124 replies to this topic

[pgdownload]

Robert E, on Jul 2 2009, 05:43 PM, said:

Umm... this is now incorrect.

I'm quite eager to put up a 2400 entry. By accounts should be a doozy of a PVR. However until I

a) See one in store

and

B) See someone talking about writing a TAP for it

I'll just have to wait :)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Edited by pgdownload, 02 July 2009 - 07:56 PM.

[MelbournePark]

Where should I go to discuss PVR choices?

My story is confusing: a few years ago, I bought a low brand PVR from JB, but it did not work properly. After much time wasted, I took it back and got a replacement. It also did not work properly - although it did in the store work OK. I had printed out the errors (by photographing the TV screen and then colour printing the errors. I had quite a dosier). JB then got me to pay more, and I bought a TEAC 160T they claimed at cost price - a brand I had sworn never to buy again after two VCRs both were unreliable.

But the TEAC unit has been great - with two tuners, it did heaps. I could watch the TV directly, and record a program on another channel via the TEAC PVR, and also I could record a second channel using the time shift on the very same TEAC TVR (although the time shift only lasted about 75 minutes). I found also, that normal definition was not very different to HD, the only effective difference for my setup was the sound (I have an above average 5 speaker system with and a 50inch not full HD Pioneer Plasma which I think looks amazing).

I even found the TEAC could record HD tranmissions - goodness knows how that happened.

I never even got the software upgrades, that fixed the loss of sound issue - which only bothered me twice, and I found that I could get around it, by checking on time shift that the sound worked on the channel I had chosen.

But then the I think power supply failed. It feels like a power supply - the unit would not turn on now and then, and then it died.

TEAC said they'd charge $30 just to look at it, and refused to quote me on a power supply replacement cost. Their service was a small place doing it for them (in Melbourne, a Bayside suburb). I am annoyed that they refuse to tell me how much a power supply replacedment would cost. Because of that, I don't feel like getting the thing looked at.

So, I am not sure if I should get the TEAC repaired, and then maybe upgrade its hard disk and software, or get a new unit.

If its new, I don't know what to buy. HD will sound better - I am not sure if there's any other benefit. My AMP has lots of spare HDMI inputs, so that appeals to me. But the TEAC has optical sound outs which would mean an HD without HDMI might still be connected without issues of more cables.

I like having two channels in a PVR ... but I read about a Topfield TF7050HDRt unit from Dick Smith, which has 250MB, but I think just the one tuner ...

Incidentally, my home has a radio network, with a cable connection. We don't have pay TV though - when the adverstisements arrived into cable TV - when the promise was initially no advertisements - I decided I did not want to pay to watch advertisements. So we have not had cable for quite a few years now.

Any assistance would be appreciated ... I suspect a lower brand might work for me. I am able to install HDs too - but my "PC" is either a notebook, or a Mac running XP if I need it too (evidently some PVR HD upgrades or externals need a PC to install so I read).

Cheers - this is my first post!

Edited by MelbournePark, 09 September 2009 - 11:48 PM.

[pgdownload]

Hi MP,

You can make 4 more test posts here. That will enable you to make your own post rather than tag on the end of others.

You might like to read the other HD PVR sticky to get a practical idea of what modern HD PVRs can do. It seems cost might be a big factor for you - HD PVRs range roughly from $400 to $900. Do you have a upper limit?

I agree a twin tuner unit is the way to go if its (your primary source of TV) if you can. Pity TEAC were so obtuse. Usually the diagnosis cost is deducted from the overall repair cost if you go ahead. Not sure if it won't be your cheapest option.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

PS Good on you for not paying to watch ads (with a good PVR you can actually skip the free ads too ) The Foxtel fineprint always had ads starting a few years after launch. Given how few actually did anything about them when they arrived its perhaps not surprising they did?

[MelbournePark]

pgdownload, on Sep 10 2009, 06:04 AM, said:

Hi MP,

You can make 4 more test posts here. That will enable you to make your own post rather than tag on the end of others.

You might like to read the other HD PVR sticky to get a practical idea of what modern HD PVRs can do. It seems cost might be a big factor for you - HD PVRs range roughly from $400 to $900. Do you have a upper limit?

I agree a twin tuner unit is the way to go if its (your primary source of TV) if you can. Pity TEAC were so obtuse. Usually the diagnosis cost is deducted from the overall repair cost if you go ahead. Not sure if it won't be your cheapest option.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

PS Good on you for not paying to watch ads (with a good PVR you can actually skip the free ads too ) The Foxtel fineprint always had ads starting a few years after launch. Given how few actually did anything about them when they arrived its perhaps not surprising they did?

About the pay TV, just before it stopped, I had what I thought was the ultimate pay TV experience. I turned on the TV, and went to the movie I had wanted to watch. I saw the last four minutes. That summed up the whole pay experience for me. I enjoyed that movie too! Now of course cable has time shift devices too.

Another reason though why I dropped it, was because I the contract had included a surround tuner - but I found out that it was not surround, and not even stereo they said. And I had an argument with them. The end of it was that they would only supply me the correct box if I paid for it. The reason I got the wrong box, was because they incorrectly delivered it to me - yet I still had to pay extra for the proper unit! Meanwhile I think I had been getting what was close to mono, for several years. Their attitude cost them! But the driving force really was the ads, and the fact that it was not possible to see a movie when you wanted to. Nowadays, if you watch golf, I think you need cable TV. And tennis too I guess. I used to look at the majors now and then - they are rarely broadcast these days. It makes me wonder what the sponsors must think about what must be a diminished market.

I am value driven, which is different from cost. My wife watches TV more than I do - but I like the sport, such as GPs and the footy (which is almost over). I don't tell her how much the tech stuff costs! I bought a combination remote a few years ago, and it was great, but not cheap. It lasted about 15 months - and was out of warranty. I felt ripped off. I notice now, that better touch remotes still have limited warranties, yet they cost I think from $200 and upwards. And they chew batteries and take time to setup. So I put up with all the remotes - it seems bad value to spend time setting something up, and then it fails, and you have to get a different one, and go through the whole process all over again.

My wife knew the TV's cost, but not the surround. Surprisingly my Surround is great, despite using for the important centre speaker, a Nakamichi unit which has a different tone to the English side speakers and the English sub-base unit I use. The rears I bought new which were not cheap. But the whole system sounds great, due to the microphone adjusting the sound surprisingly well. By having an amplified centre speaker, I was able to bi-amp the English side speakers, which are hard to drive and one had a suspect crossover. It all turned out great. But I paid to get the wiring done - the floor is too low and the distance from the amps and gear was 7 metres in cable requirements. I thought my wife would not have been impressed with the cost of everything! Ignorance is bliss! Or maybe she knows?

I have a sort of friend who made money years ago programming Oracle databases in the UK. After he made lots, he came back to Aus. When he bought a big TV, he bought a PC and made his own TVR. I wasn't sure if that was good value or not. But since he did, PCs are even cheaper. It surprises me someone doesn't have a notebook that could do both - be a setop box/DVD player/net machine/games station and you could also pick it up (I guess it would need a dock). That hasn't happened yet though.

For me setop boxes are simply very cheap computers running a free OS (usually Unix) with some image based slots/connections like HDMI etc. and a tuner or two and a hard disk. That they cost as much as they do, seems to represent poor value IMO. But they do offer something valuable - they save time, and they add utility to watching TV.

I am not sure which way to go. I like the Panasonic tuner with the DVD burn capability - because IMO no matter how big your drive(s), if you can burn - say the grand final - then you've got it for keeps. And DVD now cost under 50 cents for a blank. Although the Panasonic has only one turner I think, and also strangely, it burns a DVD in stereo, not in 5.1. I presume if it downloads a movie from a TV station, that it looses the surround sound? Even the HD version with two tuners only records its DVDs in stereo. I guess in time that will change. But I like the speed and ability to burn a DVD of something you like. The Panasonic cost now about $580 from Dick Smith. The other model is $400 dollars more. All one gets for that is an SD slot, two tuners, both being HD (is that really a big deal?), and nothing much else. So I see something like that as being bad value. I suspect it really should cost $650. And one day it will. And I don't know if either unit can take an external HD.

Otherwise its buying a HD system. Its confusing understanding the various feature sets of everything, and then after you do, there are quality issues. Originally I thought buy a clone type but there are quality issues. Yet I know the TEAC 160 I had (have but not repaired) was built by someone else, and it was very good, even without upgrading the software.

It comes down to what one perceives as being a good purchase. Its not easy when you don't even know if HD is worth it (on my couple of years old medium HD Pioneer, the HD is not much better than the superb stand definition picture - its the sound which is better on the HD though).

Edited by MelbournePark, 10 September 2009 - 10:33 AM.

[diesel]

MelbournePark, on Sep 10 2009, 10:17 AM, said:

Its not easy when you don't even know if HD is worth it (on my couple of years old medium HD Pioneer, the HD is not much better than the superb stand definition picture - its the sound which is better on the HD though).

HD FTA still only rarely broadcasts true DD5.1 sound. Most of the time its 2.0 or similar, which isn't too different from SD broadcast.

Content wise there is little difference between the two either, but I do find OneSD's bitrate is sacrificed for OneHD and 10 Digital (which is a good thing) as is the GO! channel.

Peter's posted some good advice, my only 2c is that the twin tuner Panasonic can be had for ~$800. It seems expensive compared to the single SD tuner EX79, but really there is a fair bit more processing power required to capture 2 HD streams (possibly even transcoding one on the fly to a lower resolution if setup by the user), as well as allowing you to watch a third program (DVD or prerecorded show). It's also fairly leading edge (no other manufacturer has any on the market) so it's got the market sewn up so to speak.
You may think it's not very good value, and that's fair enough, but having twin tuners is very much a big positive IMO.

[the oh gee]

Hmm. I have two questions, probably for Peter.
Does the twin tuner situation - need a twin tuner if you want to watch channel X while recording channel Y - apply to DVDRs the same as it aplies to PVRs?
And, why does a machine require a whole other tuner so a different channel can be watched - why can't it just take the recording channel, lock that away, and you can access all the others?
Sorry if they're dumb questions but I'd rather be laughed at, and certain. It's the first question I'm really interested in.
thanks

[diesel]

Hi the oh gee and welcome to the forum.

Not Peter here, but I'll try and clarify it for you the best I can. You need twin tuners if you want to record two shows at once, or record two one shows and watch another 'live'. This is because each tuner is needed to lock onto each channel you want to watch or record. If you are thinking about the old days where you could tape something on the VCR and then watch something on the telly, then again, this is because you were using two tuners - one in your TV and one in your VCR. The same applies today, if your TV has a digital tuner, and your recorder only has 1 digital tuner, then you can also watch one show 'live' and record one show at the same time, but with many more channels on digital, and with networks no running to schedules, a twin tuner recorder is a must in my opinion.

Hope that helps

EDIT: fixed up errors

Edited by diesel, 30 March 2010 - 12:03 PM.

[prl]

diesel, on Mar 29 2010, 11:23 PM, said:

Hi the oh gee and welcome to the forum.

Not Peter here, but I'll try and clarify it for you the best I can. You need twin tuners if you want to record two shows at once, or record two shows and watch another 'live'. This is because each tuner is needed to lock onto each channel you want to watch or record. If you are thinking about the old days where you could tape something on the VCR and then watch something on the telly, then again, this is because you were using two tuners - one in your TV and one in your VCR. The same applies today, if your TV has a digital tuner, and your recorder only has 1 digital tuner, then you can also watch one show 'live' and record one show at the same time, but with many more channels on digital, and with networks no running to schedules, a twin tuner recorder is a must in my opinion.

Hope that helps

I'd find it difficult to go back to watching TV strictly live, as on a TV with built-in digital tuner. The pause/skip back functions that a PVR adds even to watching "live" is something I'd be reluctant to lose. I have a twin-tuner PVR and a single-tuner PVR feeding a wide-screen TV with an analog tuner. At the time, we made the decision because a TV with a digital HD tuner was a big step up in price from an analog tuner (we also thought that the two tuners in our original PVR would be enough ). Now, if I replaced our setup, I'd be looking for a panel without a tuner, and put any money saved into getting an additional tuner in a PVR.

Tuners belong in PVRs, not in TVs!

Edited by prl, 30 March 2010 - 08:16 AM.

[prl]

the oh gee, on Mar 29 2010, 01:11 AM, said:

Hmm. I have two questions, probably for Peter.
Does the twin tuner situation - need a twin tuner if you want to watch channel X while recording channel Y - apply to DVDRs the same as it aplies to PVRs?
And, why does a machine require a whole other tuner so a different channel can be watched - why can't it just take the recording channel, lock that away, and you can access all the others?
Sorry if they're dumb questions but I'd rather be laughed at, and certain. It's the first question I'm really interested in.
thanks

The situation with digital TV tuners is also a little more complicated than what diesel has said. In analog TV, one broadcast channel gave you one program stream. In digital TV, one broadcast channel can carry several program streams (or services or logical channels). So, for example, ABC Digita's broadcast channel carries all of ABC1, ABC2, ABC3 and ABC HD simultaneously. So if a tuner is receinving any ABC service, it's receiving them all.

That means on many (most? all?) true twin-tuner PVRs, if you are recording shows from two different broadcasters, you can watch any programs from either of the two broadcasters that you're recording. So if you record, say, ABC1 and GO!, then you can watch any of ABC1, ABC2, ABC3, ABC HD, Nine Digital, Nine HD and GO! live, but you can't, say, watch Seven Digital or SBS ONE. If you record two programs from the same broadcast channel (say ABC 1 and ABC 2), there are normally no restrictions on what other services you can watch live.

When Topfield releases the announced firmware that will allow (some of?) their HD PVRs to record up to four services from up to two broadcast channels, describing the general situation will get even more complicated

And don't be concerned about being laughed at on this one. It's something that a fair number of PVR usesrs find a bit hard to get their heads around at first. It's not helped by the fact that both broadcast channels and logical channels are often referred to simply as "channels". Even by the broadcasters themselves.

Edited by prl, 30 March 2010 - 08:29 AM.

[pgdownload]

Diesel covered it mostly.  

1) Does the twin tuner situation apply to DVDRs the same as it applies to PVRs?

Basically Yes. DVDRs can come in various forms, the most prevelant being

- a single analogue tuner (fast becoming obsolete)
- a combined SD tuner and an analogue tuner (quite popular)
- a twin HD tuner DVDR

As mentioned you can have a device with a single tuner for recording and use the TV tuner for watching if you like (same as you might have done with a VCR)

2) Why does a machine require a whole other tuner so a different channel can be watched?

Again Diesel gave a good explanation. To add a bit a tuner can only "lock" on to one frequency effectively. So if its busy tuned into (say) channel 2 then it can't also be set to receive channel 10 at the same time. Same way you can't tune your radio to FOX and MMM simultaneously.
But, these days each network broadcasts several channels and a single tuner can generally access all of these at the same time. They can do this because they send all of the channels in a single block of data at the same frequency (Called a mux). So ABC, ABC2 and ABC3 are all transmitted at once. Your recorder can then grab any or all of the channels in the mux basically simultaneously. Allowing you to record and watch different channels with a single tuner as you suggest. Two points:

- Each DVDR/PVR handles this differently and most limit you to the number of recordings you can make at the same time.

- Each network has its own mux (eg 2, 7 ,9, 10)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

NB Asking questions before you fork over the cash is what I recommend

[diesel]

prl, on Mar 30 2010, 09:29 AM, said:

The situation with digital TV tuners is also a little more complicated than what diesel has said.

I was going for the KISS principle, as there are some (TiVo springs to mind) PVRs that limit watching different channels within a mux for simplicity IIRC

[prl]

diesel, on Mar 30 2010, 01:06 PM, said:

I was going for the KISS principle, as there are some (TiVo springs to mind) PVRs that limit watching different channels within a mux for simplicity IIRC

Then I was well-advised to stick with "many/most PVRs" . IIRC, you're right about the TiVo.

[singadiva]

Hi Pete,

Newbie here - I have a TEAC HDR 2500T and need to know how I can get a recorded programme off the harddrive and onto my PC - help??

Singadiva

[pgdownload]

singadiva, on May 20 2010, 10:53 PM, said:

Hi Pete, Newbie here - I have a TEAC HDR 2500T and need to know how I can get a recorded programme off the harddrive and onto my PC - help??Singadiva

You can apparently transfer files to an external harddrive (formatted FAT32) and from there its on your PC. Might need to upgrade the firmware you have?

Quote

A software update is on Teac's website. I've downloaded it and all is well with time set and transfer from internal HD to external. The transfer method could have been in the menu option before though but I've tried it now and it works. (The manual doesn't detail how it's done but you need to go to main menu> pvr> file management. Access the file to transfer and look across bottom row of options, select the not so obvious FAV button option).

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[singadiva]

pgdownload, on May 21 2010, 08:55 AM, said:

You can apparently transfer files to an external harddrive (formatted FAT32) and from there its on your PC. Might need to upgrade the firmware you have?



Regards

Peter Gillespie

Thanks so much - unfortunately we've ended up accidently cutting out the footage we wanted but at least we're on our way to figuring it out so cheers!

Em

[Sierra64]

Hi I'm a newbie on here & what I'm hoping to do probably isn't possible. Sorry if the answer has been posted already, I've been reading for an hour through the posts & to be honest I just feel totally confused    
I already have a Humax SD STB PVR 8000T. I also have a 51" analogue TV, bought 7 years ago, but still working well. I'm on disability & can't afford to spend much, but I would like to get a HD STB so I can pick up the extra new HD channels. If I do this will it work on my TV & could I have both STBs connected to the telly & use my Humax PVR as a recorder? I've seen HD STBs that can record with an external hard drive, would that be a way to do it?
Thanks for your help!

[CarlR]

Sierra64, on Sep 23 2010, 01:10 AM, said:

I would like to get a HD STB so I can pick up the extra new HD channels. If I do this will it work on my TV

The answer is probably yes. Make sure that...
1. the HD STB has an output connection type (e.g. Composite, S-Video, Component) that your TV will accept, and
2. the HD STB has an output resolution (e.g. 576p, 720p) that the TV will accept.

What model TV is it?

Quote

...could I have both STBs connected to the telly

Yes, if your TV has at least two inputs, each of which matches the input connection type of the STBs

Quote

...use my Humax PVR as a recorder?

Not for the HD channels, as there is no way to get the signal into your Humax.

Quote

I've seen HD STBs that can record with an external hard drive, would that be a way to do it?

Yes, but...
* not all HD STBs have the ability to record to an external HDD, so you'd need to ensure you got one which does.
* you'd have to record SD channels using the PVR (as you currently do), and HD channels with the HD STB / external hard disk drive combo.
* You'd need to have the RF (antenna) cable flowing into both devices, and you'd probably want it into your TV as well, so you'd need to rig them up in series or (if the signal was too degraded by flowing through each device) you could buy an RF (antenna cable) signal splitter and/or booster.

[pgdownload]

As mentioned,

1) Yes your TV can show HD channels (The picture quality will be SD only though). Just make sure you have more than one set of input plugs in the back of it. eg AV1, AV2 etc.

2) In general a PVR can only record broadcast signals (a few expensive PVRs can record other signals but that's out of your price range) so no, you won't be able to send any shows from the HD STB to the SD PVR for recording.

3) So if you get a HD STB you'd use the TV remote to switch between inputs (the STB or the PVR) and you'd use the PVR to record and playback SD channels. You'd use the HD STB to watch live HD channels only.

4) A HD STB should cost between $50-$100. Places like ALDI also have boxes on sale fairly regularly (Check website for special buys).

5) You could get a HD STB to external drive but that starts to mount your costs. See here for drives example. ($100 should be plenty with 300-500Gb)

FWIW multiple STB / PVRs and external drives are all a bit fiddly to work with. If you can stretch to a HD PVR then I would recommend that. Not sure what your budget could be but a single tuner HD PVR like this Topfield costs $250 (Delivered). You would set up both your SD PVR and HD PVR into the TV. Set all your recordings on the HD PVR however if there was an occasional clash then you could set up a timer on the SD PVR.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Edited by pgdownload, 24 September 2010 - 01:23 PM.

[Sierra64]

Thankyou both of you, I really appreciate your help.
I can work out how to operate these things (yes I can tune them & set to record, lol), but when it comes to something a bit more complicated I don't understand exactly how it works & I needed to keep it simple
When I moved here I bought an indoor elec digital antenna that I use as well as the rooftop one to boost the signal, it works well. I should be able to work out how to set up the TV with the 2 boxes now I know it can work.
I just heard talk that elec appliances like this are going to drop in price again. If that's the case I'll put some money aside & buy a HD PVR later next year. In the meantime I'll get a cheapie HD STB & if I want to record I just won't be able to on the HD channels. Not the end of the world. Eventually I know I'll have to replace my old analogue TV, it was only a 51" Centrex cheapie, but its got clean sharp picture & good colour & I hate to get rid of something that works well.

[CarlR]

Sierra64, on Sep 23 2010, 01:10 AM, said:

I would like to get a HD STB so I can pick up the extra new HD channels.

One other thing to consider is that (depending on where you live), by not having a HD tuner, you may only be missing out on about two channels, because some of the HD channels are only showing the same shows as their SD 'sister' channels...

For example, I'm in Tasmania, and I have 13 SD stations and 5 HD stations, but 2 of the 5 HD channels are simply repeating every program from their sister SD channel. By having an HD tuner, I'm only getting three more channels: ABC24 (ABC's 24 hour news channel), 50 (Ten's sport channel), and WIN HD (which repeats many shows on WIN SD anyway).

...just a thought

[Sierra64]

Thanks Carl,
the 3rd 7 is starting up on HD too as of this week & 9 & 10 aren't far behind. I'm housebound a lot of the time & have trouble sleeping, so the telly helps stop me going crazy, anything to give me more shows to watch instead of infomercials at 2am is a good thing

[pgdownload]

Sierra64, on Sep 24 2010, 10:01 PM, said:

Thanks Carl,
the 3rd 7 is starting up on HD too as of this week & 9 & 10 aren't far behind. I'm housebound a lot of the time & have trouble sleeping, so the telly helps stop me going crazy, anything to give me more shows to watch instead of infomercials at 2am is a good thing

Check back here in a month or two. I might have another option and will PM you.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[Sierra64]

pgdownload, on Sep 24 2010, 11:20 PM, said:

Check back here in a month or two. I might have another option and will PM you.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Thanks Peter, I'll keep an eye out

[prl]

CarlR, on Sep 24 2010, 09:40 PM, said:

One other thing to consider is that (depending on where you live), by not having a HD tuner, you may only be missing out on about two channels, because some of the HD channels are only showing the same shows as their SD 'sister' channels...

For example, I'm in Tasmania, and I have 13 SD stations and 5 HD stations, but 2 of the 5 HD channels are simply repeating every program from their sister SD channel. By having an HD tuner, I'm only getting three more channels: ABC24 (ABC's 24 hour news channel), 50 (Ten's sport channel), and WIN HD (which repeats many shows on WIN SD anyway).

...just a thought

But that's about to change this weekend. From this weekend, the HD services offering different content from the "main" SD service will be ABC News24, One HD, 7mate and GEM. Only SBS HD will remain as a clone of SBS1.

[prl]

allfreakzhey, on Jun 22 2011, 02:28 PM, said:

Spammed. Extraordinarily repetitively.

And was reported.