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Pure/av - Belkin Home Theatre Surge Protector


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#26 HomerJ

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 09:26 AM

I purchased this unit for 2 reasons:

1. It will 'clean up' the supply improving performance of my system components (as decribed in original post). You don't get this feature with a 'normal' surg protector.  This is an Isolator.
2. It has a surge protection feature that has a $Unlimited replacement warranty.  If it doesn't work I get a new HT system.  (A lightning strike or surge is not covered by normal manufacturer warranties).

Edited by HomerJ, 06 November 2007 - 09:27 AM.


#27 charlesc

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 10:35 AM

View Postcrossy@home, on Nov 6 2007, 09:40 AM, said:

The only way to completely protect your valuable equipment is to unplug everything including the antennas.
That is very true, and we might do it from time to time in extreme situations like very heavy storm activity directly overhead.  Many times though our equipment stays connected, for better or for worse.
This is an interesting application area (surge protection).  Generally not well understood, but has high interest value (I need something to protect my equipment).  Probably a marketer's dream, hopefully tied in with a well engineered product.

I'm sure there are many products out there that don't provide much protection, even though they say they do.  And some that could work reasonably well, but may not because of the way they are installed, or have to be installed (just plugged in).
Surge arrestors come in many different designs and types, but all are intended to do much the same thing.  Clamp the voltage from going too high before the circuit is damaged.  And in clamping, be able to effectively bypass a high current as required for the relatively short period of time as the transient occurs.
That circuit to be protected may be the power line distribution system, or it may be the TV.  Or other things in between.

Products like High Voltage Surge Arrestors, Surge Arrestors/Suppressors, Telecom Power-Surge Arrestors, Metal Oxide Varistors all have their place in the chain of protection.

There is a lot of energy in a lightning strike.  The energy of an average 3 mile-long lightning strike is one billion to ten billion joules.  Typical currents from 5,000 to 20,000 amps.

Hopefully the power company has done all the major things it can do at on its side to clamp/dissipate strike energy on high voltage power lines, transformer sub-stattions, pole-mounted transformers etc.
As consumers, all we can really do is put further protection at our switchboxes/switchboards (directly where the power arrives, and where there is a good earth).  The effectiveness of the voltage clamping at the switchbox will be improved (compared to elsewhere in the house) because the incoming power line(s) can be held down voltage-wise by a device connected to them and earth.

This device will need to respond very quickly to a rising surge, and clamp and dissipate energy for as long as needed (usually a fairly short time).  That is why surge arrestors are rated in Joules (watt-second, power over a time period).  They can take a higher current for a shorter period, or a lower current for a longer period.

So in a normal electricity distribution system, surge arresting devices are cascaded throughout.  While there was a comment above about having multiple devices, and concern that protection would only be equivlent to the weakest devices, I don't think that would be correct in practice.
If you imagine a 'test' switchboard for a moment, with a couple of incoming power lines.  These lines are all clamped to earth by a whole lot of different surge protection devices, from gas-filled arrestors, all the way down to Metal Oxide Varistors.  They all have slightly different characteristics, including response time, clamping voltage, and energy rating.
Apply a large transient, with a certain amount of energy.  Depending on the voltage and current present, and the characteristic of the rising transient, various devices will operate, some before others.  You will most likely get the smaller rated devices working first, and that may be the last thing they do.  If you apply too much energy to a MOV, for example, it will just go open-circuit.
However, some of the devices will clamp and work, if the surge is within reason.  Many of the small ones will be gone though.

In a real life situation, what you have are a whole lot of different devices, providing protection at different points in the system.  As the tarnsient travels through the system, hopefully they will all trigger and clamp where needed.  So what comes down the line is a smaller and smaller transient.  And the effectiveness of a device is actually helped by having all that cabling up stream of it, because that introduces resistance.  This resistance has voltage developed across it as the surge arrestors desperately clamp the transient, and so reduce the energy they have to dissipate.  This is why if all arrestors are in parallel in the test example above, the little ones have no chance.  They will vapourise.

In household surge arrestors, the active devices are almost always varistors (literally variable-resistors, as the voltage increases, they look more and more like a short circuit).  Metal Oxide Varistors.  MOVs.
And they are usually installed between all wires in the outlet (Active-Neutral-Earth).  So they try and clamp a surge between any two wires to an acceptable level.  They have response times (like 1nS) and an energy rating (Joules).

A surge arrestor at the switchboard will be more effective, hopefully clamping a transient to earth before it enters the house wiring.  But an outlet board may help in some situations.
As for the insurance coverage for devices protected by products, that is no doubt good marketing.  It would be interesting  to see figures on claims versus sales after a period of time.  That isn't to say that some products are better than others, I'm sure they are.  But in selling these products, differentiators are needed.  Good build quality, other filtering for noise/interference, protection insurance.

Not unlike 5 year warranties on hard drives.  Hopefully they are better made because of this, but in the end, if your data has gone, all they need to do is replace the hard drive.  Believe me, that is the inexpensive part.  I suppose in this situation, they have negotiated a coverage policy the costs of which are offset against potentailly increased turnover.
And that must be a risk they are managing.  If there is one thing that is unpredicatable, it is lightning.

#28 Platinum

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 08:46 PM

View Postdefnk, on Oct 18 2007, 12:03 PM, said:

Hi guys,

Silly questions to follow...
How do the TV aerial sockets in a surge board work?

How is it meant to be wired?

Is it 2 cables :

1 / Roof Antenna -> Wall socket -> Aerial input on Surge Board
and
2/ Aerial output from Surge Board -> TV / STB / PVR

??

Thanks!

only a moron would plug an antenna into a powerboard that has 240V running through it.  The risk of some of that voltage making its way into your antenna socket could be life shattering.
These things are designed in countries that do not use 240V.

Stay away from that part of the product,  the same goes for plugging your phone into one of these things.
DEADLY SERIOUS

Edited by Platinum, 13 November 2007 - 08:47 PM.


#29 charlesc

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 09:32 PM

View PostPlatinum, on Nov 13 2007, 09:46 PM, said:

only a ...would plug an antenna into a powerboard that has 240V running through it.
And yet people plug the antenna into STBs and PVRs, and for that matter TVs, that have 240V in them   :huh: .

A good quality design would protect in the above situations.  Now whether it is a good quality design is another matter.

#30 RosePetal

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 12:12 PM

View PostSpearmint, on Nov 6 2007, 07:35 AM, said:

Interesting your comments about the use of both types in circuit, I remember going to several seminars many moons ago and was told that cascading surge protectors lowered the performance to the lowest unit since it would react before the up circuit higher rated ones.
Harking back to my days in Electrical Engineering, I would have to agree with Alfred. Use of cascading SPDs is recommended.

Have a read of this:  http://www.hagerbr.c.../surge_full.pdf
It includes a great water related analogy as to why cascading is preferable.

#31 JimmyXR6T04

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 03:02 PM

Got one of these today, as protection for my new 50" plasma and stereo etc... question is, my Foxtel IQ box has two aerial connections.. Do i need both? I've only got the one cord, and the two ports IN/OUT.. I can't see how i'll be able to connect it up  :blink:  or am i still too hungover from last night to correspond whats going on...

I can't see the point in having one thing connected to the pureAV, while the other is connected directly to the Foxtel IQ box.

Can some one please shed some light on the situation, and the best possible way to set it up? The TV arrives on monday, so i'm trying to sort all the headaches out now, so that i can hopefully plug and play come monday  :blush:

#32 JimmyXR6T04

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 02:07 PM

anyone??  :blush:

#33 alcoop

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 09:50 AM

I think the Foxtel coax is the screw in type? If so just go direct to the IQ box from the wall. If your IQ fries Fox would replace it anyway wouldnt they?

#34 JimmyXR6T04

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 11:05 AM

View Postalcoop, on Nov 27 2007, 10:50 AM, said:

I think the Foxtel coax is the screw in type? If so just go direct to the IQ box from the wall. If your IQ fries Fox would replace it anyway wouldnt they?

yeah, cheers mate, that's what i ended up doing..

#35 BrisBails

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 01:05 PM

View PostJimmyXR6T04, on Nov 27 2007, 11:05 AM, said:

yeah, cheers mate, that's what i ended up doing..

Actually I've got the screw in coax cable from the foxtel wall plug going to the coax input on the powerboard - with the coax output going to the IQ box. The normal TV arial connection connects from the arial wall socket, thru the powerboard and onto the TV / set top box. When fully connected this uses both pairs of gold plated connectors on the powerboard.

I dont have any connections that do not first pass through the surge protector powerboard.

My Belkin PureAV came with the following spare cables
1m coax
1m antenna
phone extension

Using the cables that came with the IQ box this should be all you need to fully isolate all devices.

Edited by BrisBails, 27 November 2007 - 01:08 PM.


#36 JimmyXR6T04

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 02:43 PM

View PostBrisBails, on Nov 27 2007, 02:05 PM, said:

Actually I've got the screw in coax cable from the foxtel wall plug going to the coax input on the powerboard - with the coax output going to the IQ box. The normal TV arial connection connects from the arial wall socket, thru the powerboard and onto the TV / set top box. When fully connected this uses both pairs of gold plated connectors on the powerboard.

I dont have any connections that do not first pass through the surge protector powerboard.

My Belkin PureAV came with the following spare cables
1m coax
1m antenna
phone extension

Using the cables that came with the IQ box this should be all you need to fully isolate all devices.

Thanks mate. So, IQ will work that way?? Get one plugged into the pureAV input, the other into the pureAV output? So instead of two connections at the wall socket, there is only one? Have i understood correctly?

#37 BrisBails

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 03:22 PM

View PostJimmyXR6T04, on Nov 27 2007, 02:43 PM, said:

Thanks mate. So, IQ will work that way?? Get one plugged into the pureAV input, the other into the pureAV output? So instead of two connections at the wall socket, there is only one? Have i understood correctly?

I'd have to have another look at mine, but I belive there should only be two connections through your wall, these being the screw on coax connection and the Antenna connection.

Normally, if you did not have a powerboard, a single coax cable (the screw on coax cable that transmits your foxtel signal) would be connected from your foxtel wall socket to the rear of the IQ box.

The antenna connection - a push on connection running from the roof antenna - shold run from a separte wall connection to the back of the TVtuner.

When using the powerboard you require two additional cables (coax and antenna, included with the powerboard). These allow you to connect the powerboard between the IQ box coax (wallsocket - coax cable -pureAV - coax cable - IQ) and TV antenna (wall socket - antenna cable - pureAV - antenna cable - TV/tuner) connections

#38 JimmyXR6T04

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 04:30 PM

my foxtel IQ has two connections at the wall socket, both plugged into the IQ box, plus i have my normal antenna connection. So 3 all up..

#39 Wacko02

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 08:56 AM

Anyone compared the Belkin products with the THOR equivalents?  Link to Thor Products

#40 melc

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 06:34 PM

View PostWacko02, on Nov 30 2007, 09:56 AM, said:

Anyone compared the Belkin products with the THOR equivalents?  Link to Thor Products
When we brouth our pioneer plasma the second thing int he basket was the 8 outlet Belkin surge protector.  Recently brought a new laptop and a single belkin surge protector for that too ... well worth the money no matter what they cost ... u have it for life (replaced when it does its job and protects your big ticket items)

#41 Wacko02

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 07:22 AM

View Postmelc, on Jan 20 2008, 07:34 PM, said:

... u have it for life (replaced when it does its job and protects your big ticket items)
Actually, you should probably replace them every 5 yrs max even if they are still working as MOV's don't actually last all that long.

#42 Capizzi

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 10:25 AM

View PostPlatinum, on Nov 13 2007, 09:46 PM, said:

only a moron would plug an antenna into a powerboard that has 240V running through it.  The risk of some of that voltage making its way into your antenna socket could be life shattering.
These things are designed in countries that do not use 240V.

Stay away from that part of the product,  the same goes for plugging your phone into one of these things.
DEADLY SERIOUS

LOL, too funny. Thanks for the laugh.

#43 DR.ZOIDBERG

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 04:23 PM

I am after some of these Belkin PureAV Surge Protectors. I need 3 of them.

Please see below for my needs -

1 for - Computer (4-5 Plugs& Phone Line)

1 for - TV and DVD Player (2 Plugs & TV Ariel)

1 for - TV, Set top box, Wii (3 Plugs & TV Ariel)

I have got a 8 Board one already for my main TV Setup which has 8 Plugs, Ariel and PAY TV Plugs which I got on a deal with my Sony Bravia.

Can someone tell me the best place to buy these boards for the best price. My 8 board one was $200

#44 Vortical

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 12:17 PM

http://www.mats-syst...om.au/upss.html
http://www.mtechcomp...php?cPath=1_127

StaticIce is a good place to look for the best prices.
http://www.staticice.com.au

Edited by Vortical, 07 February 2008 - 12:18 PM.


#45 DR.ZOIDBERG

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 03:15 PM

Thanks for that

#46 mc'loven

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 05:31 PM

have a look at this i don't know what they are like

http://www.novaris.c.../plug_in2.shtml

#47 DR.ZOIDBERG

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 09:53 AM

Quick question.

Do I need to hook my Network Cable RJ45 up to a surge protector? I cant see the point of doing this as its hooked up from my modem which has a 4 port router that has 3 RJ45 cables going to Computer, PS3 and 360. The Computer and modem are in the same room and going to be hooked up to a Belkin PureAv Surge Protector. The PS3 & 360 and in a different Room with my Sony Bravia and they are all hooked up to a Belkin PureAv.

The Network Cable from the Computer room to the Lounge room just goes from the wall (Professionally Installed with wall socket plugs etc) into the ceiling and in the lounge wall.

Does  this need to be Protected???

Here is a little picture I have drawn up haha

http://img444.images...avhookupug4.jpg

I Hope someone can help me, thanks

#48 Sicarius123

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 03:59 PM

So can anyone recomend where to buy a good surge protector for the best price? 8 port would be great even though I wont need that many for a while.

Hoping to pick one up before my new TV is delivered.

Dan.

#49 Kazz

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 04:22 PM

View PostSicarius123, on Feb 12 2008, 04:59 PM, said:

So can anyone recomend where to buy a good surge protector for the best price? 8 port would be great even though I wont need that many for a while.

Hoping to pick one up before my new TV is delivered.

Dan.

I got the Belkin one that this thread is about from DSE for $198 but others have gotten them cheaper, go back through the thread and you'll see where they got them from.

#50 DR.ZOIDBERG

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 04:57 PM

http://www.mtechcomp...php?cPath=1_127

Sell them @ the best price I can find so far.


Anyone help me with my post above regarding the RJ45 cables?