187 replies to this topic

[max gain]

Snip

'Munich' date='May 2 2006, 09:59 AM'

Agreed, I also believe it must be an issue with the Wintal unit.   

EndSnip

........does this "Ch7" fault also occur on the ......digicrystal Pvr....

.........I've got a winny & I  have also have seen this fault in Bris.....

.......... people are asking my advice on a pvr purchase so should they be looking at the digicrystal



.........Thanx in advance................... M.G. ........................

[bresmith]

I've got a digicrystal in melbourne, record seven a lot for over a year and never had one lockup.  Doesn't speak for everyone but have only ever heard of wintals locking up.

Brent:)

[max gain]

bresmith, on May 3 2006, 01:55 PM, said:

I've got a digicrystal in melbourne, record seven a lot for over a year and never had one lockup.  Doesn't speak for everyone but have only ever heard of wintals locking up.

Brent:)

.....Thanx for the info Brent

.................. M.G. ..................

[Franz]

Since the middle of last year I have experienced many audio/picture break-ups during the playback of shows recorded from channel 7.
I have never seen any faults when directly watching channel 7 with my wintal unit, it only happened during playback and only on channel 7
(No problems at all with other channels and my reception is very good)

I own the older PVR-X10 unit and have first upgraded the firmware (from Wintal Website) but this had no impact on this issue.
I have also tried different versions of the GROBI firmware including the latest (German only) version 3.42 without success.
I have tried GRGuys hacked version and this did not help either.
Two weeks ago I have swapped the Hard drive with a 200 GB Western Digital Hard drive and since then I have not experienced anymore break-ups.
However the unit locked up / crashed two times exactly the same way as already described by some forum users. (Again only when recording channel 7)
Since GRGuys firmware (as wall as all recent GROBI versions) allows to display the Bit rate of channels I have recorded this in the table below:

I have done this in two different locations in regional Victoria (Moe and Halls Gap)

Moe, 18 April  
         19:15     20:20     21.25
                         Mbits/s   Mbits/s   Mbits/s
2   ABC TV Victoria        6.0       6.0       6.0
3   SBS Digital 1          5.0       5.5       5.0
5   SC10 Gippsland         6.0       6.0       6.0
6   PRIME Traralgon (7)    7.0       7.5       7.0
7   7 Digital              6.0       6.0       6.0 (Melbourne)
8   Latrobe Valley (9 WIN) 7.0       7.0       7.0
21  ABC2                   4.5       4.5       4.5


Halls Gap, 11 May
                10:30    12:00
                          Mbits/s  Mbits/s
2   ABC TV Victoria        6.0      6.0
3   SBS Digital 1          4.5      4.5
5   SC10 Ballarat          6.0      6.0
6   PRIME Ballarat (7)     7.0      7.5
8   Western Vic (9 WIN)    7.0      7.0
21  ABC2                   6.0      4.5

My personal theory is:

The old Wintal Unit PVR-X10 has some issues with recording Bit rates above 7 Mbits/s producing audio/picture break-ups during recording.
Installing a different Hard drive will resolve this issue but may introduce lock ups / crashes when recording at 7.5 Mbits/s.

Does the PVR-X10A behave this way out of the box?
Why is Channel 7 broadcasting at different bit rates within Victoria?
Was this a result of Melbourne's users complaining to Channel seven?
Can anyone confirm the Bit rate values of Channel Seven in other locations?

[PEEBS]

Franz, on May 11 2006, 12:56 PM, said:

My personal theory is:

The old Wintal Unit PVR-X10 has some issues with recording Bit rates above 7 Mbits/s producing audio/picture break-ups during recording.
Installing a different Hard drive will resolve this issue but may introduce lock ups / crashes when recording at 7.5 Mbits/s.

How does this fit with the fact that every time a recording locks up it is at the 58 second mark. Also I believe Ch9 and 10 broadcast at a highet bit rate than 7 (this is referenced in 100s of posts on this forum) so why do they not lock up.

[Franz]

I do not know how this fits in with the 58 seconds mark.

Regarding your bit rate comment: This might currently be the case for Melbourne but in regional Victoria (I have checked this many times) no other channel broadcasts at 7.5 Mbits/s in Standard Definition.

What are your Bitrate Values?

[angelrose]

Franz, on May 11 2006, 12:56 PM, said:

Since the middle of last year I have experienced many audio/picture break-ups during the playback of shows recorded from channel 7.
I have never seen any faults when directly watching channel 7 with my wintal unit, it only happened during playback and only on channel 7
(No problems at all with other channels and my reception is very good)

I think you are referring to a different problem.  The channel 7 bug this thread is talking about is when the PVR locks up while recording, does not respond to the remote at all, and has to be turned off at the wall before the unit will respond.  The ?? min 58 sec mark is noticed as the lock-up point when the recording is started using a timer.

To those people severely affected by this problem and unable to use chase play, I have found that not only chase play stops this freezing, but also playing any other recording.  I was wondering if a previous recording was started playing then paused when leaving the PVR, if this would also prevent the freeze.  (The pause is so that it will continue in play mode indefinitely.)

PS:  I can't get bitrates because I am using the digicrystal 23/2/06 firmware, which has a couple of problems but is much better than other versions due to the ability to access the timer while recording.

[Franz]

With the original Harddrive in place I suffered picture/audio breakups.
With the new 200 GB Harddrive the unit locked up twice in 6 weeks (not very frequent).
(I had to turn the power off, the recording stopped at 58 seconds...)

Both symptoms only occur with channel seven, in my opinion the problem might be related.

[Neon Kitten]

Okay, this one's interesting.

I had the "channel 7 bug" hit me just before while the Wintal was doing a timer recording. Only one thing that's unusual...

I was recording "Top Gear" - on SBS.

Unlike the times this has happened on channel Seven, here the on-screen image had frozen and the unit was locked up (with the times this has happened on Seven the unit was locked up but still displayed a moving TV picture with audio)

The recording time it happened at was 12.58 - so there's definitely something to this 58-second thing.

[Cookster670]

i'm another one with this problem.  it used to be very occassionally, then about 2 months ago i upgraded to 3.41 and now it happens quite often.  It only just clicked (after reading this thread) that it was only Channel 7 that it happens to.   Someone posted that Seven just upgraded their system so maybe the f/w upgrade was a coincedence

[Thirsty]

I have an X10A with 3.41 2005-08-11 firmware (the way it came in the box).  I have only had it for about 4 weeks and it has only locked up on me the once but I am in Sydney.  This was a timer recording on Ch7 and it stopped at 2:16:58.

I wanted to upgrade the firmware to give me weekly timers but on reading around I was concerned that this will make the freezing problem worse.  What are peoples experience with different firmware versions?

If we find a version in which this problem is the worst, maybe we have a better chance of getting someone to have a look at it?  What versions are people using?

[bresmith]

Thirsty, on May 18 2006, 07:56 AM, said:

I wanted to upgrade the firmware to give me weekly timers

You should already have weekly timers.  All firmware versions have had weekly timers.

[Cookster670]

has anyone noticed that it's getting worse ?  I used to have the odd lockup, but now it's almost every time I record channel 7 it will lock up.  most of the time it's at the 58second mark, but not always.  (it's also done it at 15 and 00)

i'm on 3.41b

[bresmith]

Has everyone reported this to Wintal/RPG so that something is done about it.  It seems to me to be a wintal hardware problem as the digicrystal and supernets arent suffering (thankfully) even with the same firmware.  If enough people complain surely they will have to do something to fix it.

Brent:)

[PEEBS]

bresmith, on May 18 2006, 03:31 PM, said:

Has everyone reported this to Wintal/RPG so that something is done about it.  It seems to me to be a wintal hardware problem as the digicrystal and supernets arent suffering (thankfully) even with the same firmware.  If enough people complain surely they will have to do something to fix it.

Brent:)

I believe this has been reported to both RPG and Ch 7 with each blaming the other for the problem. All my locks have been at the 58 sec mark so I blame Ch7 however Wintal should have error handling for this. This does not seem to happen on the other digenius based PVR's so it must be a specific piece of harware that the Wintal has that can't handle the error. The fact that this never happens if you are playing a recorded show or doing chase play whilst recording also points to some sort of hardware fault.

All in all it is very frustrating as 7 have heaps of good shows on late at night that I like to record

[Frosty77]

Can someone post the email address of Channel 7 and/or Wintal so we can flood them with enough complaints to do something about it?

If my recording of Fawlty Towers screws up again I will be f@#%ing furious.

[boric]

Frosty77, on May 18 2006, 04:25 PM, said:

Can someone post the email address of Channel 7 and/or Wintal so we can flood them with enough complaints to do something about it?

Don't bother with email. Ring them (RPG in particular). Explain to RPG that our wintal is still under warranty and you would like it fixed so it does what they said it would do - record television.

[PEEBS]

Frosty77, on May 18 2006, 04:25 PM, said:

Can someone post the email address of Channel 7 and/or Wintal so we can flood them with enough complaints to do something about it?

If my recording of Fawlty Towers screws up again I will be f@#%ing furious.

Channel Seven do not appear to have a general e-mail and suggest phone or fax

Channel Seven Melbourne
GPO Box 4477
MELBOURNE VICTORIA 3001
Fax: (03) 9697 7676


Wintal only seem to have a sales e-mail address


sales@wintal.com.au

I guess if we all lodge complaints eventually someone will have to react

[johfac]

bresmith, on May 18 2006, 03:31 PM, said:

Has everyone reported this to Wintal/RPG so that something is done about it.  It seems to me to be a wintal hardware problem as the digicrystal and supernets arent suffering (thankfully) even with the same firmware.  If enough people complain surely they will have to do something to fix it.

Brent:)

It's not just a Wintel problem Supernet have the same trouble the problem is with channel 7.

[h45e]

I have had a supernet and now a wintel (with the hdd firmware hack) and this has never happened to me (ive upgraded the hdd to a 120gig aswell).

[Cookster670]

h45e, on May 18 2006, 06:11 PM, said:

I have had a supernet and now a wintel (with the hdd firmware hack) and this has never happened to me (ive upgraded the hdd to a 120gig aswell).

What is the hdd firmware hack ?  can you provide a link.

Did you get the problem before the hack or have you never had it ever.

[h45e]

Never had it ever, have a search for the hdd firmware hack.. its here.

Mine is a x10a

[Neon Kitten]

PEEBS, on May 18 2006, 04:56 PM, said:

Channel Seven do not appear to have a general e-mail and suggest phone or fax

I'd suggest phone - if you ask to speak to someone at Seven Melbourne about a technical issue with digital TV you should get put through to a very informed and helpful guy who's very interested in any transmission problems. Both Seven and Ten in Melbourne have been brilliant for me when it comes to calling them about their digital service.

johfac, on May 18 2006, 05:10 PM, said:

It's not just a Wintel problem Supernet have the same trouble the problem is with channel 7.

It's something Seven is transmitting that's causing something in the Digenius firmware - ALL revisions - to crash. It's hard to reproduce and seems to be quite random from PVR to PVR; I haven't had a lock-up on Seven for weeks now, but others have with the same shows.

However, I agree, it's almost definitely not a Wintal-specific hardware issue. Remember these boxes are all built to reference designs.

[Thirsty]

bresmith, on May 18 2006, 09:24 AM, said:

You should already have weekly timers.  All firmware versions have had weekly timers.

Thanks for that.  I needed to read the book a little more carefully.

I have only had the one lock up but it seems to me that it was at the end of an ad break and they were just about to come back to the show.  I know that at this time the main broadcaster transmits some signals so that the regional stations get back in sync from their ad breaks.  Has anyone else noticed this or do you get lockups in the middle of the shows?

[Neon Kitten]

Thirsty, on May 19 2006, 09:20 AM, said:

I have only had the one lock up but it seems to me that it was at the end of an ad break and they were just about to come back to the show.  I know that at this time the main broadcaster transmits some signals so that the regional stations get back in sync from their ad breaks.  Has anyone else noticed this or do you get lockups in the middle of the shows?

For me, always in the middle of shows.