43 replies to this topic

[Curious]

Howdy all,

I am in the process of splitting my system up into separate Surround and 2 channel use.

I intend to purchase a dedicated 2 channel amp to compliment a set of Divas (coming later this year).

In the meantime I am enjoying my music on my Denon DVD5000 HDCD-DVD player (which features an attenuator allowing direct transfer of signal to amp, effectively negating the need for a pre-amp) this is amplified currently by a set of Denon POA-T3s.

I am a fan of Bass and want to cover off the very low end adequately in readiness for when the Divas arrive, for this I need to have some Subs contructed.

I only know of two members here who have had Subs made here in Melbourne (Joz and Spearmint) and would like to invite all members to offer recommendations of Sub manufacturers that they have personally had experience with.

BTW feel free to post anything that comes to mind that might help steer me in the right direction  

Cheers,

Curious

[JohnA]

Curious

first up, after listening to the Diva's at Al's place i found a sub wasn't realy required.
They went low enough and had enough authority

Now if you MUST have a sub then there are a few options

get a brand name sub of good quality lots of $$$$
get a custom built one, like spearmint and Joz, still not that cheap

i suppose it depends on your budget

1 or 2?

Osborne has his cabinets built by the same person who built Joz's and spearmints subs also, but osborn uses focal drivers and redgum plate amp
I looked at the osborn subs then also e-mails John to get a price on a custom made job, not much cheaper then the osborn offering.
Only difference, if i didn't like the way the osborn sb performed in my room, i have 30 days to give it back.

SGR are also making subs, and after having 2 of their 10" sealed units at home i can highly recommend them. They will also let you try them at home to ensure you are happy with them.

BUT

again i will say, the diva's perform well and maybe wait till you have them, then decide if you realy ned to add subs

[Spearmint]

The problem in Australia at this point in time is getting your hands on some quality OEM sub drivers. You can certainly import drivers, and get some cabinets built to suit; otherwise you are going to need to opt for a commercial solution.

I know there are negotiations going on for another range of drivers to be distributed in Australia, although this may take some time to setup.

Depending on your urgency, a commercial unit/s might be the better solution.

[Spearmint]

Curious, on Jul 17 2007, 10:02 AM, said:

~SNIP~

BTW feel free to post anything that comes to mind that might help steer me in the right direction  

Cheers,

Curious

Okay I've always wanted to do this Norpus!

IB IB IB

[JohnA]

Spearmint, on Jul 17 2007, 10:25 AM, said:

Okay I've always wanted to do this Norpus!

IB IB IB

damn, i was going to do that, but completely forgot about it  

[Curious]

JohnA, on Jul 17 2007, 10:10 AM, said:

Curious

first up, after listening to the Diva's at Al's place i found a sub wasn't realy required.
They went low enough and had enough authority

Now if you MUST have a sub then there are a few options

get a brand name sub of good quality lots of $$$$
get a custom built one, like spearmint and Joz, still not that cheap

i suppose it depends on your budget

1 or 2?

Osborne has his cabinets built by the same person who built Joz's and spearmints subs also, but osborn uses focal drivers and redgum plate amp
I looked at the osborn subs then also e-mails John to get a price on a custom made job, not much cheaper then the osborn offering.
Only difference, if i didn't like the way the osborn sb performed in my room, i have 30 days to give it back.

SGR are also making subs, and after having 2 of their 10" sealed units at home i can highly recommend them. They will also let you try them at home to ensure you are happy with them.

BUT

again i will say, the diva's perform well and maybe wait till you have them, then decide if you realy ned to add subs

Thanks John,

Good point about the Divas, but I assumed that there is more to be gained below their nominal 30Hz?

I am leaning towards 2 subs and I have a preference for them to be inbuilt (I have two spaces in my equipment wall especially for this purpose)

The Osbornes and SGRs sound promising, is there a local contact for them in Melbourne?

Cheers,

Curious

[JohnA]

Sure there may be some discs that have things below 30Hz and sure a couple of subs will add nicely to the experiance.
However from what i heard at Al's place you could happily live without them.
Again each room is different so you need to evaluate it in your room

osborne's website
http://www.osbornloudspeakers.com.au/

contact Stuart at SGR through
sales@sgraudio.com

[Curious]

JohnA, on Jul 17 2007, 10:32 AM, said:

Sure there may be some discs that have things below 30Hz and sure a couple of subs will add nicely to the experiance.
However from what i heard at Al's place you could happily live without them.
Again each room is different so you need to evaluate it in your room

osborne's website
http://www.osbornloudspeakers.com.au/

contact Stuart at SGR through
sales@sgraudio.com

Thanks John,

This is going to be 'FUN'  

[Curious]

Spearmint, on Jul 17 2007, 10:25 AM, said:

Okay I've always wanted to do this Norpus!

IB IB IB

He he...does building them into a wall cavity count?  

[alcoop]

Edit. I worked it out.

2nd edit. Thanks Rodn didnt see your post below.

Cheers

[RodN]

Hi Curious,

I also had my subs custom built by John Woodhead at Aranmar acoustics. They are a great sub but as Mr Mint has said they were great because I could get an OEM off John at the same time. As there aren't many sub driver options available locally at the moment getting them imported really raises the cost. But John does cabinets to die for!

Personally I feel the SGR subs have been the best sub I've heard for quite some time. That is not withstanding Norpus IB and Spearmint's Subs which are world class and shouldn't probably be considered in the 'regular box' categories.

Straight retail/commercial have some great offerings too - Aslan, Osborn and the local SVS agent all offer brilliant subs for the price.

alcoop, on Jul 17 2007, 12:37 PM, said:

Ok stupid question time. If I have a CD player, connected to a 2 channel amp (mfa3.5) how do I add a sub ? There is only left & right output.

I know I can do it thru the AVR the way Alebonau suggests here http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=34015

However leaving the HT AMP out of the equation how is it done?

Just add some stereo connectors on one of the outputs of the pre and send that second feed off to the sub then adjust levels on the sub to suit.

[Spearmint]

RodN, on Jul 17 2007, 12:41 PM, said:

~SNIP~

Personally I feel the SGR subs have been the best sub I've heard for quite some time.

~SNIP~

For Rod to making this kind of statement, then the SGR subs must be first rate. Rod has been listening and using quality subs for a very long time.

[norpus]

Spearmint, on Jul 17 2007, 10:25 AM, said:

Okay I've always wanted to do this Norpus!

IB IB IB

Hehe, good to see you and John getting into the spirit Spearmint

I have been to Curious' home and know that IB is not an easy option
However, I would have to mention that putting subs inside cabinets/wall cavity is not something I'd recommend for SQ Curious - remember bass is omnipolar not just front firing

If you are after serious audiophile dual subs, the SGRs are top of my list currently. Also serious outlay though, esp for 2.

IB  IB  IB  

[:)]

hi curious sure explore the options suggested but as per john, I'd suggest to hold off till once you have the divas and see how they go in your room. they might be quite good enough bass wise for your needs otherwise you can consider subs. though need to keep in mind the additional expense, plus integration for 2ch which isnt always easy, plus the additional boxes as well, which as per norpus I agree probably not a good idea to build into cabinets.

[RodN]

Yes the Divas are great for stereo playback no subs necessary I agree. The massive dynamics required of subs in the sub 40Hz region for HT duties would be another story though.

[Curious]

However, I would have to mention that putting subs inside cabinets/wall cavity is not something I'd recommend for SQ Curious - remember bass is omnipolar not just front firing

hi curious sure explore the options suggested but as per john, I'd suggest to hold off till once you have the divas and see how they go in your room. they might be quite good enough bass wise for your needs otherwise you can consider subs. though need to keep in mind the additional expense, plus integration for 2ch which isnt always easy, plus the additional boxes as well, which as per norpus I agree probably not a good idea to build into cabinets.

RodN, on Jul 17 2007, 03:12 PM, said:

Yes the Divas are great for stereo playback no subs necessary I agree. The massive dynamics required of subs in the sub 40Hz region for HT duties would be another story though.

Damn, I can't believe you guys are trying to talk me out of buying more HiFi    and I consider you 5 in particular to be my unofficial mentors (shakes head)    

Well I'm a sucker for outstanding technology, and from what I can gather (after discussing many points of Sub placement with the SGR sales and marketing division this afternoon...Thanks Harry...for TWO hours) I am partaking of his hospitality in the near future for demonstration of the SGR Sub product    

Oboy this is serious FUN  

Cheers,

Curious

[Curious]

If you are after serious audiophile dual subs, the SGRs are top of my list currently.

Personally I feel the SGR subs have been the best sub I've heard for quite some time. That is not withstanding Norpus IB and Spearmint's Subs which are world class and shouldn't probably be considered in the 'regular box' categories.

Spearmint, on Jul 17 2007, 12:48 PM, said:

For Rod to making this kind of statement, then the SGR subs must be first rate. Rod has been listening and using quality subs for a very long time.

Now thats what I'm talking about! WooHoo  

[CConnor]

Curious, on Jul 17 2007, 10:02 AM, said:

I am a fan of Bass and want to cover off the very low end adequately in readiness for when the Divas arrive, for this I need to have some Subs contructed.

Sir, if a properly setup Focal Diva does not deliver enough bass for you, then you need to get your ears examined. Subwoofers ALWAYS add problems to systems unless used with skill. You are much better off getting your Divas (a superb speaker by the way) and learning to set them up properly first. Do not spend more money on subwoofers until you are certain that you have gotten the most out of your Divas. I have heard thousands of systems in my time, and it is only within the last ten years that subwoofers have become common. Most of these systems sound simply awful because people fall into the trap of believing that throwing more money into a system will make it sound better. It is rare for me to hear a system with a subwoofer that sounds natural, because people just assume that placing a subwoofer in the room is enough. Put on the brakes, Mr. Curious. Get your Divas first and then listen.

Best regards, Cameron.

[:)]

Curious, on Jul 17 2007, 11:09 PM, said:

~
Damn, I can't believe you guys are trying to talk me out of buying more HiFi    and I consider you 5 in particular to be my unofficial mentors (shakes head)    

~

Oboy this is serious FUN  

Cheers,

Curious

hehe curious as easy as it is to fall into that and just suggest to go ahead and get them, honestly believe with the lovely speakers the divas are, get em first and give them a go. Also given you'd be utilising your dvd player as source and ht av pre-pro amps to drive them, I think the money instead of going on two serious subs might be better considered on say decent dedicated 2ch source + 2ch integrated/2ch pre-pwr setup. Really do think that if its 2ch your chasing the benefit from a 2ch source + amps will probably outweigh the benefits the subs might bring.

either way some excellent stuff to consider and yep its all serious fun ! hehe

[Curious]

CamCon, on Jul 18 2007, 12:23 AM, said:

Sir, if a properly setup Focal Diva does not deliver enough bass for you, then you need to get your ears examined. Subwoofers ALWAYS add problems to systems unless used with skill. You are much better off getting your Divas (a superb speaker by the way) and learning to set them up properly first. Do not spend more money on subwoofers until you are certain that you have gotten the most out of your Divas. I have heard thousands of systems in my time, and it is only within the last ten years that subwoofers have become common. Most of these systems sound simply awful because people fall into the trap of believing that throwing more money into a system will make it sound better. It is rare for me to hear a system with a subwoofer that sounds natural, because people just assume that placing a subwoofer in the room is enough. Put on the brakes, Mr. Curious. Get your Divas first and then listen.

Best regards, Cameron.

Thank you Cameron,

I suspect that my ailing sense of humour and superficial nature of my posts do sometimes give people the impression that I do not investigate my listening needs sufficiently (this is my fault as most of the time I find myself unable to fully express my thought processes)

So here goes:

I agree with your assessment that "throwing more money into a system will not make it sound better" and so I am being careful to investigate what a sub manufacturer can do for me that will ensure any sub(s) that I purchase are designed to compliment the Divas rather than detract from their beauty (and I'm not talking asthetically here)...clearly "just placing a sub in the room" will not achieve what I want and therefore the measure of success for me will be the seemless integration of sub into the 2 channel system (and I realise that seemless will require some very special tuning skills on the part of the manufacturer).

Regarding the Divas presenting sufficient bass, I am confident in your assessment and yet interestingly I seem to find that adding sub to my 2 channel listening accentuates the experience for me   (perhaps it is an individual thing?)

Rest assured I will be listening and testing my enjoyment level of the Divas (with and without subs) well in advance of either gracing my home...I have this luxury due to the nature of the arrangement I have made with the retailer of the Divas  

In closing, 'brakes' are not what I feel is required for me right now Cameron, just some good old fashioned information gathering, common sense and listening I suspect  

Thanks for your input, if you have any information that will help me achieve my goal (successful integration of sub into my 2 channel system) then please keep posting...this is something of a learning curve for me!

Cheers,

Curious

[Curious]

alebonau, on Jul 18 2007, 09:22 AM, said:

hehe curious as easy as it is to fall into that and just suggest to go ahead and get them, honestly believe with the lovely speakers the divas are, get em first and give them a go. Also given you'd be utilising your dvd player as source and ht av pre-pro amps to drive them, I think the money instead of going on two serious subs might be better considered on say decent dedicated 2ch source + 2ch integrated/2ch pre-pwr setup. Really do think that if its 2ch your chasing the benefit from a 2ch source + amps will probably outweigh the benefits the subs might bring.

either way some excellent stuff to consider and yep its all serious fun ! hehe

Thanks Al, haven't forgotton the Pre & amplification...these items are the subject of 'other' investigations  

Oboy...I hope my bank manager is ready for a 'paper signing extravaganza'...

[JohnA]

Curious, welcome to OUR world  

[Curious]

JohnA, on Jul 18 2007, 11:32 AM, said:

Curious, welcome to OUR world  

Aaaah...and what a WONDERFUL world it is (albeit expensive)...

[norpus]

Curious, on Jul 18 2007, 11:47 AM, said:

Aaaah...and what a WONDERFUL world it is (albeit expensive)...

[RodN]

Curious, on Jul 18 2007, 11:47 AM, said:

Aaaah...and what a WONDERFUL world it is (albeit expensive)...

IB isn't


.... ib ib ib... :ph34r: