251 replies to this topic

[mtv]

HDJOHN, on Aug 18 2010, 12:06 PM, said:

Im in Epping, Vic. Need a really good HD Indoor Antenna. Parents won't allow me to install another aerial point in my room for my USB turner.

Can anyone recommend a good HD Antenna?

Cheers

Firstly, there's no such thing as an 'HD' antenna..... Antennas can't tell what type of signal they are receiving.  

Any antenna will work for HD, SD or analogue, provided the antenna is designed for the frequencies to be received and there is sufficient signal where the antenna is used.

Difficult to say what's good and what isn't as the same antenna will perform differently in different locations.... even when moved around in the same room.

The problem with USB tuners is that they usually require a stronger, higher-quality signal than integrated tuners and STB tuners, which in most cases, requires connection to a suitable roof-mounted antenna.

Perhaps try a DSE indoor antenna, as you can obtain a refund easily if it doesn't work.

[Latinr33]

RCA flat multi directional antennas?? Are they any good.

The jb hi fi guy tends to think they are great and will provide crystal clear reception. Truth or not?

[mtv]

Latinr33, on Sep 25 2010, 02:46 PM, said:

RCA flat multi directional antennas?? Are they any good.

The jb hi fi guy tends to think they are great and will provide crystal clear reception. Truth or not?

It all depends on how good the signals are where the antenna is used.

[dig2all]

Latinr33, on Sep 25 2010, 02:46 PM, said:

RCA flat multi directional antennas?? Are they any good.

The jb hi fi guy tends to think they are great and will provide crystal clear reception. Truth or not?

the brand name makes all the difference!

i know of a professional antenna supplier who has tested every set top antenna they could find from a number of important foreign suppliers and concluded that they all work worse than a standard rabbit ears antenna set, even the active ones.

if you are desperate, buy one on sale or return.

when it fails to work you could try one of the fracarro antennas in your room because they have outstanding performance (yes better that rabbits ears) yet are small enough to fit inside.  then if mum & dad changed their minds you could install it outside - later.

[alanh]

dig2all,
Good one.
With the size of the antennas there is no way they can be half wavelength long particularly at band 3. So where is the directivity? I'll bet the amplifiers have no filters or only limit gain below 56 MHz thus picking up interference.

Pity about theory it applies in practice!

AlanH

[jeepster]

I dug out a Grundig STB and tried with Radio Shack rabbit ears (from Anglicare op shop). I recall an antenna
guy telling me that it is the same innards as a DGTEC and it needs a quality of 85 or else you get dropouts.
Now it works fine on channels 6-12, and I get signal strength of 29 and quality of 68. However, it is no good
on the UHF channels (SBS and 44). When I try this indoor antenna on the TV tuner card in my PC, it gives
unwatchable mess. So I guess the Grundig copes well with weak signals.
I can see the transmitter towers from my roof and get signal strength of over 80 with the outdoor
antenna on all channels.

[mtv]

jeepster, on Sep 26 2010, 01:08 PM, said:

I dug out a Grundig STB and tried with Radio Shack rabbit ears (from Anglicare op shop). I recall an antenna
guy telling me that it is the same innards as a DGTEC and it needs a quality of 85 or else you get dropouts.
Now it works fine on channels 6-12, and I get signal strength of 29 and quality of 68. However, it is no good
on the UHF channels (SBS and 44). When I try this indoor antenna on the TV tuner card in my PC, it gives
unwatchable mess. So I guess the Grundig copes well with weak signals.
I can see the transmitter towers from my roof and get signal strength of over 80 with the outdoor
antenna on all channels.

If you can see the transmission towers, then it's more likely to be overloading/multipath signals more than weak signal.

Apart from the extra gain and directivity, better F/B ratio etc from a roof-mounted antenna... an indoor antenna will suffer from multipath reception, with signals reflecting off internal walls, furninshings, even people.

Ever noticed signals change when someone moves around the room?

This creates ghosting on analogue channels, but increases the digital bit errors, eg: higher BER which can cause pixelation or total loss of reception.

[Rigby]

If I'm going to be viewing PC on my computer will the type of tuner I buy play any part in whether or not I'll be able to pick up channels using an indoor antenna? Is there any brands/models of tuners that I should look for?

[alanh]

Rigby,
Any tuner bought in Australia should be ok, however the antenna supplied generally do not work well. Select your viewing area Now select the first post in "Get the best reception" post. You will have to find out which transmitter you need and the antenna type. Then click on the Indoor antenna link and use that category.

AlanH

[DrP]

Rigby, on Jan 24 2011, 03:13 PM, said:

If I'm going to be viewing PC on my computer will the type of tuner I buy play any part in whether or not I'll be able to pick up channels using an indoor antenna? Is there any brands/models of tuners that I should look for?

PC tuners are not all the same.  Some, particularly those built around realtek demodulators, are particularly sensitive.  Others can be as deaf as a post.  Whatever you decide on purchasing, make sure you have the option of returning it (in good condition of course) should it not work with the signal levels you have.

My now ancient Technotrend PCI cards based around Philips chips work well with a very wide range of signal levels.  So do some DigitalNow Tiny USB2s.  A Compro U80 likes signals around 54dbuv and no more than 65dbuv.

[Rigby]

alanh, on Jan 24 2011, 05:05 PM, said:

Rigby,
Any tuner bought in Australia should be ok, however the antenna supplied generally do not work well. Select your viewing area Now select the first post in "Get the best reception" post. You will have to find out which transmitter you need and the antenna type. Then click on the Indoor antenna link and use that category.

AlanH

Thanks, it seems like my transmitter is located in Mt Cootha, Brisbane which is a H34 transmitter. Maybe I'm not reading the indoor antenna post properly but I couldn't find any indoor antennas recommended specifically for the H34 transmitter. Am I right to just use the recommended Jaycar model listed in this thread?

DrP, on Jan 24 2011, 06:37 PM, said:

PC tuners are not all the same.  Some, particularly those built around realtek demodulators, are particularly sensitive.  Others can be as deaf as a post.  Whatever you decide on purchasing, make sure you have the option of returning it (in good condition of course) should it not work with the signal levels you have.

My now ancient Technotrend PCI cards based around Philips chips work well with a very wide range of signal levels.  So do some DigitalNow Tiny USB2s.  A Compro U80 likes signals around 54dbuv and no more than 65dbuv.

Ah, thanks. I've heard some good stories about the Leadtek DVT range, specifically the DVT1000S model. I was thinking about getting the DVT2000H+ just because it's able to pick up both analogue and digital so that if I don't have adequate reception for digital I can always fall back to analogue but the DVT1000S is cheap enough that I might just pick it up and try it. Any thoughs?

[DrP]

I have no experience with those, but if you dig around in this section you may find the answer.

[Rigby]

DrP, on Jan 24 2011, 06:56 PM, said:

I have no experience with those, but if you dig around in this section you may find the answer.

Just another question: will the Jaycar antenna (this one) listed in the first post work to receive an analogue signal or does it only pick up digital?

[mtv]

Rigby, on Jan 29 2011, 09:20 AM, said:

Just another question: will the Jaycar antenna (this one) listed in the first post work to receive an analogue signal or does it only pick up digital?

In simple terms, yes, the antenna in your link is suitable for both analogue and digital.

All antennas can't tell the difference between digital and analogue signals, so if the antenna is designed for the frequencies available, it will work, providing there is sufficient signal strength.

For digital, there must also be sufficient signal quality.

[Rigby]

mtv, on Jan 29 2011, 12:02 PM, said:

In simple terms, yes, the antenna in your link is suitable for both analogue and digital.

All antennas can't tell the difference between digital and analogue signals, so if the antenna is designed for the frequencies available, it will work, providing there is sufficient signal strength.

For digital, there must also be sufficient signal quality.

Thanks! The plan now is to buy a hybrid tuner that can do both analogue and digital in case I don't have enough signal strength to receive digital. Planning on getting the PxDTV2300H and the Jaycar antenna, hopefully they'll work well!

[mtv]

Rigby, on Jan 31 2011, 09:36 AM, said:

Thanks! The plan now is to buy a hybrid tuner that can do both analogue and digital in case I don't have enough signal strength to receive digital. Planning on getting the PxDTV2300H and the Jaycar antenna, hopefully they'll work well!

Depending where you are located, analogue may already be, or about to be switched off, so you really need to concentrate on obtaining reliable digital reception.... which is best received with a roof-mounted antenna suitable for the digital channels in your area.

[alanh]

Rigby,
You will find this antenna as one of the pair I recommended in the first post. It is recommended because it has some directivity in the UHF band, however none of the antennas containing rabbits ears are any different. This antenna includes an amplifier though.

Read the recommendations in the first post. It is recommended however that you go to the Geographic Viewers' forum for your area and read the "Get the best reception" post. The transmitter link will recommend the antenna band and polarisation  which will be required in the first post of this strand.

AlanH

[ALMOST610]

Could someone tell me what would be a better Antenna, $15 Rabit Ears or a 30dBi Ebay Antenna, I live on Boarderline Metro/Regional Victoria, I currently get Metro Signs from Mt D Transmitter but just would like to know whats better to get.

Could someone please also explain the dBi receiver in relation to standard Rabbit Ears.


Please Refer to my Topic Instead.

Edited by ALMOST610, 08 June 2011 - 10:25 PM.

[miata]

Hopefully this might help a few people.
I live in a high rise on the beach at Surfers. My bedroom has no aerial socket and I rely mostly on my Fox Box, which  is wired to the bedroom. As part of my setup, I also have a Toppy (see below) which has been connected to an indoor aerial, just a Rabbit Ears with a rotary selector switch, marked U V. Channels 10 & 7 and their related streams, were giving me a signal strength of 70 and a constant 98 - 99% quality. ABC and SBS were usually 50 and around 95% but fluctuated, while 9 was all over the place.
I bit the bullet a couple of days ago and bought a Dick Smith L  4016 powered areial with adjustable gain. I now have a constant 72+ and 99% Quality on ALL channels and can safely set timers on any channel knowing that it will record on the Topfield, not something I've been able to do in the 15 months I've been here.

I could, with the non-powered aerial, get higher strength indications for ABC and SBS by moving the device but that would screw up the other channels, the problem being reflections (I'm assuming) from adjacent buildings. I have the new one pointed roughly in the direction of the transmitter and with full gain, I have exactly the result I was looking for and pretty much  the same strength and quality on all 5 FTA streams.

$49 well spent IMO.

[alanh]

Read the first post in this strand.

AlanH

[Pfeff]

Thanks AlanH for all the very useful information you've put in this and other related threads. It gave me a much better understanding of how antennas work and how to tune mine. I thought my own experience with finding a working indoor antenna might be of use to those who find this thread. I am located on the Gold Coast 20km from Mt Tamborine with reasonable line of sight.

I don't watch a lot of FTA broadcasts and in the master bedroom I use a MyWirelessTV to share one of our IQ2 boxes because the location of our TV was not able to drop either a Foxtel or antenna point to. So an indoor antenna was my only option to get FTA channels directly. I tried and returned a couple of One For All models including a high priced supposedly "top end" one which didn't find a single digital channel.

After reading a similar thread over on Whirlpool, I gave the often recommended Crest LS2000 a try. It actually was okay but far from perfect. Using AlanH's setup advice I got the best I could get with it and better than the old rabbit ears I had from my old house which would not even pull a single channel. The LS2000 has a 32dB amplifier and by chance I came across another Crest model, the PCA400 which looked similar but has a 42dB amp with variable power knob at my local Good Guys. Salesman was willing to sell on work or return basis. It works really well standing horizontally even without the need to extend the telescopic rods at all which I just leave parallel behind the antenna housing. A much nicer looking solution than any rabbit ears type too.

I think both the Crest LS2000 and PCA400 are worth a look costing $35 and $89 respectively.

[alanh]

Pfeff,
You do not need to use the rabbits ears because all of the transmissions from Mt Tambourine are in the UHF band. The rods are for VHF which are used in Brisbane.
You did not try any of my recommendations?

AlanH

[James T Kirk]

Note to any reader.

I notice that AlanH has started waffling on about things he likes to call a H34 as against a V34 or a H3 or a V3. The net result of this latest AlanH foolishness is that a poster earlier has taken this and has discussed a H34 transmitter which of course is ludicrous, hence the dangers of anyone taking AlanH seriously.

If you are going to engage some help from someone who sells or installs antennas I would strongly recommend you forget the H and V stuff. Tell them where you are and if you know where your TV signals come from.

Remember, AlanH is a master poster not a master of the subject matter.

James

[alanh]

James,

I challenge you to rotate the transmitting antenna from horizontal to vertical and then explain it to all those who cannot receive the signal anymore!

Firstly explain it to your boss as to why you want to do this, and its effect on the viewers of the nearest vertically polarised transmitter on the same channel.

AlanH

Edited by alanh, 05 May 2012 - 10:35 PM.

[James T Kirk]

alanh, on 05 May 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

James,

I challenge you to rotate the transmitting antenna from horizontal to vertical and then explain it to all those who cannot receive the signal anymore!

Firstly explain it to your boss as to why you want to do this, and its effect on the viewers of the nearest vertically polarised transmitter on the same channel.

AlanH

Only you could come up with such a stupid response, It does underline why you should not be advising those seeking assistance.
The second has been explained to you repeatedly, have you considered gardening or crosswords or just about anything else?