick much between the two players when i auditioned a few years ago,( rotel seemed a tad better built, nice transport mech, finish etc) But I ended up getting the NAD 542 as the price I was offered was better than the Rotel by about $100, and it was sound and mony that swayed my choice, the new NAD is apparently a step up again, but I have not heard it.

This post has been edited by trofius: May 17 2009, 04:52 PM

[tb123]

Just a couple of quotes from AVS regarding the config of the new cards

Not sure if this has been posted yet - You can install either of the VM cards alone (w/o AM card); however, if you install one of the AM cards, you must have either of the VM cards installed. Most of us want the audio upgrades esp dynamic eq & volume, so then you must also buy at least VM100....might as well just do the whole thing & get VM200 even if you won't use it (for now). They got you by the <whoopee>.

followed up by this from a different poster

If you want to do decoding of HD audio bitstreams by the AM card then, yes, you must have a new VM card. If you only care about the new Audissey features then you can upgrade the AM card by itself. That's what Bob Moran told me.


Bob Moran I believe is from NAD USA.

This post has been edited by tb123: May 20 2009, 07:12 PM

[Simon10]

If you want to do decoding of HD audio bitstreams by the AM card then, yes, you must have a new VM card. If you only care about the new Audissey features then you can upgrade the AM card by itself. That's what Bob Moran told me.

Ok so the way that reads is if you install the AM card and only want to use the Audyssey features, then you dont need a VM card. So that's for people who are using their BD players with onboard decoders for the processing I guess. But for myself I will be getting the AM200 and will use it for the decoding of the HD audio so that means I have to buy also one of the VM cards correct? That would be the VM100 as I cannot afford to spend $1299 on the VM200.

I'm still puzzeled as to how the decoding of HD audio effects the video section and why we must purchase one of the VM cards on top of the AM card. How does one effect the other? Hope there's more info when there closer to releasing them.

Thanks for the update tb123

[tb123]

I'm still puzzeled as to how the decoding of HD audio effects the video section and why we must purchase one of the VM cards on top of the AM card. How does one effect the other? Hope there's more info when there closer to releasing them.

Not 100% sure, but from what I understand, the HDMI board is actually made up of two boards behind the faceplate (audio and video). One has the Optical/ Coax connections (audio), the other has the HDMI connections (video). The video card can pass current audio format information (from an HDMI source) over the black plane, but NOT the HD codecs.

The one with the HDMI connections will be the VM100/200 board, the one with the audio connections will be the AM100/200 board.

As the HD codecs can only be transmitted over HDMI, then the HDMI connector board must be able to pass this to the audio board for processing. For whatever reason, the current video board cannot do this which is why it needs the upgrade.
Pity we need to pay such a premium for video processing that we dont necessarily want, just to decode the HD codec.

Might be cheaper to get the AM200 board and a new BD player?

Makes sense, but what happens next time a cool new feature is released. How many cards will we need to upgrade...?

This post has been edited by tb123: May 21 2009, 09:37 AM

[Simon10]

Took delivery of a Panasonic BD-60 yesterday and hooked it up via HDMI to my T-175 (firmware 1.18). Now this is my first BD player with internal decoding for all the new HD audio. In the setup I selected PCM as the output for the all audio and turned off secondary audio. When I watch a movie with True-HD I check the BD-60's audio output using the audio button on remote and it says True-HD Multi and on the NAD display I can switch to all the various surround options ie. Dolby Prologic 11x,Direct. But when I changed the audio settings on the BD-60 to bitstream and checked the audio using the audio button it said the same thing True-HD Multi?? Personally I thought it would read Dolby Digital as the T-175 cannot decode the new audio. The strange thing is with both configs the display on the NAD is the same. I would have thought when I sent a PCM signal to the NAD it would say PCM but it shows the Dolby Digital logo on the display in both configs. Even when you hit the display button the NAD remote and cycle through the options it reads DD 3/2.1 48hz. I know the manual on the BD-60 says "to output to a receiver that cannot decode the latest formats select PCM". Also popped in the lastest Hulk movie with DTS-MA with everything selected to PCM the only options you have on the NAD are Direct and Stereo down mix.

Is there something in the NAD setup that needs to be selected for it to accept these audio via PCM? I would post this on the AVS NAD official forum but my login and password are on the work comp e-mail and I'm not back there until early July.

TB123 could you post this on that thread on behalf of me? Would appreciate it mate. In case no one knows here. Thanks

[Simon10]

More bloody spammers. DTV is becoming quite the target.

[tb123]

TB123 could you post this on that thread on behalf of me? Would appreciate it mate. In case no one knows here. Thanks

consider it done (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Not sure about the answer to your question tho.
In the brief play time I had with my T175 using my Pioneer LX70a BDP that can decode all audio formats, I do seem to remember seeing something like "PCM" or "Direct" or something on the display of the NAD when the Pio was set to PCM.
Actually, the more I think about it, the less I am sure....

You dont still have the optical/ coax cable connected and the NAD set to receive audio via one of those inputs instead of HDMI do you?

TB

[Simon10]

You dont still have the optical/ coax cable connected and the NAD set to receive audio via one of those inputs instead of HDMI do you?

HDMI all the way mate no optical/coax. I have just created a new user on the AVS forum. Thanks for posting my question appreciate it.

[Phil Tomaskovic]

Hi Adelaide.

We're still looking at mid-to-late May, which is what we've been forecasting for a little while.

As for the NAD website, I can't help you on that one - They're probably waiting until they've actually got units actually released out in the field before updating the website, which seems to be their normal procedure.

If you have any questions, though, about the new functionality of the models or cards, ask away.

K

Hi I have a T785. I think I understand the differences between the am100 and am200. And I also believe that if put in an am100, I would actually lose some Audissey funcs that are currently in the T785? But my main question is in the differences between the vm100 and vm200. Obviously for the price difference, the vm200 has much better video processing. But I wonder if my current setup justifies paying that extra money? Also would I lose anything by replacing the current 785's board with the vm100? Is the vm100 inferior to what's in the 785? I understand if I want to have the NAD do HD audio decoding both am & vm cards are required. I have a Sony SXRD projection set (50xbr1 in the US). I have a Tivo HD, Comcast/Motorola HD dvr, Oppo blu Ray, and Toshiba HD dvd A35 as my current video inputs to the 785 (all via hdmi) and a Sony dvd via component. The Oppo is supposed to have a good video chipset, so I'm not sure if the vm200 will improve it much. Will it do much for the Tivo and dvr? Also for an older set (2005) which only accepts 1080i input (not 1080p), will it be helped by the vm200 give a better picture? And if I upgrade to a new high end LCD model, will the vm200 make a difference then?

Thanks for your advice.
Phil

[jeffpr]

considering that " secrets " review posted no sonic difference between pcm and bitstream on the oppo blu player i am going to let my t 175 stay unupgraded. I will enjoy full lossless audio and also benefit from the oppo pristine video image

[Kharas]

Hi I have a T785. I think I understand the differences between the am100 and am200. And I also believe that if put in an am100, I would actually lose some Audissey funcs that are currently in the T785? But my main question is in the differences between the vm100 and vm200. Obviously for the price difference, the vm200 has much better video processing. But I wonder if my current setup justifies paying that extra money? Also would I lose anything by replacing the current 785's board with the vm100? Is the vm100 inferior to what's in the 785? I understand if I want to have the NAD do HD audio decoding both am & vm cards are required. I have a Sony SXRD projection set (50xbr1 in the US). I have a Tivo HD, Comcast/Motorola HD dvr, Oppo blu Ray, and Toshiba HD dvd A35 as my current video inputs to the 785 (all via hdmi) and a Sony dvd via component. The Oppo is supposed to have a good video chipset, so I'm not sure if the vm200 will improve it much. Will it do much for the Tivo and dvr? Also for an older set (2005) which only accepts 1080i input (not 1080p), will it be helped by the vm200 give a better picture? And if I upgrade to a new high end LCD model, will the vm200 make a difference then?

Thanks for your advice.
Phil

Hi Phil.

There is no downgrade between a VM100 and what you currently have in the T785. It adds I/P conversion for 480/576i signals that some panels need, but functionally it's not a step backwards from what you have.

If you installed an AM100, while you would gain HD decoding, you would lose the full Audyssey MultEQ functionality.

The main reason you would go to a VM200 over a VM100 is if you had either a lot of lower quality video sources, or a display source with a less than stellar scalar on board. The scalar that the VM200 uses is the sane chip that is in the two high end Marantz projectors, and is a newer version of the chip used in the Anthem Statement D2. It's a serious processor, but whether or not it would be of appreciable benefit with a high end screen is debatable.

Cheers,

Nathan

[Phil Tomaskovic]

Hi Phil.

There is no downgrade between a VM100 and what you currently have in the T785. It adds I/P conversion for 480/576i signals that some panels need, but functionally it's not a step backwards from what you have.

If you installed an AM100, while you would gain HD decoding, you would lose the full Audyssey MultEQ functionality.

The main reason you would go to a VM200 over a VM100 is if you had either a lot of lower quality video sources, or a display source with a less than stellar scalar on board. The scalar that the VM200 uses is the sane chip that is in the two high end Marantz projectors, and is a newer version of the chip used in the Anthem Statement D2. It's a serious processor, but whether or not it would be of appreciable benefit with a high end screen is debatable.

Cheers,

Nathan

thanks Nathan! Very helpful.

[Adelaideltpc]

There's nothing that we've found, or have been made aware of, that hasn't been addressed. But they've already moved the date a few times because things needed to be fixed up and ensure that they dont have any glitches or problems this time, so I'm confident that they wont release something until it's 100% ready.

Hi N,

I took delivery of my "NAD T175 HD" early last week. After setting it up with my M25 and the rest of the system, I've tried a few blurays, dvds and cds. I was blown away by the sound quality - FANTASTIC! especially with the HD sound formats.

However, contradicting with your statement above I am VERY DISAPPOINTED to find out that my T175 HD is having the same problems as reported by other T175 owners in the last 12 months or so (ref AVS forum). The problems with my T175 HD are:

• Clicking sound from speakers (associated with relay clicking inside the T175HD) when:
  
• changing source,
  
• audio format changes from one to another,
  
• pressing mute button when listening to built-in tuner,
  
• transistioning from one track to the next (on cds) with the first second or so of the next track is muted
• Random loud "Pop" and "click" noise from speakers when skip chapters on blurays, or when audio format changes.
• etc...

These problems have been reported by other T175 owners over a year ago. I just can't believe that NAD is pumping out the new HD models with existing issues.
OR would you say that I've got a dud unit, Nathan?



This post has been edited by Adelaideltpc: Jul 6 2009, 03:08 PM

[Amleth]

There's been very worrying similar developments on AVSForum official T175 thread, too.

I've been waiting desperately for this thing, and now it finally turns up over 8 months past it's original announced ship date, and they haven' fixed anything?

What did they take all the time for?

[Adelaideltpc]

There's been very worrying similar developments on AVSForum official T175 thread, too.

I've been waiting desperately for this thing, and now it finally turns up over 8 months past it's original announced ship date, and they haven' fixed anything?

What did they take all the time for?

I have no idea, mate! But unlike those guys on the AVSForum I have no time and patience for endless fixes and firmware updates etc.....
Untill Kharas (Nathan) responds, I assume that my particular unit is a faulty one. If Nathan also thinks that my unit is faulty then I will be willing to give another shot with the replacement unit, otherwise I will just return the T175HD and let NAD deals with the problems.

Now, putting the problems aside - I am very impressed with the sound quality of the T175HD (and M25). They make the movies come alive and music (via analog) much more enjoyable. They reveal more details and clarity - I watched House of Flying Daggers again last nite and I heard things that I did not hear before, despite that fact that I've watched this movie so many times. Comparing to my friend's system (Dyn Contour, Parasound Halo, Denon 2808 used as pre), imo my system has more depth and clarity and control (althought my speakers Dyn focus are a model below his) - I think the big improvement is contributed by the T175HD.

[dantan]

Sorry to hear about your issues, Adelaideltpc.

I must admit that it is disappointing to hear these problems, especially considering how long they took to release the HD versions of their Processors.

It is good - and definitely not surprising - to hear that the audio quality is sensational.

Dan.

[Adelaideltpc]

Sorry to hear about your issues, Adelaideltpc.

I must admit that it is disappointing to hear these problems, especially considering how long they took to release the HD versions of their Processors.

It is good - and definitely not surprising - to hear that the audio quality is sensational.

Dan.

Yeah, it's a pity dan. This could be the "perfect" processor that a lot of people are waiting for. 2 of my friends (and 3 people that I know) are very interested in the T175HD after listening to my system, BUT these problems really scare them off.
Because of the awesome audio, I'm hoping that the T175HD I've got is a faulty unit - NOT something across the whole new line of HD models.