6560 replies to this topic

[Owen]

I love the deceptive advertising. "It has a 100Hz panel processor that reduces blur because of the fast screen refresh rate".
Maybe someone should tell them that "fast screen refresh" does nothing for motion, flashing the same picture information on and off multiple times does not change it. Its the motion interpolation that can be used with a higher frame rate that can smooth motion but its an artificial effect not true to the source.

[kulfi]

Owen, on Jan 4 2012, 04:10 PM, said:

deceptive advertising.

On that subject, here are two gems -
http://www.harveynor...ogue-website-ad
http://www.harveynor...e-notice-3d-tvs

[BusterB]

Oh an while we are talking HN.

I was in JBHiFi talking to the manager about Panna TV's, he told me apparently no-one else can get hold of 65ST30's as HN has bought the stock up....was offer the 65VT30 for $4,200 from the ticketed $4,999 without even haggling or the guy having to check the Computer for pricing....if I was interested I recon $3750 was reachable....

For anyone wondering if we are paying over the top for TV's in Oz, I checked out the 65VT30 at Curry's in the U.K !!!!!!:

http://www.currys.co...388079-pdt.html - roughly $6,000 AUD - are you kidding me !!!!

I'm considering going back to the U.K later this year, but I'll probably buy a TV here and take it with me !!!!!

BB

Edited by BusterB, 06 January 2012 - 11:54 AM.

[BusterB]

Woops....

Edited by BusterB, 06 January 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[sschen]

BusterB, on Jan 6 2012, 09:39 AM, said:

Oh an while we are talking HN.

I was in JBHiFi talking to the manager about Panna TV's, he told me apparently no-one else can get hold of 65ST30's as HN has bought the stock up....was offer the 65VT30 for $4,200 from the ticketed $4,999 without even haggling or the guy having to check the Computer for pricing....if I was interested I recon $3750 was reachable....

For anyone wondering if we are paying over the top for TV's in Oz, I checked out the 65VT30 at Curry's in the U.K !!!!!!:

http://www.currys.co...388079-pdt.html - roughly $6,000 AUD - are you kidding me !!!!

I'm considering going back to the U.K later this year, but I'll probably buy a TV here and take it with me !!!!!

BB

Amazon UK has it for a 1000 GBP less.

[XBenX]

Hi All,

Is the wiki no longer being updated?

Is there another resource where you can see the best prices for a range of models all in the one place?

Cheers,

B

[XBenX]

Looks like it has moved to whirlpool

https://docs.google....U1MjJUd3c#gid=0

[diesel]

Myer have 15-20% off ATM

[BigBad64]

Good Guys have a sale on with the Hisense HL40V78P 40" Full HD LCD for $429.

Anyone have one?

Looking for a 3rd TV that won't be used that much so don't need high end or larger size.

[diesel]

Big W have the Hitachi 42" 1080p LCD for $398 ATM

Edited by diesel, 30 January 2012 - 08:43 PM.

[PLANT]

Whats a really good 50 inch plasma at the moment?
What price is worth considering for a quality product?
Which brand....only PANA and Samsung worth considering?

I'm asking from someone that bought a Pioneer 508A for Quality many years ago!

Edited by PLANT, 30 January 2012 - 08:29 AM.

[BusterB]

PLANT, on 30 January 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

Whats a really good 50 inch plasma at the moment?
What price is worth considering for a quality product?
Which brand....only PANA and Samsung worth considering?

I'm asking from someone that bought a Pioneer 508A for Quality many years ago!

-
Well the CNET reviews still have Samsung as the better colour reproduction over the Panna, so really it comes down to the environemtn in which the TV is going to be positioned, loads of sunlight or very dim room.

Personally, I went for a 58B550 Sammy two years ago because of two things, bang for buck but also where the TV is positioned meant that having a screen filter etc etc for reflections wasn't a necessity for me it was more a picture and colour reproduction. Plus the fact that I could access the service menu and unlock other features LOL.

I' have recently been looking to upgrade myself and looked at a 65VT30 & 64D8000 side by side in Myer - even the sales guy in Myer said he preferred the Sammy for colour repro rather than try and 'sell' the Panna to me....

Saying that though, I also looked at the Sharp 70inch puppy at Hardly Normal  - IKEA Springavle, having messed about with the picture settings watching a bluray demo of National Treasure, it was a good picture considering it is an LCD !!!! - fantastci bang for buck.

So back to your question, for a 50 inch plasma at the moment, I'd go a Sammy 51 inch like this one: http://www.thegoodgu..._TV_PS51D550C1M

But finding one may be your problem.....  

Regards

BB

[com5984]

BigBad64, on 26 January 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

Good Guys have a sale on with the Hisense HL40V78P 40" Full HD LCD for $429.

Anyone have one?

Looking for a 3rd TV that won't be used that much so don't need high end or larger size.

I've had the hisense 46" in my bedroom for 18 months without issue

[BigBad64]

com5984, on 30 January 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

I've had the hisense 46" in my bedroom for 18 months without issue

Thanks.

Decided I didn't need full HD and size wise a 32" was right for the location/use.

Just wasn't game to buy a "no-name" brand so just bought a Panasonic TH-L32X30A at JB Hi Fi for $470.

[informer]

"I' have recently been looking to upgrade myself and looked at a 65VT30 & 64D8000 side by side in Myer - even the sales guy in Myer said he preferred the Sammy for colour repro rather than try and 'sell' the Panna to me..."

I was in a same path looking at the 2 TVs. In my view, unless you only use it for blu-ray source, the Samsung should be avoided even though I wanted to like it for the price. It might have the most accurate color but the motion blur is simply not acceptable. I watched it side by side with pana plasma, samsung LED and other brand LED/LCD. All of them are smoother than the Samsung which is pathetic. I was not even watching something moving very fast. Just some moving credit at the end of a demo...

Edited by informer, 30 January 2012 - 02:07 PM.

[guardian452]

Hi informer.

To my knowledge, motion smoothing/frame interpolation is ON in shop mode for the Pannys, but not turned on with the Sammys.  I found myself in the exact same position noting the difference of scrolling end credits between a 50ST30A and a 51D8000 - it was very very noticable.

Mind you, at home I would immediately ensure that and frame fudging is turned OFF on any set.  Hate that crazy lookin ****....

[informer]

The problem is that you simply can not turn on motion smooth on the Samsung. The only choice is to live with it.

I understand what you are coming from. Some person believe the judder cancellation is a fake effect. But I, like most people, find it hard to enjoy judder movements. They don't look good in any way and make me dizzy after a while.

In theory, motion handling and black level are the 2 major advantages for Plasma. This is clearly not the case for Samsung plasma vs Samsung LED (D8000). If you have to go for a plasma, stick with Pannys.

Edited by informer, 30 January 2012 - 04:13 PM.

[Owen]

We dont normally get judder in OZ as we dont (or should not) use 60Hz. Film source on TV does suffer from low frame rate jitter just as it does at the cinema, but this is a lot less noticeable than 3:2 judder due to 60Hz. Film directors are well aware of the limitations imposed by films low frame rate and try and avoid medium speed panning shots that shows the problem. TV shows are normally shot on interlaced video cameras, this content deinterlaces to 50 frames per second and is therefore always very smooth and needs no help from motion interpolation.

Plasmas do a good job of displaying video sources the way they are just like CRT did without artificial enhancements, film looks like film with its inherent occasional jitter and video is smooth as it should be.
Motion interpolation can be used but only with film source for those who like the look, its not appropriate to use motion interpolation with true interlaced video sources like sport and the TV should disable it automatically.

Blueray players are often in 60Hz output mode by default, this results in terrible judder with film source on a display without motion interpolation enabled, this is what I reckon you saw on the Samsung plasma.
If the player was set to 24Hz for film it should look good and accurate to the source.

Last time I directly compared the ST and GT Panasonic's to the D8000 Sammy Plasma I saw no difference in motion but both Panasonic's suffered very obviously from compression artefacts on free to air TV where the Samsung looked fine. The difference was stark not subtle and I could not live with the Panasonic picture.

[informer]

Owen, thanks for the input and clarify things a lot! I watched them mostly in JB where I guess they use blue-ray source but component input to feed all TVs. So you might be right that they were using 60HZ so judder could be very noticeable. However all plasma / LED /LCD TVs were taking the same signals and fine but the D8000 Sammy stood out to be the worst offender. Lack of smooth motion process for high end plasma like this is disappointing. On the bright side, I only use blue-ray HDMI source so I guess it is not a issue to me. But I need to find a place with 24HZ blue-ray on demo.

Free to air TV hopefully as you said should be OK but again I need to find a place with TV show for demo. After this motion blur shock, I find it hard to trust anything on review or theory but my own eyes.

Edited by informer, 31 January 2012 - 08:23 AM.

[BusterB]

Informer,

I've had my Sammy for two years watching all kinds of source material and to be honest can't say I've noticed 'judder' at all.....

Ultimately it all comes down to personal preference, I prefer Sammy's to Panna's as I feel they give a better quality picture, after all how many movies do we honestly watch that have plenty of very dark scenes and therefore require a TV with rich ink blacks.....The Dark Knight (bluray) was awesome on my Sammy.

Regards

BB

[Owen]

informer, on 30 January 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Owen, thanks for the input and clarify things a lot! I watched them mostly in JB where I guess they use blue-ray source but component input to feed all TVs. So you might be right that they were using 60HZ so judder could be very noticeable. However all plasma / LED /LCD TVs were taking the same signals and fine but the D8000 Sammy stood out to be the worst offender. Lack of smooth motion process for high end plasma like this is disappointing. On the bright side, I only use blue-ray HDMI source so I guess it is not a issue to me. But I need to find a place with 24HZ blue-ray on demo.

Free to air TV hopefully as you said should be OK but again I need to find a place with TV show for demo. After this motion blur shock, I find it hard to trust anything on review or theory but my own eyes.

Component does not support 24Hz so the TV's where receiving 60Hz, and since the Sammy does not use motion interpolation by default little wonder it showed judder, it should.
Motion interpolation is a fix for a problem that should not be an issue, when film source is displayed properly it looks fine without being processed.

Cinema film cameras use low shutter speeds so any significant motion is very blurred, pause playback of a Bluray during a panning shot and you will see its more blurred than VHS tape.

Motion interpolation systems attempt to fix low frame rate jitter and 3:2 judder, they can also attempt to sharpen the image during motion, however in both cases they are trying to create information that does not exist in the source.

It should also be noted that the Samsung uses noise reduction by default, this is very effective with free to air TV but will increase motion blur.

As is often the case there is more going on behind the scenes than most people realise and without an understanding of what affects what its easy to come to the wrong conclusions.

[SLE355]

I've got 2 Pana plasma's and a D8000, have never noticed any motion problems with any of them. Love the D8000.

[PurpleIce]

Radio rentals (in SA is running a promo this weekend, buy one and get the second half price. Of course the half price is based on the full ticketed price but hey, if you buy two matching TVs it's 25% off, not bad? (If you want two). Keep it in mind folks.

[diesel]

JB Hifi have the Panasonic ST30 42" for $644 with free delivery

[BusterB]

JBHiFi Chaddy had a 65VT30 ticketed at $4,300 on Saturday

Hardly Normal Clearance Dandenong had an LG 65inch LCD ticketed at $3,488

64D8000 seems to have stopped at $2,900 in JBHiFi, hasn't come down for weeks.